Considering Move To Chiang Mai

[sean2551]

Yes, the pollution it very bad here in Chiang Mai.

there is no pollution in chiangmai compared to BANGKOK

chiangmai is nothing to bangkok

i have no problem breathing in chiangmai

i eat everywere in chiangmai go everywere

i go eating were thai"s go

no farang wauld eat wat i eat

isaan food

noodle soupe with beaf blood

[Blinky Bill]

Yes, pollution is bad during the peak days (usually in March). I get a headache and sometimes nausea from it. I've been here since 2005. It was really bad in 2007 (about 14-20 peak days in a row). This year it was quite tolerable with only one or two headache days. However, the pollution is seasonal, and during the rest of the year, the air quality is generally fine. If it wasn't limited to a few days per year I would not be here anymore.

chiangmaiexpat, do your headaches coincide with your menstrual cycles?

There are plenty of good drugs available to solve your little problem.

[chiang mai]

There is no air pollution problem in Chiang Mai, non what so ever and there never has been. The reams that have been written over the years to the contrary on this subject are simply part of a plot to keep tourist and expat numbers down.

[Flatouthruthefog]

There is no air pollution problem in Chiang Mai, non what so ever and there never has been. The reams that have been written over the years to the contrary on this subject are simply part of a plot to keep tourist and expat numbers down.

Plot has worked, hasn't it??

[gpdjohn]

Yes, the pollution it very bad here in Chiang Mai.

there is no pollution in chiangmai compared to BANGKOK

chiangmai is nothing to bangkok

i have no problem breathing in chiangmai

i eat everywere in chiangmai go everywere

i go eating were thai"s go

no farang wauld eat wat i eat

isaan food

noodle soupe with beaf blood

I kouldt ageer mure!

[bunta71]

GPDJohn...you seem sometimes to be a trouble maker/ sophisticated pompous a** Brit. Is that where you are from??

[Steve2UK]

GPDJohn...you seem sometimes to be a trouble maker/ sophisticated pompous a** Brit. Is that where you are from??

Bunta - I hope you're not suggesting it takes being a Brit to be that!

Plenty of evidence on here to the contrary........

[chiang mai]

GPDJohn...you seem sometimes to be a trouble maker/ sophisticated pompous a** Brit. Is that where you are from??

Got an axe to grind with Brits it seems, not good, especially coming from an American.

[Blinky Bill]

Got an axe to grind with Brits it seems, not good, especially coming from an American.

Bunta - I hope you're not suggesting it takes being a Brit to be that!

Plenty of evidence on here to the contrary........

GPDJohn...you seem sometimes to be a trouble maker/ sophisticated pompous a** Brit. Is that where you are from??

Come guys......toughen up. Your hides are too thin.

[Mestizo]

And this thread is closing in 5.... 4.... 3.... 2....

[gpdjohn]

Got an axe to grind with Brits it seems, not good, especially coming from an American.

Bunta - I hope you're not suggesting it takes being a Brit to be that!

Plenty of evidence on here to the contrary........

GPDJohn...you seem sometimes to be a trouble maker/ sophisticated pompous a** Brit. Is that where you are from??

Come guys......toughen up. Your hides are too thin.

It's alrighty there Blinky.

I'm staying strong...a few tears were shed, but now I'm fine.

Bunta- No, not a "Brit"...my family tree has more than one branch.

Back on track here..

I have no problems breathing in CM, haven't noticed anymore polution than any other city where there is no pollution controls in place.

Weather is nice all the time. I keep hearing how hot it is here...for the ones who have visited Saudi in August will know what hot really is...this ain't it.

Very pleasant place to live.

I think you will really enjoy it...

I do.

[bunta71]

Got an axe to grind with Brits it seems, not good, especially coming from an American.

Bunta - I hope you're not suggesting it takes being a Brit to be that!

Plenty of evidence on here to the contrary........

GPDJohn...you seem sometimes to be a trouble maker/ sophisticated pompous a** Brit. Is that where you are from??

Come guys......toughen up. Your hides are too thin.

It's alrighty there Blinky.

I'm staying strong...a few tears were shed, but now I'm fine.

Bunta- No, not a "Brit"...my family tree has more than one branch.

Back on track here..

I have no problems breathing in CM, haven't noticed anymore polution than any other city where there is no pollution controls in place.

Weather is nice all the time. I keep hearing how hot it is here...for the ones who have visited Saudi in August will know what hot really is...this ain't it.

Very pleasant place to live.

I think you will really enjoy it...

I do.

Not to worry John... Had just been observing the hundreds of American bashing posts mostly on the general forum and thought I would stir the pot for entertainment purposes only. We are not all from Texass, but thought I would act like I am....

[Steve2UK]

Got an axe to grind with Brits it seems, not good, especially coming from an American.

Bunta - I hope you're not suggesting it takes being a Brit to be that!

Plenty of evidence on here to the contrary........

GPDJohn...you seem sometimes to be a trouble maker/ sophisticated pompous a** Brit. Is that where you are from??

Come guys......toughen up. Your hides are too thin.

Just joshing - well, I know 2 of us are.....

[chiang mai]

These discussions about poor air quality in Chiang Mai are so predictable yet so inconclusive - one group suggests they have bad experiences then the statisticians come along and present lies, I mean statistics, showing they must be mistaken. Inevitably the CM expat group becomes defensive and sees the other group as having called their baby ugly - not so, it's a fact, Chiang Mai air quality can be very dangerous and no amount of charts showing PM10 levels will change that fact. But, different people have different tolerances and different perceptions of what is acceptable or not. If you want to try living in CM, do so and I sincerely hope you enjoy it and remain unaffected by the poor air quality. But if you find out later that these things are a problem for you personally, you were forewarned that might happen. Why, it's a bit like wanting to vote for George Bush during the last election, 79% of the international community advised against it but agreed nevertheless that it was an individuals right to do so if they so wished.

[gpdjohn]

These discussions about poor air quality in Chiang Mai are so predictable yet so inconclusive - one group suggests they have bad experiences then the statisticians come along and present lies, I mean statistics, showing they must be mistaken. Inevitably the CM expat group becomes defensive and sees the other group as having called their baby ugly - not so, it's a fact, Chiang Mai air quality can be very dangerous and no amount of charts showing PM10 levels will change that fact. But, different people have different tolerances and different perceptions of what is acceptable or not. If you want to try living in CM, do so and I sincerely hope you enjoy it and remain unaffected by the poor air quality. But if you find out later that these things are a problem for you personally, you were forewarned that might happen. Why, it's a bit like wanting to vote for George Bush during the last election, 79% of the international community advised against it but agreed nevertheless that it was an individuals right to do so if they so wished.

[Priceless]

These discussions about poor air quality in Chiang Mai are so predictable yet so inconclusive - one group suggests they have bad experiences then the statisticians come along and present lies, I mean statistics, showing they must be mistaken. Inevitably the CM expat group becomes defensive and sees the other group as having called their baby ugly - not so, it's a fact, Chiang Mai air quality can be very dangerous and no amount of charts showing PM10 levels will change that fact. But, different people have different tolerances and different perceptions of what is acceptable or not. If you want to try living in CM, do so and I sincerely hope you enjoy it and remain unaffected by the poor air quality. But if you find out later that these things are a problem for you personally, you were forewarned that might happen. Why, it's a bit like wanting to vote for George Bush during the last election, 79% of the international community advised against it but agreed nevertheless that it was an individuals right to do so if they so wished.

I seem to remember that you left Chiang Mai last year and moved to Phuket at least partly out of fear of the air quality. It is therefore understandable that you have a need to reassure yourself that you made the right decision.

However, I think it is a bit irresponsible to do this on a public forum by presenting unsubstantiated and false (or at least very exaggerated) statements like "it's a fact, Chiang Mai air quality can be very dangerous". That statement is correct in so far as the air is dangerous in practically all cities of the world. The World Health Organisation (WHO), in their latest recommendations ( http://www.euro.who.int/Document/E90038.pdf ) state (in simplified wording) that the lowest level of yearly average particulate matter pollution, where adverse effects have been shown, is 20 µg/m3, i.e. this is what one can see as a "safe" level. Any level above that is to some degree "dangerous". There are however very few cities in the world with pollution levels lower than that.

I think hardly anybody on this forum has denied that the peak levels, that often occur towards the end of the dry season, can be detrimental to your health, in particular for people with pre-existing respiratory problems of some kind. However, if you want to be absolutely sure of avoiding negative health effects from air pollution, you will probably have to leave Asia. Among reasonably sized cities, I would recommend e.g. Vancouver (Canada), Perth (Australia), Cape Town (South Africa) or Stockholm (Sweden) that all have average yearly levels within the WHO Air Quality Guideline. If, however, you for some reason want (or need) to live in Thailand, Chiang Mai is one of the best places from an air quality point of view, with the exception of the above-mentioned peak period.

BTW, the average pollution level in Phuket is slightly worse than in Chiang Mai, though the difference is hardly significant.

/ Priceless

[chiang mai]

These discussions about poor air quality in Chiang Mai are so predictable yet so inconclusive - one group suggests they have bad experiences then the statisticians come along and present lies, I mean statistics, showing they must be mistaken. Inevitably the CM expat group becomes defensive and sees the other group as having called their baby ugly - not so, it's a fact, Chiang Mai air quality can be very dangerous and no amount of charts showing PM10 levels will change that fact. But, different people have different tolerances and different perceptions of what is acceptable or not. If you want to try living in CM, do so and I sincerely hope you enjoy it and remain unaffected by the poor air quality. But if you find out later that these things are a problem for you personally, you were forewarned that might happen. Why, it's a bit like wanting to vote for George Bush during the last election, 79% of the international community advised against it but agreed nevertheless that it was an individuals right to do so if they so wished.

I seem to remember that you left Chiang Mai last year and moved to Phuket at least partly out of fear of the air quality. It is therefore understandable that you have a need to reassure yourself that you made the right decision.

However, I think it is a bit irresponsible to do this on a public forum by presenting unsubstantiated and false (or at least very exaggerated) statements like "it's a fact, Chiang Mai air quality can be very dangerous". That statement is correct in so far as the air is dangerous in practically all cities of the world. The World Health Organisation (WHO), in their latest recommendations ( http://www.euro.who.int/Document/E90038.pdf ) state (in simplified wording) that the lowest level of yearly average particulate matter pollution, where adverse effects have been shown, is 20 µg/m3, i.e. this is what one can see as a "safe" level. Any level above that is to some degree "dangerous". There are however very few cities in the world with pollution levels lower than that.

I think hardly anybody on this forum has denied that the peak levels, that often occur towards the end of the dry season, can be detrimental to your health, in particular for people with pre-existing respiratory problems of some kind. However, if you want to be absolutely sure of avoiding negative health effects from air pollution, you will probably have to leave Asia. Among reasonably sized cities, I would recommend e.g. Vancouver (Canada), Perth (Australia), Cape Town (South Africa) or Stockholm (Sweden) that all have average yearly levels within the WHO Air Quality Guideline. If, however, you for some reason want (or need) to live in Thailand, Chiang Mai is one of the best places from an air quality point of view, with the exception of the above-mentioned peak period.

BTW, the average pollution level in Phuket is slightly worse than in Chiang Mai, though the difference is hardly significant.

/ Priceless

Priceless, your baby is not ugly so don't get so defensive but it is a fact that the air quality in Chiang Mai CAN be dangerous and there is nothing irresponsible about saying that, quite the contrary. Look, I balanced my post by saying the pollution problem is potentially different things for different people so everyone can go try it if they wish. And yes, I left CM because I was tired of getting sick with respiratory problems and it is also true that in the year and a half that I have lived in Phuket I have not suffered one illness in that time - I therefore do not need reminding of those things but I reckon they are useful things to point out to others, now that you have raised the subject.

[Jingthing]

I find it amazing that people think bad air ONLY effects people with pre-existing respiratory problems. Are those who do not YET have such problems not human beings? How do you think health problems develop in the first place?

[lannarebirth]

These discussions about poor air quality in Chiang Mai are so predictable yet so inconclusive - one group suggests they have bad experiences then the statisticians come along and present lies, I mean statistics, showing they must be mistaken. Inevitably the CM expat group becomes defensive and sees the other group as having called their baby ugly - not so, it's a fact, Chiang Mai air quality can be very dangerous and no amount of charts showing PM10 levels will change that fact. But, different people have different tolerances and different perceptions of what is acceptable or not. If you want to try living in CM, do so and I sincerely hope you enjoy it and remain unaffected by the poor air quality. But if you find out later that these things are a problem for you personally, you were forewarned that might happen. Why, it's a bit like wanting to vote for George Bush during the last election, 79% of the international community advised against it but agreed nevertheless that it was an individuals right to do so if they so wished.

I seem to remember that you left Chiang Mai last year and moved to Phuket at least partly out of fear of the air quality. It is therefore understandable that you have a need to reassure yourself that you made the right decision.

However, I think it is a bit irresponsible to do this on a public forum by presenting unsubstantiated and false (or at least very exaggerated) statements like "it's a fact, Chiang Mai air quality can be very dangerous". That statement is correct in so far as the air is dangerous in practically all cities of the world. The World Health Organisation (WHO), in their latest recommendations ( http://www.euro.who.int/Document/E90038.pdf ) state (in simplified wording) that the lowest level of yearly average particulate matter pollution, where adverse effects have been shown, is 20 µg/m3, i.e. this is what one can see as a "safe" level. Any level above that is to some degree "dangerous". There are however very few cities in the world with pollution levels lower than that.

I think hardly anybody on this forum has denied that the peak levels, that often occur towards the end of the dry season, can be detrimental to your health, in particular for people with pre-existing respiratory problems of some kind. However, if you want to be absolutely sure of avoiding negative health effects from air pollution, you will probably have to leave Asia. Among reasonably sized cities, I would recommend e.g. Vancouver (Canada), Perth (Australia), Cape Town (South Africa) or Stockholm (Sweden) that all have average yearly levels within the WHO Air Quality Guideline. If, however, you for some reason want (or need) to live in Thailand, Chiang Mai is one of the best places from an air quality point of view, with the exception of the above-mentioned peak period.

BTW, the average pollution level in Phuket is slightly worse than in Chiang Mai, though the difference is hardly significant.

/ Priceless

Priceless, your baby is not ugly so don't get so defensive but it is a fact that the air quality in Chiang Mai CAN be dangerous and there is nothing irresponsible about saying that, quite the contrary. Look, I balanced my post by saying the pollution problem is potentially different things for different people so everyone can go try it if they wish. And yes, I left CM because I was tired of getting sick with respiratory problems and it is also true that in the year and a half that I have lived in Phuket I have not suffered one illness in that time - I therefore do not need reminding of those things but I reckon they are useful things to point out to others, now that you have raised the subject.

Made all the more strange by posting (since leaving) inquiries of condos which may be for sale in Chiang Mai. Curious.

[chiang mai]

These discussions about poor air quality in Chiang Mai are so predictable yet so inconclusive - one group suggests they have bad experiences then the statisticians come along and present lies, I mean statistics, showing they must be mistaken. Inevitably the CM expat group becomes defensive and sees the other group as having called their baby ugly - not so, it's a fact, Chiang Mai air quality can be very dangerous and no amount of charts showing PM10 levels will change that fact. But, different people have different tolerances and different perceptions of what is acceptable or not. If you want to try living in CM, do so and I sincerely hope you enjoy it and remain unaffected by the poor air quality. But if you find out later that these things are a problem for you personally, you were forewarned that might happen. Why, it's a bit like wanting to vote for George Bush during the last election, 79% of the international community advised against it but agreed nevertheless that it was an individuals right to do so if they so wished.

I seem to remember that you left Chiang Mai last year and moved to Phuket at least partly out of fear of the air quality. It is therefore understandable that you have a need to reassure yourself that you made the right decision.

However, I think it is a bit irresponsible to do this on a public forum by presenting unsubstantiated and false (or at least very exaggerated) statements like "it's a fact, Chiang Mai air quality can be very dangerous". That statement is correct in so far as the air is dangerous in practically all cities of the world. The World Health Organisation (WHO), in their latest recommendations ( http://www.euro.who.int/Document/E90038.pdf ) state (in simplified wording) that the lowest level of yearly average particulate matter pollution, where adverse effects have been shown, is 20 µg/m3, i.e. this is what one can see as a "safe" level. Any level above that is to some degree "dangerous". There are however very few cities in the world with pollution levels lower than that.

I think hardly anybody on this forum has denied that the peak levels, that often occur towards the end of the dry season, can be detrimental to your health, in particular for people with pre-existing respiratory problems of some kind. However, if you want to be absolutely sure of avoiding negative health effects from air pollution, you will probably have to leave Asia. Among reasonably sized cities, I would recommend e.g. Vancouver (Canada), Perth (Australia), Cape Town (South Africa) or Stockholm (Sweden) that all have average yearly levels within the WHO Air Quality Guideline. If, however, you for some reason want (or need) to live in Thailand, Chiang Mai is one of the best places from an air quality point of view, with the exception of the above-mentioned peak period.

BTW, the average pollution level in Phuket is slightly worse than in Chiang Mai, though the difference is hardly significant.

/ Priceless

Priceless, your baby is not ugly so don't get so defensive but it is a fact that the air quality in Chiang Mai CAN be dangerous and there is nothing irresponsible about saying that, quite the contrary. Look, I balanced my post by saying the pollution problem is potentially different things for different people so everyone can go try it if they wish. And yes, I left CM because I was tired of getting sick with respiratory problems and it is also true that in the year and a half that I have lived in Phuket I have not suffered one illness in that time - I therefore do not need reminding of those things but I reckon they are useful things to point out to others, now that you have raised the subject.

Made all the more strange by posting (since leaving) inquiries of condos which may be for sale in Chiang Mai. Curious.

... killed the cat, but that was part of a different exercise and not one that involved me moving to CM - buying a condo there perhaps but moving there in person, certainly not.

[Ulysses G.]

I seem to remember that you left Chiang Mai last year and moved to Phuket at least partly out of fear of the air quality. It is therefore understandable that you have a need to reassure yourself that you made the right decision.

However, I think it is a bit irresponsible to do this on a public forum by presenting unsubstantiated and false (or at least very exaggerated) statements...

/ Priceless

Priceless strikes again!

[chiang mai]

I seem to remember that you left Chiang Mai last year and moved to Phuket at least partly out of fear of the air quality. It is therefore understandable that you have a need to reassure yourself that you made the right decision.

However, I think it is a bit irresponsible to do this on a public forum by presenting unsubstantiated and false (or at least very exaggerated) statements...

/ Priceless

Priceless strikes again!

UG, what took you so long. How I miss these periodic encounters, they only serve to reinforce that generally most people can't read and understand the written word very well and given your line of work you will probably understand that more than most. If you read the words that follow the dots in your quote you'll get the idea.

[Ulysses G.]

I find it amazing that people think bad air ONLY effects people with pre-existing respiratory problems. Are those who do not YET have such problems not human beings? How do you think health problems develop in the first place?

The point is that the air is normally clean enough to only effect those with pre-existing respiratory problems. Only those in ill health already need avoid Chiang Mai and mostly during a very short period of time each year.

[Ulysses G.]

I seem to remember that you left Chiang Mai last year and moved to Phuket at least partly out of fear of the air quality. It is therefore understandable that you have a need to reassure yourself that you made the right decision.

However, I think it is a bit irresponsible to do this on a public forum by presenting unsubstantiated and false (or at least very exaggerated) statements...

/ Priceless

Priceless strikes again!

UG, what took you so long. How I miss these periodic encounters, they only serve to reinforce that generally most people can't read and understand the written word very well and given your line of work you will probably understand that more than most. If you read the words that follow the dots in your quote you'll get the idea.

"If, however, you for some reason want (or need) to live in Thailand, Chiang Mai is one of the best places from an air quality point of view, with the exception of the above-mentioned peak period.

BTW, the average pollution level in Phuket is slightly worse than in Chiang Mai, though the difference is hardly significant".

[Priceless]

I find it amazing that people think bad air ONLY effects people with pre-existing respiratory problems. Are those who do not YET have such problems not human beings? How do you think health problems develop in the first place?

As I pointed out in my previous post, the World Health Organisation states that any particulate matter pollution above a yearly average of 20 µg/m3 is potentially dangerous. This means that it may cause acute or chronic problems, be they respiratory, cardiac or others.

What I have been trying to explain to those without a desire to understand, or a respect for facts, is that Chiang Mai, with exception for the short-term peak around March, is one of the healthiest places in Thailand (at least from a pollution point of view).

If you still consider the pollution level here too high for you to accept, you had better leave Asia ASAP

/ Priceless

[chiang mai]

I seem to remember that you left Chiang Mai last year and moved to Phuket at least partly out of fear of the air quality. It is therefore understandable that you have a need to reassure yourself that you made the right decision.

However, I think it is a bit irresponsible to do this on a public forum by presenting unsubstantiated and false (or at least very exaggerated) statements...

/ Priceless

Priceless strikes again!

UG, what took you so long. How I miss these periodic encounters, they only serve to reinforce that generally most people can't read and understand the written word very well and given your line of work you will probably understand that more than most. If you read the words that follow the dots in your quote you'll get the idea.

"If, however, you for some reason want (or need) to live in Thailand, Chiang Mai is one of the best places from an air quality point of view, with the exception of the above-mentioned peak period.

BTW, the average pollution level in Phuket is slightly worse than in Chiang Mai, though the difference is hardly significant".

Now now, play fair UG, the words that followed were:

"That statement is correct in so far as the air is dangerous in practically all cities of the world". So what is it, is it a false and unsubstantiated fact or is what you said in quotes! And then followed by:

"I think hardly anybody on this forum has denied that the peak levels, that often occur towards the end of the dry season, can be detrimental to your health". Again, which is it, I mean really, you all sound very confused up there in CM, perhaps it's the air?

[Priceless]

These discussions about poor air quality in Chiang Mai are so predictable yet so inconclusive - one group suggests they have bad experiences then the statisticians come along and present lies, I mean statistics, showing they must be mistaken. [...]

I couldn't agree more about the predictability. One group claims they have bad experiences and I would think that this is quite true. However, a group of 5, 10 or even 25 people is still so small that it completely lacks significance. Furthermore, there may be dozens, or hundreds, of explanations for each individual experience.

What surprises me is that these people claim that their individual, subjective, experiences are "true" whereas extensively documented research by the World Health Organisation, the Thai Pollution Control Department and others is "lies".

Well, there are still people who believe the Earth is flat, so...

/ Priceless

[Ulysses G.]

Now now, play fair UG, the words that followed were:

Fair? Both statements followed, however I picked the statement that illustrated my point best, as is normal when having a disagreement.

[chiang mai]

These discussions about poor air quality in Chiang Mai are so predictable yet so inconclusive - one group suggests they have bad experiences then the statisticians come along and present lies, I mean statistics, showing they must be mistaken. [...]

I couldn't agree more about the predictability. One group claims they have bad experiences and I would think that this is quite true. However, a group of 5, 10 or even 25 people is still so small that it completely lacks significance. Furthermore, there may be dozens, or hundreds, of explanations for each individual experience.

What surprises me is that these people claim that their individual, subjective, experiences are "true" whereas extensively documented research by the World Health Organisation, the Thai Pollution Control Department and others is "lies".

Well, there are still people who believe the Earth is flat, so...

/ Priceless

Well of course the individual points of view are all accurate and true, I have no difficulty at all believing that. Statistics on the other hand, hmmm! And to be honest if we were talking about the collection of pollution data in any other country than Thailand I might take a different view. As things stand however I have immense difficulty believing that the Thai Pollution Control Department conscientiously provided 100% accurate unadulterated pollution data to the WHO and that all parties believe that said data is 100% accurate and reliable. Those kind of things don't work well in mature and stable countries let alone here. Given a choice between suspect "facts" and statistics and my own personal experiences, the latter will win every time.

Edited September 26, 2008 by chiang mai

[Mapguy]

These discussions about poor air quality in Chiang Mai are so predictable yet so inconclusive - one group suggests they have bad experiences then the statisticians come along and present lies, I mean statistics, showing they must be mistaken. [...]

I couldn't agree more about the predictability. One group claims they have bad experiences and I would think that this is quite true. However, a group of 5, 10 or even 25 people is still so small that it completely lacks significance. Furthermore, there may be dozens, or hundreds, of explanations for each individual experience.

What surprises me is that these people claim that their individual, subjective, experiences are "true" whereas extensively documented research by the World Health Organisation, the Thai Pollution Control Department and others is "lies".

Well, there are still people who believe the Earth is flat, so...

/ Priceless

Priceless! Shame on you to have played so casually and misleadingly with numbers!! I can not believe that you meant to.

However, a group of 5, 10 or even 25 people is still so small that it completely lacks significance. Furthermore, there may be dozens, or hundreds, of explanations for each individual experience.

A group of 5, 10 or even 25 people where? On this forum, in the city of Chiang Mai, the province of Chiang Mai? I have posted public health statistics from time to time regarding the seasonal incidence of respiratory problems. Furthermore, continuing research is underway at CMU. Why do you suppose it is felt to be important in the public health community?

Dozens, or hundreds, of explanations. This is exceedingly glib for a guy who constantly complains about vague argument and overstatement.

Where did anyone claim that the WHO, PCD and "others" lie? Rather vague accusation!

I am, of course, concerned to find out that the earth is not flat. I shall fasten my seat belt!

Edited September 26, 2008 by Mapguy