How Do I Find 15-20 Rai Of Phuket Hillside For Long-term Lease?

[Gregneil1]

I'd like to lease 15-20 rai of hillside land in Phuket.

Any suggestions on how I might find such land on the west coast, not too far from Patong?

Cheers!

Greg

[Sir Burr]

Go to the main braches of the different banks in Phuket town.

They all have portfolios of land and property that is possessed collateral from unpaid loans.

The banks are desperate to recoup their cash loses, so, you can usually get a much better deal than going through real estate agencies. You would probably have to buy, rather than lease, but the price to buy, or, lease for thirty years is about the same.

Edited September 25, 2008 by Sir Burr

[Gregneil1]

Go to the main braches of the different banks in Phuket town.

They all have portfolios of land and property that is possessed collateral from unpaid loans.

The banks are desperate to recoup their cash loses, so, you can usually get a much better deal than going through real estate agencies. You would probably have to buy, rather than lease, but the price to buy, or, lease for thirty years is about the same.

Thanks Sir Burr. A couple questions come to mind...

1. Do banks (versus real estate offices, etc.) in any way provide the buyer/lessee a greater level of protection against fraud and such?

2. Given that the purchase price and 30-year lease price are about the same, does leasing provide favorable payment terms? In other words, does purchase require a large up-front "down-payment" or "balloon payment", whereas leasing only requires monthly or annual lease payments? Btw, the land I'm interested in would be inexpensive undevelopable hillside.

Thanks!

[Sir Burr]

I couldn't really say for sure if the land from the bank would be safer. You would have to ask them if they have done due dilligence.

Buying the land will be 100% of the cash up front. Leasing will depend upon the owner. They may demand anywhere from 25% to 100% up front.

If you are not interested in putting buildings on the land, then any land above 80 metres sea level should be relatively cheap as you can't put permanent structures up, though, it has been rumoured that powerful Bangkok based Thais have been snapping up this land in the anticipation that the law will be changed from 80 metres to 100 metres.

The problem with this high up land is that very little of it has a useful land title. This means that the person you buy/lease from, may not be the owner, or, could have the land taken away from them by the government.

Edited September 25, 2008 by Sir Burr

[LivinginKata]

1. Do banks (versus real estate offices, etc.) in any way provide the buyer/lessee a greater level of protection against fraud and such?

2. Given that the purchase price and 30-year lease price are about the same, does leasing provide favorable payment terms? In other words, does purchase require a large up-front "down-payment" or "balloon payment", whereas leasing only requires monthly or annual lease payments?

1. You can be sure that any loaning bank will have already checked out that all aspects of the land & owner are completely correct. So you can expect almost 100% protection against fraud.

2. Yes price to buy or 30 year lease are much the same, given that the price is paid up front. Generally speaking freehold purchase require full payment, although a bank loan might be possible over 10, 20 or 30 years. 30 years also usually require full payment, although lease deals might be available with big% initial payment and then annual payments. So pay up front much the same cost or pay over time much the same, BUT THINK THAT freehold = you will own the land forever, lease = you loose land or pay again after 30 years.

[LivinLOS]

What kind of budget are you looking at ?? You do realize the extreme value of land plots of that size near to Patong ??

Over 80m many plots are not nor sor sam gor.. Are you OK with Tor Bor Ha ??

[Gregneil1]

Buying the land will be 100% of the cash up front. Leasing will depend upon the owner. They may demand anywhere from 25% to 100% up front.

If you are not interested in putting buildings on the land, then any land above 80 metres sea level should be relatively cheap as you can't put permanent structures up... The problem with this high up land is that very little of it has a useful land title. This means that the person you buy/lease from, may not be the owner, or, could have the land taken away from them by the government.

I'm looking for hillside land above 200 meters only, and have no interest in putting up buildings. Basically, I'm looking for 15-20 rai of high-elevation hillside with trees (jungle ok).

Hopefully this type of land will be cheapest per rai, since I'm looking for undevelopable land (maybe that also helps minimize the up-front payment?). I've heard that the government might also own this type of land... if so, is the gov't known to sometimes lease its land?

[jts-khorat]

It might help a lot if you could divulge as to the intended use of the land.

The land above the 80m line between Patong and Kathu is either intensively farmed (plantations) or the land tracts have trees marked as 'in care' by the government on them. There are actually nice paths going up there for nature walks.

If you wish to use the land agriculturally (and those are the only uses currently possible) I imagine that there must be a government organization that earmarks the land. As far as I understand the actual use of the land is controlled, so just leasing it to block it up in the hope that the laws will change might not work.

BTW, foreigners do not qualify for agriculture and as others have noted, competition for most of this land is high. If you can read between the lines, than it should be clear what I am trying to say here.

[Gregneil1]

What kind of budget are you looking at ?? You do realize the extreme value of land plots of that size near to Patong ??

Over 80m many plots are not nor sor sam gor.. Are you OK with Tor Bor Ha ??

Budget is not fixed at this point, as I'm in preliminary info-gathering mode. Yes, I'll surely have sticker shock, but am willing to be 30 minutes drive outside of Patong to minimize cost.

I am definitely ok with Tor Bor Ha. I want lowest title to minimize cost. I expect that what I'm looking for will never be developed by anyone else, and I plan to invest little money in the land.

[jts-khorat]

What kind of budget are you looking at ?? You do realize the extreme value of land plots of that size near to Patong ??

Over 80m many plots are not nor sor sam gor.. Are you OK with Tor Bor Ha ??

Budget is not fixed at this point, as I'm in preliminary info-gathering mode. Yes, I'll surely have sticker shock, but am willing to be 30 minutes drive outside of Patong to minimize cost.

I am definitely ok with Tor Bor Ha. I want lowest title to minimize cost. I expect that what I'm looking for will never be developed by anyone else, and I plan to invest little money in the land.

30mins outside of Patong is basically all of the island or at least the west coast. Since there is not all that expensive land for farming in the center of the island/around Thalang, it makes less and less sense to look for land above 80m.

Also you state that you do not want to develop the land, which also makes very little sense if you look for land reserved for agriculture (and up there is nothing else), which you must develop. A quick look into the farming forum will show you that even a teak or rubber plantation is a whole can of worms to open if you wish to do this in a casual manner.

[Gregneil1]

What kind of budget are you looking at ?? You do realize the extreme value of land plots of that size near to Patong ??

Over 80m many plots are not nor sor sam gor.. Are you OK with Tor Bor Ha ??

Budget is not fixed at this point, as I'm in preliminary info-gathering mode. Yes, I'll surely have sticker shock, but am willing to be 30 minutes drive outside of Patong to minimize cost.

I am definitely ok with Tor Bor Ha. I want lowest title to minimize cost. I expect that what I'm looking for will never be developed by anyone else, and I plan to invest little money in the land.

30mins outside of Patong is basically all of the island or at least the west coast. Since there is not all that expensive land for farming in the center of the island/around Thalang, it makes less and less sense to look for land above 80m.

Also you state that you do not want to develop the land, which also makes very little sense if you look for land reserved for agriculture (and up there is nothing else), which you must develop. A quick look into the farming forum will show you that even a teak or rubber plantation is a whole can of worms to open if you wish to do this in a casual manner.

Good point, jts-khorat, 30mins outside Patong is a huge area. More specifically, the mountains that are generally on the southwest coast between Kamala and Kata. (yes, I also did post in the Real Estate area... sorry, I wasn't sure where to post, I'm kinda new here.)

Regarding intended use of the land, it is in no way agricultural. More along the lines of treehouses and nature walks, etc. How would I go about determining if the "in care" government tract land (for example, between Patong and Kathu) might be available for my purposes?

[LivinginKata]

As I understand it those lower levels of land title are actually still owned by the government, and leased ONLY to Thai nationals, for farming purposes. I think you'll find it almost impossible to obtain this amount & type of land in part foreign or part foreign company name. You'll have to lease from a Thai without any form of legal security.

[Gregneil1]

Thanks to all for your comments!

[LivinLOS]

Regarding intended use of the land, it is in no way agricultural. More along the lines of treehouses and nature walks, etc. How would I go about determining if the "in care" government tract land (for example, between Patong and Kathu) might be available for my purposes?

As a non Thai national and as a cash cow to the system I think you will struggle to put any structure on >80m land.. Even down to thai rubber tapper shacks etc..

Of course Thai nationals just do it, and they get left alone, as a farang business I doubt you would.

Properly titled land, over 80 but under 120.. With road access.. I am guessing your looking at over 1mil under 2m per rai in the Patong / tourist catchment area.. I knew of some 12 rai above patong last year.. Was IIRC Sor Por Kor but cant remember which one.. So that would be a 'land use' right not a land ownership right.

[Gregneil1]

Properly titled land, over 80 but under 120.. With road access.. I am guessing your looking at over 1mil under 2m per rai in the Patong / tourist catchment area.. I knew of some 12 rai above patong last year.. Was IIRC Sor Por Kor but cant remember which one.. So that would be a 'land use' right not a land ownership right.

Thanks LivinLOS, but what I'm looking for is 10-20 rai of untitled land, in the 200-500 meter elevation range, in the southwest area of the island. Indirect road access is fine, as patrons will "hike-in" a short distance. That should hopefully be easier on the pocketbook...

[Sir Burr]

Untitled land in the 200m to 500m elevation all belongs to the forestry department. If its untitled, you can't use it.

Land at that elevation is very, very steep and almost impenetrable.

There aren't any trees big enough for tree houses and even if there were, you wouldn't be allowed to build them.

I don't really understand the concept. If you want to do a nature tour, why not just take them onto the government land? Accomodation would have to be elsewhere. Besides, who would want to live up there away from amenities? Where would you get water, there isn't any up there.

It all seems highly impractical.

[jitagon]

I'd like to lease 15-20 rai of hillside land in Phuket.

Any suggestions on how I might find such land on the west coast, not too far from Patong?

Cheers!

Greg

If you really have to ask about about buying, let alone leasing, this amount of land on Phuket, on a bloody expat forum, you really are asking to be shafted. Hey! I have fifty rai on Patong beach front, Chanote, cheap for quick sale! Let me know if you're interested. Idiot.

[jitagon]

Properly titled land, over 80 but under 120.. With road access.. I am guessing your looking at over 1mil under 2m per rai in the Patong / tourist catchment area.. I knew of some 12 rai above patong last year.. Was IIRC Sor Por Kor but cant remember which one.. So that would be a 'land use' right not a land ownership right.

Thanks LivinLOS, but what I'm looking for is 10-20 rai of untitled land, in the 200-500 meter elevation range, in the southwest area of the island. Indirect road access is fine, as patrons will "hike-in" a short distance. That should hopefully be easier on the pocketbook...

You're incredibly stupid aren't you. Just off the boat?

[LivinginKata]

So now the OP is talking about UNTITLED land. Ok then just go stake out a piece of land above 200m (??) and see what happens. In a few months some government officials will call round and eject you from government land. Are you for real ....

A few members here have tried to give you some serious advice. Now we find that you have been wasting our time..

Edited September 25, 2008 by LivinginKata

[jitagon]

Untitled land in the 200m to 500m elevation all belongs to the forestry department. If its untitled, you can't use it.

Land at that elevation is very, very steep and almost impenetrable.

There aren't any trees big enough for tree houses and even if there were, you wouldn't be allowed to build them.

I don't really understand the concept. If you want to do a nature tour, why not just take them onto the government land? Accomodation would have to be elsewhere. Besides, who would want to live up there away from amenities? Where would you get water, there isn't any up there.

It all seems highly impractical.

Let me explain. The OP wants to build a 'resort' same same Kao Sok - treehouses. But hasn't done his homework, has never been to Phuket, is stupid, and doesn't realise the huge disparity between Phuket Island ... and the Rest Of Thailand. Kaojai mai?

[jitagon]

What kind of budget are you looking at ?? You do realize the extreme value of land plots of that size near to Patong ??

Over 80m many plots are not nor sor sam gor.. Are you OK with Tor Bor Ha ??

Budget is not fixed at this point, as I'm in preliminary info-gathering mode. Yes, I'll surely have sticker shock, but am willing to be 30 minutes drive outside of Patong to minimize cost.

I am definitely ok with Tor Bor Ha. I want lowest title to minimize cost. I expect that what I'm looking for will never be developed by anyone else, and I plan to invest little money in the land.

How old are you?

[LivinLOS]

Well the Big Buddha is at an elevation of 1180 ish ft.. Or 350 ish meters.. And your looking for land higher up to 150m above that.. hmm.. thats will be interesting..

Theres no such thing as untitled land.. It all belongs to someone even if its just kings land of forestry land..

So again.. what kind of budget are you looking at ?? Cos I have a suspicion your looking at something that would buy maybe a half rai plot somewhere

[Gregneil1]

To those who feel I've wasted their time, I apologize. Certainly not my intent. Apparently I misused terminology, including "untitled". I make no secret of lacking Thai real estate knowledge.

But why the personal insults? Isn't this forum here for less knowlegable people to ask questions? Jitagon, you try too hard to sound like a very important person, but end up sounding like a sad, pathetic, bitter person. Wow, it must be great to be as smart as you...

I'm simply a non-resident (though annual holiday visitor to LOS) trying to understand some basic land-use information. I fully intend to use proper legal counsel, when the time comes. On a previous different thread, I asked about "canopy rides", or "zip-line rides" on Phuket, but received no reply. That is the concept I'm interested in. Hence, the elevation, trees, slope, etc. "Treehouses" I mentioned would merely be platforms in the trees. No accomodations, no amenities necessary.

Sir Burr and LivinLOS, thank you for your kind replies, despite not being clear on what I was interested in doing.

[LivinginKata]

So again.. what kind of budget are you looking at ?? Cos I have a suspicion your looking at something that would buy maybe a half rai plot somewhere

LOS, stop waiting your time. The OP is either a fool or a dreamer...

[LivinLOS]

So again.. what kind of budget are you looking at ?? Cos I have a suspicion your looking at something that would buy maybe a half rai plot somewhere

LOS, stop waiting your time. The OP is either a fool or a dreamer...

I know.. But was just having fun..

To the OP.. Theres a zip lines place with the ATV track I think.. Seen billboards anyway..

Land over 80m will have building restrictions.. That means anything, a set of toilets, a ticket booth, a refreshments shack, anything.. under 80m and you will look at 4 - 5m per rai.. so expect 50m or so baht to get a large 10 - 15 rai land plot.. Sure need a lot of customers to pay that back.

[fiddlehead]

To Gregneil1, Sorry so many have found the need to harrass you for your ideas.

There's always a way i believe.

I do a lot of exploring of the island up in the mountains and in the jungle. (Believe it or not, there is still some real jungle here, it's not all rubber trees)

I have seen some beautiful land and some has for sale signs (i can't read thai but have seen signs saying 10,000,000 baht on it)

I've also talked to some people up there on nice land that have told me they would sell it for 9,000,000 baht.

Maybe they are lying or trying to cheat me. Obviously they are according to some posters here.

Good luck with your project. I for one think it would be a plus to the island.

Perhaps going to the Dept. of Tourism for help would benefit you?

At the least i think you should get a Thai partner? (an open minded, honest one. Yes, there are some around)

Sometime you need thick skin to post on here as there are many who seem to only sit back and wait for a post like yours so they can pounce.

Hopefully you'll be successful and THEY will never want to send their kid there or perhaps go themselves.

ps. Another problem i forsee up at that higher elevation is road building/maintenance. Most of the roads (if there are any) are in bad shape and would take a lot of money to make passable, especially in rainy season.

There was talk about putting in a cable car from Patong to Big Buddha. Surely if someone could get permission to do THAT, then someone could get a zip line or treetops ropes course permit. Maybe go find out who was (or is) planning this project and see what kind of hoops they had to jump through.

[rishi]

This site has a few plots listed. Although they are all listed as for sale - who knows?

http://www.asiapropertyworld.com/Property-...for-sale-Phuket