Problem On Departure?

[WalterTP]

Gentlemen, I would appreciate your feedback on this matter.

Our grandchildren have lived with my wife (Thai) and I since we retired here 5 years ago. The children were included on my visa extensions over the years. Before the last extension expired we were able to obtain Thai birth certificates for them which would make them Thai citizens as well as US citizens. Since then we have also obtained Thai passports for them and plan to visit the US soon. They would leave on their Thai passports and enter the US on their US passports.

I am sure that Thai immigration will question the fact that they have no US visa stamp in their passports and we will have to produce their US passports. So far so good. My question for you learned gentlemen, will the fact that their last Thai visa extension expired over a year ago (after they had established their Thai identity ) present a problem when we face immigration at the airport?

[Mario2008]

They entered Thailand on their US passport and should leave Thailand on their US passport and show their Thai passport to establish they didn't needed a visa. When come back just enter Thailand again on their Thai passport.

It will be an administrative inconvienence for immigration to sort out, but it shouldn't be a problem. A Thai national has the right to stay in Thailand (without a visa).

[Maestro]

When leaving Thailand on the Thai passport, not Thai immigration but the airline’s check-in staff will want to see the US passport for confirmation that the children do not need a visa for the US.

If the immigration officer also wants to see the US passport (unlikely) there is no harm in showing it to him.

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Maestro

[Mario2008]

When leaving Thailand on the Thai passport, not Thai immigration but the airline's check-in staff will want to see the US passport for confirmation that the children do not need a visa for the US.

If the immigration officer also wants to see the US passport (unlikely) there is no harm in showing it to him.

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Maestro

His grandchildren entered Thailand on their US passport and are in the immigration files as such, so for administrative purposes they have to check out of Thailand on their US passports.

[monty]

His grandchildren entered Thailand on their US passport and are in the immigration files as such, so for administrative purposes they have to check out of Thailand on their US passports.

This is correct!

Also, as long as the children are under (I think, maybe somebody can confirm this age) 12 years of age, even with a years' worth of overstay they won't have to pay a fine, regardless of their nationality!

If they are over 12 years of age, I would recommend going to an immigration office first with all the paperwork to sort everything out.

[WalterTP]

His grandchildren entered Thailand on their US passport and are in the immigration files as such, so for administrative purposes they have to check out of Thailand on their US passports.

This is correct!

Also, as long as the children are under (I think, maybe somebody can confirm this age) 12 years of age, even with a years' worth of overstay they won't have to pay a fine, regardless of their nationality!

If they are over 12 years of age, I would recommend going to an immigration office first with all the paperwork to sort everything out.

They are both over 12 years of age.

Why there be any fine at all? Once they became Thai citizens the requirement for a visa became moot, no? As for the administrative purpose served by departing on the US passport, I really don't want to put myself at the mercy of a immigration officer who may or may not be having a good day.

[Gumballl]

When leaving Thailand on the Thai passport, not Thai immigration but the airline’s check-in staff will want to see the US passport for confirmation that the children do not need a visa for the US.

If the immigration officer also wants to see the US passport (unlikely) there is no harm in showing it to him.

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Maestro

The response provided by Maestro is the correct one.

You show the US passport to the airline attendant when checking in; this informs him/her that the child has the proper documentation to proceed with their travel plans. Also, and this is important, ask the attendant for a blank Departure Form for the child's Thai passport.

When approaching the Thai immigration official, present the completed a Departure Form along with the Thai passport. The Thai immigration official is not interested in your child's destination, nor whether the child has a US passport or not.

When you arrive in the US, show the US customs agent your child's US passport. You can keep the Thai passport tucked away.

P.S. Make sure you have a Departure Form for each child that is a dual-citizen.

P.S.S. To the best of my recollection, the Departure Form is the same white w/ blue-lettering form that foreigners complete on arrival (the second half of the form that is stapled to our passports). The Thai immigration official will staple the Departure Form to the child's Thai passport.

Edited September 16, 2008 by Gumballl

[Maestro]

Now I get it. The grandchildren entered Thailand on their US passports and got extensions of stay. Then they got their Thai birth certificates and Thai passports and apparently you then stopped doing the extensions of stay for them and they are now on overstay.

First and very importantly, on there next departure from Thailand they must use the passport with which they entered the country, ie the US passport. If this means that you have to pay an overstay fee for them, so be it. They fact they now have a Thai passport does not change the fact that they are, at your choice, in Thailand as US nationals and therefore have to comply with relevant requirements.

You should go to the immigration office and get them a new extension of stay. This can be again as your dependants, or as dual Thai citizens in Thailand on their foreign passports.

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Maestro

[Mario2008]

Minors don't get fined for overstay.

But is it realy the case that if you enter on a foreign passport and also have a Thai passport you need to get extensions of stay, etc? If you are Thai you are entitled to stay without any visa, the fact that you also have another nationality changes nothing to that fact. So on what basis would they get fined? I don't think the immigration act provides for this scenario.

If someone finaly would aquire Thai nationality would he still have to go for visa extensions, make his 90 day reports, till the first time he leaves the country?

[NHJ]

If someone does acquire thai nationality after entering the country under another nationality(us by exemple), he has to go out of the country (preferably before being an overstayer as a stamp will be placed) with the us passeport and come back with the thai passeport.

I don't think the immigration can handle this situation inside the country as technically you entered the country and you'll need to leave it(in and out stamp).

[Sophon]

Minors don't get fined for overstay.

But is it realy the case that if you enter on a foreign passport and also have a Thai passport you need to get extensions of stay, etc? If you are Thai you are entitled to stay without any visa, the fact that you also have another nationality changes nothing to that fact. So on what basis would they get fined? I don't think the immigration act provides for this scenario.

If someone finaly would aquire Thai nationality would he still have to go for visa extensions, make his 90 day reports, till the first time he leaves the country?

Yes, I believe it's correct that if a Thai national enters on a foreign passport then he is treated as a foreigner and is liable for an overstay fine. The fact that he is Thai doesn't change that.

Which passport should I use?

I have dual nationality, Thai and Dutch. I entered Thailand on my Dutch passport, in which I had a visa that expired on February 15 this year. Six weeks later I was issued my Thai ID card. Does this count as an overstay?

My questions:

1. If I go to Immigration now will I have to pay the 20,000 baht overstay? Will I be “sent home” to the Netherlands?

2. If I have to go back to the Netherlands because of an emergency, I presume I cannot use my Dutch passport [to leave Thailand] because it shows an overstay of six weeks, and I will have to pay 20,000 baht at the airport. Is that the case?

3. It looks as though, whatever happens, I may have to pay the overstay fine? Is that true?

4. If I go back to Europe and get a three-month Thai visa, should I show my Dutch passport or my Thai ID card when entering Thailand?

Ploi, Patong. Wednesday, October 11, 2006

“You certainly will have to pay the overstay fine because you used the Dutch passport to enter Thailand and you still have the immigration stamps and the arrival card in that passport.

The fine will not be just for the six-week period you mention, because the fact that you have since received a Thai ID card does not come under consideration; we check only the immigration date on the stamps in your passport.

So you will have to pay for the overstay period between February 16 and the day you leave – up to a maximum of 20,000 baht.

So, when you have to go back to Europe, you should show both your Dutch passport and your Thai passport and pay the overstay fine of 20,000 baht.

Don’t worry – you will not be “sent home” or blacklisted, because you are a Thai citizen.

When you return again to Thailand, you can enter with your Thai passport, so you do not need to get a visa in the Netherlands. Each time you travel between the Netherlands and Thailand, you should carry both passports. This will make it easier for you.

Just use the Thai passport when you enter Thailand and the Dutch passport when you enter the Netherlands, and show both passports to Immigration at either end.”

Wednesday, October 11, 2006 Pol Capt Krissarat Nuesen of the Phuket Provincial Immigration Office.

Sophon

[Maestro]

But is it realy the case that if you enter on a foreign passport and also have a Thai passport you need to get extensions of stay, etc? ...

Yes, it is necessary.

If someone does acquire thai nationality after entering the country under another nationality(us by exemple)...

In the OP’s case the children did not acquire Thai nationality after entering Thailand. They acquired Thai nationality at birth but whoever was in charge of the children chose not to get them a Thai passport until now, when they are in Thailand. However, this changes nothing regarding their situation: having entered on a US passport they must leave on the US passport. If their permission to stay has expired they are on overstay, even if no fine is collected for it.

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Maestro

[Mario2008]

For administrative purposses leave Thailand on the US passport.

But where is it that they would be on overstay without extensions of stay? The immigration act doesn't provide for this case. Also it defines in art. 4 an alien as any person who is not of Thai nationality under the nationality act. They are no onger aliens. That immigration doesn't like it doesn't make it legal for them to fine for overstay or not doing 90 day reports. It is the same as fining people for not being able to show their ID, without a legal requirement to have them with you at all times that makes it an offence.

[Gumballl]

I don't understand... how will the immigration official know that a child entered the Kingdom on a foreign (US) passport when all you should show him/her is the Thai passport? Don't show the foreign passport!

I've personally been through this before with my child. She exited Thailand and re-entered again on her Thai passport. Not once did I ever produce the US passport. Of course I did have to show her US passport to get the boarding passes and upon arrival in the US.

As for my other child, she did enter the country on her one/only passport (US). My wife asked at Suan Phlu if there would be an overstay fine; the answer was "no" because she is very young (now 14 months old). After her arrival in Thailand, my youngest daughter has been issued a Thai birth certificate. Once again, no reason for the immigration folks to treat her as a farang when she exits the country (even with foreign passport for ID purposes).

Edited September 17, 2008 by Gumballl

[Maestro]

I've personally been through this before with my child. She exited Thailand and re-entered again on her Thai passport. Not once did I ever produce the US passport. Of course I did have to show her US passport to get the boarding passes and upon arrival in the US.

The question, in the context of this thread, is this: did your child enter Thailand on a foreign passport and subsequently exit Thailand on the Thai passport?

As for my other child, she did enter the country on her one/only passport (US). My wife asked at Suan Phlu if there would be an overstay fine; the answer was "no" because she is very young (now 14 months old). After her arrival in Thailand, my youngest daughter has been issued a Thai birth certificate. Once again, no reason for the immigration folks to treat her as a farang when she exits the country (even with foreign passport for ID purposes).

In this case, your child entered Thailand on the foreign passport and left Thailand on the same foreign passport. That’s what has been said in this thread all along: the entry and exit stamps for Thailand must be in the same passport. It has also been said that there is no overstay fine for children, ie there is an overstay, but no fine.

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Maestro