Jump to content

Accident In Isan


Norv

Recommended Posts

If there is any chance of suing the other part I will go ahead with that as he has not only ruined my holiday but also damaged my health irreversibly.

Thanks again all for the support and I hope this helps some others and I do feel it is time that the Falangs stood up to this discrimination by the Thais and not let then get away with it.

Too many times I hear "oh Just walk away from it" and they get away with murder literally.

Thanks again

You may end up with the "health" damaged permanently, if you start persuing things... at the end of the end its you choice...Farangs standing up to this discrimination etc etc...nice sentiment....wish it were true...but Thailand is not the city of Westminster, where you can go and stand outside the parliment with a placard protesting things...There are no goverment departments which look after "immigrants" rights..etc etc..

For all its good points, Thailand is still essentionally a "Wild West" type country...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 78
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Yes I have paid the excess however here is the strange point.

My wife for some reason told me to say if asked that the car belongs to her, now they have not asked me but I am sure from my interpreters unease with her dominance of the situation that she has without doubt said the car was hers and that I was driving it. It was a hire car from the hire company run by a policeman.

There is no doubt as to who the guilty party is and the police have admitted this (I recorded him saying this on my phone during the interview)

I have contacted my UK lawyers ( Travel Insurance as I was in Hospital some time and the have said they have and office of Lawyers in BKK Euro assist. They have to pay for the hospital and I have had to overstay, as I can’t fly due to the damage to my Lungs and water on my heart.

If there is any chance of suing the other part I will go ahead with that as he has not only ruined my holiday but also damaged my health irreversibly.

Thanks again all for the support and I hope this helps some others and I do feel it is time that the Falangs stood up to this discrimination by the Thais and not let then get away with it.

Too many times I hear “oh Just walk away from it” and they get away with murder literally.

Thanks again

You do not have to overstay. You can get a note from your doctor and immigration will give you an extension

Barry

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Whilst there are some facts certainly not clear here, such as the involvement of a UK insurer, I cannot agree that for a resident with ttheir own insurance, the correct course of action is just to claim on your insurance.

If you do this, your premium will be raised and you lose your no claims bonus. I find it hard to believe that your insurance company is going to go after Somchai and get back all they have paid out and reinstate your no claims bonus !

If they have no insurance or were drunk then they have to pay. How far you can enforce that is up to the individual and the situation but a minimum would have to be for replacement of any excess and loss of no claims going forward which might actually be more than the repair costs.

As for medical then you are in a totally different ballpark.

I know sometimes you have to give in but not everytime and certainly not straight away or things will never improve.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes I have paid the excess however here is the strange point.

My wife for some reason told me to say if asked that the car belongs to her, now they have not asked me but I am sure from my interpreters unease with her dominance of the situation that she has without doubt said the car was hers and that I was driving it. It was a hire car from the hire company run by a policeman.

There is no doubt as to who the guilty party is and the police have admitted this (I recorded him saying this on my phone during the interview)

I have contacted my UK lawyers ( Travel Insurance as I was in Hospital some time and the have said they have and office of Lawyers in BKK Euro assist. They have to pay for the hospital and I have had to overstay, as I can't fly due to the damage to my Lungs and water on my heart.

If there is any chance of suing the other part I will go ahead with that as he has not only ruined my holiday but also damaged my health irreversibly.

Thanks again all for the support and I hope this helps some others and I do feel it is time that the Falangs stood up to this discrimination by the Thais and not let then get away with it.

Too many times I hear "oh Just walk away from it" and they get away with murder literally.

Thanks again

Norv, Stick by your guns. I don't like the tricks being played by your side by saying the car was your wives, what is that for?

A Thai staff member of mine got drunk one night and hit another car. He did exactly what your drunk did, swerved onto the wrong side of the road and hit an innocent driver head-on, he managed to break both legs of the innocent driver. You should do what Thai's do to Thai's. Our worker got a civil case against him, after going through courts he had to come up with 200,000 baht in damages. Don't be nice, make the little bugger pay! He might not have money, but make it hurt a lot. His mother/father etc can put land or a house up for mortgage to find money after a civil case has gone through. In our case the worker pretty much ruined 2 years of his life, ended up in and out of jail a couple of times, and is no longer a staff member........ However, he is better for it now, and I have seen him around and I think this life lesson did him good.

and to Mahtin, this is nieve. Thai's do have assets. They also have a lot of pride when the family becomes involved. When an accident happens it is very important not to allow the police to coerce you into signing documents of guilt. It is THEIR insurance policy that the farang can not take this any further when they were not the guilty parties (simply ridiculous, on the stupid farang's part). Thai's do have money. They have it within families and families are always called on to help. The system does work, all be it not quite like a UK, German or US system might.

Edited by jayjayjayjay
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes I have paid the excess however here is the strange point.

My wife for some reason told me to say if asked that the car belongs to her, now they have not asked me but I am sure from my interpreters unease with her dominance of the situation that she has without doubt said the car was hers and that I was driving it. It was a hire car from the hire company run by a policeman.

There is no doubt as to who the guilty party is and the police have admitted this (I recorded him saying this on my phone during the interview)

I have contacted my UK lawyers ( Travel Insurance as I was in Hospital some time and the have said they have and office of Lawyers in BKK Euro assist. They have to pay for the hospital and I have had to overstay, as I can't fly due to the damage to my Lungs and water on my heart.

If there is any chance of suing the other part I will go ahead with that as he has not only ruined my holiday but also damaged my health irreversibly.

Thanks again all for the support and I hope this helps some others and I do feel it is time that the Falangs stood up to this discrimination by the Thais and not let then get away with it.

Too many times I hear "oh Just walk away from it" and they get away with murder literally.

Thanks again

Norv, Stick by your guns. I don't like the tricks being played by your side by saying the car was your wives, what is that for?

A Thai staff member of mine got drunk one night and hit another car. He did exactly what your drunk did, swerved onto the wrong side of the road and hit an innocent driver head-on, he managed to break both legs of the innocent driver. You should do what Thai's do to Thai's. Our worker got a civil case against him, after going through courts he had to come up with 200,000 baht in damages. Don't be nice, make the little bugger pay! He might not have money, but make it hurt a lot. His mother/father etc can put land or a house up for mortgage to find money after a civil case has gone through. In our case the worker pretty much ruined 2 years of his life, ended up in and out of jail a couple of times, and is no longer a staff member........ However, he is better for it now, and I have seen him around and I think this life lesson did him good.

and to Mahtin, this is nieve. Thai's do have assets. They also have a lot of pride when the family becomes involved. When an accident happens it is very important not to allow the police to coerce you into signing documents of guilt. It is THEIR insurance policy that the farang can not take this any further when they were not the guilty parties (simply ridiculous, on the stupid farang's part). Thai's do have money. They have it within families and families are always called on to help. The system does work, all be it not quite like a UK, German or US system might.

WELL SAID

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was waiting for the traffic to let up to make a right turn into a parking lot. When the oncoming traffic ceased, I started my turn only to have a motorcycle try to pass me on the right and hit me in the oncoming lane. It was very obvious what had happned by the bike in the road, the dent in the car, etc, and when the cops got there, they told the rider that they could see the driver had tried to pass me illegally.

The driver broke his ankle, and as they were taking him away, he told the cops he had no license nor insurance. I was asked if I had insurance, and I replied that I did. Now the cop changed his story and asked me to take the blame. When I refused, he gave me a ticket for making an illegal right hand turn from the parking lane, depsite the fact that the parking lane was chock full of parked cars, so it was impossible for me to have done that. I took photos of everything, but the cop kept asking me to pay 2,000 baht for the kid's hospital bill.

I got my insurance agent there, and even though I wanted to fight it, he paid the 2,000 baht. DWF. Driving While Farang.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Cheers for the advice reassuring if nothing else.

Paying 400 B seems the easy way out but I have been informed that they make money out of this 1st Insurance and a lot less hassle, this came from a Thai Cop.

My wife has police pull but they seem to love a Falang in distress.

I have contacted my insurance in UK and they in turn have said they would contact their lawyers in BKK to deal with the matter, however this was some days ago and I have heard nothing as yet so a call to them may be a good idea, albeit that the Local police have warned me not to do this.

So basically I have my UK insurance cover and the 1 st insurance cover of the car hire company.

The car hire company are all cops and my wife has told me to tell them is was her car if I am asked (I have not) what she has said I do not know but she is thick in with the police and local syndicate.

What makes it worse is that we are in the process of divorce so I don’t think she has my interest at heart.

Thanks again I will call UK again tomorrow, but I can’t bring myself to admit to Guilt for some idiots bad driving proven drunk driving who could have killed me and then give him a new car.

Jezuz H Christ...another one!!

You hired a car from a police syndicate? have you seen the insurance cover? I bet there isn't one, they have charged u for it and pocketed the money and ur wife probably got a commission :o

Thats why they are pushing u to use ur UK insurance. The other guys have no insurance and broke.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You hired a car from a police syndicate? have you seen the insurance cover? I bet there isn't one...
My thoughts too, if 'they' wish to bring you back to Thailand for a court case - fine, they will be paying the flight costs. It is a case, i'm sure, that police are trying to scare you into just paying the money and going away. If the police (different town) are the people that rented the car to you, it might be worth suggesting that they come to a deal with their counter party as your farang legal team are looking to make a big international case about this.

Getting the lower ranking police to understand this can be achived by making a clear point of taking names and numbers, they don't like to think that later they will be held to account for their actions.

If nessasary knock up a fake web page from the BBC or similar showing the case, wave that under their noses and suggest that the bad publicity that they will attract will upset their bosses. They are just bully soi dogs having a go at a the new kid (farang) - when they see you have big power not just big easy money they will back down.

If you really want to reverse the process and chase them you need legal representation connected with your UK based insurance company, if it's a Bangkok based company they appoint the local police might understand that the problem isn't going away and the path they have to follow with least adverse impact on them is to go after the drunk driver.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

OK, I have read all the info here.

My conclusion is to NOT say you are at fault. Absolutely not.

As things are now, you definitely have the long end of the stick. You didn't do it. You have recorded the police saying the other driver weas responsible. You have the insurance.

However, if you admit it was your fault the balance shifts the minute you sign that statement. Perhaps your insurance will pay, but what about the other driver, will he sue you? Will any of the other people involved suddenly come forth with injuries? Will you then be asked to sign another statement saying you did that and pay only 1 mill Baht to get out of it? Only to find that the new statement of guilt opens you even more up for new problems.

In short, you are in an ok situation right now (despite the trouble you obviously have) but if you admit it was your fault, you will be in for a nasty downward spiralling rollercoaster.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Any advice appreciated from anyone that has been in this position before

Having finished working the net in my apartment in Khon Kean Thailand around 1.30 am UK 7 the only time I can talk to my son after work, I set out in my hire car for some water, food and Phone card from the local 7/11.

I did not get very far before a car from the other side of the road swerved violently across onto my side and before I could even hit the brakes at 30 Klm/h I was hit on my side of the road and an angle of about 30deg.

The occupants got out drunk as lords and could not stand the locals all shouted Mow Drunk.

I having smashed my wind screen with my head and suffered lung and heart damage and was admitted to hospital. lucky to be alive the doctor said.

When the police interviewed me they admitted he was drunk all of the occupants were and had come from the local club, and had no insurance.

I had what is known as first insurance that would pay for both vehicles if I pleaded Guilty.

I have refused the advice of the police who have admitted he was to only drunk but another matter but also in the wrong.

But the way in Thailand is the one who has first insurance pays especially if he is a Falang, I have refused to admit to something I did not do.

They insisted that I make a statement and told me NOT to involve my UK insurance or it would be very bad for me, and that I would be coming back to Thailand for many years to fight the case, if I don't admit Guilt.

What do I do admit guilt pay B400 and it is all finished in the Police Station or string this out for years to come……..help.

:o

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Any advice appreciated from anyone that has been in this position before

Having finished working the net in my apartment in Khon Kean Thailand around 1.30 am UK 7 the only time I can talk to my son after work, I set out in my hire car for some water, food and Phone card from the local 7/11.

I did not get very far before a car from the other side of the road swerved violently across onto my side and before I could even hit the brakes at 30 Klm/h I was hit on my side of the road and an angle of about 30deg.

The occupants got out drunk as lords and could not stand the locals all shouted Mow Drunk.

I having smashed my wind screen with my head and suffered lung and heart damage and was admitted to hospital. lucky to be alive the doctor said.

When the police interviewed me they admitted he was drunk all of the occupants were and had come from the local club, and had no insurance.

I had what is known as first insurance that would pay for both vehicles if I pleaded Guilty.

I have refused the advice of the police who have admitted he was to only drunk but another matter but also in the wrong.

But the way in Thailand is the one who has first insurance pays especially if he is a Falang, I have refused to admit to something I did not do.

They insisted that I make a statement and told me NOT to involve my UK insurance or it would be very bad for me, and that I would be coming back to Thailand for many years to fight the case, if I don't admit Guilt.

What do I do admit guilt pay B400 and it is all finished in the Police Station or string this out for years to come……..help.

:o

Norv, your either the most naive or nicest guy on the planet - remember this from one of your first posts??? ???

Anyone have an idea as I am too mixed up for clear thought I have known her over a year and were fine together. I feel the best is to cancel the Settlement visa application and pack her off home although she says she will lose face and cannot go back to the same town.

If you can't see this as a hit on your life and well being, you are indeed blind - and will probably be screwed. You are going thru a divorce, you getting hurt in an accident keeps the money rolling in as you will stay in Thailand - did you know Divorces in LOS are one of the easiest things to do??? Do yourself a favor, get a divorce lawyer in Bangkok - tell your insurance company that covered the car 'in thailand to clear this sh!t up with the accident, then move to Pattaya where I am sure you wil live happily ever after until the next one comes along..................Oh BTW - I have lived in LOS (on and off) for almost 30 years.............get a new life

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...

Hi all,

Well things have moved on, why can’t things be simple in Thailand.

I left Thailand on the 9/10/08 on the 10/10/08 Pol. Sub. Lt. Wongsakorn from the Thai police rang my wife to ask her where I was she replied Thai he knew I was going back to the UK today as I had made a statement to that effect.

He told her that I had broken Thai law and that I should not have left Thailand.

He went on to say that I was twice the limit for alcohol.

My wife was in the Hospital when she got the call from Pol. Sub. Lt. Wongsakorn and went to see my Doctor who gave her a form stating that on the day of the accident I was not drunk at all and had no evidence of alcohol on me when I was admitted to the hospital on the 17/09/08.

He when on to say no police had been to see he regarding me, however later that day she was informed that the police had been into admin and requested my hospital files.

No test was taken from me at any time and I was sure not pissed or even had a beer that night.

Well the Lawyer in BKK received the document from some lab 11/11/08

The UK insurance paid me out the hospital fee of some 7000B.

And that was it till today I am told that because I would not plead guilty to the offence so the other party could get a new car from the insurance Pol. Sub. Lt. Wongsakorn has now taken me to court.

So Pol. Sub. Lt. Wongsakorn has stitched me up the lawyers in BKK seem to listen to Pol. Sub. Lt. Wongsakorn even though he would not contact them.

So I have two forms one says I am 114 m/dl alcohol over taken 10/10/08 and sent to the lawyers 11/11/08 and one from my Doctor that says I had not had a drink.

My question how did Pol. Sub. Lt. Wongsakorn Know that I was over the limit on the 10/10/08 when the test had not been analysed at that time from the date second why 2 months for the test.

OK I have him recorded telling me to plead guilty I did not so now I have a fabricated Drink Driving claim with an out of date test.

What is the best way to deal with this if I want to come back to LOS.

Pol. Sub. Lt. Wongsakorn is well out of line here and seems to work with impunity can you fight this or just let it go

Hmm what to do

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Any advice appreciated from anyone that has been in this position before

Having finished working the net in my apartment in Khon Kean Thailand around 1.30 am UK 7 the only time I can talk to my son after work, I set out in my hire car for some water, food and Phone card from the local 7/11.

I did not get very far before a car from the other side of the road swerved violently across onto my side and before I could even hit the brakes at 30 Klm/h I was hit on my side of the road and an angle of about 30deg.

The occupants got out drunk as lords and could not stand the locals all shouted Mow Drunk.

I having smashed my wind screen with my head and suffered lung and heart damage and was admitted to hospital. lucky to be alive the doctor said.

When the police interviewed me they admitted he was drunk all of the occupants were and had come from the local club, and had no insurance.

I had what is known as first insurance that would pay for both vehicles if I pleaded Guilty.

I have refused the advice of the police who have admitted he was to only drunk but another matter but also in the wrong.

But the way in Thailand is the one who has first insurance pays especially if he is a Falang, I have refused to admit to something I did not do.

They insisted that I make a statement and told me NOT to involve my UK insurance or it would be very bad for me, and that I would be coming back to Thailand for many years to fight the case, if I don't admit Guilt.

What do I do admit guilt pay B400 and it is all finished in the Police Station or string this out for years to come……..help.

:o

Norv, your either the most naive or nicest guy on the planet - remember this from one of your first posts??? ???

Anyone have an idea as I am too mixed up for clear thought I have known her over a year and were fine together. I feel the best is to cancel the Settlement visa application and pack her off home although she says she will lose face and cannot go back to the same town.

If you can't see this as a hit on your life and well being, you are indeed blind - and will probably be screwed. You are going thru a divorce, you getting hurt in an accident keeps the money rolling in as you will stay in Thailand - did you know Divorces in LOS are one of the easiest things to do??? Do yourself a favor, get a divorce lawyer in Bangkok - tell your insurance company that covered the car 'in thailand to clear this sh!t up with the accident, then move to Pattaya where I am sure you wil live happily ever after until the next one comes along..................Oh BTW - I have lived in LOS (on and off) for almost 30 years.............get a new life

Cheers mate hmm well what to say I am now divorced as the marriage was in UK that has just been done 9/12/08 Yes you could say that two serious accidents both in Thailand none anywhere else in the world ?

Well if the cop has his way I will not be able to come back as he is fabricating a drink driving claim against me

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Any advice appreciated from anyone that has been in this position before

Having finished working the net in my apartment in Khon Kean Thailand around 1.30 am UK 7 the only time I can talk to my son after work, I set out in my hire car for some water, food and Phone card from the local 7/11.

I did not get very far before a car from the other side of the road swerved violently across onto my side and before I could even hit the brakes at 30 Klm/h I was hit on my side of the road and an angle of about 30deg.

The occupants got out drunk as lords and could not stand the locals all shouted Mow Drunk.

I having smashed my wind screen with my head and suffered lung and heart damage and was admitted to hospital. lucky to be alive the doctor said.

When the police interviewed me they admitted he was drunk all of the occupants were and had come from the local club, and had no insurance.

I had what is known as first insurance that would pay for both vehicles if I pleaded Guilty.

I have refused the advice of the police who have admitted he was to only drunk but another matter but also in the wrong.

But the way in Thailand is the one who has first insurance pays especially if he is a Falang, I have refused to admit to something I did not do.

They insisted that I make a statement and told me NOT to involve my UK insurance or it would be very bad for me, and that I would be coming back to Thailand for many years to fight the case, if I don’t admit Guilt.

What do I do admit guilt pay B400 and it is all finished in the Police Station or string this out for years to come……..help.

:o

But I always thought the insurance you get with a hire car ( after paying the excess )

covered you so why do you need to involve your UK insurers ?

Yes well that is what i thought well first I had a hospital fee to pay not a lot only B7000 But now I have this cop in Khon Kaen trying to get me to plead guilty i did not so he is hanging a drink driving claim on me along with a test that never took place and 2 months old.

She he is harassing my former wife as to my where i am as I am summond to court to pay for the other vehicle my Hire car insurance paid for my car already that was taken and fixed while i was in Hospital, Oh the hire car company is run by a cop from the same department

Link to comment
Share on other sites

^ It does sound like our Norv has gone and picked himself a bad 'un.

Cheer mate this really has been a haul :o

Ok I am worried about this because I would like to retire in Thailand.

What is the best way do I get a Lawyer and deal with it ??

Will my UK insurance pay for this the Thai insurance has fix my hire car that is back on the road now making money again still no Airbag though.

Will my UK insurance cover this legal cost will the Car Hire insurance cover this cost and who pays my trip back to LOS or LOSD Land of Smiles and Deception??

Yes I would like to sure the <deleted>(^ing critter that ran into me

Oh and where is the evidence my car is gone fixed no evidence why should that not have waited till the case was closed??

So many questions I cant be the only one that has had this shi_t it is everywhere you go in Isam fines for nothing doing no wrong they will get you.

I have hear that some farangs are darkening the car windows so Thais can't see who is driving as the smile on the face of Thai after he has rear end shunted you and sees a farang drivng, his lucky day most farangs just pay right or wrong to save the complication.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here you can here the conversation between Khon Kaen cop Pol. Sub. Lt. Wongsakorn and myself.

He is telling me to plead guilty.

I just wanted out of there he Pol. Sub. Lt. Wongsakorn was suggesting to me to plead guilty was not recorded but prompted me to start recording was him telling me that i if I did not do as he said plead guilty i would have problems with the Thai police however at the end he tells me NOT to contact my UK insurance

http://www.syte-uk.com/kkpolice.mp3

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi all,

Well things have moved on, why can't things be simple in Thailand.

I left Thailand on the 9/10/08 on the 10/10/08 Pol. Sub. Lt. Wongsakorn from the Thai police rang my wife to ask her where I was she replied Thai he knew I was going back to the UK today as I had made a statement to that effect.

He told her that I had broken Thai law and that I should not have left Thailand.

He went on to say that I was twice the limit for alcohol.

My wife was in the Hospital when she got the call from Pol. Sub. Lt. Wongsakorn and went to see my Doctor who gave her a form stating that on the day of the accident I was not drunk at all and had no evidence of alcohol on me when I was admitted to the hospital on the 17/09/08.

He when on to say no police had been to see he regarding me, however later that day she was informed that the police had been into admin and requested my hospital files.

No test was taken from me at any time and I was sure not pissed or even had a beer that night.

Well the Lawyer in BKK received the document from some lab 11/11/08

The UK insurance paid me out the hospital fee of some 7000B.

And that was it till today I am told that because I would not plead guilty to the offence so the other party could get a new car from the insurance Pol. Sub. Lt. Wongsakorn has now taken me to court.

So Pol. Sub. Lt. Wongsakorn has stitched me up the lawyers in BKK seem to listen to Pol. Sub. Lt. Wongsakorn even though he would not contact them.

So I have two forms one says I am 114 m/dl alcohol over taken 10/10/08 and sent to the lawyers 11/11/08 and one from my Doctor that says I had not had a drink.

My question how did Pol. Sub. Lt. Wongsakorn Know that I was over the limit on the 10/10/08 when the test had not been analysed at that time from the date second why 2 months for the test.

OK I have him recorded telling me to plead guilty I did not so now I have a fabricated Drink Driving claim with an out of date test.

What is the best way to deal with this if I want to come back to LOS.

Pol. Sub. Lt. Wongsakorn is well out of line here and seems to work with impunity can you fight this or just let it go

Hmm what to do

What to do?

from reading your previous posts. Just go home to the UK and leave the mrs here.

Thailand is not working for you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

From what I've read on this topic, I think that the OP is being played by his Mrs (soon to be ex-mrs). It sounds dangerous.

Inform the insurance company and let them handle it. No reason you should have to hang around if you are physically able to get on the next flight to the UK. There are no criminal charges overhanging you?

Get outta Dodge.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This doesn’t make sense and usually if the facts don’t add up, than it means there is more to this story.

1. Why wasn’t the driver of the other car, breathalysed and details of the test officially recorded in the police records?

2. Did the police attempt to take witness statements from the local bystanders?

3. Why are not the police prosecuting the other party for dangerous and drunk driving?

4. Did the OP have full insurance coverage on the hire car provided by the hire company?

5. What sort of relationship is it between the Ops wife, police and local syndicate?

This all appears shady which I’m sure is the reasons this matter has become very complicated.

Edited by sassienie
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interesting that you have it on tape. On the tape our dear police officer also clearly says that it is not your fault but that you should pay...

Yes so to ensure he get his way he later gets a letter from the Hospital stating I am 147ml/dl over limit Drunk Driving so I go to my Doctor and he gives me one saying that i was not after i was admitted NO ALCOHOL sorry it arrived 2 months later

Edited by Norv
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.









×
×
  • Create New...
""