'twas On The Monday Morning.....

[Murgatroyd]

I have tried to get used to Thai living, and for the most part, succeded happily.

One thing that I find difficult is not having any hot water in the bathroom... so you can imagine my happiness when I recieved a gift of of some money (10,000 Baht) to have a hot shower installed as a wedding preasant

So my new wife and I went along to home pro to pick out a heated shower, and arrange installation...

The nice man at home pro asked if we had a water pump... we didn't.

He told us that without a pump there wouldn't be sufficient water pressure to make the shower unit work properly... so I forked out for a pump as well

Shower unit = 6350 Baht

Pump = 6450 Baht

Installation of Pump = 1400 Baht.

hel_l, I thought... only 4200 baht over budget... no worries...

On Saturday they called to install the pump and shower unit... I was out at the time, and it wasn't until Sunday evening that I went in to enjoy the luxury of a hot shower at bedtime.

The shower ran hot for about 45 seconds... then all the lights went out and it went cold... dam_n, I thought... a bloody power cut... just my luck.

No... all the other houses still had electricity... it turned out that the circit breaker had gone.

Teething troubles I said, and tried again. Same result.

On Monday morning we called an electrician. He duly appeared and wired a new unit into the fuse box, designed to cope with the extra power.

We tried the shower, and left it on for five minutes, whilst simultaneously running the air conditioner in the bedroom. perfect !

Then all the power went off again...

According to the electrician, we needed a new fuse box. Botheration, I thought... better fix it... more money...

No, he said... it's not that simple... you need a new electricity meter as well... The existing electricity meter is only designed to cope with standard Thai power usage... that is to say : No air conditioners, (We have two, one downstairs, and one in the bedroom), no fridge freezer, no computer, and definately no hot shower... only lights, one fridge, and TV...

For a new electricity meter I need to go to the Electricity company, and fork out about another 6000 Baht... Then I will need to pay for a bigger fuse box. (? Baht).

I now have visions of the electricity company telling me... "Sir : To supply your needs... we need new power station... Nuclear we think... just another 200,000,000,000 Baht"

All for a hot shower...

Murg

[WinnieTheKhwai]

If it makes you feel any better, it was exactly the same story for me, and I assume a whole lot of other people.. Electrical installations here are done by trial & error.

[soundman]

Reminds me of that Tom Hanks movie "The Money Pit".

[PattayaParent]

You needed an impulse heater which has a pump in it.

But I don't think they're available in Thailand.

In all the places I've lived though I've had water heaters, aircons, 'fridges, computers and even an electric oven and no problems with electrics.

[Hssl]

Tin bath and a big pot on the fire then!

[Mattchu9999]

Just go buy some heavy gauge wire, get a metal pole with a hook on the end and hook the wires to the end of the pole and your fuse box and toss the pole with the hook on the end up onto the main lines.... problem solved........

Right? :D

Edited September 23, 2008 by Mattchu9999

[GungaDin]

I have tried to get used to Thai living, and for the most part, succeded happily.

One thing that I find difficult is not having any hot water in the bathroom... so you can imagine my happiness when I recieved a gift of of some money (10,000 Baht) to have a hot shower installed as a wedding preasant

So my new wife and I went along to home pro to pick out a heated shower, and arrange installation...

The nice man at home pro asked if we had a water pump... we didn't. etc

Murg

Murgatroyd.

Welcome to Thailand.

[Rimmer]

Solar heaters maybe? Or just put your metal water tank where the sun can heat it up, got to be cheaper than all the new bits and pieces you had to buy, err hope you upgraded the cable as well......

[robbiecia]

For the OP

Just wait until you have something "complicated" done............then the fun will really start!!!!!

[Tywais]

Moved to DIY forum.

[dotcom]

If your existing meter is 5/15 AMP then it is indeed too small.

Tell us if you are renting or owner premises.

Whoever told you to upgrade the meter is telling you the truth.

It is quite likely you need to run larger wires from the Meter to your load center. You could then just add a second breaker box for your heavy power consuming appliances. Air Con water heater etc.

Crossy have lots of pics of residential units.

Here's a picture of mine.

Thanks Tywais.

[dotcom]

New buildings today usually come with 15/45 AMP rated power meters. That is what I would suggest for you as well.

[Murgatroyd]

Well... to bring the story up to date : We went to the local electricity office this morning... (Via the ATM), The man smiled... and told us that he couldn't help with meter issues... He directed us to the local head office in Bang Phi.

When we arrived at the Bang Phi office, and produced the photocopies of the house papers, and my wifes new ID card... ( See, I'm beginning to learn, I now make photocopies of everything possibly relevant to any given situation ), we joined a queue, and shortly saw a nice lady and explained that we needed a more powerfull meter. After filling out several forms she decided that this was not going to be a problem. The new meter would be fitted before the end of the week, ( Or possibly next week... ), and the good news was that it only cost 4200 Baht... a bargin I thought... then she passed over a wiring diagram : This was a diagram of the new, high spec wiring that we would need to run from the existing meter position to the new fusebox...

Ah... I thought : New fusebox... I thought so...

No Problem said the lady : Just take this to our installation department next door, and they would come and install one of the correct specifications.

We wen't next door... needless to say, by this time it was lunchbreak and the people we needed to speak with were enjoying their lunch. However, to my suprise a nice young lady finished her meal and took us up to the right department. Another conversation ensued... My wife turned to me with her fameous "You're really not going to like this" smile : "She say new Fuse box and wiring installed cost 12000 Bhat !!!"

At this point I nearly lost it... I had taken 10,000 Bhat out of the ATM that morning, paid out 2 sets of cab fair, and the 4200 Bhat for the meter. I simply didn't have 12000 Bhat left.

Nor did I believe that a new fusebox, new fuses, 15 metres of hi-test cable, and about one hours labour could possibly come to 12,000 Bhat.

I explained this to my wife. She agreed that it sounded a bit high...

We returned to Home Pro down the road, where we had origionally bought the wretched shower and pump... I was not a very happy bunny. I decided that the best thing to do was to buy the new fusebox, the fuse array, cable and safety cut off/surge protector myself, and then pay an electrician to fit them... seemed like the logical thing to do. All I needed was for the stalwart staff of Home Pro to tell me which units were required.

They didn't have a clue... even with the wiring diagram and the specs provided... nor would they guarantee to exchange items that I bought in the event of them being the wrong ones...

By the simple expedient of using the highest priced items that they had on display, I was more or less able to cost the operation :

New Fuse box = 1410 Bhat

Safety cut off unit = 1700 Bhat

New Fuse array = 819 Bhat

15 metres of high test cable @ 140 Bhat a metre = 2100 Bhat

Total = 6029 Bhat + Labour.

My wife has a friend who's an electrician... She reckons that he will do the job fairly cheaply...

However, as they wouldn't guarantee to exchange the parts if they were wrong, and as they couldn't or wouldn't tell me the right parts, I didn't actually buy the bits there and then.

Thus, so far this hot shower, that I had casually budgeted at about 10,000 Baht has cost

Shower unit = 6350 Baht

Pump = 6450 Baht

Installation of Pump = 1400 Baht

first visit from electrician = 350 Baht

New Meter = 4200 Baht

Taxi fairs = 825 Baht

Total so far = 19575 Baht

with an estimated further expenditure of :

Parts = 6029 Baht

Labour = 2000 Baht

outstanding Total = 8029 Baht ...

For a full round total of about 28,000 baht including another set of cab fairs... Nearly three times my origional estimate...

Looking on the positive side, I wont have to have the whole street re-wired, or provide Samut Praken with a Nuclear power station !

Murg

Edited September 23, 2008 by Murgatroyd

[dotcom]

That is good news. Only joking.

[Rimmer]

Told you about the heavier cable didn't I ?

Can't help laughing about it though can you

[technocracy]

New 'fuse box' (well consumer unit really is the name)???? Why in gods name would you need a new consumer unit? Unless you are changing from 1 phase to 3 phase (which I doubt) whatever you're old box is should be fine.

Just swap out the meter and hook up the cable to the new meter.

The only 2 considerations you need to make are firstly the cable sizing from meter to the consumer unit. Without knowing the full power requirements and distance from the meter it's a bit of a finger in the air job BUT anything 10mm2 upwards is fine for a 45amp current.

The other is the size of the main breaker installed in your consumer unit - since your meter will only be 45amp you don't need anything over 45amps. 40amps are commonly available and knowing the regular somchai you'll most likely have a 63amp in anyway!

Other than that you should be fine as you are . . . tell them <deleted>!

[longball53098]

If his original Consumer panel is like the one in my rental he does not have the space to add additional breakers to handle the circuits in his house.

The typical panel allows for the main double pole breaker and 4 branch circuits. If he has 2 ACs and a shower heater that would use 3 breakers and leave only one for the remainder of his load. I would suggest a larger panel also to accommodate the added need. But I can't see his layout and load.

[Rimmer]

If his original Consumer panel is like the one in my rental he does not have the space to add additional breakers to handle the circuits in his house.

The typical panel allows for the main double pole breaker and 4 branch circuits. If he has 2 ACs and a shower heater that would use 3 breakers and leave only one for the remainder of his load. I would suggest a larger panel also to accommodate the added need. But I can't see his layout and load.

Back feed from the main switch or bars to an adjacent new mini 2 or three way board, no need to replace the whole thing unless the main switch is too small, but I never saw a main less than 45a.

But on the other hand 2 x 3kw air cons @ 15a each max plus a 3kw water heater another 15a that's already an incredible 45amps. Roughly

[dotcom]

Agree 10 mm wire from meter to load center - as a minimum. Adding a second box is cake. Agree 63 amp main breaker is fine.

[longball53098]

Sorry I just don't agree with adding the second box and risking a new issue with the added cables.

If you shop around I would think a suitable larger box that accepts more breakers of the same type could be found.

Hire an electrican to do the work if you cannot do this yourself.

Obviously the incoming mains will have to be "switched off" in some way before removing the old box and replacing and reconnecting the replacement

Buy only the box and the new additional breakers and transfer the original main and branch breakers into the new one.

This may seem like a lot of added work but in the long run I think it makes for a cleaner installation. Of course I cannot see the whole project and the original cables and such so this may not work if the cables are too short or the wall or whatever won't allow the bigger box. Many variables that I can't see

[technocracy]

Er well the OP has already said that the initial electrician has installed the new cable and a 'new unit into the fuse box' which I presume is a breaker. So a 2nd consumer unit isn't necessary.

Also since the power is going off to the entire house it's possible that the main breaker is to small - possible just 20 or 32 amps - if the meter is just 5/15amp then this would be a correct install.

So at the worst the OP would need a new main breaker (63 amp) and a couple of lengths of 10mm2 cable, aluminium cable is fine no need for copper so saving cash.

However it's also possible that the somchai who installed could of put a small 20 or 32 amp main breaker on a 5/45amp meter! So I'd check the meter size before doing anything!

[dotcom]

a.) Nobody runs aluminum cable. Copper only & it would be helpful if you not offer bogus advice. We aren't clear on what they use in Lao. We don't care either.

b.) Agree 100% with longball.

Edited September 26, 2008 by dotcom

[technocracy]

a.) Nobody runs aluminum cable. Copper only & it would be helpful if you not offer bogus advice. We aren't clear on what they use in Lao. We don't care either.

b.) Agree 100% with longball.

You obviously have no idea - I am talking about power utilities worldwide not just Lao. Have ever tried running copper cable between poles? I think you find that basically all the low voltage cables used on poles in Thailand (and most countries) are Aluminium. Copper is far too heavy and expensive for this application. Please understand I am only talking about the cabling outside and upto the consumer unit, beyond that copper.

However if the OP wants to pay over the odds for cable which will do nothing different to Aluminium cable they they can follow your 'advice'.

Do yourself some research on aluminium wire usage by power utilities.

Edit:

Here you go: http://www.copper.org/applications/telecom...ends_cable.html - scroll down to the Power Cable section.

Here's a few quotes:

"The wire and cable category known as power cable is really made up of two parts: cable used by the power utilities and industrial-type cable. In the case of utility cable, aluminum dominates in the USA. Most lines are overhead and in this case the light weight of aluminum is a definite advantage. The largest tonnages of overhead cable are aluminum-conductor, steel-reinforced (ACSR) cable, which is uninsulated."

"Overall, however, copper has only a small fraction of the power utility cable business in the USA. The utilities have developed techniques to connect aluminum properly, and have trained their personnel accordingly. There is little opportunity for copper to penetrate the utility market, particularly overhead, compared to the other aluminum wire and cable applications already mentioned."

So do you care what the US does? As it's exactly the same as Thailand.

Edited September 26, 2008 by technocracy

[raylo]

Well... to bring the story up to date : We went to the local electricity office this morning... (Via the ATM), The man smiled... and told us that he couldn't help with meter issues... He directed us to the local head office in Bang Phi.

..........................................

Looking on the positive side, I wont have to have the whole street re-wired, or provide Samut Praken with a Nuclear power station !

Murg

Could try thinking outside the @box@ - I used gas even though I had the house completely rewired and a new box when I renovated.