State Of Emergency Announced In Bangkok

[h90]

Puea Pandin disagrees with the SoE. I wonder how far this disagreement will go.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingne...newsid=30082429

Puppet-master must call them and transfer some cash....

[animatic]

The boys at the back don't seem to approve of the camera.

Or equally possible somebody else wading into the fight.

We can't see who is behind the camera either.

And what is in the HAND of the guy on the ground

seems purposely cropped out...

Likely as not propaganda from either side.

[h90]

I think that we will see the DAAD heading back to government house tonight.

Samak will surely not be happy that now even the Army are refusing to use force, and so he will likely want to despatch the DAAD to cause a bit of bovver.

Hopefully I am wrong.

Lets see what army is doing....DAAD against army, maybe?

[blaze]

First night of emergency state passes with no violent incident for PAD

The People's Alliance for Democracy continued its demonstration in the Government House throughout the night without any violent incident.

But rumours spread throughout the night that either pro-government protesters or security officials would raid the Government House to evict PAD demonstrators.

When the morning came, the tension apparently eased and many protesters left the rally site while many others had breakfast provided by the PAD.

Source: The Nation - 03 September 2008

It's positive note that there was no repeat of this....

...and in this topsy turvy world, if we can't depend on four photographs posted by one of the only non-partisan members of this forum- what can we depend on?

I agree!

Think People...the above are pictures of DAAD, the PPP sponsored (and paid for) group that violently attacked the peaceful PAD protest at Government House. How can anyone still claim that the PPP are the good guys????

.... and if we can't depend on four pictures posted by one of the only really non-parisan members of this forum to give us a clear understanding of the conflict- what can we depend on?

While it's true, I am not from Paris...

I and everyone posting here is voicing their opinion.. you have yours and I have mine.

As stated earlier, anyone is free to post opposing views, be they text or photographic.

I guess in Paris they'd say- Touche John.

[hammered]

Puea Pandin disagrees with the SoE. I wonder how far this disagreement will go.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingne...newsid=30082429

Dont forget the budget approval isnt far off and nobody on the government side will want to miss out on that.

Opposition to the SoE seems to be coming fom many sides, and the way it was introduced with government MPs at Sanam Luang and at the battle front giving cover for a quick SoE introduction is becoming clearer. Someone close to Samak has been intimated although it seems names are not going to be given in public.

A real left field end to this would be for the court to find the SoE unjustified in the legal appeal before it. That would force a resignation without taking out more than Samak. Unlikely in my opinion but somewhere there has to be a standdown at least temporarily. One report has Anupong as saying when the administrative and judicial elements have failed to find a solution it is up to the legislature to fond one. Lots could be read into that, which comes back to your question. Would they really do it and abandon the money in the budget?

[Thai at Heart]

"PAD Peace Feeler

Bangkok Post

Mr Sondhi said the government must promise not to amend the charter in its favour; to observe the Constitution Court's order regarding Preah Vihear temple; to suspend all mega-projects; and to commit to political reforms and increased public participation in politics.

Mr Sondhi said the four-point demand was strictly his own proposal, not the PAD's. He had yet to put the matter to other core members.

"They must accept the four-point demand - and only if the prime minister is either Somchai Wongsawat or Surapong Suebwonglee," said Mr Sondhi."

This guy has gotten far too big for his boots; with his unilateral demands. Someone should remind him that he's not the Head of State.

A dissolution of parliament could be a very dangerous choice, as would anything that causes a power vacuum. None of us know where the big boots are planning on going next. Anything that would give Sondhi a victory is looking more dangerous by the minute. Sondhi is a sideshow, albeit a very egotistical one. What exactly he wants or aspires to isn't yet clear. No replies of overthrowing the govt, please. Try some thinking outside the box for a change.

Well Sondhi tells it day and night what he wants....Getting rid of corruption and corrupt politician.

And you believe that? How many politicians do you know?

Politicians (and rabble rousers) often have strategy meetings and one of the topics will be what means to achieve the ends. This is where the word expediency comes in (politicians don't like to think they tell lies). Saying they want to get rid of the corruption /govt. etc is going to be the one of the quickest ways to achieve their ends (not too sure what they are at the moment).

Totally fascinating and rather scary that some people take everything at face value.

Maybe some people do believe the real estate adverts after all!

Sondhi is neither a politican nor does he want to get any job in government. Chamlong has proofed over decades that he is not corrupt.

so no evidence that they want something. While on the government side it is complete clear as they were corrupt in the past.

I think by any definition of the word, he is without doubt a politician. Just because one doesn't want to enter a political party, does not prevent one from being defined as a politician.

That is precisely why what he is doing has to be handled so very delicately, because if it isn't it could plunge the whole country into chaos for a very long time.

[Journalist]

Sondhi is neither a politican nor does he want to get any job in government. Chamlong has proofed over decades that he is not corrupt.

so no evidence that they want something. While on the government side it is complete clear as they were corrupt in the past.

Sondhi doesn't want to repay his debts to Krungthai Bank.

Thaksin broke his promise to get the non-performing loans written off.

Thats the origins of their personal hatred. Not because Sondhi didn't approve of Thaksin's lifetime of dodgy dealing, nor is he is himself a fair player.

Sondhi didn't get his snout into the sleaze trough, and he didn't like being left out.

[sjaak327]

This morning in the Post

PAD peace feeler?

By Post Reporters

People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) core member Sondhi Limthongkul on Tuesday showed the first signs of a compromise to end the political stand-off following a fatal clash between protesters and the declaration of a state of emergency.

The possibility of a solution came after army chief Gen Anupong Paojinda, who heads the committee to enforcing the emergency decree, refused to take tough measures to disperse PAD demonstrators from Government House. He also called for conciliation.

In an exclusive interview with the Bangkok Post Mr Sondhi said he was contemplating a four-point compromise as the political situation appeared at a dead end.

But he stressed that the proposal would be viable only after Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej stepped down from office -- the core objective of the PAD's rally.

Mr Sondhi said the government must promise not to amend the charter in its favour; to observe the Constitution Court's order regarding Preah Vihear temple; to suspend all mega-projects; and to commit to political reforms and increased public participation in politics.

Mr Sondhi said the four-point demand was strictly his own proposal, not the PAD's. He had yet to put the matter to other core members.

"They must accept the four-point demand _ and only if the prime minister is either Somchai Wongsawat or Surapong Suebwonglee," said Mr Sondhi.

He predicted the emergency decree would backfire on Mr Samak, as although the army chief has been given control over Bangkok he is unwilling to wield the power.

He expected Mr Samak would resign in the next few days.

At Government House, the PAD rally continued in defiance of the state of emergency, prompted by the clash early Tuesday which left one dead and 43 others injured.

The dead man was identified as UDD member Narongsak Krobthaisong, 55, the Narenthorn Emergency Response Centre said.

Gen Anupong told a press conference after a meeting between senior military and police officers that officials would not exercise the powers granted by the emergency decree to end the PAD demonstration.

"Negotiations will be used in ending the problem, not simply the force of law," he said.

His committee's objective was only to keep the pro-and anti-government sides apart. The political stand-off could still be solved through negotiations.

"If the people are united, the army is one with the people. When the people are divided, there is no place for the army. The army has to find an acceptable way out for the divided camps, and without any losses."

He said unarmed military and police personnel would maintain law and order.

"Only legal and democratic means should be used to solve the stand-off. Legislative branch or parliament should be responsible to end this problem," he said.

Mr Samak defended his declaration of a state of emergency, saying he carefully consulted all parties concerned for two hours before announcing his decision.

The decree would not be enforced for a long period,he said, but gave no indication when it would be lifted.

Mr Samak said he considered the decree to be the best and most gentle measure to restore law and order, even though it could cause some trouble for people.

"I do this to douse the fire. When it is done, everything will return to normal. People went about their business as usual until [the Tuesday morning] incident. I had to use the instruments at my disposal. It will only be enforced for a short while," Mr Samak said.

The declaration of the state of emergency has triggered new calls for Mr Samak to resign.

Academics, media outlets and civil groups issued statements, calling on the premier to quit.

However, a group of Thammasat University lecturers broke ranks and demanded a House dissoluhtion instead.

PAD member Somkiat Pongpaiboon, speaking from the group's main stage, told thousands of demonstrators the alliance would only enter into negotiations after Mr Samak resigned.

The alliance would not negotiate with Gen Anupong or any other individual or group appointed by the government.

PAD lawyers Nitipon Lamlua and Suwat Apaipak on Tuesday lodged a petition with the Supreme Administrative Court against the state of emergency order and seeking its temporary suspension until a ruling is given.

They also urged the Supreme Administrative Court to refer the petition to the Constitution Court for a ruling if the matter is outside its jurisdiction.

The move is echoed by a group of senators led by Somchai Sawaengkarn. Mr Somchai said the decree was not justified. Police did too little to prevent the violence between anti-and pro-government demonstrators.

"Since the decree is not justified, the decree therefore tramples on civil liberties and is unconstitutional," he said.

They disagreed with the the argument an executive decree does not lie within the jurisdiction of the Administrative Court. The senators believe the government is exercising administrative power through the imposition of the state of emergency.

So now the deals appear to be on the table, and thank heavens the idea of removing the entire government by mob rule is possibly/hopefully off the table.

"Mr Sondhi said the government must promise not to amend the charter in its favour; to observe the Constitution Court's order regarding Preah Vihear temple; to suspend all mega-projects; and to commit to political reforms and increased public participation in politics."

"They must accept the four-point demand _ and only if the prime minister is either Somchai Wongsawat or Surapong Suebwonglee," said Mr Sondhi.

Hmmm, Phreah Vihear rears it's ugly head again. Where is Noppadope anyway? Could take a while (like 60 odd years) to "commit to political reforms" and I would love to know exactly what he means the increased public participation in politics. We have just had his version of that for 8 days of that and it has brought the country to a standstill

The demands left me puzzeled. What is going on I wonder. PAD is lowering their demands and intentions or so it seems. The question remains why.

Is the money running out, I mean the security force alone must cost them a good deal of money. Is the inactivity of the army a consideration. Did he struck a deal with either of the two persons mentioned above.

I guess if this would be the compromise, we will get the same thing all over again the minute anyone of the government makes a mistake, or whenever the vote buying courtcase is decided against PPP.

Edited September 3, 2008 by sjaak327

[kurtgruen]

[Qoute]

Anyone care to hazard a guess as to whether the PAD would leave GH if Samak resigned. Not many guarantees are there?

I would guess that if Samak resigned and the rest of the PPP coalition would promise not to amend the constitution and to go with whatever the courts decide, that in such a case Sondhi and his PAD Rally would agree to leave the Government Grounds and move their gathering to a neutral location.

I'm saying this, because if they totally stopped demonstrating, the People in the North would never hear their side. As it is, here in Chiang Dao, the average Thai, with no ADSL and no ASTV satelite (which is most of them), only hears the Government Propaganda on NBT. I believe that there needs to be free press and that Sondhi's voice should be heard Nationwide again, not just slandering remarks against him and the odd little clip of the demonstrations.

My wife says that coverage of what is happening is quite pathetic up here in the North.

So to sum it up... I think it would be foolish for the PAD to stop their (so far) successful campaign to get rid of Samak and the PPP Coalition. Samak needs to go. He has moved past the point of return. The PPP coalition needs to agree not to ament the Charter (Which they have no right to anyways, without a referendum of the people) and to live with the courts decisions, whatever they may be.

In return, labor actions should stop and the PAD should move to a neutral ground to hold their peaceful demonstrations. Also to stop occupying the airports.

I think that would be an excellent start to difuse the situation

[h90]

Sondhi is neither a politican nor does he want to get any job in government. Chamlong has proofed over decades that he is not corrupt.

so no evidence that they want something. While on the government side it is complete clear as they were corrupt in the past.

Sondhi doesn't want to repay his debts to Krungthai Bank.

Thaksin broke his promise to get the non-performing loans written off.

Thats the origins of their personal hatred. Not because Sondhi didn't approve of Thaksin's lifetime of dodgy dealing, nor is he is himself a fair player.

Sondhi didn't get his snout into the sleaze trough, and he didn't like being left out.

Sondhi never made any secret of his financial problems. Everything else is speculation.

No evidence of any corruption. And you don't think that if that would be true, Thaksin wouldn't have gave him that few bucks to close Sondhis mouth.

If Sondhi is like you tell, he would happily taken the money. So it seems that is not the reason.

As well he always denied to take any position in any government.

[sriracha john]

I think that we will see the DAAD heading back to government house tonight.

Samak will surely not be happy that now even the Army are refusing to use force, and so he will likely want to despatch the DAAD to cause a bit of bovver.

Hopefully I am wrong.

Lets see what army is doing....DAAD against army, maybe?

While the Army is a taller order, the DAAD doesn't seem to mind taking on all comers....

whether it's the police in 2007...

July 22, 2007

Korat Post

or the PAD in 2008...

A government supporter throws rocks at anti-government demonstrators after the two sides clashed several blocks from the Government House in Bangkok early morning on September 2, 2008. At least one person was killed and 34 hurt, four critically, in clashes on Tuesday between pro- and anti-government demonstrators in Bangkok, a Thai health ministry official said.

REUTERS

[eastwest]

"PAD Peace Feeler

Bangkok Post

Mr Sondhi said the government must promise not to amend the charter in its favour; to observe the Constitution Court's order regarding Preah Vihear temple; to suspend all mega-projects; and to commit to political reforms and increased public participation in politics.

Mr Sondhi said the four-point demand was strictly his own proposal, not the PAD's. He had yet to put the matter to other core members.

"They must accept the four-point demand - and only if the prime minister is either Somchai Wongsawat or Surapong Suebwonglee," said Mr Sondhi."

This guy has gotten far too big for his boots; with his unilateral demands. Someone should remind him that he's not the Head of State.

If because of the protests, Samak resigns and Parliament is dissolved, Sondhi and Chamlong might proclaim that they intend to form a government.

[Journalist]

I believe that there needs to be free press and that Sondhi's voice should be heard Nationwide again, not just slandering remarks against him and the odd little clip of the demonstrations.

Thailand does have both a free press and freedom of speech.

Thats why folk can call online for the downfall of the government without fear of having a knock on the door from the Secret Police in the early hours.

.

Edited September 3, 2008 by Journalist

[dezeure]

Not good news at all

I wonder how it will all end?

But now there has been a death...things could get real ugly I reckon...I hope I am wrong

Very simple. Few more days or weeks and we have a new Coup D'Etat. I predicted this exactly what is happening now about 6 months ago.

Oh and the fact that the elections were frauded doesn't really help him neither... :D:D

[kurtgruen]

I believe that there needs to be free press and that Sondhi's voice should be heard Nationwide again, not just slandering remarks against him and the odd little clip of the demonstrations.

Thailand does have both a free press and freedom of speech.

Thats why folk can call online for the downfall of the government without fear of having a knock on the door from the Secret Police in the early hours.

.

Maybe not the "secret police", but that leaves a lot of other parties to fear, if you openly express yourself about things the government doesn't want you to talk about. I think you have no idea how scared a lot of Thai People are to express themselves openly and honestly.

[hammered]

This morning in the Post

PAD peace feeler?

By Post Reporters

People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) core member Sondhi Limthongkul on Tuesday showed the first signs of a compromise to end the political stand-off following a fatal clash between protesters and the declaration of a state of emergency.

The possibility of a solution came after army chief Gen Anupong Paojinda, who heads the committee to enforcing the emergency decree, refused to take tough measures to disperse PAD demonstrators from Government House. He also called for conciliation.

In an exclusive interview with the Bangkok Post Mr Sondhi said he was contemplating a four-point compromise as the political situation appeared at a dead end.

But he stressed that the proposal would be viable only after Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej stepped down from office -- the core objective of the PAD's rally.

Mr Sondhi said the government must promise not to amend the charter in its favour; to observe the Constitution Court's order regarding Preah Vihear temple; to suspend all mega-projects; and to commit to political reforms and increased public participation in politics.

Mr Sondhi said the four-point demand was strictly his own proposal, not the PAD's. He had yet to put the matter to other core members.

"They must accept the four-point demand _ and only if the prime minister is either Somchai Wongsawat or Surapong Suebwonglee," said Mr Sondhi.

He predicted the emergency decree would backfire on Mr Samak, as although the army chief has been given control over Bangkok he is unwilling to wield the power.

He expected Mr Samak would resign in the next few days.

At Government House, the PAD rally continued in defiance of the state of emergency, prompted by the clash early Tuesday which left one dead and 43 others injured.

The dead man was identified as UDD member Narongsak Krobthaisong, 55, the Narenthorn Emergency Response Centre said.

Gen Anupong told a press conference after a meeting between senior military and police officers that officials would not exercise the powers granted by the emergency decree to end the PAD demonstration.

"Negotiations will be used in ending the problem, not simply the force of law," he said.

His committee's objective was only to keep the pro-and anti-government sides apart. The political stand-off could still be solved through negotiations.

"If the people are united, the army is one with the people. When the people are divided, there is no place for the army. The army has to find an acceptable way out for the divided camps, and without any losses."

He said unarmed military and police personnel would maintain law and order.

"Only legal and democratic means should be used to solve the stand-off. Legislative branch or parliament should be responsible to end this problem," he said.

Mr Samak defended his declaration of a state of emergency, saying he carefully consulted all parties concerned for two hours before announcing his decision.

The decree would not be enforced for a long period,he said, but gave no indication when it would be lifted.

Mr Samak said he considered the decree to be the best and most gentle measure to restore law and order, even though it could cause some trouble for people.

"I do this to douse the fire. When it is done, everything will return to normal. People went about their business as usual until [the Tuesday morning] incident. I had to use the instruments at my disposal. It will only be enforced for a short while," Mr Samak said.

The declaration of the state of emergency has triggered new calls for Mr Samak to resign.

Academics, media outlets and civil groups issued statements, calling on the premier to quit.

However, a group of Thammasat University lecturers broke ranks and demanded a House dissoluhtion instead.

PAD member Somkiat Pongpaiboon, speaking from the group's main stage, told thousands of demonstrators the alliance would only enter into negotiations after Mr Samak resigned.

The alliance would not negotiate with Gen Anupong or any other individual or group appointed by the government.

PAD lawyers Nitipon Lamlua and Suwat Apaipak on Tuesday lodged a petition with the Supreme Administrative Court against the state of emergency order and seeking its temporary suspension until a ruling is given.

They also urged the Supreme Administrative Court to refer the petition to the Constitution Court for a ruling if the matter is outside its jurisdiction.

The move is echoed by a group of senators led by Somchai Sawaengkarn. Mr Somchai said the decree was not justified. Police did too little to prevent the violence between anti-and pro-government demonstrators.

"Since the decree is not justified, the decree therefore tramples on civil liberties and is unconstitutional," he said.

They disagreed with the the argument an executive decree does not lie within the jurisdiction of the Administrative Court. The senators believe the government is exercising administrative power through the imposition of the state of emergency.

So now the deals appear to be on the table, and thank heavens the idea of removing the entire government by mob rule is possibly/hopefully off the table.

"Mr Sondhi said the government must promise not to amend the charter in its favour; to observe the Constitution Court's order regarding Preah Vihear temple; to suspend all mega-projects; and to commit to political reforms and increased public participation in politics."

"They must accept the four-point demand _ and only if the prime minister is either Somchai Wongsawat or Surapong Suebwonglee," said Mr Sondhi.

Hmmm, Phreah Vihear rears it's ugly head again. Where is Noppadope anyway? Could take a while (like 60 odd years) to "commit to political reforms" and I would love to know exactly what he means the increased public participation in politics. We have just had his version of that for 8 days of that and it has brought the country to a standstill

The demands left me puzzeled. What is going on I wonder. PAD is lowering their demands and intentions or so it seems. The question remains why.

Is the money running out, I mean the security force alone must cost them a good deal of money. Is the inactivity of the army a consideration. Did he struck a deal with either of the two persons mentioned above.

I guess if this would be the compromise, we will get the same thing all over again the minute anyone of the government makes a mistake, or whenever the vote buying courtcase is decided against PPP.

Yesterday the army chief said the sides shoudl negotiate. PAD come back with this. The ball is in Samak's court. He cant just keep refusing to move.

[animatic]

Sondhi is neither a politican nor does he want to get any job in government. Chamlong has proofed over decades that he is not corrupt.

so no evidence that they want something. While on the government side it is complete clear as they were corrupt in the past.

Sondhi doesn't want to repay his debts to Krungthai Bank.

Thaksin broke his promise to get the non-performing loans written off.

Thats the origins of their personal hatred. Not because Sondhi didn't approve of Thaksin's lifetime of dodgy dealing, nor is he is himself a fair player.

Sondhi didn't get his snout into the sleaze trough, and he didn't like being left out.

Bad argument implausably presented

That is ancient history between Krungthai bank and Sondhi.

It has little or nothing to do with the public sphere.

It also is just one of houndreds of post '97 recoveries,

not in any way especially bizarre, except it's about Sondhi

and he is aloud player now.

Thaksin WAS a friend turned on him.

This is NOT the kind of thing Asdians forget ot foregive easily.

Even if it was just shifting factions, it was below the belt in their world.

Thaksin clearly wanted to prevent Sondhi from becoming competition AGAIN.

Sondhi was bigger before he helped Thaksin make a half billion baht.

Thaksin knew what the guy could do if not bridled firmly into place.

Remember the telcom and satalite concessions in Sondhi's recent last.

Thaksin was just stopping the return of another player in probable competition.

Thing is he didn't recon on Sondhi being so good a media player...

Burn someone who REALLY nows the PR game at your own risk.

Thaksin has found this out big time.

If doing business asian style is SNOUT IN THE SLEEZE TROUGH

then you have insulted the majority of the Thai business community in one stroke.

You are trying to imply Sondhi is playing by some other set of rules then the status quo.

Naw, he's just better at taking revenge using the media, and in this case going for

the HEART of Thaksin's webs of machinations.

Like Sondhi or not, he is gentle compared to Dr. T.s methods with others.

And he is smart enough not to become a LISTED polititian which just makes you

an easy target for all. There is plenty of good business to be done without

going into office to manipulate it.

That's the Thai world for thieves, hangers on, idiot sons, and raving ego maniacs

who couldn't run a company in the real business world,

they have to steal from the little people in the country to get rich.

Read: apearantly most of PPP's players....

[Plus]

yes because the 70:30 was a proposal nothing more.....long time forgotten...

Not just a proposal, but a fundamental core belief of the PAD leadership. Funny how the BBC, the Wall Street Journal and every other source quoted here mention this as a cornerstone of their policy, but , Oh My!, how you would love to believe that it would all be forgotten!

Why not take it straight from Suriyasai:

“A challenging proposal by the leaders of the PAD is the 70:30 model, where 70 percent of political officeholders will be appointed while 30 percent will be elected. This can be counted as a start or an initiative for society to consider and debate more widely.”

http://www.prachatai.com/english/printversion.php?id=692

Why rely on newsbits chewed and spat out by others? PAD said this, PAD plans that - look at their plans are as they themselves announce them.

Also, look at four demands put out by Sondhi - 70:30 plan is simply not there.

The PAD will not stop unless one of their core leaders or puppets gets the job of prime minister. It doesn't take an Einstein to see that.

Apparently it takes a Rainman to belive in this [rubbish].

>>>

The budget bill needs to go through the parlament before it's dissolved. Samak can resign, hand the power over to someone else, and a clear date for new elections must be set. If he dissolves the House ouright he gets to keep the job as an interim PM - not the best solution.

[animatic]

The definition was bandied about earlier, but not necessarily accurately.:

Politician

–noun

1. a person who is active in party politics.

2. a seeker or holder of public office,

who is more concerned about winning favor or retaining power than about maintaining principles.

3. a person who holds a political office.

4. a person skilled in political government or administration; statesman or stateswoman.

5. an expert in politics or political government.

6. a person who seeks to gain power or advancement within an organization in ways that are generally disapproved.

I highlighted the ones I feel most apply here.

[hammered]

People Power tests water for life after Samak

Finance Minister Surapong Suebwonglee Wednesdayh questioned the true intentions of the People's Alliance for Democracy.

He asks what the opposition movement's next step will be if the prime minister resigns, or calls a snap election.

This is being interpreted as the testing of the water by Surapong, as his People Power Party considers its options.

At this juncture, the government is not in a position to play a decisive role and it is a matter for the people and the country to chart the future, Surapong said.

The Nation

Edited to format

Edited September 3, 2008 by hammered

[kurtgruen]

Yesterday the army chief said the sides shoudl negotiate. PAD come back with this. The ball is in Samak's court. He cant just keep refusing to move.

The whole idea of Negotiations is to ask for more than you really expect to get, so you can come up with a compromise that all parties involved can live with, after the other party makes a counter offer or suggestion.

That's why I believe, that in the end, Samak will end up having to resign and the rest of the PPP coalition will have to promise not to amend the Charter and to abide by the decisions of the courts, whatever they may be.

The PPP isn't really in a position to make a lot of demands on their own, given the situation. At best, if they agree to the above, the PAD will move it's peaceful demonstration to a neutral location and stop blocking Airports, etc.

I think that the above would be the best possible outcome from negotiations at this time, given all the facts at the moment.

In such a case, the PPP coalition would survive until (if the courts decide such) the courts decide that they should be disolved....

Then elections could be called and hopefully, there will be less vote buying and election fraud, given the consequences.

If in another election, the candidates and party can't refrain from vote buying and corruption again, then maybe something similar as this PAD protest will have to happen again. As they say, Rome wasn't build in one day. This will be a long, drawnout process, before we eventually might end up with a less corrupt government :-(

[Journalist]

^PPP would probably still win - in view of the pork barrel giveaways they'd promise to the Kamnans

Would that satisfy observers?

'No representation without taxation' would be a better platform. I'd give that a thumbs up - but trouble is, you can't put the toothpaste back in the tube. People won't want to give up their vote.

Edited September 3, 2008 by Journalist

[jitagon]

I can't believe that PAD, headed by Sonthi and Chamlong decided on occupying Government House without any clear idea whatsoever of what would happen if their demands for Samak to step down were met. What were they thinking if this is the case? They must have taken account of the fact that Samak, his boss and his goons would just go and form another party and hold another election, bribe or whatever their way back in.

The PAD was a very good pressure group, but they should have stated their intention first about what would happen afterwards. And it really doesn't wash their saying the people who voted PPP aka Taksin/Samak in, are too stupid/ignorant to know what they were doing. Not withstanding their not taking account of how the rest of the world would view that statement, whose fault was that?

I agree that the it is absolutely imperative that corruption is tackled before any advances towards any kind of democracy is achieved. Handing down real time jail sentences to those caught, from the local OrBorJor to the Police, to each and every politician would be a very good start. Nothing less. Every Thai I've ever spoken to about this has shrugged helplessly and said, 'It's in the blood, there's nothing we can do'. I believe there's an awful lot they can do, and it's not 'in the blood'. Given the will.

[ovenman]

Just heard thai airways are offering free flights to Bangkok from Phuket for those wishing to join the parties/demonstrations and I was told 500Baht per day drinking vouchers. wish i could get away with shopping trip on the free.

You just heard... You also got a credible source to go along with that?

only that my thai partner was just offered the deal in the market, was told they look after id cards

Okay, so on a route for which there currently exists no extra capacity in the short-term (see Phuket plane tickets among other threads), THAI is going to bump paying customers so they can send protesters to Bangkok? Tell your Thai partner not to believe every offer made at the market.

[wensiensheng]

"PAD Peace Feeler

Bangkok Post

Mr Sondhi said the government must promise not to amend the charter in its favour; to observe the Constitution Court's order regarding Preah Vihear temple; to suspend all mega-projects; and to commit to political reforms and increased public participation in politics.

Mr Sondhi said the four-point demand was strictly his own proposal, not the PAD's. He had yet to put the matter to other core members.

"They must accept the four-point demand - and only if the prime minister is either Somchai Wongsawat or Surapong Suebwonglee," said Mr Sondhi."

This guy has gotten far too big for his boots; with his unilateral demands. Someone should remind him that he's not the Head of State.

If because of the protests, Samak resigns and Parliament is dissolved, Sondhi and Chamlong might proclaim that they intend to form a government.

There is no need for Sondhi and crew to from or be part of a government....they seem to think they should pretty much run things anyway!

[cmsally]

Yesterday the army chief said the sides shoudl negotiate. PAD come back with this. The ball is in Samak's court. He cant just keep refusing to move.

The whole idea of Negotiations is to ask for more than you really expect to get, so you can come up with a compromise that all parties involved can live with, after the other party makes a counter offer or suggestion.

That's why I believe, that in the end, Samak will end up having to resign and the rest of the PPP coalition will have to promise not to amend the Charter and to abide by the decisions of the courts, whatever they may be.

The PPP isn't really in a position to make a lot of demands on their own, given the situation. At best, if they agree to the above, the PAD will move it's peaceful demonstration to a neutral location and stop blocking Airports, etc.

I think that the above would be the best possible outcome from negotiations at this time, given all the facts at the moment.

In such a case, the PPP coalition would survive until (if the courts decide such) the courts decide that they should be disolved....

Then elections could be called and hopefully, there will be less vote buying and election fraud, given the consequences.

If in another election, the candidates and party can't refrain from vote buying and corruption again, then maybe something similar as this PAD protest will have to happen again. As they say, Rome wasn't build in one day. This will be a long, drawnout process, before we eventually might end up with a less corrupt government :-(

Sondhi has said repeatedly that negotiations can only start after Samak resigns. Hardly much of a negotiation is it.

The government could I suppose say the same thing. ; negotiations can start only after PAD withdraw from GH

Back to the old stalemate.

[geovalin]

Why rely on newsbits chewed and spat out by others? PAD said this, PAD plans that - look at their plans are as they themselves announce them.

Also, look at four demands put out by Sondhi - 70:30 plan is simply not there.

OK

Let's forget what PAD said.

Let's focus on what they did.

Regarding the other dark point of their program: create the conditions of a war against Cambodia, THEY INDEED acted.

3 of their friends entered in the no mans land: this provocation nearly obliged the 2 countries to declare the war.

Then PAD guy did take their cars and drove to the temple to create troubles. No need big troubles to make the war erupt.

They DID that, it was not only words. They want the war and they'll do all to succeed.

[Jai Dee]

Chai considers House debate for crisis solution

House Speaker Chai Chidchob said Wednesday he was thinking about talking with all parties to call a session to map out a solution to political turbulence.

Chai said he was consulting the coalition and the opposition over another debate. Sunday's session ended in a failure.

He denied son Newin masterminded progovernment demonstrators to clash with the antigovernment faction on Tuesday, where one man was killed and others injured.

Source: The Nation - 03 September 2008

[paulfromphuket]

Just heard thai airways are offering free flights to Bangkok from Phuket for those wishing to join the parties/demonstrations and I was told 500Baht per day drinking vouchers. wish i could get away with shopping trip on the free.

You just heard... You also got a credible source to go along with that?

only that my thai partner was just offered the deal in the market, was told they look after id cards

Okay, so on a route for which there currently exists no extra capacity in the short-term (see Phuket plane tickets among other threads), THAI is going to bump paying customers so they can send protesters to Bangkok? Tell your Thai partner not to believe every offer made at the market.

there is quite a little crowd now waiting for the truck to take them to the airport,yellow shirts an all, maybe some special flights arranged who knows i don't really care, just thought people might like to hear of something thats happening on the ground.

[Jai Dee]

Samak declines to comment on Anupong's soft approach

Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej Wednesday refused to give his opinion of the "soft" approach adopted by Army chief General Anupong Paochinda, the man in charge of overseeing Bangkok under a state of emergency.

Samak avoided reporters after chairing the first national convention on natural resources and environment at Bangkok International Trade and Exhibition Centre.

After chairing the opening ceremony at 9:30 am for an hour, he hurriedly left in a car back to his office at the Supreme Command.

Source: The Nation - 03 September 2008