Is Thailand Finished As An Expat Residence?

[5246jlg]

Hi Guys,

We loved living in CM. Prem had the education standards and the immediate access to some of the most exciting places on the planet via Krung Thep was very appealing for exposure to our young kids, Thai and US citizens (we truely want worldly kids). I have built a business from the bottom (at times not sure I could afford toppings for my 1 baked potato meal a day at the beginning) where we can live anywhere on the planet from a time/money point of view (some due with right place and right time and knowing it). We are very down to earth in values and would love nothing better than to see the kids, say, be an integral part of the UN. We are as comfortable in Issan in a platform house with barely electricity as we are at the Mandarin. It is mearly a change of stage for the play that is life (actually the kids prefer Issan- love to go get the food, frogs at night, the day markets with fish flopping, have the relatives teach them how to trap/raise food animals, etc...).

We had to return to the US about 2 yrs ago (we hated to leave!) for US immigration reasons due to the Thai wife (green cards now can't be out more than 6mo). Since that move Thailand has had a political/stock market melt down, what drapery of democracy has now dissolved to a gossamer mask covering the protectionism of old families. Expats and tourists are being killed. Our visits back leave us with a less than comfortable feeling about the safety of ourselves and the security of our investments. We feel a strong undercurrent of distrust or resentment for foreigners. We really Really REALLY! wanted to make our lives in the outskirts of CM and could do it soon. But even the wife, the jaggernaut of pushing our lives to Thailand (very sharp Issan kid even by US standards, Thai guys don't like that :-) ), has serious reservations about returning to Thailand except to visit relatives given the current atmosphere. So now we are hunkered down in Fort Collins, CO (best place in the US to live 2006. 2nd best 2008, excellent schools but culturally VERY limited) committed to living here for 3 years while the economic/political/expat storms blow by before we will even consider CM as a perm. place to live again. Still not the high schooling/real life experience we wanted for our kids, but then, how many generations of the Medici's got to do nothing during the dark ages...

Sorry if this seems a bit out of touch with the average life, but our life, from the humble beginnings to now, has been anything but average. It is neither better or worse than anyone else's life, just kinda different.

We would like to hear from expats about their feelings in this regard. We really miss CM.

Thanks!

JLG

[473geo]

JLG

We are all in transit....it is the path of life.....why the torment to return....or not?...you live happily, but always as ever the search for some thing better.

Fact is, if you feel that something better is in the country of your wife...you will move...of course...if you do not choose to move, sadly it is because you feel there is no improvement to be had. To attempt to answer your question....my children will grow up in Thailand..I am pleased, they will be always in the caring company of family and extended family...I only have to speak with them to hear they are happy and comfortable...I genuinely feel as children in Thailand they will experience family and community values I did as a child.....I expect of my children nothing more than to be true to themselves....this I'm sure they can achieve in Thailand.

Best wishes

[Ulysses G.]

CM is a great place for a single male, but leaves a lot to be desired for a family.

Just look at all the accidents we've had lately for a start.

If I were in your position, I would be on the next plane to the South of France or at least Hawaii!

[ThaiPauly]

It is really dificult for us to give you sound advice, at the end of the day you will have to go with your head not your heart.

Personally I am happy here, but I do have a workable exit strategy if living here became intollerable.

I really hope it never comes to that...but you just never never know?

[dr_Pat_Pong]

The US is in massive meltdown unless you missed it. 1929/30 proportion.

[wileycoyote]

It is good you are evaluating your situation,

Sometimes ,we all have to do that.

Make the best decision from the heart not thhe head & it will work out OK

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Nice to include a slur against Thai men. If you think that way about half the population then please stay in the US.

[vrsushi]

Why do Americans talk about the world as if everybody is American? When speaking on an international forum to say "I live in Fort Collins, CO" just betrays that far from being global citizens you think rather parochially. Who outside the US would know where the hel_l CO is? I bet you refer to the $ as if there is only one as well.

I've got and American friend who has gained New Zealand citizenship and changed his money into NZ$ from US$ because of the same reasons you state about Thailand.

[Crow Boy]

Who outside the US would know where the hel_l CO is? I bet you refer to the $ as if there is only one as well.

I think you will be very surprised to discover just how many people know exactly what CO means and know where the state is located. Call it globalisation or just geographic awareness. Personally I use letters in the front of most currencies including the US, most of the world also refer to currencies such as Pound Sterling as GBP and the Euro as ERO etc

CB

[clokwise]

I've got and American friend who has gained New Zealand citizenship and changed his money into NZ$ from US$ because of the same reasons you state about Thailand.

I'm in a similar boat, I was an American and bought a one-way flight to Australia eight years ago, the very day GWB was 'elected'. I had not lived in the US for over a decade and was shocked, ashamed and embarrassed by what was happening there. Americans are so proud and patriotic, yet shockingly un-worldly - not surprisingly, the only Americans I've known who understood my move were other expats. The rest of the people I meet, Aussies, Brits, etc, sympathize with me

So, I'm now proudly Australian, yet after doing my minimum time to gain citizenship in Oz, I moved right back to Asia. I live in CM because my wife is Thai/Aussie, and we enjoy the lifestyle and climate here. I never dwell about going back to some of my old favorite cities, because invariably when you do go back for a visit, it's not the same - different people, different shops, different vibe. You can't go home again. So just enjoy your wonderful memories of CM and enjoy where you are now. I really pity my school mates who, 25 years later, still live in the same town and never got to see the world. How lucky all of us here are to have the opportunity to live abroad, if only for a while for some of us.

I have never lived anywhere for more than a few years at a time because I enjoy the thrill of leaving everything behind and starting a new life and career. Yeah, my wife does too. Weird couple huh? We'll leave CM someday, perhaps as early as next year. Next stop for us, back to Australia. But we're moving to a new state, so it will be all new and exciting. We're just enjoying the ride and collecting a lot of friends and memories along the way.

[PeaceBlondie]

Fort Collins is far from He11 , much colder than Chiang Mai, but warmer than Denver, which is saying nothing.

I'm glad that you are happy there, and were happy at Prem, etc. Korean families who were willing to pay me in 2007 more than what I earned per hour in 2002 in the USA, now are having a crisis to pay for Prem, Lanna, APIS, etc. Am I finished as an expat in Thailand? No, the dollar is once again gaining against the baht. I could go back to paying about $1.25 per square foot to live in Houston, where I would be very lucky to find work at $11 an hour. Brownsville and South Padre Island were too cold for me - one centimeter of snow per century. And I might have to go back into the closet at times. No, thanks.

Our mileage differs. Enjoy the snow.

[phaethon]

I know where CO is - the great state of Carbon Monoxide, USA! (or is it Cobalt... )

I can even sit down and name all fifty states - it takes about five hours until I've sorted out which of the four possible Virginias are real and remember f*@%ing Rhode Island.

Anyhoo, This place was the number one place to live in the USA in 2006 when JLG arrived and now it's the number two place... I think JLG owes an apology to his neighbours

[Cobalt60]

I know where CO is - the great state of Carbon Monoxide, USA! (or is it Cobalt... )

I can even sit down and name all fifty states - it takes about five hours until I've sorted out which of the four possible Virginias are real and remember f*@%ing Rhode Island.

Anyhoo, This place was the number one place to live in the USA in 2006 when JLG arrived and now it's the number two place... I think JLG owes an apology to his neighbours

Its not Cobalt, I know all you need to know about Cobalt but know jack about CO, sounds nice though, but I cant be sure.

[iainiain101]

Who outside the US would know where the hel_l CO is? I bet you refer to the $ as if there is only one as well.

I think you will be very surprised to discover just how many people know exactly what CO means and know where the state is located. Call it globalisation or just geographic awareness. Personally I use letters in the front of most currencies including the US, most of the world also refer to currencies such as Pound Sterling as GBP and the Euro as ERO etc

CB

The term 'shot yourself in the foot'....

The ERO is an ETF started in 2006 that tracks the EURUSD exchange rate !!!!

The currency code for the Euro is EUR.

[jdinasia]

Why do Americans talk about the world as if everybody is American? When speaking on an international forum to say "I live in Fort Collins, CO" just betrays that far from being global citizens you think rather parochially. Who outside the US would know where the hel_l CO is? I bet you refer to the $ as if there is only one as well.

I've got and American friend who has gained New Zealand citizenship and changed his money into NZ$ from US$ because of the same reasons you state about Thailand.

We get it, you don't know colorado ... so obviously nobody else does Much less when you put it city,state:)

FortCollins is (imho) a pit, but at least you can get to Boulder and Denver from there pretty easily.

The OP's knowledge of finances etc leave something to be desired not to mention politics, but that can be forgiven due to lack of exposure i guess!

The answer is obviously personal. I could not live in a nanny-state. I wouldn't raise kids in that environment either. other people think it is ideal!

Go where your heart leads you!

[Bill97]

Our visits back leave us with a less than comfortable feeling about the safety of ourselves and the security of our investments.

We feel a strong undercurrent of distrust or resentment for foreigners.

JLG

If that is the way you feel, do not come back.

[jackr]

Personally I am happy here, but I do have a workable exit strategy if living here became intollerable.

I really hope it never comes to that...but you just never never know?

Hope you're not slanting at a trip to a high building in CM, TP

[jackr]

Our visits back leave us with a less than comfortable feeling about the safety of ourselves and the security of our investments.

We feel a strong undercurrent of distrust or resentment for foreigners.

JLG

If that is the way you feel, do not come back.

Bit harsh don't you think. The guy comes across as well balanced, has been there done that, and has brought up many valid points which many of us have no doubt thought about ourselves. If you'd have said, "if that is the way you feel, perhaps have some time away and see how things pan out" then that'd deserve a , but as it stands I think it deserves a

Personally, I feel CM/Muang Thai is a lot better than the alternative, with warts 'n all, and I'll see how it pans out from this end.

All the best, op

[Jingthing]

I think a more diplomatic response might be: perhaps Thailand is finished as an expat residence for YOU. It ain't for everyone, never has been, never will be, and circumstances change, personally and for the country as a whole as well.

Edited October 12, 2008 by Jingthing

[lannarebirth]

I don't understand the premise. If anything, I expect to see a whole lot more expats in the future. Maybe Thailand has lost it's appeal for the 30k baht/mo club, but there are a whole lot of people who used to think they could retire in the US and elsewher on 2,000.mo, and to them Thailand will have all kinds of appeal. For me it's the best place on earth and I readily admit I'm biased. If they come or don't come, who cares?

[undercover]

Our visits back leave us with a less than comfortable feeling about the safety of ourselves and the security of our investments.

We feel a strong undercurrent of distrust or resentment for foreigners.

JLG

If that is the way you feel, do not come back.

I have to go along with that comment, your feeling that there is resentment for foreigners will only get stronger if you decide to live in Thailand.

[Ulysses G.]

Why do Americans talk about the world as if everybody is American? When speaking on an international forum to say "I live in Fort Collins, CO" just betrays that far from being global citizens you think rather parochially. Who outside the US would know where the hel_l CO is? I bet you refer to the $ as if there is only one as well.

You seem to underestimate people's interest in America. There are lots of people around the world who know quite a bit about the U.S. because it is on the news all over the world much more often than most countries and also a lot of them have visited and traveled around.

It is probably the only country in the world that foreigners pay a lot of attention to internal politics and have an opinion who should be the next President and most of them seem to like Obama.

[Gravelrash]

Personally I haven't encountered the negatives the OP talks of. CM is a nice place compared to so much of the rest of the country, it is still cheap, I believe it will increase in retiree popularity.

[Jingthing]

It is probably the only country in the world that foreigners pay a lot of attention to internal politics and have an opinion who should be the next President and most of them seem to like Obama.

I agree, US politics does have international import, and what's not to like? However, it is kind of lame to use US state two letter abbreviations and expect people to know what you are talking about.

Edited October 12, 2008 by Jingthing

[PeaceBlondie]

It is probably the only country in the world that foreigners pay a lot of attention to internal politics and have an opinion who should be the next President and most of them seem to like Obama.

I agree, US politics does have international import, and what's not to like? However, it is kind of lame to use US state two letter abbreviations and expect people to know what you are talking about.

Indeed, many Americas do not know all the two-digit codes, and we learned three-digit codes as children. The state codes starting with A amd M are numerous and confusing. I never write TX here, but do this

Indeed, Fort Collins is hardly a major metro area. Wiki says "Fort Collins is the fifth most populous city in the State of Colorado and the 185th most populous city in the United States. The United States Census Bureau estimates that in 2005 the population of the City of Fort Collins was 128,026 (185th most populous U.S. city),] the population of the Fort Collins-Loveland Metropolitan Statistical Area was 271,927 (163rd most populous MSA). If it were not for its adopted son John Denver, Colorado would be less well known.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

It is probably the only country in the world that foreigners pay a lot of attention to internal politics and have an opinion who should be the next President and most of them seem to like Obama.

I agree, US politics does have international import, and what's not to like? However, it is kind of lame to use US state two letter abbreviations and expect people to know what you are talking about.

Indeed, many Americas do not know all the two-digit codes, and we learned three-digit codes as children. The state codes starting with A amd M are numerous and confusing. I never write TX here, but do this

Indeed, Fort Collins is hardly a major metro area. Wiki says "Fort Collins is the fifth most populous city in the State of Colorado and the 185th most populous city in the United States. The United States Census Bureau estimates that in 2005 the population of the City of Fort Collins was 128,026 (185th most populous U.S. city),] the population of the Fort Collins-Loveland Metropolitan Statistical Area was 271,927 (163rd most populous MSA). If it were not for its adopted son John Denver, Colorado would be less well known.

Fort Collins is a solid place but maybe not for everyone. It has a strong university (CSU) that CMU can't compare to. Sure people are going to flame me for saying this but in the US CMU would be comparable to a junior college. Hewlett Packard is the largest employer. The Colorado Front Range as the region is called is rated very high for quality of life and highly educated. Boulder county to the south has the highest concentration of PHD's in the country if not world. The air and rivers are very clean. It's a great place to hike, kayak, camp, and ride bicycles etc. Infinitely cleaner environment and safer roads than CM. Downside is that its surrounded by ranch country and gets cold in the winter. Some might call it a little boring. Also no bargirls and soapy massage but a nice small town kind of place to live with various microbrew restaurants and college town feel.

[denissr]

I visited Thailand 2 years ago, and am thinking of longer visit, maybe I would like to live there. I wonder if my arrival or departure will make much difference to anyone.

[5246jlg]

Thanks everyone for your input (and the time taken for the added observations about Fort Collins, CO "USA" [sorry about that chief!]). I apologize if the part about Thai guys dating preferences seemed a slight. The original posting was a collaboration between the wife and I. I had promised her I would edit for grammer but not for content. Her intent was to be funny (hence the smiley face) but you know how cross culture humor goes. I'll never forget the first time my Thai wife called someone fat in english to their face while smiling! Think of her comment more like "guys don't make passes at girls who wear glasses" here in western culture.

We really hope to return to CM at the end of the 3 yr deadline we set for ourselves and wish all the best of luck and happiness!

5246jlg

[Pantip]

I have been living in Thailand for over 30 years running my own successful business. I have lived and worked in many countries and ‘on balance’ Thailand is second to none.

I would recommend this country to any young working person who has the guts, fortitude, strength of character and ability to accept and adapt to a forever changing world.

I would not recommend this country to anybody who is conservative by nature, lives in the past (old fashioned?), is not self reliant and has a ‘welfare state’ attitude of mind.

The exception to the above are retirees who, very wisely, come to Thailand to pass their last few years in peaceful bliss before kicking the bucket and passing into their next life.