Democrats And 40 Senators Press Charge Against Somchai Wongsawat

[Old Man River]

Sondhi is not a member of Thaivisa, he can't be taken to task like our members here.

Poor or uneducated - it doesn't make Clausewitz statement any more correct.

You said that no PAD supporters ahve ever suggested such a thing. I have spoken with several that say exactly that - Issan people are too dumb to be trusted to vote. Do you actually live in thailand, the sentiment is not uncommon. That is why so many academics and news editors support PAD, they really believe that Issan people, for the most part, are a subclass fit only to serve.

Look at this post http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Sin-Sod-t214432.html

Isan...strange people, even stranger customs.

Southern Thailand people consider them human subspecies, shame of entire country.

Clausewitz, while we don't know what form the new politics will take, the discussion has been to appoint a certain % of MP's and have the rest elected. Nowhere have I ever heard that those appointed would represent Isan or any other part of Thailand. In fact, given the Democrats won the majority of the popular vote in the last general election, it wouldn't take that much change in the overall system to tip the scales.

[h90]

PAD supporters not paid!!! ????? who's side of the red tape are you on? It's a well known fact that supporters are paid otherwise they couldn't afford so many months of protests. Otherwise they must have saved lots of money from their poor incomes in the rural areas to do such long sit ins.

The govt is corrupt, sure! So are the PAD leaders. Both sets of leaders are power hungry and really don't care for the average voter. Go and clap your hands out of here...

No it is a well known lie. Many forum members here have friends and relatives going every day to the PAD and no one ever heard or saw any payments. Food and water juice is free there. No payments. Transportation is sometimes free like the southern trains do not charge people who come to join PAD.

[younghusband]

Well, since Clausewitz specifically said "PAD itself", then Dan Rivers blog on cnn doesn't qualify, does it?

He can stuff "Their argument goes like this" line up his ass. Their argument doesn't go like this, and it certainly doesn't say that Isanese would lose their rights to vote.

Who are you going to quote next? Sunrise07?

And in unanimous opinion piece in WSJ, which surely wasn't written by any PAD representatives or supporters, btw, the line " If the PAD succeeds in overturning those elections, it will be at the cost of disenfranchising millions of voters" refers to last elections. I can't see how that can be attributed to PAD itself or prove Clawsewitz's allegation, which so far remains absolutely baseless.

You are trying in vain. It's like the WMD case in the run up to the Iraq war.

To be fair I don't think the PAD leadership have said anyone will lose their right to vote.Nevertheless it's possible to get a reasonable understanding of the New Politics from statements made over recent months.It's difficult always to be precise because quite often the PAD leadership will shift ground or say that what appeared to be policy was in fact just a discussion topic.Chris Baker made the highly pertinent comment that what is projected as New Politics is in fact very old politics indeed.I have just been reading about Sarit and it's quite clear that he would have understood exactly the way Pad leadership thinks.

The PAD certainly have a public relations problem internationally where they have already lost their case.

[hammered]

Well, since Clausewitz specifically said "PAD itself", then Dan Rivers blog on cnn doesn't qualify, does it?

He can stuff "Their argument goes like this" line up his ass. Their argument doesn't go like this, and it certainly doesn't say that Isanese would lose their rights to vote.

Who are you going to quote next? Sunrise07?

And in unanimous opinion piece in WSJ, which surely wasn't written by any PAD representatives or supporters, btw, the line " If the PAD succeeds in overturning those elections, it will be at the cost of disenfranchising millions of voters" refers to last elections. I can't see how that can be attributed to PAD itself or prove Clawsewitz's allegation, which so far remains absolutely baseless.

You are trying in vain. It's like the WMD case in the run up to the Iraq war.

To be fair I don't think the PAD leadership have said anyone will lose their right to vote.Nevertheless it's possible to get a reasonable understanding of the New Politics from statements made over recent months.It's difficult always to be precise because quite often the PAD leadership will shift ground or say that what appeared to be policy was in fact just a discussion topic.Chris Baker made the highly pertinent comment that what is projected as New Politics is in fact very old politics indeed.I have just been reading about Sarit and it's quite clear that he would have understood exactly the way Pad leadership thinks.

The PAD certainly have a public relations problem internationally where they have already lost their case.

They lost the arguement internationally ages ago probably even before they started.

I never understood why nobody on their side just made the argument for pure proportional representation without constituencies ie pure party list. It may always result in coalitions or nearly always but it values everyones vote more equally than constituency systems do and hence would be more democratic and wouldnt upset the international community. It would also directly impact the money politics that PAD dont like. However, who am I to know the bizarre machinations of Sondhi et al. For Gods sake if they had pure PR at the last election you'd almost certainly have a Dem led coalition right now and the PAD could all be going about their business.

The rate we are going we'll end up with another coup instead of getting anyone to agree on a set of rules that evryone will judge things on.

[Thai at Heart]

For those who would like a little more academic opinion on what may be the reason for this all going on, read this. It is fascinating.

http://rspas.anu.edu.au/rmap/newmandala/wp...f-democracy.pdf

The State of Democracy in Thailand

Robert B. Albritton University of Mississippi

Thawilwadee Bureekul King Prajadhipok’s Institute

Most scholars agree that consolidation of democracy requires mass approval in order to sustain this form of government. Even overwhelming support for democracy among peoples of developing nations, however, cannot guarantee democracy in the face of determined elites who have access to instruments of military power

Table 1: Satisfactions with and Commitments to Democracy, 2002 and 2006, N=1546 ________________________________________________________________________

2002 2006

Percent satisfied or very satisfied with the way democracy works in Thailand 90.5 83.8

Percent satisfied or very satisfied with the Thaksin regime 89.5 81.8

Mean rating of democracy under the present government 8.22 7.48 (1-10 scale)

Mean score on desire for democracy 9.33 8.75 (1-10 scale)

Mean score on “suitability” of democracy for Thailand 8.31 8.75 (1-10 scale)

________________________________________________________________________ Edited October 9, 2008 by Thai at Heart

[Samuian]

.....edit....

The rate we are going we'll end up with another coup instead of getting anyone to agree on a set of rules that everyone will judge things on.

Well I am afraid that this is the core reason of the state of this demise very, very TiT !

Sad but true!

The major problem seems to be to get people to agree united on a certain set of rules, it won't happen, one reason why the PAD is out there!

One reason why they want this proxy-or any other proxy government "old wine in new bottle" to disappear, they can't be simply shot,send home or the like, it will take much more action, legal action, educate the voters, implement important laws, get the bad apples out of the equation, will prove as the most difficult as yesterday events have shown!

It's not as simple as just changing a Tyre!

It will take time, precious time, it can't be rushed and the more often the matter is taken to the streets the more often the problem will surface and will be discussed and more and more people will get an understanding of what and why!

As the Chula lecturer who lost 2 toes, said: "I have hope"!

Edited October 9, 2008 by Samuian

[Plus]

Percent satisfied or very satisfied with the Thaksin regime 89.5 81.8

In 2006 81.8% of Thais were "very satisfied" with Thaksin's regime, at the height of anti-Thaksin protests?

This number alone undermines the credibility of this so called "academic" paper.

[citizen33]

In fact, given the Democrats won the majority of the popular vote in the last general election, it wouldn't take that much change in the overall system to tip the scales.

I've seen this stated several times on the forum and am genuinely puzzled as to where this idea comes from. Does the claim involve some calculation that treats different kinds of votes differently or just looks at the electoral areas rather than the constituencies?

The figures I have seen reported are:

People's Power Party

26,293,456 votes in constituencies, giving 199 MPs (of the 400 MPs elected in this way)

14,071,799 votes in 8 electoral areas, giving 34 MPs (of the 80 MPs elected proportionally)

Democrat Party

21,745,696 votes in constituencies giving 132 MPs (of the 400 MPs elected in this way)

14,084,265 votes in 8 electoral areas, giving 33 MPs (of the 80 MPs elected proportionally)

Are these numbers wrong? Perhaps I have misunderstood.

[Plus]

14,084 for Dems on party list vs 14,071 for PPP.

I thought the final tally was still in PPPs favour, but I might be wrong.

The fact is - when it comes to national politics and national issues - Dems have won, or nearly won. Of course that's not enough to form a government, locally elected MPs need to be counted, too.

[Splatter]

Not so sure what you're talking about ...

But if it's about the poor guy who was killed by PAD supporters, I remember a number of comments in this forum: he was looking for trouble, he has only himself to blame ...

So get your facts straight before blaming anybody.

Talking about the Anti PAD posters who posted flaming and abusing post's against all PAD supporters about the one human death from the "other" site but didn't do the same now while 2 death and more than 400 injured by "legal" actions of the police.

That's the fact's! The rest you can read in my post!

Cheers.

These people were killed by home made pipe bombs manufactured by PAD supporters, killed by their own stupidity. The police is doing a fine job. Again, get your facts straight !!

If the police are doing a fine job...

why would they need to say...

"Deputy Metropolitan Police chief Pol Maj-Gen Amnuay Nimmano said no other lethal force was used to disperse the crowd."

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=131231

while photographs from Thai reporters at Parliament House show police firing shotguns?

http://www.zimbio.com/pictures/M16NXIP0a5M...kok/fzGShwhJx5I

http://www.zimbio.com/pictures/M16NXIP0a5M...kok/w3XwX5kU615

Yes, there was violence from the PAD onto the police too.

But I can't understand how a Pol Maj-Gen saying one thing when evidence contradicts it is "doing a good job."

If shotguns were needed... why not come out and admit it?

[animatic]

FROM TOC

SNAP UPDATE: Appeals Court Ordered Withdrawal of Treason Charges against 9 PAD Leaders

UPDATE : 9 October 2008

The Appeals Court has decided to cancel the charges of treason which have been filed against 9 PAD leaders.

The charge of amassing armed forces has also been withdrawn. But 3 other charges remain.

Anti-PAD Group Provides Protection for National Police Bureau

UPDATE : 9 October 2008

Hundreds of anti-PAD members, donned in black, are guarding the front entrance of the National Police Bureau.

Hundreds of members of the Democratic Alliance against Dictatorship or Nor Por Gor are dressed in black. They are patrolling the front of the National Police headquarters to protect the police from the People's Alliance for Democracy.

The staggering irony here is breath taking.

The Pro PPP MOB is PROTECTING the police,

from a group of people the police routed with savagery the day before.

Thepolice can't protect themselves???

A mob to protect the police...

This has gone past farce and into the absurd.

But most absurd the police LET THIS MOB CAMP OUT FRONT....

No bias show, , no sir'ie!

Edited October 9, 2008 by animatic

[cougar52]

I saw this on another Board, I thought it was very interesting.

we have just been down in Koh Samed for a few days, when we arrived, we went for something to eat at the Ban Phe pier whilst there there was a popular Thai actor on the next table to us, i could see my was wife was annoyed, but left it until she was ready to tell me.

The actor left and she says i used to like that man hes a good movie star, so it seems hes one of the PAD activists, and he was on a Rent a mob recruitment drive, he was offering 1,500 baht per day, and 2,000 baht for front line demonstrators, (get your head kicked in for a extra 500 seems a good deal)

So it seems he was telling to locals that PAD will not stop until the present Goverment are put out of power. he was taking phone numbers and not saying when anything will happen. What can we expect next. Huh

[citizen33]

14,084 for Dems on party list vs 14,071 for PPP.

I thought the final tally was still in PPPs favour, but I might be wrong.

The fact is - when it comes to national politics and national issues - Dems have won, or nearly won. Of course that's not enough to form a government, locally elected MPs need to be counted, too.

But if that is the basis of the claim, it clearly rests on a misunderstanding of what comprises the popular vote. The 8 electoral areas only elect 80 MPs out of 480. The constituency MPs of PPP stood with a clear party affiliation. I'm surprised that something that seems very clear can lead to such different interpretations, assuming that people approach those figures in good faith.

[Old Man River]

In fact, given the Democrats won the majority of the popular vote in the last general election, it wouldn't take that much change in the overall system to tip the scales.

I've seen this stated several times on the forum and am genuinely puzzled as to where this idea comes from. Does the claim involve some calculation that treats different kinds of votes differently or just looks at the electoral areas rather than the constituencies?

The figures I have seen reported are:

People's Power Party

26,293,456 votes in constituencies, giving 199 MPs (of the 400 MPs elected in this way)

14,071,799 votes in 8 electoral areas, giving 34 MPs (of the 80 MPs elected proportionally)

Democrat Party

21,745,696 votes in constituencies giving 132 MPs (of the 400 MPs elected in this way)

14,084,265 votes in 8 electoral areas, giving 33 MPs (of the 80 MPs elected proportionally)

Are these numbers wrong? Perhaps I have misunderstood.

You have not misunderstood, based on the way the Thai's elect their MP's. However, if you look solely at who got more votes, although it was close, the Democrats received more votes. It is kind of like a few years ago in the US when Gore received the most votes, but Bush won the election.

[Old Man River]

In fact, given the Democrats won the majority of the popular vote in the last general election, it wouldn't take that much change in the overall system to tip the scales.

I've seen this stated several times on the forum and am genuinely puzzled as to where this idea comes from. Does the claim involve some calculation that treats different kinds of votes differently or just looks at the electoral areas rather than the constituencies?

The figures I have seen reported are:

People's Power Party

26,293,456 votes in constituencies, giving 199 MPs (of the 400 MPs elected in this way)

14,071,799 votes in 8 electoral areas, giving 34 MPs (of the 80 MPs elected proportionally)

Democrat Party

21,745,696 votes in constituencies giving 132 MPs (of the 400 MPs elected in this way)

14,084,265 votes in 8 electoral areas, giving 33 MPs (of the 80 MPs elected proportionally)

Are these numbers wrong? Perhaps I have misunderstood.

You have not misunderstood, based on the way the Thai's elect their MP's. However, if you look solely at who got more votes, although it was close, the Democrats received more votes. It is kind of like a few years ago in the US when Gore received the most votes, but Bush won the election.

The link below is to Wiki, so may not be fully updated, but it does give a good indication of just how close the popular vote was. This is, of course, before several PPP MP's were red carded for voting irregularities.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_general_...lection_results

[Gravelrash]

You all know what I'm talking about!

Tell the truth only! And that's what isn't done in most of the cases here, it's just a repeating of readed reports pp, which in most of the cases not true or even censored for those who done the censor!

Don't forget that a foreigner will never understand the mentality, culture and character of Thais.

Don't forget that foreigner, and that's the most of you, are Guest in this country.

If you don't like what's going on here, go back to your country, but don't get involved as long as you stay in this country.

I've listen many times from many foreigner from different countries, that they wouldn't allow Thais to get involved in their country affairs. Why you claim to get involved here? You don't have any more right as others.

Be objective and don't "run" with the masses!

And don't use that name again Mr. Noname, or Fiction or Beachcom... or who ever you are, I mean YOU: way to go Fritz.

Have you ever considered the benefits of Prozac? Double the recommended dose.

You have the same right as anyone else here to convince others of the correctness of your viewpoint. I would humbly suggest though that ranting drivel may not be the most successful approach.

So let's see, laying into Taksin and co. was ok, but You Will Not Criticize the PAD. The cozy nature of the Democrats and PAD who are helping to destroy tourism and foreign investment here becomes more apparent by the day. It isn't about the ghost of Taksin, it isn't about corruption, it isn't about helping the country, it is a blatant orchestrated attempt at civil coup, a power play pure and simple.

I found the OP article priceless, the Democrats want the PM charged for ordering the Police to evict illegal (and perhaps paid) protestors from government house. Even better, if convicted, facing capital punishment. Inciting civil insurrection is ok, their supporters killing and beating up people is ok, storming public buildings and closing off roads, airports and railways is ok, but don't dare oppose us.

I doubt many here that criticise PAD are PPP supporters, they just don't like what they are seeing. If the Democrats had a clue about anything they would be running a successful and ongoing critique of the government offerring better solutions and gaining credibility for the next election. But do they? No, and why is that, and that is the scary part, they want to be the new government without a platform. So that is better than the incompetent PPP is it?

[citizen33]

In fact, given the Democrats won the majority of the popular vote in the last general election, it wouldn't take that much change in the overall system to tip the scales.

I've seen this stated several times on the forum and am genuinely puzzled as to where this idea comes from. Does the claim involve some calculation that treats different kinds of votes differently or just looks at the electoral areas rather than the constituencies?

The figures I have seen reported are:

People's Power Party

26,293,456 votes in constituencies, giving 199 MPs (of the 400 MPs elected in this way)

14,071,799 votes in 8 electoral areas, giving 34 MPs (of the 80 MPs elected proportionally)

Democrat Party

21,745,696 votes in constituencies giving 132 MPs (of the 400 MPs elected in this way)

14,084,265 votes in 8 electoral areas, giving 33 MPs (of the 80 MPs elected proportionally)

Are these numbers wrong? Perhaps I have misunderstood.

You have not misunderstood, based on the way the Thai's elect their MP's. However, if you look solely at who got more votes, although it was close, the Democrats received more votes. It is kind of like a few years ago in the US when Gore received the most votes, but Bush won the election.

The link below is to Wiki, so may not be fully updated, but it does give a good indication of just how close the popular vote was. This is, of course, before several PPP MP's were red carded for voting irregularities.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_general_...lection_results

Thank you for the link but the figures shown appear to be the same as I have posted above. I fully understand the Gore/Bush scenario where a higher number of votes translated into a lower number of House seats. However if you look at the Thai figures for constituencies, PPP has 26 million votes compared with the Democrats 21 million, which for obvious reasons translated into more PPP MPs than Democrat MPs. The proportional figures in the 8 electoral areas give a slight edge to the Democrats but are only used to elect 80 of 480 MPs. I still cannot see how the Wiki figures support your claim. Perhaps I have missed something! Perhaps the claim involves trying to disaggregate votes from people (some people have 2 or 3 votes in multi-member constituencies), but this seems very complicated. Or was it perhaps the case that somebody tried to calculate amended figures based on alleged voting irregularities?

Edited October 9, 2008 by citizen33

[Gravelrash]

You can say a lot of things about new politics, but you CAN'T claim that anyone, let along the poor, will be excluded from voting process, as Clausewitz did.

In fact, if you read PAD's own proposal, they want to give farmers MORE voice in governing and guarantee direct representation, but that's beside the point - some posters, like Clausewitz, and he is not alone, are able to get away with posting clearly wrong and false information, and then trying to support it with unrelated quotes from unrelated sources. No wonder non-regulars feel pissed off.

Welcome to news clippings.

[JetsetBkk]

...I doubt many here that criticise PAD are PPP supporters, they just don't like what they are seeing...

Exactly.

[Old Man River]

In fact, given the Democrats won the majority of the popular vote in the last general election, it wouldn't take that much change in the overall system to tip the scales.

I've seen this stated several times on the forum and am genuinely puzzled as to where this idea comes from. Does the claim involve some calculation that treats different kinds of votes differently or just looks at the electoral areas rather than the constituencies?

The figures I have seen reported are:

People's Power Party

26,293,456 votes in constituencies, giving 199 MPs (of the 400 MPs elected in this way)

14,071,799 votes in 8 electoral areas, giving 34 MPs (of the 80 MPs elected proportionally)

Democrat Party

21,745,696 votes in constituencies giving 132 MPs (of the 400 MPs elected in this way)

14,084,265 votes in 8 electoral areas, giving 33 MPs (of the 80 MPs elected proportionally)

Are these numbers wrong? Perhaps I have misunderstood.

You have not misunderstood, based on the way the Thai's elect their MP's. However, if you look solely at who got more votes, although it was close, the Democrats received more votes. It is kind of like a few years ago in the US when Gore received the most votes, but Bush won the election.

The link below is to Wiki, so may not be fully updated, but it does give a good indication of just how close the popular vote was. This is, of course, before several PPP MP's were red carded for voting irregularities.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_general_...lection_results

Thank you for the link but the figures shown appear to be the same as I have posted above. I fully understand the Gore/Bush scenario where a higher number of votes translated into a lower number of House seats. However if you look at the Thai figures for constituencies, PPP has 26 million votes compared with the Democrats 21 million, which for obvious reasons translated into more PPP MPs than Democrat MPs. The proportional figures in the 8 electoral areas give a slight edge to the Democrats but are only used to elect 80 of 480 MPs. I still cannot see how the Wiki figures support your claim. Perhaps I have missed something! Perhaps the claim involves trying to disaggregate votes from people (some people have 2 or 3 votes in multi-member constituencies), but this seems very complicated. Or was it perhaps the case that somebody tried to calculate amended figures based on alleged voting irregularities?

I will be the first to admit (OK, the second) that I could be getting this wrong as well. My understanding has always been that the proportional vote in Thailand is the same as what we refer to in the US as the popular vote. Therefore, of the 35.5 million valid votes cast in the Dec. 07 election, 39.63% of the people who cast valid votes, voted for the Dem's and 39.0% voted for the PPP. At least this is how I understand it.

The constituency vote, which counts the most, is a completely different animal and is the basis for the stats you quoted.

My original point in all this was to say that when new politics comes in (and I think it will), the change in the voting system may not have to be as radical a change as some think. It can give more weighting to the proportional vote (popular vote) and less to the current constituency system and this may be enough to tip the scales to where the Dem's end up with the greatest amount of seats. It was just a thought.

[Thai at Heart]

Percent satisfied or very satisfied with the Thaksin regime 89.5 81.8

In 2006 81.8% of Thais were "very satisfied" with Thaksin's regime, at the height of anti-Thaksin protests?

This number alone undermines the credibility of this so called "academic" paper.

Well after last nights tirade of "foreigner go home", I though it may in place to print a Thai institute's considered opinion on the matter.

[khunjamespittman]

Percent satisfied or very satisfied with the Thaksin regime 89.5 81.8

In 2006 81.8% of Thais were "very satisfied" with Thaksin's regime, at the height of anti-Thaksin protests?

This number alone undermines the credibility of this so called "academic" paper.

Well after last nights tirade of "foreigner go home", I though it may in place to print a Thai institute's considered opinion on the matter.

Let's see if we can't find a civil resolution.

Without disparaging an persons or group and with assuming that any one of our opinions is any better that the others because of culture or national origin. After all, we are intelligent human beings capable of understanding that you can't survive long if you step in front of a moving truck on a highway. We don't need to get run over to know that. Neither do we have to live in a specific place or be of a certain national origin to understand when people are acting irrationally. That being said, can the vast majority of us agree that in order for a civil Democratic nation to survive arule of laws must be established and followed by all? I can understand why some people are upset because people were injured. I accept that. I must ask those people wht would happen if the rule of law was abandoned and each person was allowed to do as they wish. Some people might like to rob banks to get their money instead of working and providing a improvement for the country. Others might like to kill people that disagree with them. This would lead to chaos and anarchy and the country would decay and eventually disappear. Just look at Somalia. The government must enforce the rule of law even if some law-breakers are killed or injured. It is the government's responsibiliy and duty to maintain law and order and to prosecute ALL law-breakers. Surely we must all agree that PAD was acting in violation of existing Thai law and therefore gave the Government no option but to enforece the Thai laws.

In a Democracy all people have the same right to opinions within the established law including the right to change the laws and select their leaders. The notion of class in a Democracy is silly in the context of Democratic Governance. The concept of class is necessary for anarchy. If that is what the people Thailand want, I don't have a problem with that.

I do have a problem with someone telling that because I wasn't born in a certain place that I don't have the intelligence to comprehend wihat is happening in a "Democracy". This has absolutely nothing to do with national origin or culture. These are baseless arguments that are typically used to try to dominate like trying win a debate by shouting louder.

Take your pills and let's have a civil discussion.

[cmsally]

For those who would like a little more academic opinion on what may be the reason for this all going on, read this. It is fascinating.

http://rspas.anu.edu.au/rmap/newmandala/wp...f-democracy.pdf

The State of Democracy in Thailand

Robert B. Albritton University of Mississippi

Thawilwadee Bureekul King Prajadhipok’s Institute

Most scholars agree that consolidation of democracy requires mass approval in order to sustain this form of government. Even overwhelming support for democracy among peoples of developing nations, however, cannot guarantee democracy in the face of determined elites who have access to instruments of military power

Table 1: Satisfactions with and Commitments to Democracy, 2002 and 2006, N=1546 ________________________________________________________________________

2002 2006

Percent satisfied or very satisfied with the way democracy works in Thailand 90.5 83.8

Percent satisfied or very satisfied with the Thaksin regime 89.5 81.8

Mean rating of democracy under the present government 8.22 7.48 (1-10 scale)

Mean score on desire for democracy 9.33 8.75 (1-10 scale)

Mean score on “suitability” of democracy for Thailand 8.31 8.75 (1-10 scale)

________________________________________________________________________

Yes, absolutely, that article sums it up. That is the situation.

There are also many issues which have fast forwarded and compounded this issue; giving you the somewhat concentrated mix up that we see at the moment. It really is a situation of make or break as well as being a perceived situation of make or break. Instead of perception and reality somewhat cancelling each other out they are in fact compounding the situation, not to to mention the fact that we need to get on a plane to go somewhere to have a meaningful discussion.

[h90]

I saw this on another Board, I thought it was very interesting.

we have just been down in Koh Samed for a few days, when we arrived, we went for something to eat at the Ban Phe pier whilst there there was a popular Thai actor on the next table to us, i could see my was wife was annoyed, but left it until she was ready to tell me.

The actor left and she says i used to like that man hes a good movie star, so it seems hes one of the PAD activists, and he was on a Rent a mob recruitment drive, he was offering 1,500 baht per day, and 2,000 baht for front line demonstrators, (get your head kicked in for a extra 500 seems a good deal)

So it seems he was telling to locals that PAD will not stop until the present Goverment are put out of power. he was taking phone numbers and not saying when anything will happen. What can we expect next. Huh

And again the same lie.......it is getting very boring.....I have my staff at PAD and my wife, with some contact to the guards (and there are some very strange people) but there is no payment beside food and drinks. People help together to cook some food and safe money with donated food.

Of course there are cases when richer people (like my wife for example) gives someone 1000 Baht and tells "go and buy prawns for it to beef up Chamlongs vegetable soup". But no payments.

Everyone can go at government house (here some pictures I made www.psxtune.com/padweb) and has a look. A majority of Bangkok middleclass people. A lot southerners, many rich chinese shopowner, some Chamlong follower, no more and more "normal" people from everywhere, also a lot people from Isaan and North.

it getting stronger every day.....

[Guest Reimar]

FROM TOC

HM the Queen Bestows Funeral Wreath to PAD Victim

UPDATE : 9 October 2008

Her Majesty the Queen has bestowed a funeral wreath to the family of the female PAD victim who died during police's tear gas attack.

Her Majesty the Queen has bestowed a funeral wreath to the family of Angkana Radappanywut. She died on October 7th during the police tear gas attack against the PAD protesters.

[Guest Reimar]

FROM TOC

Administrative Court Grants PAD Protection against Violent Crackdown

UPDATE : 9 October 2008

The Administrative Court approve the PAD's request for the court's protection against more violent crackdowns by the government and police.

The court has granted the PAD a temporary protection against violent attacks sanctioned by the government or the National Police. It has ordered the authorities to adhere to internationally acceptable riot control practices.

[Guest Reimar]

FROM TOC

PAD Leaders Released on Bail

UPDATE : 9 October 2008

PAD leaders Chamlong Srimuang and Chaiwat Sinsuwong have been released on bail.

They are currently on their way to Government House.

[Thai at Heart]

Don't feed

[Guest Reimar]

FROM TOC

Sondhi: PAD to Tell the World about Govt's Inhumane Crackdown of Protesters

UPDATE : 9 October 2008

People's Alliance for Democracy leader Sondhi Limthongkul is prepared to disclose the details of the attacks against the PAD protesters, a crackdown that has been labeled as inhumane by the public and human rights groups. DVDs of the events that took place on October 7th have been sent out to embassies around Thailand.

The PAD hopes the international community will be able to draw their own conclusions on what really happened to the protesters.

Sondhi Limthongkul took the PAD stage at Government House last night. On behalf of the PAD, he’s denied any responsibility or involvement in the hijacking of a Bangkok Mass Transit Authority bus number 23. He explained that the PAD has no reason to hijack the bus and this was merely an attempt to discredit the protesters.

The PAD leader added that the PAD is currently verifying the information that links several well-respected figures to the Thaksin regime. He’s confident the PAD will be able to disclose the information during the leaders’ speeches tonight. In fact the PAD leader revealed that DVD documentary on the events that took place on October 7th would be sent to foreign news agencies and embassies in Thailand.

Referring to the international crowd control protocol adopted by the U.S., Sondhi explained that the Thai police are only experienced in using their guns against the unarmed protesters. He reiterated that the police were required to engage the PAD in a negotiation before they attempt to crackdown on the protesters.

Sondhi concluded by hinting that the PAD is currently planning a major activity. But he declined to disclose any of the details to the PAD protesters. He vowed that the activity will benefit the public, both in the short and long run.

[Guest Reimar]

FROM TOC

Court Revokes Arrest Warrants on PAD Leaders and Protect Rally

UPDATE : 9 October 2008

The Appeals Court has decided to revoke the arrest warrants and the more serious charges against the nine key People's Alliance for Democracy members. The court has also granted bail to the two key PAD members who were arrested earlier.

Meanwhile, the Administrative Court has granted a temporary injunction on the PAD rally against the police's use of teargas and violence to disperse the rally.

Late today, the Administrative Court granted a temporary injunction as requested by the PAD, against the use of teargas and violence to disperse their rally. The PAD filed this request with the court yesterday, along with a group of 40 senators, following Tuesday's harsh crackdown by the police on the protestors at Parliament. The act resulted in two deaths and almost 500 people being injured.

Meanwhile, at around noon today, the Criminal Court read the Appeals Court's verdict to revoke the arrest warrants for core PAD leaders Chamlong Srimuang, Sondhi Limthongkul, Pipob Thongchai, Somsak Kosaisuk, Somkiat Pongpaiboon, PAD coordinator Suriyasai Katasila, and PAD key members Chaiwat Sinsuwong, Amorn Amornratananont, and Terdpoom Jaidee. The court also decided to revoke the more serious charges of treason, for which the penalty is death or life imprisonment, and gathering of weapons for treason purposes, which has a penalty of three to 15 years jail term.

However, the court kept the charges of public disturbance, which has a jail term of no more than seven years, and gathering forces for public disturbances, which carries a jail term of no more than three years.

The court has also granted bail to PAD core leader Chamlong Srimuang and PAD key member Chaiwat Sinsuwong at 100,000 baht bond for each. The two were released from jail in the early evening.

PAD lawyer Suwat Apaipak will confer with the remaining seven PAD key members as to whether they will turn themselves in to the police.

Core PAD leader Sondhi Limthongkul announced that now that the more serious and unfair charges have been revoked, he is ready to turn himself in to the police to fight the remaining charges.

He stated that if the police oppose bail for the key PAD members the protesters will put more pressure on them, but he insists the rally at Government House will continue.