Police Fire Tear Gas At Protesters In Front Of Parliament

[hammered]

One thing a lot miss is that yesterdays action was carried out by a lot of poorly trained border police brought in for the job. It was definitely planned. Also the media has been correct in their criticism of the failure to give any warning before launching a tear gas and possibly more assault. Several warnings to disperse should be expected before an assault similar to this.

The police now have some explaining to do.

Why were no warnings given?

Why were border police used?

How did demonstrators lose limbs?

Who ordered the assualt - Gen Chavalit while doing the honorable thing said he was partially responsible?

Why did TV footage show officers carrying what appeared to be shot guns?

There also seems to be sevral photos showing police with grenades - this may sound bizarre but anyone who knows the history of the border police will not be surprised.

It does however, look like what was a clear and premeditated assualt planned to cause injuries (no warnings is a big giveaway) has backfired.

[AlKing]

<br />

PAD does not recognise this government. It's a people's revolution. <br /><br />Blockades show that the government is not in control and <b><font color="#ff0000">people have taken over large parts of the country.<br /></font></b>

<br />Large parts of the country or a small portion of Bangkok?<br /><br />...<br />Imagine PAD gets their wishes, then you will see a people's revolution.<br />

<br /><br /><font size="3"><font color="#ff0000">Government ministers dare not to step foot in the South as well.</font></font><br /><br />If PAD gets their wishes, people will be represented in parliament for the first time in Thai history. That would be a revolution alright.<br /><br />Nevermind the imbeciles who convinced themselves that poor would lose a right to vote. That's an internet myth, sort of like a virus picked up by ignorant users, it spreads only among brain dead who reply to penis enlargement e-mails and send their passwords to the banks for confirmation.<br /><br />I know it might come out as shocking to some, but the only evidence of losing the right to vote can be found in posts by someone like permanent_disorder or sunrise07. It doesn't exist in the real world.<br /><br />

<br /><br />That's because PAD is predominantly being supported by pro DEMOCRATE people. Are we talking about sore losers from how many elections now. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! leave the mind spinning as to democracy and your option of it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!<br />

<br /><br /><br />

Please correct me if I have mistaken. Didn't the PM just visited the South a few days back?

[tourleadersi]

They are non lethal devices.

Unless they go off in your face.

And if your face isnt in the middle of a rioting mob that is even less likely to happen.

If you are trapped in the middle of a riot and get hurt that is unfortunate, but if you are there to fight then you can't complain if you die by the sword. Whilst the weapons used are called non lethal, the situation will always dictate that at times people will get hurt or killed. Feather dusters proved to be innefective in crowd dispersal, and live ammunition seemed a touch on the heavy handed side of things. So tear gas, rubber bullets, water cannons etc are a measured response to a dangerous situation. Must be terrifying for both sides. I am sure the police are fully aware of what would happen to them should they get seperated and fall into the hands of the mob. That kind of fear can see a jump from non lethal to lethal in the blink of an eye. Only from the armchairs of critics are the decisions then taken apart. Having been caught in such a situation, I would have given my left nut for some lethal force. My rapier wit just didnt prove adequate.

Considering there is little accountability in this country for the police and army, I think they have been very restrained so far.

[canuckamuck]

One thing a lot miss is that yesterdays action was carried out by a lot of poorly trained border police brought in for the job. It was definitely planned. Also the media has been correct in their criticism of the failure to give any warning before launching a tear gas and possibly more assault. Several warnings to disperse should be expected before an assault similar to this.

The police now have some explaining to do.

Why were no warnings given?

Why were border police used?

How did demonstrators lose limbs?

Who ordered the assualt - Gen Chavalit while doing the honorable thing said he was partially responsible?

Why did TV footage show officers carrying what appeared to be shot guns?

There also seems to be sevral photos showing police with grenades - this may sound bizarre but anyone who knows the history of the border police will not be surprised.

It does however, look like what was a clear and premeditated assualt planned to cause injuries (no warnings is a big giveaway) has backfired.

Premeditated to do what? save the MP's? I think they succeeded

[animatic]

Look,

How many of you on this forum have a say on what happens in this country then?

I say about 5% or less.

Alot of the rest is just nonsense.

If you can vote then vote and speak.

If you can't vote then shut up and dont say what you can not do or help.

Who are you to decide those that can or cannot pass comment on a reasonably open forum?

There are many foreigners that live in thailand and are very concerned about what happens in the country , none of them can vote , but i am sure many have wives and family that can vote . What happens here has a great deal to do with their lives and future here ,so i feel sure they are as equally concerned as a 'PURE'(?) Thai that can vote , perhaps if you paid attention to some of the comments , you may learn something of value instead of being critical in a place your nose may well be out of place .

'PURE'

So all the people on here who are foreigners to my country,also WHERE MY WIFE AND CHILD LIVE.

Think they have the right to say this and that about the country. If its so bad why not go back to there own country and look at there own government.

Maybe you should stop sticking your nose into places it should not be.

Your country? What about these topics of yours then? They would suggest it isn't your country - let's not forget you also previously overstayed for two & half years in your country!

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Qualificatio...ed-t210653.html

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Live-t214757.html

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Advice-Pig-F...ng-t216352.html

Ditto.

I live here, have a family, own property, I see no reason I must then be totally silent.

I can find something incongruous or illogical in ANY country, and see no reason not to

make an effort to see things change for the better. I may not have all the answers,

but at least I am participating in the ongoing dialog.

I don't buy this be ONLY an utterly silent / stupid guest BS.

It's simple really: If you live in a country and consider it home, you pay taxes - directly or indirectly - and participate in it in any way, then you have the right to an opinion.

Which when you look at it closely is the reverse of the PAD position - PAD wants to have MPs appointed, not democratically elected, hence the misnomer of its name, but I digress...

I am a New Zealander and live in Australia. I have lived here six years (and am married to a Thai) but I do not have the right to vote in Australia. Fortunately, people with the views of one or two of the contributors quoted above are few and far between here and I am entitled to comment on political or any other event, as one would expect in an open democracy. In time I will gain citizenship and vote as well.

I'm frankly astonished that anyone should suggest if you don't have a vote you're not entitled to an opinion! (However I have been heard to say here 'If you have the right to vote and you don't you're not exactly qualified to criticise the collective decision of those who did - I trust that doesn't sound too contradictory!).

Yes, yes, yes!

I lived for 10 years in a european country, with VERY few exceptions I

was always welcome to tlak about the politics that affected my life there.

One or two tiwts tried to pull the 'foreigner shut up' card,

but were generally told by others to shut up themselves for saying it.

Like RenzoInOz says, if you pay taxes and live somewhere, you get a say.

Maybe you can't vote, but 'No taxation without representation'

still holds with getting to TALK with those that CAN vote.

[jumnien]

Two warlords are fighting each other using their gangs as surrogates and equally engaging in media manipulation. On faction is the majority of Army, right-wing ultranationalists and royalists, the other is a corrupt gang of traditional Thai politicians. The masses of Thais, educated and uneducated, are definitely sitting this one out!

[Plus]

How can you say a PAD installed government will reprsent the people.

Because people would get to choose someone from among themselves to represent them. Not a cousin of local gangster sponsored by big Bangkok businessman turned politician.

I think it's bloody obvious that this nominee government is not representing people who elected them. They can claim legitimacy on basis of elections, but not representation. Everyone in this country knows who they really work for. Some like it that way, some don't, but it's a sheer hypocrisy to deny the obvious.

[jumnien]

How can you say a PAD installed government will reprsent the people.

Because people would get to choose someone from among themselves to represent them. Not a cousin of local gangster sponsored by big Bangkok businessman turned politician.

I think it's bloody obvious that this nominee government is not representing people who elected them. They can claim legitimacy on basis of elections, but not representation. Everyone in this country knows who they really work for. Some like it that way, some don't, but it's a sheer hypocrisy to deny the obvious.

Things that are bad (TRT/PPP) can always get worse (PAD)! You wouldn't let a screaming madman like Sondhi L. near your children or loved ones, why would anyone let him near the political process?

[hammered]

Two warlords are fighting each other using their gangs as surrogates and equally engaging in media manipulation. On faction is the majority of Army, right-wing ultranationalists and royalists, the other is a corrupt gang of traditional Thai politicians. The masses of Thais, educated and uneducated, are definitely sitting this one out!

I find myself in agreement with you today.

[Plus]

You wouldn't let a screaming madman like Sondhi L. near your children or loved ones, why would anyone let him near the political process?

For the umpteenth time - Sondhi is not going into politics, never had, never will.

He is not going to implement his proposals, he leaves that to the society.

[AlKing]

<br />

I don't know how often this lies get posted again and again. PAD told again and again that they don't want any not elected MP. They made twice an official statement which was at the TOC webpage, but now there is no link there. There they told clearly that also these "appointed" MPs are not appointed they are elected within their society. For example the Isaan Rice Farmer elect an MP out of themself who takes care of their interests/needs.<br />So you have general election and you <font size="3"><font color="#ff0000">have election inside specific groups</font></font>. And that was just an idea to discuss about.

<br /><br />And you don't see this for the absolutely ridiculous farce it is............. Let me ask you, one very significant Profession in Thailand has it's core skills honed to perfection in Nana, Cowboy and PatP. Will you allow this "Specific Group" to elect their own MP............. Who decides who the groups are, who decides the number of groups, who decides the proportional representation. What you are finally going to end up with is.................. IQ's over 110 allowed only................ You are the most undemocratic promoter on this forum. Heil.......<br />

<br /><br /><br />

Wow Jay. That's is a very good point from your side. Who are going to represent the bar girls? However I know who is going to represent the bathers: Chuwit.

PS. These 2 groups are very territorial. They don't like to step on each other's toes.

[toybits]

I wonder if this government has ever seen itself trying to muzzle ASTV?

Talk about ASTV, I'm in Hat Yai, which most houses have these ASTV, cant say I like it, it's full of hatred and far too biased.

A typical Propaganda Channel which I'd avoid as it corrupts your mind and decision if you continiously watched.

I also heard that most of the PAD leader's word opposes that of justice, and even even contradicts obvious facts.

[ratcatcher]

Two warlords are fighting each other using their gangs as surrogates and equally engaging in media manipulation. On faction is the majority of Army, right-wing ultranationalists and royalists, the other is a corrupt gang of traditional Thai politicians. The masses of Thais, educated and uneducated, are definitely sitting this one out!

Agreed.

If the warlord leading "a corrupt gang of traditional Thai politicians is" Thaksin Shinawatra, now based in the U.K., using his brother-in-law

Somchai Wongsawat as his field commander, would you care to speculate as to who is the other warlord leading "the majority of Army,

right-wing ultra-nationalists and royalists" ?

Just wondering if there's a face to this warlord.

[billaaa777]

You say rich and 'educated', like this 'educated' is a bad thing

You missed the point all together. The better educated the population is, the richer it is, the higher the living standard. I am say that the rich and educated are ONLY concerned with themselves and NOT the "POOR UNEDUCATED" the PAD states has NO right to vote. When a dictatorship takes over they usually start with the rich and educated, in this case they are starting with poor. Buy you can be sure the rich and educated are coming next. And who is going to be there and stand up for you. Nobody is the answer! Just like the rich and educated are there for the POOR, OPPS, my bad, they are not there for them, but they are going to let them DIE since it benefits them. SAD, SO SAD

Edited October 8, 2008 by billaaa777

[toybits]

Why know show a video clip of that blue pick up truck running down a few cops and then backing up to run over one of the injured cops...???

The daily mail co uk have a ton of pictures if anyone is interested..

This picture at the end caught my attention.. Is that tear gas or a grenade? Any experts here?

3 People are dead now.

Awesome! This is awesome!

Why didnt any of the TVs revealed this?

[jayjayjayjay]

<br />

I don't know how often this lies get posted again and again. PAD told again and again that they don't want any not elected MP. They made twice an official statement which was at the TOC webpage, but now there is no link there. There they told clearly that also these "appointed" MPs are not appointed they are elected within their society. For example the Isaan Rice Farmer elect an MP out of themself who takes care of their interests/needs.<br />So you have general election and you <font size="3"><font color="#ff0000">have election inside specific groups</font></font>. And that was just an idea to discuss about.

<br /><br />And you don't see this for the absolutely ridiculous farce it is............. Let me ask you, one very significant Profession in Thailand has it's core skills honed to perfection in Nana, Cowboy and PatP. Will you allow this "Specific Group" to elect their own MP............. Who decides who the groups are, who decides the number of groups, who decides the proportional representation. What you are finally going to end up with is.................. IQ's over 110 allowed only................ You are the most undemocratic promoter on this forum. Heil.......<br />

<br /><br /><br />

Wow Jay. That's is a very good point from your side. Who are going to represent the bar girls? However I know who is going to represent the bathers: Chuwit.

PS. These 2 groups are very territorial. They don't like to step on each other's toes.

I can see this moving to Rachadar Road in the near future. The clash might be fought out underground somewhere between Nana and Huey Kwang Stations. This could cause serious disruption to Bangkok business. My money would be on the bargirls, some them angels got leathers straps. I figure the "bathers" will need to bring more than sponges and towels. (the first smiley for some time)

[animatic]

How can you say a PAD installed government will reprsent the people.

Because people would get to choose someone from among themselves to represent them. Not a cousin of local gangster sponsored by big Bangkok businessman turned politician.

I think it's bloody obvious that this nominee government is not representing people who elected them. They can claim legitimacy on basis of elections, but not representation. Everyone in this country knows who they really work for. Some like it that way, some don't, but it's a sheer hypocrisy to deny the obvious.

Things that are bad (TRT/PPP) can always get worse (PAD)! You wouldn't let a screaming madman like Sondhi L. near your children or loved ones, why would anyone let him near the political process?

Dinner for 10 with Sondhi at the table would make for a lively dinner conversation.

You just keep blowing this madman smoke in the air,

fortunately the breeze blows it away quickly.

[h90]

As well Chart Thai and some other told before the election that they would NEVER support Thaksin and PPP, so their voters got something very different than what the voted for.

In my country, a few years ago, the people voted massively for "Vlaams Blok (something like Thai Rak Thai)" to show their disproval to the ongoing political "show".

Yet, the other small parties formed a coalition and were able to vote out any proposition of the "Vlaams Blok" which led to new voting.

So, the people didn't get what the they voted for.

In the USA, Bush came to power after falsifying the Ballot counts.

So what's your proposition?

Shall every country do as Thailand is doing and chose the ILLEGAL approach to overthrow their goverments?

No way the Vlaams Blok can be compared with the TRT...no way.....

[toybits]

Its a shotgun but what is important is what ammo you put in it. Solid slug, buckshot, birdshot, salt pellets or rubber bullets.

Hm, I'm never a gun expert, but it does looks like a shotgun, anyone can confirm it?

[animatic]

You say rich and 'educated', like this 'educated' is a bad thing

You missed the point all together. The better educated the population is, the richer it is, the higher the living standard. I am say that the rich and educated are ONLY concerned with themselves and NOT the "POOR UNEDUCATED" the PAD states has NO right to vote. When a dictatorship takes over they usually start with the rich and educated, in this case they are starting with poor. Buy you can be sure the rich and educated are coming next. And who is going to be there and stand up for you. Nobody is the answer! Just like the rich and educated are there for the POOR, OPPS, my bad, they are not there for them, but they are going to let them DIE since it benefits them. SAD, SO SAD

You make blanket assumptions

and presume to speak for the middle class Thais to boot.

When a dictator takes over he usually gathers up the mass of underprivileged to his false flag,

and then tramples the educated who know better than to believe his bullshit. Fit's Thaksin to a T.

Once he has consolidated power through aquired force,

he jetisons the masses he can NOW control with force,

or pseudo-populist bribes. And beats down or intimidates,

the educated as much as possible. Gee Thaksin again.

I missed no point of yours.

[toybits]

I did not realize how much excitement a hardboiled egg could generate...

Nah, I wasted 25 seconds of my life searching Google Images until I found the one I posted. Can't be bothered to look for an exact match. Maybe you could?

[hammered]

The Post has a good editorial:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/081008_News/08Oct2008_news14.php

[cmsally]

Anyone see this?

Non Violoent means are no longer the way

The Matichon article it refers to is linked in there.

[toybits]

Aren't you assuming (without proof) that the shotguns are loaded with lethal ammo?

How do you know that the shotguns are not loaded with rubber bullets (non-lethal ammo)?

Sorry I DO know guns and there is TWO teargas launcher

and SEVERAL real shot guns in those pictures.

These police are heavily armed and can take out a leg easily with double 00 buck.

With a 2-3" slug, it can take a knee right off.

This is not crowd control this is going to war at close range.

[larvidchr]

This is a revolution, people are rising against the government.

When that happens, it's the government's fault, not people's.

What do we normally do in the world if the lines are so sharply drawn up that no middle-ground can be found, we turn to the international organisations for unbiased evaluation of the situation, and as regards to Thailand here goes.

The present Government coalition is considered legal and democratic. All discussions about the election result is thus a complete waste of breath and time, you got to move on!

No matter how many times a single person/minority screams and claims otherwise that fact is not going to change, any action taken by that single person/minority to overthrow the internationally recognised legal Government would internationally be considered illegal, and they would if they gained power have no legitimacy to negotiate anywhere and be subject to embargo's pressure on trade aso. aso. as was the former military dictators here in Thailand.

In other words to attain power there is only one legitimate way forward, that is to convince enough people to vote for your views at the next election, and by utilising internationally recognised legal means to achieve that goal.

According to the BBC news last night things went down as follows:

"The PAD supporters left Government house which they occupy illegal according to numerous court orders, they had anyway been allowed to stay there and negotiations was under way with the Government. Despite the fact that the Government was seeking a negotiated solution the PAD seeking renewed confrontations left Government house to further stop or interrupt the normal functions of the legal Government thus provoking the inevitable clashes with the Police."

If they had protested peacefully by showing signs shouting aso, but moved aside when asked by the Police no confrontations would have taken place, but they refused to move aside thus loosing all legitimacy, the Police as clearly shown on television had to move forward in riot control formations to disperse the PAD supporters and clear the access to Parliament house.

The Police did consequently not start this confrontation, the PAD did by moving to new positions during the night.

By refusing to disperse they forced a violent confrontation with the Police who are charged with the responsibility to protect and facilitate society's normal functions.

Therefore the PAD are solely responsible for any and all injuries to persons during these clashes. Because no one would have been hurt if the PAD had stayed at their (Illegal) rally in Government house.

In my post here it is not my subjective assessment that decides what is illegal or not contrary to your posts Plus, but taken from the decisions by International Organisations and Court decisions here in Thailand, the same Courts you love when they put out arrest warrants for all the people you don't agree with, and the same Courts that dispose of PM's when they dare to cook up a little dish. And the same Courts that dissolve political party's with millions of supporters based on the wrong doing from only a handful, all actions you have been ardent supporter of here on TV.

So Plus, please try to show a little consistency, continue to support your military appointed Judges, don your best army fatigues and nip down and tell the PAD to F... O..

Edited October 8, 2008 by larvidchr

[jumnien]

You wouldn't let a screaming madman like Sondhi L. near your children or loved ones, why would anyone let him near the political process?

For the umpteenth time - Sondhi is not going into politics, never had, never will.

He is not going to implement his proposals, he leaves that to the society.

Wouldn't it be better for him to just leave society?

[Moonrakers]

It's all very quiet on the news front, whats happening?

[Payboy]

It's all very quiet on the news front, whats happening?

thunder26 had a late night.....

where's he when we need him....

[toybits]

We all have a stake at what is going on - Thais and expatriates living in the Kingdom. Does Thailand want to become a closed state like Bhuthan? Just let us know. I will be the first to leave.

The reason why we are commenting (whether pro-gov or anti-gov) is because we care in our own private way.

We also want to see this problem resolved. We don't want blood to be shed.

But when people fan the flames of Anarchy - it can only lead to more trouble.

So its really up to you dude.

Look,

How many of you on this forum have a say on what happens in this country then?

I say about 5% or less.

Alot of the rest is just nonsense.

If you can vote then vote and speak.

If you can't vote then shut up and dont say what you can not do or help.

Who are you to decide those that can or cannot pass comment on a reasonably open forum?

There are many foreigners that live in thailand and are very concerned about what happens in the country , none of them can vote , but i am sure many have wives and family that can vote . What happens here has a great deal to do with their lives and future here ,so i feel sure they are as equally concerned as a 'PURE'(?) Thai that can vote , perhaps if you paid attention to some of the comments , you may learn something of value instead of being critical in a place your nose may well be out of place .

'PURE'

So all the people on here who are foreigners to my country,also WHERE MY WIFE AND CHILD LIVE.

Think they have the right to say this and that about the country. If its so bad why not go back to there own country and look at there own government.

Maybe you should stop sticking your nose into places it should not be.

[animatic]

Aren't you assuming (without proof) that the shotguns are loaded with lethal ammo?

How do you know that the shotguns are not loaded with rubber bullets (non-lethal ammo)?

Sorry I DO know guns and there is TWO teargas launcher

and SEVERAL real shot guns in those pictures.

These police are heavily armed and can take out a leg easily with double 00 buck.

With a 2-3" slug, it can take a knee right off.

This is not crowd control this is going to war at close range.

Well having seen first hand a poor guy who's knee and leg

were shattered and cut off with ONE 3" 20 gauge shotgun slug,

I saw it before and right after...

I think I can look at the pictures and say this doesn't look like rubber bullits to me.

Maybe the police were using rubber bullits or rock salt,

but I doubt they would be taking a knife to a gun fight.

It also doesn't mean that a third party wanting to stir the pot ,

isn't taking an occasional pot shot, sniper style from another vantage point,

to make the situation spin out of control...

Shot guns leave little ballistic evidence even with slugs.

Gun powder residue and that's about it unless a particular barrel is scored.