State Of Emergency Announced In Bangkok

[animatic]

I am a firm supporter of PAD and the protest....

It has always been a peaceful protest, in hopes of stopping further corruption and theft of the country to benefit a few at the top.

My wife bears the scars of the May 92 protest, when another corrupt government did the same thing to the people that were peacefully assembled. Many were killed and wounded.

The most peaceful outcome would be for word from on High to come down for Samak to find life elsewhere. I thought it would after his visit to Hua Hin last week.

RIGHT ON!!! I can't believe how many of the farangs posting on here have so little respect for the brave protesters who are standing up for a fair share of the pie, standing up to these elite few who steal from the common man. Does anybody remember the cival rights movement in America and MLK Jr. ???

You better hope it ends up better for the PAD than it did for MLK Jr..

Well funny you should mention that.

As a human and a parent and a walking talking individual it ended badly, or too soon fo MLKjr.

but for HIS GOALS it ended, no it DID NOT END, he became and icon

and his words took on a MUCH greater power than when he spoke them.

His legacy is running for president now, with a good chance of winning it.

His legacy is the great number of people who are free to do things their grandparents only hoped for.

Martin Luther King's protests in the streets that many in the opposition called illegal,

40 years on have taken on a legitimate a life of their own.

He has a national holiday and he is considered an icon of freedom,

and not just for african-americans either.

If he is looking down from above no doubt he smiles a lot.

He reached his goals, he just didn't LIVE to see it.

[ilyushin]

So much for Democracy. I'm getting out of here while the getting is good before they shut down the main airport in Bangkok. I certainly don't want to be stuck here during a Revolution should it come to that.

Good! I hope you take a few more of your kind with you. Democracy comes at a cost and the Thais are paying, you need to go back to your comfortable little meaningless life and let real issues move forward. Puss!

The PM has failed to read Thai history, he will fall it is just a matter of time. A week at most. Now the RTA will have to sort all of this out on all sides.

PM out, charged

PAD go home , 6 arrested, charged

Thugs ( both sides) gathered up and re-educated

Tourist - go home for a month

Expats - live with it or jump a plane

Peace and then......

Hold new elections.

But before all that, just wait until tomorrow for a real show down.

[Koo82]

A protestor was so clever and used red medicine (looked like blood) in the body and claimed that police harmed people

Edited September 2, 2008 by Koo82

[jitagon]

The Principal Law is made by the other side and some how supports the other side. My husband and I did not vote for that Law as it gives cracks for these protestors to climb up.

Many tv channels just deliver half of the news to support the protestors. NBT is telling all truths so they were the first to be attacked last week.

The panthamai LOL (panthamit) is going against the law. This has got to stop.

In our area, if they stop and water and electricity, we'll throw stones to them. They think they own the water & power plants. No. They just work there. These belong to public.

Arai wah??? NotAnotherNewBee.

Newbie here but oldbie in other forum

Why are you people finding it necessary to log in under new names? The rest of us don't give a flying one about who you are after all. You do realise this is only cyberspace and we don't know Where You Live under whatsoever moniker you use don't you? You all worried about your non existent reputations on a bloody expat forum? Do get a grip.

[RadioCityMike]

Sad times.

Just ask yourself if this were your own country and the goverment which was in power was saturated with corruption and was'nt prepared to bring an ex leader to justice even though he had ripped off millions of tax payers money. Which side of the fence would you be on?

The side that did not attempt to bring the government down with protests and civil disobedience and replace it with a government largely appointed by the military.

[animatic]

America founded democracy but limited the vote to land owning males...

really?

you really think that?

what about the Greek ? never heard of them ?

Yes the greeks invented democracy.

But USA was the 1st Nation founded for that basic principal.

Yes the USA originally limited the vote to property owning males,

as did most ALL countries using any kind of parlementatary system also

at that time.

[RadioCityMike]

Is there any clarification on who would "appoint" the 70% of the Members of Parliament that would be "appointed" under the PAD plan?

They kinda lost my sympathy when they proposed doing away with democracy. Definitely a wish for minority rule.

kenk3z

no because it is not true

I eagarly await hearing the PAD denounce their previous statements and hearing their new proposal.

[ukrules]

As reported on Sky News in the UK : Singapore has advised its citizens not to travel to Thailand.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

If the military stays behind Samak and the principles of elected government, Thai democracy and the rule of law might very well be strengthened.

And Samaks will fly.

But seriously, I do hope those PAD thugs learn a solid lesson.

[Koo82]

To all those PAD supports every vote is equal no matter if it is from Illsan or from the Bangkok Elite so stop disrespecting your fellow Thais by claiming the farmers who put the food on your table are stupid and don't deserve to have a equal say. It just shows your arrogance a disrespect for the poor hardworking folk who struggle everyday. No government should be appointed by few people with their own hidden agendas. PAD supporters should relize that you have gone way too far with your revolutionary rubbish and attempt to prompt a coup. You are so brainwashed that you cant even see what your leaders like Sondhi want for Thailand. You have lost all respect for people who don't believe in your ideas. Your new politics idea is another form of dictatorship that is a step back into the troubled past. Wait for the next election and get rid of the government legally. Accept the democratic way, even if it isn't perfect its the fairest system we have to go by.

Great post!

If these farmers stop working, we all will have nothing to eat. Working in offices or protesting against the law doesn't create foods.

[ThNiner]

A protestor was so clever and used red medicine (looked like blood) in the body and claimed that police harmed people

You obviously are a troll.

[Moonrakers]

America founded democracy but limited the vote to land owning males...

really?

you really think that?

what about the Greek ? never heard of them ?

Yes the greeks invented democracy.

But USA was the 1st Nation founded for that basic principal.

Yes the USA originally limited the vote to property owning males,

as did most ALL countries using any kind of parlementatary system also

at that time.

And?....................

[WAERTH]

I am not able to reach the Bangkokpost website in the last hour. anyone else has a problem with it? I am in Bangkok with a True connection.

Waerth

[prakhonchai nick]

A democratically elected government, as Samak seems to think he leads, is not democratic when it was elected corruptly.. His party certainly won the most votes BUT HOW? Throughout rural Isaan, (and no doubt elsewhere) voters were not just paid 200,300,400 or 500bt to vote for a particular candidate, but it was done with threats. They would not have access to the village fund if they did not vote for the nominated candidate, they would lose all future entitlement to vote (and thereby to receive further cash handouts)

If there was no vote buying, no doubt millions of people would not have voted at all (those who have no knowledge or interest in politics), whilst many more would have voted for those who appealed to them. The result would likely have been very different.

With free and fair elections without corrupt politicians paying to be elected, the Thai people would not have to suffer the current problems, and the later effects when international income starts drying up.

But sadly, for millions of voters money is everything! Nothing is likely to change

[hammered]

Now really is a time for calm heads. Clearing the streets is one thing. There has been enough violence alraedy, but somehow someone has got to appeal to those who feel disenfranchised. This wont be over just by clearing demonstrators. That may even lead to larger demonstrations.

So many have painted themselves into corners and now short of loss of face cant get out unless they can claim total victory. Unfortunately it doesnt look like anyone can obtain that.

Maybe we should be careful of what we put on here and with the laws affecting media freedom foreign sources may be a better bet for what has happened.

[animatic]

The state of emergency also prohibits news publicity in a way that terrifies the public.

....

The PAD have been demonstrating peacefully for weeks and continue to be peaceful.

100% of the trouble is due to Samak & the PPP who organized and deliberately intended their supporters to cause the recent violence that now gives them the excuse to attack the PAD.

Samak Ow Pai!

According to posts on Prachatai.com it was a pad protester who killed a Government supporter.

And newspapers say it was the exact inverse.

Of course the photo on CNN of a DAAD red guy with a machette

isn't exactly good PR for the PPP side of things.

Sticks cause bruises and can kill if used properly.

But in Asia it's a tradtionally defensive weapon.

Machettes sever limbs at one swing and can easily kill severalin short order.

it is a tradtionally offensive weapon.

Edited September 2, 2008 by animatic

[Buckwheat]

Just a reminder that date of joining and post counts do not make anyone's opinion gospel.

Please remain on topic and refrain from personal assessment of the worthiness or motives of fellow members.

Thank you for your anticipated cooperation.

[Koo82]

The Principal Law is made by the other side and some how supports the other side. My husband and I did not vote for that Law as it gives cracks for these protestors to climb up.

Many tv channels just deliver half of the news to support the protestors. NBT is telling all truths so they were the first to be attacked last week.

The panthamai LOL (panthamit) is going against the law. This has got to stop.

In our area, if they stop and water and electricity, we'll throw stones to them. They think they own the water & power plants. No. They just work there. These belong to public.

Arai wah??? NotAnotherNewBee.

Newbie here but oldbie in other forum

Why are you people finding it necessary to log in under new names? The rest of us don't give a flying one about who you are after all. You do realise this is only cyberspace and we don't know Where You Live under whatsoever moniker you use don't you? You all worried about your non existent reputations on a bloody expat forum? Do get a grip.

I'm in a travel forum in another website (not Thaivisa.com) which talks about travelling only .

[old wanderer]

The PM has failed to read Thai history, he will fall it is just a matter of time. A week at most. Now the RTA will have to sort all of this out on all sides.

PM out, charged

PAD go home , 6 arrested, charged

Thugs ( both sides) gathered up and re-educated

Tourist - go home for a month

Expats - live with it or jump a plane

Peace and then......

Hold new elections.

But before all that, just wait until tomorrow for a real show down.

Well my wife has put a sleeping mat out by her Thai TV, and it is tuned into ASTV, she says she will be there all night watching. I can hear her applauding and shouting sometimes.

She just came in and told me "they" (Samak) are trying to shut down ASTV.... 500 more people are going to the studios to help.

With a current govenmnet that has no respect for the Supreme Court or its rulings. Giving a diplomatic passport (actually 3 passports) to Thaskin and his family, refusing to ask for extradition, it is clear they have no respect for any law.

[ThNiner]

I'm hoping that in the end this will lead to a political revolution in Thailand. This will change things in Thailand for the better. It will be an end of the era where rampant corruption is accepted and ignored by the public. Every crook, no matter how powerful and influential he is, will be held accountable. I hope this current crisis will wake up a lot of people. It will be the end of ignorant "majority."

[RadioCityMike]

The 70:30 split is a bargaining option for forcing the hand of the people who think that vote buying is a legitimate way to win an election. It will never wash because the 70% option gives too much responsibility to the people from the ineffectual post coup govt. Thailand needs a dynamic govt to continue moving forward. The 70% are certainly not dynamic.

This govt is not democratic and Samak is lying when he speaks about defending democracy. His version of democracy is not the same as the rest of the worlds.

A 70:30 split effectively highlights the pointlessness of the currently accepted norm in Thailand.

Eventually all Thais who accept money for votes will realise they are not participating in democracy. All the Thais who mindlessly accept what the "elected" leaders tell them will also begin to wonder why the govt keeps getting kicked out. The stigma and uncertainty that vote buying creates will cause everyone to mark it on the list as unacceptable behaviour.

The PAD are making a point and Thais are starting to get the message. However it will probably need a few more rounds before the message really sinks in and no doubt there will be more blood and disruption until that happens.

PAD are making a stand against corruption and that is a "Good Thing"

If the other corrupt govt and societies of the world were subjected to this kind of continued spotlight and were not able to use violent force to shut it down they would be squirming too. All govts should be accountable to the people. If enough people feel they need to protest the govt should listen to their voices.

Burma, Zimbabwe, North Korea. They deserve an society where this kind of positive action is allowed. The PAD is setting a standard for the rest of the world. All eyes are watching. To the credit of the higher powers in Bkk they have allowed this protest to continue without too much agitation so far. It shows a free society and Thai's should be proud of the position they have reached. To the credit of the PAD the vast majority of protestors have maintained a non violent stand.

If the Army and Police unravel this with violent force then they don't deserve to be supported as they would be working against the freedoms that are being exercised by the PAD which they are supposed to be protecting.

PAD is a large and powerful group. They should redirect their power and influence at improving the government instead of destroying it. There are many ways to expose and prevent corruption in the voting booths. If PAD could guarantee to people that no one would ever know how they voted, the vote buying would be a moot point. It would be great if PAD volunteered to help insure clean and free elections.

[Koo82]

A protestor was so clever and used red medicine (looked like blood) in the body and claimed that police harmed people

You obviously are a troll.

They talked on NBT that it was red medicine and not blood.

A first few tear gas bombs were not done by the police. The police received one when it did not go off so they threw out to the protestor side.

All info I got are from watching NBT. Other stations don't support the government. NBT gives black and white evidence. I trust them.

[yumidesign]

I am a firm supporter of PAD and the protest....

....

The most peaceful outcome would be for word from on High to come down for Samak to find life elsewhere. I thought it would after his visit to Hua Hin last week.

But that word DIDN'T come. After that meeting, Prime Minister Samak was even more resolute about staying but committed to use restraint in dealing with the pad. Something to consider.

Hang on. I see a lot of the posts here are based on the belief that Samak actually tells the truth when he speaks. I do not believe one word he says. When he took over he made himself the minister for defense to cover this exact situation, to control free assembly and free speech for his own ends...... no doubt suggested by Mr T.

[animatic]

Emergency may be lifted in a few days after problems solved: Samak

BANGKOK: -- Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej said he made the decision with caution to announce the state of emergency and would try to end the problems in a few days.

He said the announcement was made after consulting officials concerned.

He said the emergency would be lifted after he solved the problems.

He said he would try to solve the problems as soon as possible.

He said the problems would be ended in a few days and Bangkok governor election candidates would later be allowed to launch their election campaigns.

-- The Nation 2008-09-02

Samak sounds almost as honest and patronizing as Magunbee our beloved "President" of Zimbabwe.

How could anyone doubt such sincerity.

Mugabe and the PAD have the same will for not letting a government democratically voted in by the majority be in power.

Except ~

Mugabe goes out of his way to beat, arrest, kill and disappear ALL who oppose his rule.

He has Absolute power, which typically corrupts absolutely. Mugabe is a classic, and most disgusting example.

This arose as a quotation

by John Emerich Edward Dalberg Acton, first Baron Acton (1834–1902). The historian and moralist, who was otherwise known simply as Lord Acton, expressed this opinion in a letter to Bishop Mandell Creighton in 1887:

"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men."

Another English politician with no shortage of names - William Pitt, the Elder, The Earl of Chatham and British Prime Minister from 1766 to 1778, is sometimes wrongly attributed as the source. He did say something similar, in a speech to the UK House of Lords in 1770:

"Unlimited power is apt to corrupt the minds of those who possess it"

Look who now has Absolute Power....

Edited September 2, 2008 by animatic

[jongkolkhoo]

Are we all blind,,,,or cannot it be seen clearly that when the court refused the 2 million baht bribe, put some of the shirt-tail relatives of Pochiman in jail, then sentenced her and a few more corrupt relives to 3 years in jail the tide was finally starting to turn. Thaskin was next, and since it was in front of the Supreme court, had he be found guilty, he would leave the court room for the jail house with no appeal. He understood this, and ran.

If Samak is allowed to continue he will change the laws, to where what were serious crimes, are no longer crimes, and it will be a further license to steal by those in power.

1)yes the court is neutral and cheers.

2) running away from court is bad,wrong,etc (may be the best choice for him)

3)"..... if samak is allowed to continue..."

just because of an assumption, so it is justified to rip down goverment building gate, storm tv stations, etc ?

how about .... ripping down the building gates and storm tv station when samak is actually changing the law to where serious crimes are no longer crime?

I don't side taksin or samak however i have not seen him (samak) done anything wrong.i have seen taksin being charged for evading tax and other bad things and i have also seen the PAD provoking anger and causing public property damage.

most of the people here ( around me ) support the mob. the party has good intentions but the way they are doing it is just isn't right.

scaring away investors is gonna put thailand a few notch backwards which is good i.e. cheaper bar and cheaper entertainment.

[WISteve]

As reported on Sky News in the UK : Singapore has advised its citizens not to travel to Thailand.

And I'm sure many other countries will follow suit in the coming hours.

Very sad time for Thailand and I can only hope that all concerned will think of their country first and the rule of law in all it's frailty will be restored here soon. No good will come of further bloodshed.

Some of us on here need to temper our emotions and keep the good of this nation in mind.

~WISteve

[Zatara]

Sad times.

Just ask yourself if this were your own country and the goverment which was in power was saturated with corruption and was'nt prepared to bring an ex leader to justice even though he had ripped off millions of tax payers money. Which side of the fence would you be on?

I'd ask myself if I contributed to the corruption, or ever spoke out against it.

Corruption in government would be a lot less if it isn't endemic all the way up from grassroots. No hope of finding moral people for government as long as corruption is mai-pen-rai'ed in every household and institution in the country.

A country gets the government it deserves. If the whole culture is accepting of corruption at every level, and contributes to it, no good crying when those kids that grew up with it get into power.

So true... The problem the Thais are facing now can't be solved in just a few days or months. The idea of democracy in Thailand is totally different and should be different than the rest of the world because of the fact you mentioned.

[geriatrickid]

America founded democracy but limited the vote to land owning males...

really?

you really think that?

what about the Greek ? never heard of them ?

Yes the greeks invented democracy.

But USA was the 1st Nation founded for that basic principal.

Yes the USA originally limited the vote to property owning males,

as did most ALL countries using any kind of parlementatary system also

at that time.

Democracy in ancient Greece has very little in common with modern "democracy". It is like comparing Watt's old steam engine with the Russian or American space shuttles. The steam engine was important in its day but was replaced by new and improved systems. Cripes, democracy took root in the Athenian city state, which can hardly be called "Greece" anymore than the old european city states of Venice or Rome could be considered nations.

However, PAD's platform has a lot in common with ancient Greece in that it would be restricted to specific classes of people. In Athenian democracy only certain freed men were allowed to vote. No slaves, no women and no non natives. PAD shares a similar position in that it would not allow Thailand's version of the non freed men, e.g. farmers the "uneducated" (I think that's PAD code for darkies) to have a vote. I don't know PAD's position is on women voting, as I don't know if they qualify as "educated" enough to vote. Perhaps they can go back to being chattel.

[ThNiner]

PAD is a large and powerful group. They should redirect their power and influence at improving the government instead of destroying it. There are many ways to expose and prevent corruption in the voting booths. If PAD could guarantee to people that no one would ever know how they voted, the vote buying would be a moot point. It would be great if PAD volunteered to help insure clean and free elections.

You think the current regime would ever let PAD volunteer in moritoring the elections? This gotta be a freaking joke of a suggestion.

[hammered]

It just doesnt look like there is a sane way out of this.