State Of Emergency Announced In Bangkok

[WISteve]

There is too much heat and lack of comprehension of the true situation here.

Firstly, Thailand is NOT a democracy. The votes have never been free or fair here, if they were there would be no vote buying or heavy "persuasion" to vote for a particular party. As an example, at the last election, my maids and their entire community were told that if they did not vote for PPP, their loans from the 1MBaht village fund would be called in. This is neither free nor fair and does not fulfill the requirements to be a democracy. No government "elected in such circumstances can be regarded as legal or legitimate.

I have several family members deeply involved at all levels in PAD. They are not paid, and those demonstrating have never received more than a bottle of water or a khanom from well-wishers. The PAD have always preached Ghandiism and non violence. Any who arrived at a demonstration with any type of weapon had it removed, or they were turned away. The PAD have legitimate grievances, not least the illegitimate government, and have the absolute right to make them known.

On Saturday/Sunday that just passed, a group of men were touring the villages in the North and, I'm told the North East, offering 500-1,000 Baht per day to men willing to go to Bangkok to form a counter demonstration and attack the PAD demonstrators. All transport etc. was provided. Is it mere coincidence that this happened just when Mr Taxin sold Man' City and became highly solvent again. The rumour is that more than coincidence is involved here.

Are these your non-violent PAD folks?

Neither side has clean hands in this situation.

Both sides (PAD and DAAD) need to stand down NOW, obey the rules of the state of emergency and solve their differences peacefully through the ballot box.

~WISteve

[toybits]

Absolutely Right. They are state employees and have a right to provide the services required by the larger population that pays taxes to pay their salaries. If they stage a mutity againsts a duly elected government, they must be willing to suffer the consequences of their action.

The Principal Law is made by the other side and some how supports the other side. My husband and I did not vote for that Law as it gives cracks for these protestors to climb up.

Many tv channels just deliver half of the news to support the protestors. NBT is telling all truths so they were the first to be attacked last week.

The panthamai LOL (panthamit) is going against the law. This has got to stop.

In our area, if they stop and water and electricity, we'll throw stones to them. They think they own the water & power plants. No. They just work there. These belong to public.

[animatic]

Sad times.

Just ask yourself if this were your own country and the goverment which was in power was saturated with corruption and was'nt prepared to bring an ex leader to justice even though he had ripped off millions of tax payers money. Which side of the fence would you be on?

Sad times indeed, but what's happening here is just less veiled (i.e. more/easier visible) than what's happening in any "democratic" Western country one would care to mention. What's lobbying if not nicely packaged corruption? And if countries through their leaders rip off other countries people for the sake of cheap oil and get bashed in return, a) where's the fence for choosing sides and which side makes you more comfortable to sit on?

Democracy is a system with major design flaws, which is one explanation of how a major Western country had its president elected and re-elected (it's not just one presy, the list is endless). Let's face it: at least 80% of any country's people are easily manipulated by well-financed marketing forces (vote buying here is a slightly more medieval extention of that). With all due respect for rice farmers: how can you expect a rice farmer to know what's (and who's) good for his/her country if not the guy with the most honed rhetorics? And there are more rice farmers than others... I don't know about the 70% elected and 30% chosen scheme, but it might just be an interesting idea to make things work better.

I was equally disgusted with Thaksin's re-election as Bush's re-election.

Well no, much more so Bush's....

Partly because of the startling similarities in how they manipulate the

lesser informed electorates fears for their own cliques massive profits.

Thaksin got caught up mostly because of the nature and youth of Thai democratic institutions.

There is less history of a quick turn over of governments in USA.

And Bush had significantly MORE money behind him.

Edited September 2, 2008 by animatic

[RadioCityMike]

Not sure if this has been reported yet. Doesn't look too good.

EXCELLENT MOVE

I suppose one reason I am so passionate about my support to getting rid of the current government, and before that thee government of Thaskin is, I saw 1st hand what his policies did in Issan. You gave a lot of people easy credit, based on how much land they owned. They went out bought new trucks, maybe a Mia Noi, a few invested in equipment to farm, but little thought was given to how to pay the money back.

What happened when they did not pay the money back? They lost their land and the government sold it to its cronies....

We bought some of this land our selves, rather than having it go to the government, and then allowed the families to keep farming it.

While a lot of people praised the government for giving them money, for a lot the full realization has yet to set in on what it truly cost them.

It was almost universal in all the villages outside Si Sa Ket for a payment of 200 to 500 baht per vote....This is not democracy.

And anarchy in the streets is democracy?

Rule of law must prevail.

The military will ultimately do that, it is all a question of how much blood will be shed along the way.

It seems 9 of 10 of the posters on here want nothing less than to see thai citizens die in the streets?

Calling on more people to join in an illegal occupation of government buildings is sedition at the very least.

I fear what will happen to the innocent, naive citizens who will answer this call for more people at the barricades.

~WISteve

There are 3 current choices for the Thai people. Rule by corrupt mobs, rule by corrupt military, or rule by corrupt democracy. I do think they have a better chance of fixing a corrupt democracy then the other 2.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

You trust NBT? You must be joking

I trust them a whole lot more than The Nation!!!

[Koo82]

They based on law to say Khun Samak should resign because he cooked on tv when being PM. Is that a valid point?

It may be a vaild point of law. That is being decided on by the courts.

And is returning in kind for the billion baht lawsuits

that Dr. T. used vs any who spoke against him while in office.

tit for tat legal machinations.

But now they’re doing against the law (breaking in Government House, causing damages to NBT stations, gathering at Head Police office….)

Does Law have any meaning to them?

[Crushdepth]

EC recommends dissolution of PPP

(BangkokPost.com) - The Election Commission (EC) announced Tuesday its decision to recommend the dissolution of the People Power party (PPP) for complicity in vote-buying by a party executive member Yongyuth Tiyapairat in the Dec 23 general election.

EC secretary-general Sutthipol Thaweechaikarn said that the vote was unanimous.

----------------------

Democracy = voting + good governance, you can't have one without the other. Let's see the Samak Apologists try and explain this one :-)

Here's some speculation for you: I think Thaksin sold his football club yesterday so that he could fund an upcoming electoral campaign.

Edited September 2, 2008 by Crushdepth

[tallfarang]

I am in the Sukhumvit area and it is business as usual here. Is the danger only in the area surrounding government house? It seems to me that the violence seems only to happen at night, and fueled by whiskey. Am I way off base here?

[ThNiner]

So the "democratically elected" gov't has just been convicted by the Election Commission in vote buying and now is at risk of getting dissolved.

So much for the fair elections ehh?

[Koo82]

I still see Khun Samak does nothing to harm the country. No valid reason to force him resign.

If they let these protestors go away with their wrong actions, in the future no one will obey the law. If you don't agree with something, protest. If you're speeding and get caught, you'll shout "You don't catch protestors causing mess. Why do you catch me?"

Enjoy NBT and the cooking of Samak

He does not cook now.

[Moonrakers]

There is too much heat and lack of comprehension of the true situation here.

Firstly, Thailand is NOT a democracy. The votes have never been free or fair here, if they were there would be no vote buying or heavy "persuasion" to vote for a particular party. As an example, at the last election, my maids and their entire community were told that if they did not vote for PPP, their loans from the 1MBaht village fund would be called in. This is neither free nor fair and does not fulfill the requirements to be a democracy. No government "elected in such circumstances can be regarded as legal or legitimate.

I have several family members deeply involved at all levels in PAD. They are not paid, and those demonstrating have never received more than a bottle of water or a khanom from well-wishers. The PAD have always preached Ghandiism and non violence. Any who arrived at a demonstration with any type of weapon had it removed, or they were turned away. The PAD have legitimate grievances, not least the illegitimate government, and have the absolute right to make them known.

On Saturday/Sunday that just passed, a group of men were touring the villages in the North and, I'm told the North East, offering 500-1,000 Baht per day to men willing to go to Bangkok to form a counter demonstration and attack the PAD demonstrators. All transport etc. was provided. Is it mere coincidence that this happened just when Mr Taxin sold Man' City and became highly solvent again. The rumour is that more than coincidence is involved here.

Are these your non-violent PAD folks?

Neither side has clean hands in this situation.

Both sides (PAD and DAAD) need to stand down NOW, obey the rules of the state of emergency and solve their differences peacefully through the ballot box.

~WISteve

I am a peaceful bloke myself.

But if one or a group of people approached me with the clear intention of kicking the sh*t out of me, then I would grab the biggest, hardest stick that I could find.

[ThNiner]

You trust NBT? You must be joking

I trust them a whole lot more than The Nation!!!

Give us that evidence you have that the Nation has been reporting lies or distorting the truths. Thanks in advance, by the way.

[toybits]

So why did George Bush win and not Al Gore? Sorry mates but just couldn't resist. If majority rules then there is no question about the legitimacy of the Samak government.

Is there any clarification on who would "appoint" the 70% of the Members of Parliament that would be "appointed" under the PAD plan?

They kinda lost my sympathy when they proposed doing away with democracy. Definitely a wish for minority rule.

kenk3z

I am not an English subject, but it would appear that the Government in England does this very thing.

You have the House of Lords....that are inherited, or appointed

Then you have the Commons that are elected by the citizens....

America founded democracy but limited the vote to land owning males...

as the voting block was widened, it slowly has become the have-nots reaching into the pockets of those that have some money.

So democracy can be defined as PAD is doing it, there is nothing sacrosanct about 1 vote for every person.

The above post "PPP won majority of the votes"....well so did Magumbee in Zimbabwe...(if you believe in corrupt elections).

In America every man, woman, minority, land owner or not has the right to vote and the majority will rule. With this kind of democracy we have a very stable government that people will invest in and have become the worlds #1 economy.

[kurtgruen]

DAAD disperses

The Democratic Alliance Against Dictatorship dispersed its rally at Sanam Luanga at 10:40 am.

Its leaders thanked the demonstrators and announced the cease of demonstration by the group, saying the government was now in control after the state of emergency was announced.

DAAD demonstrators were handed out foods and many left Sanam Luang on buses.

The Nation

They did the job Thaksins side ask them to do, got paid and went home. Now we are left with a State of Emergency, where the Government can attack the PAD at will, shut down TV stations and so on. Wonder what will happen from here on in?

[animatic]

at last let them clash,the sooner the better - this stalemate cannot go on forever....

Very bad talk, maybe a self edit is in order....

[ThNiner]

I am a peaceful bloke myself.

But if one or a group of people approached me with the clear intention of kicking the sh*t out of me, then I would grab the biggest, hardest stick that I could find.

Exactly krab.

[animatic]

DAAD disperses

The Democratic Alliance Against Dictatorship dispersed its rally at Sanam Luanga at 10:40 am.

Its leaders thanked the demonstrators and announced the cease of demonstration by the group, saying the government was now in control after the state of emergency was announced.

DAAD demonstrators were handed out foods and many left Sanam Luang on buses.

The Nation

They did the job Thaksins side ask them to do, got paid and went home. Now we are left with a State of Emergency, where the Government can attack the PAD at will, shut down TV stations and so on. Wonder what will happen from here on in?

Right on schedule.... leaving an Absolute Power..... vacuum, to suck up all dissenting voices

Edited September 2, 2008 by animatic

[Koo82]

A protestor was so clever and used red medicine (looked like blood) in the body and claimed that police harmed people

You obviously are a troll.

They talked on NBT that it was red medicine and not blood.

A first few tear gas bombs were not done by the police. The police received one when it did not go off so they threw out to the protestor side.

All info I got are from watching NBT. Other stations don't support the government. NBT gives black and white evidence. I trust them.

Surely you are writing in jest?

Got to go stock some water. Who knows they'll cut or not?

[t.s]

The state of emergency also prohibits news publicity in a way that terrifies the public.

Doesn't that mean this order is in violation of itself? Obviously Samak has only concern for himself, and have no clue what a HUGE negative impact the declaration of a state of emergency means to the rest of the world, especially investors & tourists. Samak's short-sighted efforts to save his own neck will be at the expense of all of Thailand.

Samak obviously intended and wanted this to happen. He & the PPP paid for buses to bring their supporters in from the North so they could deliberately start a fight and cause violence.

The PAD have been demonstrating peacefully for weeks and continue to be peaceful.

100% of the trouble is due to Samak & the PPP who organized and deliberately intended their supporters to cause the recent violence that now gives them the excuse to attack the PAD.

Samak Ow Pai!

i think your thai needs some work.

either that or you could explain to us exactly what samak should take

[nisei23]

I am not able to reach the Bangkokpost website in the last hour. anyone else has a problem with it? I am in Bangkok with a True connection.

Waerth

I have a True connection and I was able to see the page.

One question I have is how safe is it in Bangkok for farangs right now? For example I need to go to Siam Square later, should I postpone this trip until things have either calmed down or have been resolved?

[h90]

DAAD disperses

The Democratic Alliance Against Dictatorship dispersed its rally at Sanam Luanga at 10:40 am.

Its leaders thanked the demonstrators and announced the cease of demonstration by the group, saying the government was now in control after the state of emergency was announced.

DAAD demonstrators were handed out foods and many left Sanam Luang on buses.

The Nation

They did the job Thaksins side ask them to do, got paid and went home. Now we are left with a State of Emergency, where the Government can attack the PAD at will, shut down TV stations and so on. Wonder what will happen from here on in?

It couldn't be clearer....

[Buckwheat]

MODERATORS

Why was the PAD Lay Siege On Government House, NBT TV Station closed when PAD is still at Government House?

George explained it here in post 3,616 of the thread.

[ThNiner]

PPP didn't even have the majority of votes after all their vote buying efforts, yet time and time again they keep saying that they have the mandate to do whatever they want. Funny.

[RadioCityMike]

If PAD could guarantee to people that no one would ever know how they voted, the vote buying would be a moot point. It would be great if PAD volunteered to help insure clean and free elections

You think the current regime would ever let PAD volunteer in moritoring the elections? This gotta be a freaking joke of a suggestion.

Yes, but even more ludicrous is the suggestion that PAD:

1. Is big enough as a group to even be at the thousands of voting booths around the country, and

2. Even WANTS upcountry votes to be heard. That's their whole point, they want the Bangkok elites to rule, and the foolish uneducated peasants to do what they tell them to.

And finally to ThNiner: It's ALREADY the case that nobody can know how any individual voted. The only things they can know is THAT an individual voted at all (though not his choice), and they know how the total of a village/district votes, so by that they can conclude how effective their campaign / handouts were. But it's not the case that elections aren't free and fair in the sense that individual votes aren't anonymous, because they are.

People have to get it through their skulls that people DO vote their minds, never mind what happened during campaigns, parties, hand-outs, etc. The hand-outs only serve to make people feel good about a candidate 'who cares', then they go on and vote for that candidate. They don't have to because nobody will ever find out if they don't, but they DO!

I think if PAD were trying to help instead of tear down they could be much bigger. But, I fear I must agree with you. I don't think PAD wants Isan to have any voting rights and I do think that Isan would vote for the populist party even if there was no vote buying. I also believe that is why older democracies have a larger middle class. The populist parties get elected by legally buying the support of the poorest areas with promises of infrastructure and welfare policies. The only legal way for another party to wrestle a majority away from the PPP is to out bid them in Isan. Not too good for the wealth holders I fear.

[Scott]

You can say your as peaceful as you want, but if you keep pushing people, eventually you'll have the excuse you want to hit them with that piece of wood.

[Crushdepth]

PPP didn't even have the majority of votes after all their vote buying efforts, yet time and time again they keep saying that they have the mandate to do whatever they want. Funny. laugh.gif

If PPP is so popular, why do they need to buy votes? Anyway they'll soon have the opportunity to buy some more now that the EC has recommended PPP be dissolved. Lucky Thaksin sold his football club yesterday to free up some funds, eh?

[WISteve]

I am a peaceful bloke myself.

But if one or a group of people approached me with the clear intention of kicking the sh*t out of me, then I would grab the biggest, hardest stick that I could find.

Exactly krab.

Trouble is, all those non violent folks violently occupied a government office complex.

They built those barricades to keep the police out, first and foremost.

All these keyboard revolutionaries.

Perfectly happy it seems to see thai blood in the streets.

No good will come of this.

~WISteve

[StevieH]

i realise that as a farang it's a difficult place to comment from, but it does seem uniquely strange that people will support a proposed regime which advocates taking votes away from poor and lesser educated people while claiming to do it under a banner of pro-democracy.

[marshbags]

DAAD disperses

The Democratic Alliance Against Dictatorship dispersed its rally at Sanam Luanga at 10:40 am.

Its leaders thanked the demonstrators and announced the cease of demonstration by the group, saying the government was now in control after the state of emergency was announced.

DAAD demonstrators were handed out foods and many left Sanam Luang on buses.

They censored the bit about the handing of mega baht notes, and a Job well done, objective achieved, Phoney Wai,s all round and stand by for the next ruck, we will be in touch....marshbags

The Nation

They did the job Thaksins side ask them to do, got paid and went home. Now we are left with a State of Emergency, where the Government can attack the PAD at will, shut down TV stations and so on. Wonder what will happen from here on in?

Edited September 2, 2008 by marshbags

[Pierrot]

EC recommends dissolution of PPP

(BangkokPost.com) - The Election Commission (EC) announced Tuesday its decision to recommend the dissolution of the People Power party (PPP) for complicity in vote-buying by a party executive member Yongyuth Tiyapairat in the Dec 23 general election.

EC secretary-general Sutthipol Thaweechaikarn said that the vote was unanimous.

----------------------

Democracy = voting + good governance, you can't have one without the other. Let's see the Samak Apologists try and explain this one :-)

Here's some speculation for you: I think Thaksin sold his football club yesterday so that he could fund an upcoming electoral campaign.

Great timing ! Who can now believe the E C is independent ?

Who can still believe the people behind the unrest have Thailand best interest at heart when everything they do is pushing Thailand every day closer to civil war ?

Edited September 2, 2008 by Pierrot