Considering Move To Chiang Mai

[Happyhappy]

Hi Folks:

I am new in this forum but not new to Thailand.

After almost 10 years in Pattaya I am considering a change within Thailand and Chiang Mai is on my list.

Visited the place 4/5 times but not for some years.

What puts me off is I have heard some bad stories re the pollution in CM.

Is it so bad?

Are there places which are reasonable to live in the vicinity that avoids the pollution?

I do however rather like to live in the heart/hub of a place, so perhaps there is no way to avoid ?

I would not consider a move until next year and in the meanwhile can visit a few times and check out places to live and prices etc etc, though speaking to some Thais in Pattaya who are from CM they tell me it has changed a lot in recent years and the prices have increased?

Any views?

I should be appreciative of any opinions from people who live in CM re the pollution issue and if they have any views re good/not so good reasons to move there.

Presumably there are reasonable hospitals if necessary and a decent range of accomodation and other facilities?

Glad to have the benefit of your collective experiences.

Thank you.

Edited September 22, 2008 by Happyhappy

[WinnieTheKhwai]

What puts me off is I have heard some bad stories re the pollution in CM. Is it so bad?

No, it isn't. Chiang Mai gets a bit of the dry season field burning crap every year in March. It lasts for about 3 weeks and results in about 3000 Thaivisa posts during that time. Then it clears.

Are there places which are reasonable to live in the vicinity that avoids the pollution?

No! Because this isn't caused by the city itself you will find that it's region-wide. It's every bit as bad (if not worse) in remote places like Pai or upcountry Chiang Rai!

Something similar applies to the South of Thailand, which gets the crap from Indonesian forest fires.

I do however rather like to live in the heart/hub of a place, so perhaps there is no way to avoid ?

You won't find it any worse or better than anywhere else. Just the temperatures are a bit higher in town.

I would not consider a move until next year and in the meanwhile can visit a few times and check out places to live and prices etc etc, though speaking to some Thais in Pattaya who are from CM they tell me it has changed a lot in recent years and the prices have increased?

Prices increase everywhere, including Pattaya and anywhere else. News at 11.

Presumably there are reasonable hospitals if necessary and a decent range of accomodation and other facilities?

Yup.

Best advice: Don't be here in March and perhaps parts of April; it's hot, dry, uncomfortable and with bad air to boot. It's brilliant the rest of the year.

[PeaceBlondie]

Unless you and your family have long-term or serious respiratory problems, the main pollution here is the number of pollution posts on ThaiVisa in March. The burning of fields is a problem around the world. Southernmost Mexico's burning once caused record air pollution in Houston Texas when it was already almost as polluted as Los Angeles.

I doubt Chiang Mai is as expensive as Pattaya. Several hospitals are excellent - see Mapguy's threads here on Chiang Mai Ram, and Sripat.

[angelal]

What puts me off is I have heard some bad stories re the pollution in CM.

Is it so bad?

Well, if your mode of transportation is a car, then the pollution probably won't bother you. If, however, you rely on tuk-tuks, song-taews, or your own two feet, then yes, the pollution is bad here. I do not own a car, and so I walk or take a tuk-tuk most places I go, and I always come home with stench of car exhaust and motor oil infused throughout my clothes and hair, and lingering on my skin. It's disgusting. In addition to the smell, I have developed chronic sinus problems here. Perhaps others aren't bothered by these things, but in my 6 months' of experience here, the pollution has had a definite negative effect on my enjoyment of this city.

[Priceless]

[...] What puts me off is I have heard some bad stories re the pollution in CM.

Is it so bad?

Are there places which are reasonable to live in the vicinity that avoids the pollution?

I do however rather like to live in the heart/hub of a place, so perhaps there is no way to avoid ? [...]

It all depends on what you are looking at (or for). Below you find some figures and a graph on the particulate matter (PM<10) pollution:

Yearly average

Chiang Mai 47.5 µg/m3

Chon Buri 58.0 µg/m3

I.e. the yearly average in CM is 18% lower.

Worst month of the year

Chiang Mai 105.4 µg/m3 (March)

Chon Buri 79.2 µg/m3 (December)

I.e. Chon Buri is 26% lower.

The average monthly levels look like this:

Draw your own conclusions and make your own decisions. Be aware that there are people, on ThaiVisa and elsewhere, that for reasons of their own try to paint a picture of Chiang Mai as a pollution h*ll. This is simply not true, even though the situation could of course be much better, just like in the rest of the world

/ Priceless

[brahmburgers]

sounds like you're more of a city mouse than a country mouse, to wit; "I do however rather like to live in the heart/hub of a place,....."

It's a matter of trade offs. If you want to live downtown, then yes, there's no doubt it's a stuffy, noisy city - like others in Thailand. Chiang Mai's downtown road grid is set up so that if you want to drive north, you've got to spend about 30% of your fossil fuels driving south. Same if you're going east, much of your trip forces you west, and so on.

I'm partial to Chiang Rai myself, but it too is becoming more cityfied week by week. There is no town in Thailand which has innovative planning that allows for ample parks, reasonable traffic patterns, non-fossil fuel public transport, etc. Maybe it will start in 50 years, but for the foreseeable future, Thai town planners are either out to lunch or stuck in the mindset that more buildings + more traffic = progress. ......That's assuming there's even any planning to begin with.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

What puts me off is I have heard some bad stories re the pollution in CM.

Is it so bad?

Glad to have the benefit of your collective experiences.

Thank you.

The worst times are Feb 15 to about May 1st. Each year the rains start at different times. Last hot season was pretty good Air Q. The year before quite bad in those months. If you can travel during those months then the rest of the year has plenty of rain to keep the particulates reasonable but not great. The area is a basin where car emissions, rubbish burning, outdoor restaurants emissions etc build up to form a funky hazy soup. The govt doesn't even measure the most dangerous small particles like PM<2.5 and fuel byproducts like Benzine, dioxin emitted from petrol stations and exhaust etc.

It's all relative. If a person smokes, drinks and generally isn't health conscious then the pollution is not so noticeable or life changing. If your into really taking care of yourself and outdoor endurance sports then it's dicey. In general use common sense. Exercise away from vehicles etc early in the morning. Don't live near major roads. Try to minimize time spent on or near major roads. Drive in a closed car if possible etc. Keep the rest of your game tip top. Don't smoke or drink (as much). Eat healthier and cleaner. Consider an indoor air filter or lots of plants.

It's manageable with some strategic holiday travel and by optimizing your day to day habits. Really not a reason to avoid CM but worth considering.

[Ulysses G.]

It's all relative. If a person smokes, drinks and generally isn't health conscious then the pollution is not so noticeable or life changing. If your into really taking care of yourself and outdoor endurance sports then it's dicey.

Although I'm a big, fat slob, I do lots of swimming, cycling and other excercise. I don't smoke and only drink one or two beers per week. I hardly ever notice pollution in Chiang Mai and find that very few residents or tourists do, but I did stop running around the moat many years ago because of gasoline and diesel fumes and I would not recommend it

My view is that people who are neurotic about pollution or have actual medical or lung problems should stay away from Chiang Mai during the beginning of hot season and should avoid lots of traffic at all times, but are usually OK otherwise.

Edited September 22, 2008 by Ulysses G.

[KevinHunt]

It's all relative. If a person smokes, drinks and generally isn't health conscious then the pollution is not so noticeable or life changing. If your into really taking care of yourself and outdoor endurance sports then it's dicey.

Although I'm a big, fat slob, I do lots of swimming, cycling and other excercise. I don't smoke and only drink one or two beers per week. I hardly ever notice pollution in Chiang Mai and find that very few residents or tourists do, but I did stop running around the moat many years ago because of gasoline and diesel fumes and I would not recommend it

My view is that people who are neurotic about pollution or have actual medical or lung problems should stay away from Chiang Mai during the beginning of hot season and should avoid lots of traffic at all times, but are usually OK otherwise.

I agree and I'm not a big, fat slob!.

By the way, what would you be like if you didn't 'do lots of swimming, cycling and .... other excercise '?

You do realise that the proverbial can of worms is firmly re-opened. This forum needed livening up anyway.

[Ulysses G.]

That is easy. I would be even fatter, but maybe have some major medical conditions as well. I'm hoping that my efforts have protected my health to some extent.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

It's all relative. If a person smokes, drinks and generally isn't health conscious then the pollution is not so noticeable or life changing. If your into really taking care of yourself and outdoor endurance sports then it's dicey.

Although I'm a big, fat slob, I do lots of swimming, cycling and other excercise. I don't smoke and only drink one or two beers per week. I hardly ever notice pollution in Chiang Mai and find that very few residents or tourists do, but I did stop running around the moat many years ago because of gasoline and diesel fumes and I would not recommend it

My view is that people who are neurotic about pollution or have actual medical or lung problems should stay away from Chiang Mai during the beginning of hot season and should avoid lots of traffic at all times, but are usually OK otherwise.

I should have qualified it as "trained" or "accomplished" or "higher performance" athlete. I bicycle up to PhuPing, Doi Pui etc many mornings and it is noticeable. The carbon monoxide builds up in the bloodstream which dulls the mind(headache) and binds oxygen from reaching vital organs , muscles maintain lactic acid longer, lungs and sinus irritate easier. Dehydration is more of an issue as the body needs more water to clean itself. Back to my original point is that if your tuned into your body and health then its noticeable even in the wet season.

Flopping around in a pool like whale seal or pedaling a couple of flat km's was not exactly what I was talking about. Some people smoke cigarettes and realize immediately that it's going to kill them and they stop while others puff on them 24/7 and think they are doing no harm. Different people do have different levels of self health perception.

Labeling someone as being neurotic because they are not 20+ KG overweight, high BP or looking like a 100km of bad road is the product of a complicated personality. Some people have higher standards of personal health. Flame on !!!!!

[Jingthing]

The current everyday experience (great, I can breathe today) masks the potential long term health effects of living in a highly polluted city like Chiang Mai. What I am taking about are the numerous articles you can find about the much higher than average rates of respiratory disease in CM. There is also the carcinogenic potential of these air particles. So this is not only a concern for people who already have lung diseases. I think Pattaya has cleaner air than Chiang Mai, partly because of the ocean breezes. It shouldn't be the only decision factor in deciding Pattaya v. CM, but it is an important one for alot of us.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2007/03/02...al_30028253.php

Edited September 22, 2008 by Jingthing

[Priceless]

The current everyday experience (great, I can breathe today) masks the potential long term health effects of living in a highly polluted city like Chiang Mai. What I am taking about are the numerous articles you can find about the much higher than average rates of respiratory disease in CM. There is also the carcinogenic potential of these air particles. So this is not only a concern for people who already have lung diseases. I think Pattaya has cleaner air than Chiang Mai, partly because of the ocean breezes. It shouldn't be the only decision factor in deciding Pattaya v. CM, but it is an important one for alot of us.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2007/03/02...al_30028253.php

I was just waiting for somebody to come along with an article or the likes from early March of 2007. That month was really bad, but the whole dry season of that year was also a freak occurrence. Chiang Mai did not get even 1 mm of rain from late October of 2006 to late April of 2007. To make things even worse, we had a very persistent inversion over the Chiang Mai basin from late February until early April. In other words, that was an extreme combination of negative circumstances.

Unfortunately the Pollution Control Department does not measure pollution levels in Pattaya proper, which is why I commented on Chon Buri as the nearest approximation. The truth is that, measured by yearly averages, Chiang Mai has among the best air quality in Thailand. However, the month of March of most years is reallly bad, though not by a long shot the worst in Thailand.

This leads me to the conclusion that I have posted many times before: If you suffer from some kind of acute respiratory problem/disease, such as asthma, Chiang Mai is probably not for you, at least during March. If, on the other hand, your worry is about more long-term effects such as cancer, Chiang Mai is probably a very good choice for you.

/ Priceless

PS I have read a number of articles about respiratory disease in Chiang Mai. With my, admittedly limited, statistical background I would venture to say that none of these articles would hold up to proper scientific scrutiny. Some of them are honestly so absurd that I somehow doubt that they were meant seriously.

[T_Dog]

It's all relative. If a person smokes, drinks and generally isn't health conscious then the pollution is not so noticeable or life changing. If your into really taking care of yourself and outdoor endurance sports then it's dicey.

Although I'm a big, fat slob, I do lots of swimming, cycling and other excercise. I don't smoke and only drink one or two beers per week. I hardly ever notice pollution in Chiang Mai and find that very few residents or tourists do, but I did stop running around the moat many years ago because of gasoline and diesel fumes and I would not recommend it

My view is that people who are neurotic about pollution or have actual medical or lung problems should stay away from Chiang Mai during the beginning of hot season and should avoid lots of traffic at all times, but are usually OK otherwise.

Happy Happy: I really had to laugh at this post because it is so impossible to NOT notice the pollution during the burning season. But there is a good point here that you have to be here in person to see it, to breath it, and then to decide if it is too bad or not. It also varies from year to year. The local conditions {your neighbors burning plastic bags for example} can also affect this greatly. The city of Chiang Mai proper has made great progess in limiting burning, but the outlying areas still burn like crazy. Come enjoy Chiang Mai and judge for yourself. It is a great area and some compromises are necessary, but only you can judge it based on your needs and what you experience. Best to you.

[KevinHunt]

[Jingthing]

This leads me to the conclusion that I have posted many times before: If you suffer from some kind of acute respiratory problem/disease, such as asthma, Chiang Mai is probably not for you,

Bad air conditions CAUSE such medical conditions in people who don't already have them. That was my point and it isn't at all medically controversial that this is the case. There was just an item on the news about how polluted the area is around the new Yankee stadium is in New York, they call it asthma alley. The implication is that many people who live for a long time with bad air develop respiratory disease, including emphysema and lung cancer. Obvious, huh?

Edited September 22, 2008 by Jingthing

[Ulysses G.]

Flopping around in a pool like whale seal or pedaling a couple of flat km's was not exactly what I was talking about. Some people smoke cigarettes and realize immediately that it's going to kill them and they stop while others puff on them 24/7 and think they are doing no harm. Different people do have different levels of self health perception.

Labeling someone as being neurotic because they are not 20+ KG overweight, high BP or looking like a 100km of bad road is the product of a complicated personality. Some people have higher standards of personal health. Flame on !!!!!

I thought that I had a "higher standard" of personal health before I came down with Rheumatoid Arthritis at 25 years old, but it is pretty hard to keep the high intensity exercise up when you are in excruciating pain 24 hours a day much of the time and it is pretty difficult to do anything about hereditary diseases, no matter how enlightened you think you are about health before they strike.

I kept the weight off for 10 years, but went through a spell where it was difficult to even walk and that was the end of being skinny.

Let's hope that you don't have to go through a similar experience before you realize that sometimes we have to deal with the cards that we are given.

[ThaiPauly]

Hey HH,

Really hope you decide to come, we can have a bit of banter about the footie in a pub sometime.

[Priceless]

This leads me to the conclusion that I have posted many times before: If you suffer from some kind of acute respiratory problem/disease, such as asthma, Chiang Mai is probably not for you,

Bad air conditions CAUSE such medical conditions in people who don't already have them. That was my point and it isn't at all medically controversial that this is the case. There was just an item on the news about how polluted the area is around the new Yankee stadium is in New York, they call it asthma alley. The implication is that many people who live for a long time with bad air develop respiratory disease, including emphysema and lung cancer. Obvious, huh?

Since I specifically mentioned asthma, let me quote from the Harvard University Gazette ( http://www.hno.harvard.edu/gazette/2006/03.16/01-asthma.html ):

"Researchers uncover cause of asthma

Natural killer cells leave people breathless

By William J. Cromie

Harvard News Office

Medical experts have been baffled by what causes asthma. Most of them favor the idea that it stems from "helper" cells that have gone awry. But researchers at Harvard Medical School (HMS) have come up with convincing evidence that the answer lies in a special type of natural "killer" cell. [...]"

Air pollution can definitely trigger an asthma attack, but it does not cause asthma as such. High average pollution levels will definitely over time increase the risk for e.g. lung cancer and certain heart and circulatory conditions.

My point in several posts has simply been that Chiang Mai in fact has among Thailand's best air quality, i.e. lowest pollution levels, with the (important) exception of the end of the dry season, normally the end of February until early April. If you are unlucky enough to live e.g. in the Din Daeng area of Bangkok, you subject yourself to average pollution levels that are more than 40% higher than those in Chiang Mai!

/ Priceless

[el jefe]

It's pretty easy to find links to respected organizations that have differing viewpoints. According to both the World Health Organization and the Mayo Clinic, air pollution is a possible cause of asthma.

http://www.who.int/respiratory/asthma/causes/en/index.html

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/asthma/DS...DSECTION=causes

In most years Chiang Mai's air quality is fine for all but 4-6 weeks. In a few years though it was much longer. Just as 2007 was unusually bad, 2008 was unusually good. If you have the flexibility to leave CM in March, you should be fine.

There is one other reason not to come though -- there are already too many farang here.

This leads me to the conclusion that I have posted many times before: If you suffer from some kind of acute respiratory problem/disease, such as asthma, Chiang Mai is probably not for you,

Bad air conditions CAUSE such medical conditions in people who don't already have them. That was my point and it isn't at all medically controversial that this is the case. There was just an item on the news about how polluted the area is around the new Yankee stadium is in New York, they call it asthma alley. The implication is that many people who live for a long time with bad air develop respiratory disease, including emphysema and lung cancer. Obvious, huh?

Since I specifically mentioned asthma, let me quote from the Harvard University Gazette ( http://www.hno.harvard.edu/gazette/2006/03.16/01-asthma.html ):

"Researchers uncover cause of asthma

Natural killer cells leave people breathless

By William J. Cromie

Harvard News Office

Medical experts have been baffled by what causes asthma. Most of them favor the idea that it stems from "helper" cells that have gone awry. But researchers at Harvard Medical School (HMS) have come up with convincing evidence that the answer lies in a special type of natural "killer" cell. [...]"

Air pollution can definitely trigger an asthma attack, but it does not cause asthma as such. High average pollution levels will definitely over time increase the risk for e.g. lung cancer and certain heart and circulatory conditions.

My point in several posts has simply been that Chiang Mai in fact has among Thailand's best air quality, i.e. lowest pollution levels, with the (important) exception of the end of the dry season, normally the end of February until early April. If you are unlucky enough to live e.g. in the Din Daeng area of Bangkok, you subject yourself to average pollution levels that are more than 40% higher than those in Chiang Mai!

/ Priceless

[Mapguy]

Dear Happyhappy (and anyone else who wants to move here),

I have been accused of boring people to death on this topic. I'll try not to do that now. There are many threads on this topic on this forum. Just do some active term searches. Here, on this thread, I find some very well-written and informative posts expressing different points of view. Anyway, well-expressed or not, what you find pretty much sums up the discussion so far.

I write this message after enjoying one of the most beautiful days of a long and, generally, beautifully clear rainy season. But, in addition to an ongoing problem with urban pollution caused in major part by burning petroleum products, there is indeed a serious seasonal problem here (point already well presented above).

One new point is my complaint about the offhand advice to just avoid Chiang Mai during the "awful season." Well, that's true enough, but it does not unfortunately speak to the genuine misery of many regular folks who do not have the wherewithal to "summer" here and winter "there." Many of them suffer greatly in the bad weeks of the awful season.

And no one seems to have mentioned the "business agenda;" that is, talking about pollution is bad for tourism so don't bring it up!!

Edited September 23, 2008 by Mapguy

[Priceless]

It's pretty easy to find links to respected organizations that have differing viewpoints. According to both the World Health Organization and the Mayo Clinic, air pollution is a possible cause of asthma.

http://www.who.int/respiratory/asthma/causes/en/index.html

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/asthma/DS...DSECTION=causes

In most years Chiang Mai's air quality is fine for all but 4-6 weeks. In a few years though it was much longer. Just as 2007 was unusually bad, 2008 was unusually good. If you have the flexibility to leave CM in March, you should be fine.

Thank you for a couple of interesting links. I have no medical training or experience, so I should probably refrain completely from posting on this subject, but here goes anyway. I somehow get the impression that we (and the articles) are talking about two different, albeit related things:

- One is the reasons behind the chronic (or latent) condition of asthma. These seem to me to be rather poorly understood by science at its present stage, though there is obviously agreement that genetic factors are involved, along with others.

- The other question is what triggers an acute asthma attack. This is where pollution is undoubtedly an important factor, as well as e.g. dust mites, tobacco smoke and many others. Yet another site that discusses these factors can be found here: http://www.healthinsite.gov.au/topics/Causes_of_Asthma

What my earlier "crusade" has been directed at is the number of people that imply, or say outright, that Chiang Mai is one of the most polluted places in Thailand, if not the world. This is nothing but an outright lie, with no other effect or purpose than to hurt all the people who are directly or indirectly dependent on the tourist trade (which I am not).

/ Priceless

[chiangmaiexpat]

What puts me off is I have heard some bad stories re the pollution in CM. Is it so bad?

Yes, pollution is bad during the peak days (usually in March). I get a headache and sometimes nausea from it. I've been here since 2005. It was really bad in 2007 (about 14-20 peak days in a row). This year it was quite tolerable with only one or two headache days. However, the pollution is seasonal, and during the rest of the year, the air quality is generally fine. If it wasn't limited to a few days per year I would not be here anymore.

Are there places which are reasonable to live in the vicinity that avoids the pollution?

No.

They tell me it has changed a lot in recent years and the prices have increased? Any views?

Sure it has changed. In the old days you could buy a rai of land for peanuts. Most houses were made of wood. Many streets were dirt roads. Now land prices have gone up, the city has an increasing number of boutique hotels, an extensive road network, etc. etc. It's still cheaper than most other cities in Thailand. It might even be the cheapest among Thai cities.

I should be appreciative of any opinions from people who live in CM re the pollution issue and if they have any views re good/not so good reasons to move there.

Quality of life is generally very good. Excellent place for family living. Very green. Good choice of international schools, and good hospitals. Shopping is decent though not as good as in Patty or Bangkok. Excellent opportunities for outdoor living. Few traffic jams. Laid-back and friendly people (though not the most productive). Nice mountain scenery, pleasant climate especially in the winter. Cheap construction costs and a good choice of reasonably priced rental homes.

The only negative (beisdes the pollution) is the almost complete lack of cultural events, but I guess that comes with the "country life".

Cheers, CMX

Edited September 24, 2008 by chiangmaiexpat

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Bad air conditions CAUSE such medical conditions in people who don't already have them. That was my point and it isn't at all medically controversial that this is the case.

So all the more reason to stay in Chiang Mai and not Pattaya or Bangkok, seeing that the yearly average here is much better.

And as per my earlier advice, don't be here in mid March to early April; a hot, dry and uncomfortable time anyway.

[Ulysses G.]

And as per my earlier advice, don't be here in mid March to early April; a hot, dry and uncomfortable time anyway.

Very good point. Hot season sucks in Thailand - with pollution or without.

However, IMHO, the Sang Kran - water-fight - Holiday in April is one of the funnest things to do anywhere - for the young at heart - and is a good way to cool down. Old grumps need not come outside.

Also, any smoke is usually gone by then.

[PeaceBlondie]

I lived here for 26 months, then 12 in Hua Hin, and have been back here for over 25 months more. Moving back here was a good move. Traffic flows well here, esp. on a motorbike. People are either friendly or leave you alone, unless you go looking for trouble.

[sassienie]

Yes, the pollution it very bad here in Chiang Mai.

[Mestizo]

And as per my earlier advice, don't be here in mid March to early April; a hot, dry and uncomfortable time anyway.

Very good point. Hot season sucks in Thailand - with pollution or without.

However, IMHO, the Sang Kran - water-fight - Holiday in April is one of the funnest things to do anywhere - for the young at heart - and is a good way to cool down. Old grumps need not come outside.

Also, any smoke is usually gone by then.

I disagree with the Hot Season comments. That's my favorite time of year here! Nice warm sun, dry, not too humid. Fantastic! I on the other hand, really dread the rainy season. Seems to drag on and on, and gets increasingly depressing by the day.

I do agree with your opinion on Songkran, however. I would happily trade 2 Thanksgivings and 3 Christmases for a single Songkran! One of the most funnest things I have ever experienced! Here in my office we started discussing and making plans for next year's Songkran about 2 months ago!

I also agree with your feelings regarding the pollution. It is WAY over blow. Its really not all that bad. Sure there were a few days where it was a bit hazy, but it doesn't even come close to comparing to the pollution around Bangkok, Houston, DC, and numerous other large cities around the world. I think that its probably the same grumps who constantly whine about Songkran being dangerous, etc, who are also hugely blowing the pollution thing out of proportion. Definitely, definitely not worth worrying so much over or avoiding Chiang Mai for!

[Agenda]

I moved from Pattaya to Chiang Mai recently. It's much better here!

But air is dirtier, I believe. Especially Huad Kaew road during traffic light stops I hardly cannot breathe there and sometimes get headache.

[sean2551]

Hi Folks:

I am new in this forum but not new to Thailand.

After almost 10 years in Pattaya I am considering a change within Thailand and Chiang Mai is on my list.

Visited the place 4/5 times but not for some years.

What puts me off is I have heard some bad stories re the pollution in CM.

Is it so bad?

Are there places which are reasonable to live in the vicinity that avoids the pollution?

I do however rather like to live in the heart/hub of a place, so perhaps there is no way to avoid ?

I would not consider a move until next year and in the meanwhile can visit a few times and check out places to live and prices etc etc, though speaking to some Thais in Pattaya who are from CM they tell me it has changed a lot in recent years and the prices have increased?

Any views?

I should be appreciative of any opinions from people who live in CM re the pollution issue and if they have any views re good/not so good reasons to move there.

Presumably there are reasonable hospitals if necessary and a decent range of accomodation and other facilities?

Glad to have the benefit of your collective experiences.

Thank you.

chiangmai isnt as bad as bangkok aye

i go every 5 months

chiangmai is alot better than bangkok in many ways

chiangmai is my second home

since i have thai family in chiangmai in and lamphun and lamphang and mae hon song

i love chiangmai

im heading back home in april next year

ill be staying for 6 months maybe 1 year

i give u word of advise

when u at the bars or shop or restaurant and police want buy u drink exept it

and buy him a large set u will make friends very fast

and get to know tuktuk drivers

once u do all that u wil have no dramers about getting around

i attached a pic of me and my friend

she works for big goverment

her boss is tuksin