State Of Emergency Announced In Bangkok

[Samuian]

demonstrators were suffering from Athlete's foot and other skin diseases caused by wetness and unhygienic clothes.

Athlete's foot comes from unclean, non-sanitary wash-shower rooms, swimming pools....DISINFECTANT, CHLORINE will help to prevent this, it takes only ONE....

the following should be in the "Donations" call...

Canesten range of products and their use in treating common infections such as thrush, athlete's foot, yeast infections, and skin infections....

isn't it a sign...? Cleanliness should prevail not only in the restrooms .... how about Parliament not only as a building/facility...? How about it's members?

remember: Cleanliness is next to godliness...

[ubonjoe]

Most probably the most important news today (and the only one, what a boring day) from the Nation:

Some 100 PAD supporters suffer from Athlete's foot, bacteria infection

Medical volunteers Saturday asked for donations of clothes, underwear and medicine for skin diseases.

The volunteers taking care of protesters at the Government House said some 100 of the demonstrators were suffering from Athlete's foot and other skin diseases caused by wetness and unhygienic clothes.

As a result, hygienic clothes and underwear and medicine could help the protesters get over the skin diseases, the volunteers said.

The Nation

I can just see the headline coming.

THAI GOVERMENT CHARGED WITH INHUMANE TREATMENT OF PROTESTORS

[Guest Reimar]

I just deleted some off topic post and a post mention the HM!

Please keep on topic.

[hammered]

Top down organization for sure.

By the way, I dont think trying to find European parallels is particularly useful. Thailand has its very own and these days fairly unique feudal structure and social set up. It is within this that analysis will reveal what is happening rather than trying to broaden it out into western notions of right/left or various isms. All imho

[cmsally]

Throughout history, anti govt movements that rely on propaganda and popular support have been bankrolled by elites and industrialists, so it should come as no surprise. Hence the article I linked earlier.

Obviously Sondhi et al is aiming at some kind of new order, but just how much it encompasses is not at all clear.

[kurtgruen]

The following is from the Far Eastern Economic Review and quite interesting and informative. It is very much Pro democracy (not necessarily pro PAD) and is written with intelligence. I'm sure most of you will enjoy it...

http://www.feer.com/politics/2008/septembe....-Samak-Must-Go

[Artisi]

" remember: Cleanliness is next to godliness... "

Not in my dictionary.

[hammered]

Throughout history, anti govt movements that rely on propaganda and popular support have been bankrolled by elites and industrialists, so it should come as no surprise. Hence the article I linked earlier.

Obviously Sondhi et al is aiming at some kind of new order, but just how much it encompasses is not at all clear.

In all fairness you could just remove the word "anti" from the highlighted part and it would also be true. Just witness a couple of party conventions the other side of the planet not so long ago . All politcs is about power and power is money and..........

[hammered]

The following is from the Far Eastern Economic Review and quite interesting and informative. It is very much Pro democracy (not necessarily pro PAD) and is written with intelligence. I'm sure most of you will enjoy it...

http://www.feer.com/politics/2008/septembe....-Samak-Must-Go

This is definitely worth a read and approaches things in a different direction form most and imho makes a good case for a solution.

Edited to add: The out and out Thaksinistas with their party line playbook arent going to like it though as it doesnt mention referendum

Edited September 6, 2008 by hammered

[animatic]

The following is from the Far Eastern Economic Review and quite interesting and informative. It is very much Pro democracy (not necessarily pro PAD) and is written with intelligence. I'm sure most of you will enjoy it...

http://www.feer.com/politics/2008/septembe....-Samak-Must-Go

This is definitely worth a read and approaches things in a different direction form most and imho makes a good case for a solution.

Edited to add: The out and out Thaksinistas with their party line playbook arent going to like it though as it doesnt mention referendum

yes to all.

One interesting line

J

ust so long as the new premier would have a less combative style than either Mr. Samak or Mr. Thaksin, and just so long as he or she possessed more of the subtle skills necessary to govern in a semi-modernized, pluralistic society, almost any of the conceivable candidates would be acceptable at this point.

That is one of the MAJOR things missing of late.

[ubonjoe]

The following is from the Far Eastern Economic Review and quite interesting and informative. It is very much Pro democracy (not necessarily pro PAD) and is written with intelligence. I'm sure most of you will enjoy it...

http://www.feer.com/politics/2008/septembe....-Samak-Must-Go

This is definitely worth a read and approaches things in a different direction form most and imho makes a good case for a solution.

Edited to add: The out and out Thaksinistas with their party line playbook arent going to like it though as it doesnt mention referendum

I could be a target for your edit. Although I don't think I am a "Thaksinista".

It is a good article not that I agree 100%.

My feelings about the PM resigning have gotten a bit weaker. If a good replacemnet for Sakak was possible and not one of those on PAD's short list of two. If PAD agreed to vacate goverment house and the nine with arrest warrants against them would turn themselves in.

I still believe a referendem is a good long term solution but without anything about PAD as came out earlier.

1. Do you support the current goverment. Yes/No

2. Constitutional Amendments Approval Yes/No

Propositon 2 would mean that all parties envolved would have to get together and come up with the amendments. I think that there have been some valid points made for the amendments already from people other than the goverment.

Edited September 6, 2008 by ubonjoe

[ThaiAdventure]

The following is from the Far Eastern Economic Review and quite interesting and informative. It is very much Pro democracy (not necessarily pro PAD) and is written with intelligence. I'm sure most of you will enjoy it...

http://www.feer.com/politics/2008/septembe....-Samak-Must-Go

This is definitely worth a read and approaches things in a different direction form most and imho makes a good case for a solution.

Edited to add: The out and out Thaksinistas with their party line playbook arent going to like it though as it doesnt mention referendum

Is this a misspelling?

The poor far prefer such tough-guy populists to the lawyerly policy-wonk types of the Democrat Party

Good, well written article that should have come from Thai journalists.

Edited September 6, 2008 by ThaiAdventure

[kurtgruen]

Just watched some monk do his thing on the ASTV stage, with all the audience praying below. No idea what they are praying for...maybe for the rain to stop?

http://wwitv.com/portal.htm?http://wwitv.c...nnels/b2973.htm

Since I only understand about 1/10th of what is said in the ongoing speeches, I turned the sound off and am now listening to some good old North American Rock and Roll instead

[sriracha john]

Politicians viewed with increasing disdain

By The Nation

Published on September 6, 2008

The political situation is boring, plagued by problems and with no solution in sight. That is the assessment of 60 per cent of the people surveyed across the country by Suan Dusit Poll and released yesterday.

The opinion survey is an attempt to glimpse what people are thinking about the political turmoil. Politicians are viewed by many with disdain and the political profession has received low approval ratings.

About 57 per cent say politicians appear to be obsessed with enriching themselves and are preoccupied with their power and individual interests.

Some 84 per cent say they don't want their offspring to opt for a career in politics. Only 21 per cent still view politicians as professionals devoted to serving the public.

Almost 36 per cent want to see negotiation or compromise as a way out of the political conflict. About 12 per cent see the prime minister's resignation or a House dissolution as a possible solution.

57 % is pretty low in most western democracies the 97 % of the population would agree.

Last Paragraph: Only 12% for dissolution or resignation seems pretty low if PAD is getting all the supprt it claims. I wonder what the other 52% had to say?

You are right 12+36=48, more than half are not mentioned....

Thank you for highlighting the absurdities of Thai polling services.

It's why they have been so mercilessly mocked in prervious threads and accounts for why in most News Clipping Forum threads, their ridiculous results are not even bothered with to get posted as they are pointless and accurately reflect nothing.

This recognition on all sides of many issues over the past years has resulted in almost a Gentleman's Agreement arrangement that they won't be posted in effort to serve as some sort of "proof" to further one's opine. Because of their gross short-comings, to do so only results in off-topic ramblings which does nothing to further the discussion.

Edited September 6, 2008 by sriracha john

[sriracha john]

Scarier than Samak, a leader on record as having advocated and condoned violence?

In 1976 as interior minister, Samak used his radio programme to stir up hatred against student demonstrators at Thammasat University, intentionally disobeying the Prime Minister's orders to "stop creating divisiveness." In defending the return of dictator Field Marshal Thanom over the radio, Samak told listeners that students demonstrating against the dictator's return were 'committing suicide'.

Flash forward to the aftermath of the 1991 coup. As Deputy Prime Minister in General Suchinda's junta, Samak justified the military's brutal suppression of pro-democracy demonstrators by declaring that the government had the right to do so as long as the United States could send troops to kill people in other countries.

As for blatant divisive propaganda, this must take the biscuit

http://www.prachatai.com/english/news.php?id=789

During the first 25 days of the rally, the PAD received 26 million baht and paid 24 million, according to the PAD's coordinator Suriyasai Katasila. During the three months, the PAD has sold 90,000 'Patriotic Chinese Descendants' t-shirts for 25 million baht, according to political scientist and Sondhi Limthongkul's close associate Chai-Anan Samudavanija. And after the Government House siege, the PAD has 6.6 million baht remaining in its bank accounts, plus gold worth 1,056,000 baht, according to one of the PAD's leaders, Chamlong Srimuang.

The link you cite does not appear to be the source of the economic info you provide after. Where does this info come from, please? Link?

I have wondered at whether there could be a racial component to the fight between PAD and the government. I'm not quite sure I'm really ready to ask that question, but the idea of 90,000 'Patriotic Chinese Descendants' T-shirts sold makes me wonder all the more...

2. The PAD’s marathon rally seems to be the world’s first demonstration that has been broadcast live through satellite TV, radio and internet, 24 hours a day and 7 days a week, for 100 days. That creates a grotesque mix of a reality show and a political campaign, and widens the contemporary western-style ‘audience democracy’, in which people are mostly viewers who vote for professional politicians’ performances through rating polls, to include ‘off the protest site’ virtual participation via tuning to the Manager Group’s FM 97.75 or ASTV.

But, on the other hand, that should make the PAD’s rally the world’s most expensive. 500,000-1,000,000 baht a day are being paid for the rent of the stage and PA system, gasoline for generators, food and allowances for staff, speakers and artists, and salaries and expenses of live broadcasting, while donations and income from selling t-shirts and merchandise are 300,000-1,000,000 baht a day.

With only one day’s budget of the PAD, normal protests by other people or even the pro-government United Front of Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) would last a week.

http://www.prachatai.com/english/news.php?id=789

The PAD-style rally needs huge financial resources, and the fact indicates the social and economic status of its support base.

Well the food is basically free as it comes from Chamlong. A lot of the TShirts are sold from private people. Most artists make it for free, But the TV coverage and the Satellite slot must cost a lot.

But if you look at DAAD: 5000 people at 500 Baht a day is 2.5 Million a day without the buses, food alcohol, stage, so with less people more expensive.

Nothing is free; at some stage along the line it is going to be an expense for someone.

I don't buy the the pitch that everyone tied to the PAD is so altruistic that this scenario is like an extended "tam boon" session. Even if it was, it is still coming out of someones pocket.

Presumably you have proof that the DAAD are paying protesters, as we have an equal amount of people on here saying the PAD do too. Unless someone has concrete evidence about paying protesters then best not to make accusations, as it just turns into a slinging match.

Personally I think both sides are paying people to protest.

But it, in no way, means both sides are doing at anywhere near an equal percentage.

The documentary evidence of news posts coupled with anecdotal evidence of members posting over the past 3 years reveals dramatic differences in PAD versus DAAD.

In fact, ANY mention of PAD being paid is only a very recent phenomena on Thaivisa... within only the past two weeks to be more precise... during which time Thaivisa and its News Clipping Forum has undergone another dramatic new phenomena in terms of its membership.

Edited September 6, 2008 by sriracha john

[LaoPo]

An interesting and relevant article.

Asia Sentinel

By: Daniel Ten Kate

31 October 2007

LaoPo

[hammered]

The following is from the Far Eastern Economic Review and quite interesting and informative. It is very much Pro democracy (not necessarily pro PAD) and is written with intelligence. I'm sure most of you will enjoy it...

http://www.feer.com/politics/2008/septembe....-Samak-Must-Go

This is definitely worth a read and approaches things in a different direction form most and imho makes a good case for a solution.

Edited to add: The out and out Thaksinistas with their party line playbook arent going to like it though as it doesnt mention referendum

I could be a target for your edit. Although I don't think I am a "Thaksinista".

It is a good article not that I agree 100%.

My feelings about the PM resigning have gotten a bit weaker. If a good replacemnet for Sakak was possible and not one of those on PAD's short list of two. If PAD agreed to vacate goverment house and the nine with arrest warrants against them would turn themselves in.

I still believe a referendem is a good long term solution but without anything about PAD as came out earlier.

1. Do you support the current goverment. Yes/No

2. Constitutional Amendments Approval Yes/No

Propositon 2 would mean that all parties envolved would have to get together and come up with the amendments. I think that there have been some valid points made for the amendments already from people other than the goverment.

No i wouldnt have you as a Thaksinista

I kinda agree that replace PM with another PPP guy and PAD leave GH and court cases go ahead is about the best outcome. No doubt there would be a massive knuckle over what order it would all happen in if they even agreed to it though !

You cant have a referendum on th egivernment as constitutionally referenda on groups of individuals is not allowed. Same as in many places. You could have a refrendum on do you want a constitutional ammendment although it would be better to have one on a raft of changes imho. You could even put every single suggested change to a referendum on a line by line basis although to my mind it would be better to have full public consultation on charter changes and then for it to be redrafted and presented fo an up or down vote but with any contentious clauses being seperately voted on too so you wouldnt have to reject or accpet the whole thing based on a single contentious issue.

Anyway Im rambling

[ubonjoe]

The following is from the Far Eastern Economic Review and quite interesting and informative. It is very much Pro democracy (not necessarily pro PAD) and is written with intelligence. I'm sure most of you will enjoy it...

http://www.feer.com/politics/2008/septembe....-Samak-Must-Go

This is definitely worth a read and approaches things in a different direction form most and imho makes a good case for a solution.

Edited to add: The out and out Thaksinistas with their party line playbook arent going to like it though as it doesnt mention referendum

I could be a target for your edit. Although I don't think I am a "Thaksinista".

It is a good article not that I agree 100%.

My feelings about the PM resigning have gotten a bit weaker. If a good replacemnet for Sakak was possible and not one of those on PAD's short list of two. If PAD agreed to vacate goverment house and the nine with arrest warrants against them would turn themselves in.

I still believe a referendem is a good long term solution but without anything about PAD as came out earlier.

1. Do you support the current goverment. Yes/No

2. Constitutional Amendments Approval Yes/No

Propositon 2 would mean that all parties envolved would have to get together and come up with the amendments. I think that there have been some valid points made for the amendments already from people other than the goverment.

No i wouldnt have you as a Thaksinista

I kinda agree that replace PM with another PPP guy and PAD leave GH and court cases go ahead is about the best outcome. No doubt there would be a massive knuckle over what order it would all happen in if they even agreed to it though !

You cant have a referendum on th egivernment as constitutionally referenda on groups of individuals is not allowed. Same as in many places. You could have a refrendum on do you want a constitutional ammendment although it would be better to have one on a raft of changes imho. You could even put every single suggested change to a referendum on a line by line basis although to my mind it would be better to have full public consultation on charter changes and then for it to be redrafted and presented fo an up or down vote but with any contentious clauses being seperately voted on too so you wouldnt have to reject or accpet the whole thing based on a single contentious issue.

Anyway Im rambling

Thanks

Would the current goverment be considered a group?

Yes It could be several amendments with yes/no for each one and different versions for each article to be ammended. Under some constitutions a referendem is the only way to amend the constitution.

[paulfromphuket]

Does any body know if the students are gathering for this march in BKK or has it been washed out?

[Ulysses G.]

I am against what PAD has done and had thought that the elected government should not resign, however, the military has now refused to support the government against the illegal protesters, so it is only a matter of time.

Samak has no real power anymore and very few bargaining chips. It is time to give up.

[cmsally]

An interesting and relevant article.

Asia Sentinel

By: Daniel Ten Kate

31 October 2007

LaoPo

I know that article is out of date but I think it is still relevant. Just what he admits to around 2006 is interesting.

It also illustrates the kind of people you are dealing with . Just do a search on the name, it is quite illuminating.

[animatic]

I really thing Dr. T. picked him specifically for his

well documented Bull headedness, documented propensity for violence,

documented intolerance, and documented dislike by the other side.

ALL in the hopes of getting a total blow up of the situation.

win win or lose lose depending on your point of view.

Then DR.T. can swoop into the chaos and save the day.

Or at least save his cash when no one's looking too hard.

Edited September 6, 2008 by animatic

[h90]

I really thing Dr. T. picked him specifically for his

well documented Bull headedness, documented propensity for violence,

documented intolerace, and documented dislke by the other side.

ALL in the hopes of getting a total blow up of the situation.

Then he can swoop into the chaos and save the day.

Or at least save his cash when no one's looking too hard.

I don't think so, at least not on the beginning. For me it seemed that PPP thought they won't win and wanted such a bull to damage the Democrats day and night.

After the won there was a bit of a fighting who get premier which Samak won. Than it was meant that he change the constitution and resign after 6 month. He first wanted to do it only after 3.5 years, but than the "dissolve PPP" action came.

So I doubt there is a big smart masterplan....I can't imagine that a guy like Samak could get any job in a private owned company. (Well maybe in stock, counting screws, alone)

[animatic]

I really thing Dr. T. picked him specifically for his

well documented Bull headedness, documented propensity for violence,

documented intolerace, and documented dislke by the other side.

ALL in the hopes of getting a total blow up of the situation.

Then he can swoop into the chaos and save the day.

Or at least save his cash when no one's looking too hard.

I don't think so, at least not on the beginning. For me it seemed that PPP thought they won't win and wanted such a bull to damage the Democrats day and night.

After the won there was a bit of a fighting who get premier which Samak won. Than it was meant that he change the constitution and resign after 6 month. He first wanted to do it only after 3.5 years, but than the "dissolve PPP" action came.

So I doubt there is a big smart master plan....I can't imagine that a guy like Samak could get any job in a private owned company. (Well maybe in stock, counting screws, alone)

Running the canteen?

'Here soi dog bring back that soup bone. WHACK!!!

I think Dr. T. thinks several steps and consequences ahead. His history shows that.

It also shows his thinking deteriorates under excessive presure too.

I think he wanted a divicive loose cannon. Make's it easier to make him look good,

and distract the populace during an end run.

Edited September 6, 2008 by animatic

[Tony Clifton]

Jakaprob is on Al Jazzera right now, the faithful zombie just can`t stop. Still talking about invisible hands and powers while he`s already under Lèse Majesté charges. Sounds like a despserate man trying to salvage a career at any cost.

[h90]

I really thing Dr. T. picked him specifically for his

well documented Bull headedness, documented propensity for violence,

documented intolerace, and documented dislke by the other side.

ALL in the hopes of getting a total blow up of the situation.

Then he can swoop into the chaos and save the day.

Or at least save his cash when no one's looking too hard.

I don't think so, at least not on the beginning. For me it seemed that PPP thought they won't win and wanted such a bull to damage the Democrats day and night.

After the won there was a bit of a fighting who get premier which Samak won. Than it was meant that he change the constitution and resign after 6 month. He first wanted to do it only after 3.5 years, but than the "dissolve PPP" action came.

So I doubt there is a big smart master plan....I can't imagine that a guy like Samak could get any job in a private owned company. (Well maybe in stock, counting screws, alone)

Running the canteen?

Here soi dog bring back that soup bone.

I think Dr. T. thinks several steps and consequences ahead. His history shows that.

It also shows his thinking deteriorates under excessive presure too.

I think he wanted a devicive loose cannon. Make's it easier to make him look good,

and distract the populace during an end run.

Well with the former planning to change the constitution and pardon Thaksin it makes more sense.

At the end Abhisit would look weak, Samak looks violent and ugly (and has done the job anyway, as well getting old, so no further need for him) and simple minds can remember back to the good old times of gently Thaksin.

The perfect situation for getting elected again.

That would make sense.

[h90]

Jakaprob is on Al Jazzera right now, the faithful zombie just can`t stop. Still talking about invisible hands and powers while he`s already under Lèse Majesté charges. Sounds like a despserate man trying to salvage a career at any cost.

Thanks to the police the current Lèse Majesté charges are anyhow stuck, or?

[kurtgruen]

Does any body know if the students are gathering for this march in BKK or has it been washed out?

Here is your answer, from the Post. I didnt' see much else on it. The article is longer, I'm only quoting the first few lines...

(BangkokPost.com) - About a thousand school and university students paraded to the Democracy Monument in Bangkok on Saturday evening. They called on more youths to be politically active.

A group of students from 80 educational institutes under the name “Young PAD (People’s Alliance for Democracy)” marched to the Democracy Monument to voice their political views.

Key members of the group told their young supporters to only listen to their orders and gather in peace, while guard volunteers were providing security for them.

[Los78]

I really thing Dr. T. picked him specifically for his

well documented Bull headedness, documented propensity for violence,

documented intolerace, and documented dislke by the other side.

ALL in the hopes of getting a total blow up of the situation.

Then he can swoop into the chaos and save the day.

Or at least save his cash when no one's looking too hard.

I don't think so, at least not on the beginning. For me it seemed that PPP thought they won't win and wanted such a bull to damage the Democrats day and night.

After the won there was a bit of a fighting who get premier which Samak won. Than it was meant that he change the constitution and resign after 6 month. He first wanted to do it only after 3.5 years, but than the "dissolve PPP" action came.

So I doubt there is a big smart masterplan....I can't imagine that a guy like Samak could get any job in a private owned company. (Well maybe in stock, counting screws, alone)

Your expert analysis on the Thai politics amazes me.....You should forget Samak before you get a heart attack. Why dont you tell us about your solutions for Thailand. Samak is 76 years old so why would he look for another job. I think retirement would suit him fine but he wants to fight for democracy and having every vote equal so good on him... Its so easy to critize the government but it just shows that you and your PAD mob comrades have no ideas or visions for Thailand except (new politics) or a form of dictatorship. You should google the PAD leaders names and see how much curruption, and hatred is in their dirty pasts.

[animatic]

I really thing Dr. T. picked him specifically for his

well documented Bull headedness, documented propensity for violence,

documented intolerace, and documented dislke by the other side.

ALL in the hopes of getting a total blow up of the situation.

Then he can swoop into the chaos and save the day.

Or at least save his cash when no one's looking too hard.

I don't think so, at least not on the beginning. For me it seemed that PPP thought they won't win and wanted such a bull to damage the Democrats day and night.

After the won there was a bit of a fighting who get premier which Samak won. Than it was meant that he change the constitution and resign after 6 month. He first wanted to do it only after 3.5 years, but than the "dissolve PPP" action came.

So I doubt there is a big smart masterplan....I can't imagine that a guy like Samak could get any job in a private owned company. (Well maybe in stock, counting screws, alone)

Your expert analysis on the Thai politics amazes me.....You should forget Samak before you get a heart attack. Why dont you tell us about your solutions for Thailand. Samak is 76 years old so why would he look for another job. I think retirement would suit him fine but he wants to fight for democracy and having every vote equal so good on him... Its so easy to critize the government but it just shows that you and your PAD mob comrades have no ideas or visions for Thailand except (new politics) or a form of dictatorship. You should google the PAD leaders names and see how much curruption, and hatred is in their dirty pasts.

Samak has never shown he cared two tits for democracy in ANY of his last incarnations,

you think old age has mellowed him suddenly, recent evi-dense debunks that canard.

No, his main current interest seems to be, to go to his grave with as much FACE as he can salvage.

This whole debacle now comes down to how he leaves office with enough face

not to want to top himself in shame for failing so miserably.

Problem is NO ONE can figure how to do that.

It's easy to say we are PAD mobs and demand we come up with solutions.

And not say anything yourself but the unacceptable status quo.

Step one

is get rid of avowed currupt influences at the seat of government.

Step two

is let the thais vote again, but with real proportional voting

none of this party list crap that stacks the deck for a given team.

Areas POPULATIONS get a representiative for their area, from their area known to them.

And relative to their local population; like one rep per 15-20,000 residents.

Then a given area by gross geographic area or region gets two voting reps for the senate.

Step three

ALL elected officials agree to an open, hands up, public vote for their leaders

Until an ultimate PM is chosen by acclaim.

so ALL people know how they voted, no back door shenangagins.

This is published if not the second largest gets 2 weeks etc. if not the third.

Once this is done

Step four

give 2 weeks for the largest vote getter to form a coalition.

If they can't next largest block 2 weeks again.

Eventually it gets an overall agreement.

This is a good start.

What have you offered,

Samak and his cronies continue...

Edited September 6, 2008 by animatic