ClaytonSeymour Posted September 13, 2008 Share Posted September 13, 2008 Italian national airline, Alitalia, are running out of fuel & may cease operations after Sunday. Their demise has been on the cards for quite a while & has loomed ever larger, since takeover talks with Air France-KLM broke down earlier this year. It now looks like the inevitable is finally going to happen. Full story here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7614336.stm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james1979 Posted September 13, 2008 Share Posted September 13, 2008 im sure they will get purchased at a discount by some airline Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaytonSeymour Posted September 13, 2008 Author Share Posted September 13, 2008 im sure they will get purchased at a discount by some airline They most likely would have been had it not been for the unions; they were pivotal in the failure of the Air France-KLM takeover. It seems to have reached the point where if they don't fold, their aircraft will be impounded by the fuel companies. I would suggest that any chance of a takeover has gone - they're all set to follow Sabena & Swiss Air into bankruptcy & some new entity will be born. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianw Posted September 13, 2008 Share Posted September 13, 2008 According to one of the u k newspapers the next one to go is Air Berlin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetjock Posted September 13, 2008 Share Posted September 13, 2008 I don't know how you folks feel, but I personally feel a great deal of sadness when I think of the demise of so many of the once really great airlines of the world like Pan American, TWA, Sabena, etc. that eventually went bankrupt. Airlines were once a great source of national pride for countries but are now reduced to nothing but a corporate balance sheet for a form of transportation that due to cutthroat competition, high oil prices, and constant labor management bickering has gradually been been adapting a cattle car mentality in an attempt to survive. It will be even sadder for the passengers as eventually fewer airlines due to less competition will be able to control the market and pricing. IMHO it will be another sad day if Alitalia goes under. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaytonSeymour Posted September 13, 2008 Author Share Posted September 13, 2008 According to one of the uk newspapers the next one to go is Air Berlin The papers are a day old - that was based on Paddy Power's latest odds. The last time I looked, Alitalia had been backed in to 5/4 favourites, followed by SkyEurope, who have been backed in to 5/2 following comments from Michael O'Leary (CEO of Ryanair) that they'd be gone within weeks. Air Berlin are still holding firm at 7/1. Incidentally, XL Airways were gambled on to fail throughout the week - they stopped taking bets on Thursday after they'd been reduced to 4/6. Seems that with airlines, it really does pay to follow the money. These days it's very seldom that I place a bet, but, in the current climate, I'm certainly going to keep my eye on this particular market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamai04 Posted September 13, 2008 Share Posted September 13, 2008 I don't know how you folks feel, but I personally feel a great deal of sadness when I think of the demise of so many of the once really great airlines of the world like Pan American, TWA, Sabena, etc. that eventually went bankrupt. Airlines were once a great source of national pride for countries but are now reduced to nothing but a corporate balance sheet for a form of transportation that due to cutthroat competition, high oil prices, and constant labor management bickering has gradually been been adapting a cattle car mentality in an attempt to survive. It will be even sadder for the passengers as eventually fewer airlines due to less competition will be able to control the market and pricing. IMHO it will be another sad day if Alitalia goes under. Sad? We (the italian) are paying 1 million euro a day for the loss of this f*****d airline. I hope nobody will never fly Alitalia even if it will survive. Anyway next monday they will finish the money. Alleluja. 10 years of losses under union and political control, left, center, right every party was involved. Don't tell me that LOS is a corrupted country. Italy is in a worse situation... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaytonSeymour Posted September 13, 2008 Author Share Posted September 13, 2008 According to one of the uk newspapers the next one to go is Air Berlin The papers are a day old - that was based on Paddy Power's latest odds. The last time I looked, Alitalia had been backed in to 5/4 favourites, followed by SkyEurope, who have been backed in to 5/2 following comments from Michael O'Leary (CEO of Ryanair) that they'd be gone within weeks. Air Berlin are still holding firm at 7/1. Incidentally, XL Airways were gambled on to fail throughout the week - they stopped taking bets on Thursday after they'd been reduced to 4/6. Seems that with airlines, it really does pay to follow the money. These days it's very seldom that I place a bet, but, in the current climate, I'm certainly going to keep my eye on this particular market. Update: Alitalia now 8/15 on to be the next airline to enter administration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamai04 Posted September 13, 2008 Share Posted September 13, 2008 Update: Alitalia now 8/15 on to be the next airline to enter administration. Nahhhh, do you really on this kind of things???? Can I do it via Internet? I know for sure that KLM is selling Alitalia ticket for december...so AirFrance at the end will buy what will be left.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_Pat_Pong Posted September 14, 2008 Share Posted September 14, 2008 I don't know how you folks feel, but I personally feel a great deal of sadness when I think of the demise of so many of the once really great airlines of the world like Pan American, TWA, Sabena, etc. that eventually went bankrupt. Airlines were once a great source of national pride for countries but are now reduced to nothing but a corporate balance sheet for a form of transportation that due to cutthroat competition, high oil prices, and constant labor management bickering has gradually been been adapting a cattle car mentality in an attempt to survive. It will be even sadder for the passengers as eventually fewer airlines due to less competition will be able to control the market and pricing. IMHO it will be another sad day if Alitalia goes under. Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spee Posted September 14, 2008 Share Posted September 14, 2008 Airlines were once a great source of national pride for countriesIMHO it will be another sad day if Alitalia goes under. Do you believe that airlines should be state property rather than independent commercial entities? Is every small or large country running a state-owned airline necessarily a good thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted September 14, 2008 Share Posted September 14, 2008 Does this mean his holiness the Pope is stranded in France? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaytonSeymour Posted September 14, 2008 Author Share Posted September 14, 2008 Does this mean his holiness the Pope is stranded in France? I saw this question asked elsewhere - someone suggested that whilst the Pope always flies out on an Alitalia charter flight, he usually returns with the local airline. I've checked this out, he is indeed being transported around France on AF & they'll be returning him to Rome. Apparently, he has said that he'll be praying for Alitalia - that's a serious comment by the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaytonSeymour Posted September 14, 2008 Author Share Posted September 14, 2008 Airlines were once a great source of national pride for countriesIMHO it will be another sad day if Alitalia goes under. Do you believe that airlines should be state property rather than independent commercial entities? Is every small or large country running a state-owned airline necessarily a good thing? I'd suggest that the Italian government's 49.9% stake in Alitalia has been part of their failings. Whilst in recent times they may have kept them afloat with 'illegal' handouts, without political involvement, they possibly wouldn't have been in this state in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaytonSeymour Posted September 14, 2008 Author Share Posted September 14, 2008 Update: Alitalia shorten to 2/5 favourites to be the next airline to go bust. I'm actually surprised they are still taking bets on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaoPo Posted September 14, 2008 Share Posted September 14, 2008 According to one of the u k newspapers the next one to go is Air Berlin It's a little different...they're betting *** 7:1 that Air Berlin is the next airline to go under. That would surprise me a lot...and I hope not since my wife is flying on Wednesday to Beijing with Air Berlin. Air Berlin's 2Q net profit rises to €8.3M Published: August 28, 2008 Frankfurt: Discount airline Air Berlin PLC posted a second-quarter net profit as a growth in sales on new routes helped offset the increases in fuel prices. The Berlin-based company, whose airlines include LTU, Niki, Belair and LGW, earned €8.3 million (US$12.26 million) in the second quarter, compared with a loss of €59 million a year earlier, when it booked charges related to the acquisitions of LTU and Belair. That helped push Air Berlin shares up more than 2.5 percent to €3.99 (US$5.89) in Frankfurt trading. Sales rose 6.7 percent to €869.5 million (US$1.3 billion) in the quarter, compared with €654.5 million last year. Its pretax profit fell to €13.8 million (US$20.4 million) from €18.7 million, a decline the airline blamed on high costs in starting new routes to China as well as fees paid to consultants in its aborted attempt to acquire Condor. The rising cost of jet fuel was blamed for Thomas Cook and Air Berlin's joint decision last month to ground the airlines' €600 million (US$886.02 million) merger with rival Condor. Air Berlin is Germany's second-biggest airline, behind Deutsche Lufthansa AG. -Int. Herald Tribune *** http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2...15875-20735166/ That's a serious newspaper isn't it ? LaoPo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nookiebear Posted September 14, 2008 Share Posted September 14, 2008 im sure they will get purchased at a discount by some airline Too late in the day for that...........The unions will have a hel_l of a lot to answer for very shortly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nookiebear Posted September 14, 2008 Share Posted September 14, 2008 According to one of the u k newspapers the next one to go is Air Berlin It's making a profit.........one of the few that are!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaoPo Posted September 14, 2008 Share Posted September 14, 2008 Italy scrambles to save bankrupt airline Alitalia 1 hour ago ROME (AP) — The Italian government is holding emergency talks with unions and investors over a plan to save Alitalia as the bankrupt airline risks having to ground flights for lack of fuel. The rescue plan would have investors buying profitable assets and investing $1.4 billion amid wage cuts and layoffs that are opposed by the unions. The government is mediating emergency talks that started Saturday and resumed Sunday morning. Talks broke down on Friday when the investors walked out after failing to win the unions' crucial support. The investors' offer remains on the table, and officials are trying to break the deadlock. --AP LaoPo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaytonSeymour Posted September 14, 2008 Author Share Posted September 14, 2008 Update: Alitalia now 1/4 on favourites to be the next airline to go bust. SkyEurope out to 4/1 - might be tempting given the latest developments with AZ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geriatrickid Posted September 14, 2008 Share Posted September 14, 2008 Trying to save Alitalia is throwing good money after bad. Time to let it die. It can't be compared to Swiss Air. The crews on Swiss were professional and understood the concept of service. When Swiss failed it was able to be reincarnated because customers still thought highly of it. Very similar to when Delta went into reorganization. Amazing what a smile from an FA or ticket agent can do. Based upon my limited Alitalia experiences, its personnel didn't care and it showed. There will be no outpouring of sadness from PAX when it folds as there was with Delta or Swiss. The other EU airlines can easily fill the breach left by Alitalia's withdrawal from long haul routes. It can stick to domestic flights and keep the politicos and unions happy as it burns through more money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetjock Posted September 14, 2008 Share Posted September 14, 2008 Airlines were once a great source of national pride for countriesIMHO it will be another sad day if Alitalia goes under. Do you believe that airlines should be state property rather than independent commercial entities? Is every small or large country running a state-owned airline necessarily a good thing? In answer to your question, absolutely not. I think that deregulation of the airline industry in the late 70's brought about many good changes in the industry but unfortunately as time has passed, we are beginning to find that it also brought about some bad changes that are now slowly strangling the industry. IMO the total deregulation has gone too far and we need regain a little more control and regulation of the industry in order to preserve safety, comfort, and pricing for the traveling public. The way it is currently going, as the airlines go under and the competition is less, eventually there will be many fewer airlines to choose from and the airlines will have much more ability to price gouge on the less popular routes as there will be many more one horse towns or towns with no service at all. It is just my humble opinion but interestingly, many of the CEO's that I have recently heard interviewed that were once for total deregulation are also now realizing that a little more regulation would be better for the industry and the traveling public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaytonSeymour Posted September 14, 2008 Author Share Posted September 14, 2008 Update: Alitalia 1/5 on favourites to become next airline to go bust. Having drifted out to 16/1, Air Berlin have now had their odds clipped to 8/1 third favourites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spee Posted September 14, 2008 Share Posted September 14, 2008 Airlines were once a great source of national pride for countriesIMHO it will be another sad day if Alitalia goes under. Do you believe that airlines should be state property rather than independent commercial entities? Is every small or large country running a state-owned airline necessarily a good thing? In answer to your question, absolutely not. I think that deregulation of the airline industry in the late 70's brought about many good changes in the industry but unfortunately as time has passed, we are beginning to find that it also brought about some bad changes that are now slowly strangling the industry. IMO the total deregulation has gone too far and we need regain a little more control and regulation of the industry in order to preserve safety, comfort, and pricing for the traveling public. The way it is currently going, as the airlines go under and the competition is less, eventually there will be many fewer airlines to choose from and the airlines will have much more ability to price gouge on the less popular routes as there will be many more one horse towns or towns with no service at all. It is just my humble opinion but interestingly, many of the CEO's that I have recently heard interviewed that were once for total deregulation are also now realizing that a little more regulation would be better for the industry and the traveling public. Thanks for the insight. One of the problems I see are excessive government taxes. Pricing out a Prem Econ seat on Thai Air from LAX-BKK, the base fare is about $1250 and then there are $650 in taxes added on, to make a total price of about $1900. Is there any other industry or place in the world where people should have to tolerate such an oppressive tax structure? People can say that it pays for security, but the Dept. of HS is a farcical bloated tax-payer funded bureacracy. I recently took a cross country flight in the US. There were more than a dozen security people at each entrance, with about half just sitting around shining furniture with their ass. Can't speak for the rest of the world, but in the states, airport security should be the responsibility of the airport. They are a business just like any other. If they have shoddy security, then they should be held accountable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
britmaveric Posted September 14, 2008 Share Posted September 14, 2008 ^Prior 911 - airport was responsible for the security and well lets say they didnt do a real good job. Remains to be seen if this is any better, but no incidents since, so got to give them some credit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaytonSeymour Posted September 14, 2008 Author Share Posted September 14, 2008 Update: Betting suspended on the next airline to go bust. I guess they're waiting for the outcome of tonight's crunch talks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaytonSeymour Posted September 18, 2008 Author Share Posted September 18, 2008 It looks like it might be all over, just seen this on the BBC: 'Consortium withdraws Alitalia bid The business consortium proposing to rescue Italian airline Alitalia has withdrawn its offer in the face of union opposition.' Full article here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7622304.stm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dumball Posted September 18, 2008 Share Posted September 18, 2008 It looks like it might be all over, just seen this on the BBC: 'Consortium withdraws Alitalia bid The business consortium proposing to rescue Italian airline Alitalia has withdrawn its offer in the face of union opposition.' Full article here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7622304.stm Good old unity of the unions , better we are ALL out of work instead of just some of us !!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaigene2 Posted September 19, 2008 Share Posted September 19, 2008 Useless little airline anyway, from a country that pretends it matters. Arivaderci. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kartman Posted September 19, 2008 Share Posted September 19, 2008 Look on the bright side if they are grounded another fleet of MD80/82s that can't fall very far! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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