Tips On Applying The Tone Rules

[mynextgig]

I wonder if anyone has any handy tips on how i can improve my reading ability, specifically applying the tone rules.

I know all the sonorant initial and final sounds and their classes without thinking too much about it now. I also know all the vowel and dipthong sounds, not quite as fluently as the consonants but i am getting better. But when it comes applying the tone rules, even though i can recite them, it takes me ages to work out each syllable.

So for those of you that have mastered this, would you share some of the tips that you used to master this without turning every syllable into a puzzle.

Thx

Edited October 14, 2008 by mynextgig

[sigeena]

Practise practise practise.

If you have a teacher, sometimes you should just write out long streams of gibberish words and just rattle them off. And be ready for correction.

Example...

1. กะ กิ กึ กุ โกะ เกะ แกะ เกาะ

2. กา กี กื กู โก เก แก กอ

3. กัน กิน กึน กุน กน เกน แกน

4. กาบ กิบ กึบ กุบ กบ เกบ แกบ

5. กั่น กั้น กั๊น กั๋น

As you can see, it's gibberish, but it'll drill in the tones. It's practise and drilling, I guess. maybe 20 hours of good hard work?

[DavidHouston]

Practise practise practise.

If you have a teacher, sometimes you should just write out long streams of gibberish words and just rattle them off. And be ready for correction.

Example...

1. กะ กิ กึ กุ โกะ เกะ แกะ เกาะ

2. กา กี กื กู โก เก แก กอ

3. กัน กิน กึน กุน กน เกน แกน

4. กาบ กิบ กึบ กุบ กบ เกบ แกบ

5. กั่น กั้น กั๊น กั๋น

As you can see, it's gibberish, but it'll drill in the tones. It's practise and drilling, I guess. maybe 20 hours of good hard work?

Great idea. And, here is a book that will help with the practice. See attachments

[grandpops]

Repetition and rote learning is a very important part of drilling these tones.

If some of the words are jibberish and you approach it purely from a tonal excercise it is easier. There is then not the distraction of trying to think or remember the meaning of the words themselves nor the meaning of the passage.

Its a vital part of learning Thai and all school books use it. Grab a few books off your children if you have any.

Nice to make my first post on here today. I read this thread a lot but only just started posting when my staff showed me how to use it!

[rch1023]

Tones.xlsI attach an Excel file which I have made up for my own use. It does not use the Thai order of tones, but it does illustrate the consonant coupling which takes place. I have checked the detail with several Thais, but am still open to correction.

If anyone can advise me how to manipulate Thai characters under Perl, I could turn it into a dynamic web page and let it generate all the feasible syllables.

- Roger -

[kriswillems]

Tones.xlsI attach an Excel file which I have made up for my own use. It does not use the Thai order of tones, but it does illustrate the consonant coupling which takes place. I have checked the detail with several Thais, but am still open to correction.

If anyone can advise me how to manipulate Thai characters under Perl, I could turn it into a dynamic web page and let it generate all the feasible syllables.

- Roger -

The last word on row 4 and row 17 are not correct.

[rch1023]

Tones.xlsI attach an Excel file which I have made up for my own use. It does not use the Thai order of tones, but it does illustrate the consonant coupling which takes place. I have checked the detail with several Thais, but am still open to correction.

If anyone can advise me how to manipulate Thai characters under Perl, I could turn it into a dynamic web page and let it generate all the feasible syllables.

- Roger -

The last word on row 4 and row 17 are not correct.

Thank you. Can you give me a correction please, and I will post an update.

- Roger -

[kriswillems]

Tones.xlsI attach an Excel file which I have made up for my own use. It does not use the Thai order of tones, but it does illustrate the consonant coupling which takes place. I have checked the detail with several Thais, but am still open to correction.

If anyone can advise me how to manipulate Thai characters under Perl, I could turn it into a dynamic web page and let it generate all the feasible syllables.

- Roger -

The last word on row 4 and row 17 are not correct.

Thank you. Can you give me a correction please, and I will post an update.

- Roger -

The last word on row 4 has falling ton the way you write it : ค่าน

If you want it to have high tone it should be: ค้าน

The last word on row 17 has falling tone the way you write it: คาก

If you want it to have high tone it should be: ค้าก

Attached you'll find a tone chart I ever made.

tone2.pdf

[mynextgig]

The last word on row 4 has falling ton the way you write it : ค่าน

If you want it to have high tone it should be: ค้าน

The last word on row 17 has falling tone the way you write it: คาก

If you want it to have high tone it should be: ค้าก

Attached you'll find a tone chart I ever made.

Great Chart Kris ! Not as busy as the one i had.

Thx

Edited October 24, 2008 by mynextgig

[kriswillems]

I tried to make a simple chart based on the similarities between the classes.

If you look at it this way you can summarize the tone rules in a few lines:

1. syllable has a tone mark : follow the tone mark

------ EXCEPTION: initial consonant is low class: take the next tone mark

2. syllable doesn't have a tone mark:

----- 2.1 life syllable: mid tone

-----------EXCEPTION: initial consonant is high class: rising tone

----- 2.2 dead syllable: low tone

-----------EXCEPTION: initial consonant is low class

------------------------------long vowel: falling tone

------------------------------short vowel: high tone

[mynextgig]

I tried to make a simple chart based on the similarities between the classes.

If you look at it this way you can summarize the tone rules in a few lines:

1. syllable has a tone mark : follow the tone mark

------ EXCEPTION: initial consonant is low class: take the next tone mark

2. syllable doesn't have a tone mark:

----- 2.1 life syllable: mid tone

-----------EXCEPTION: initial consonant is high class: rising tone

----- 2.2 dead syllable: low tone

-----------EXCEPTION: initial consonant is low class

------------------------------long vowel: falling tone

------------------------------short vowel: high tone

Kris,

Just one very minor amendment to the line regarding Short Vowels.

Short Vowels = Any vowel with the following :- ...... (with a single exception being -ัว)

[5tash]

Short Vowels = Any vowel with the following :- ...... (with a single exception being -ัว)

"-ัว" is considered a long vowel diphthong isn't it? "ัวะ" would be it's shorter counterpart.

[kriswillems]

Kris,

Just one very minor amendment to the line regarding Short Vowels.

Short Vowels = Any vowel with the following :- ...... (with a single exception being -ัว)

short vowels: all vowels with ะ or ็ / -ั -ิ -ึ -ุ ฤ

The / is important.

I used a / to separate the line in 2 pieces:

Piece 1: all vowels with ะ or ็

Piece 2: -ั -ิ -ึ -ุ ฤ

So, this doesn't include -ัว (which is of course a long vowel)

It should have written is more clear. Maybe like this?

short vowels: all vowels with ะ or ็ OR any of the following vowels: -ั -ิ -ึ -ุ ฤ

Or maybe like this:

short vowels are:

1. Any vowel containing ะ or ็

2. Any of the following vowels: -ั -ิ -ึ -ุ ฤ

Edited October 24, 2008 by kriswillems

[5tash]

short vowels are:

1. Any vowel containing ะ or ็

2. Any of the following vowels: -ั -ิ -ึ -ุ ฤ

Kris,

great job with tones table.

There is one word where "ฤ" produces a long vowel sound ("เรอ"), in the word "ฤกษ์" (เริก).

Sorry to nit-pick.

[mynextgig]

Kris,

Just one very minor amendment to the line regarding Short Vowels.

Short Vowels = Any vowel with the following :- ...... (with a single exception being -ัว)

short vowels: all vowels with ะ or ็ / -ั -ิ -ึ -ุ ฤ

The / is important.

I used a / to separate the line in 2 pieces:

Piece 1: all vowels with ะ or ็

Piece 2: -ั -ิ -ึ -ุ ฤ

So, this doesn't include -ัว (which is of course a long vowel)

It should have written is more clear. Maybe like this?

short vowels: all vowels with ะ or ็ OR any of the following vowels: -ั -ิ -ึ -ุ ฤ

Or maybe like this:

short vowels are:

1. Any vowel containing ะ or ็

2. Any of the following vowels: -ั -ิ -ึ -ุ ฤ

What i meant was Any vowel containing -ั -ิ -ึ -ุ ะ or ็ with the exception of -ัว will be a short vowel.

[5tash]

What i meant was Any vowel containing -ั -ิ -ึ -ุ ะ or ็ with the exception of -ัว will be a short vowel.

"ิ" in words such as "เดิน" is also a long vowel.

EDIT; "ก็" is also generally spoken with a long vowel sound.

Edited October 24, 2008 by 5tash

[rch1023]

Tones.xlsI attach an Excel file which I have made up for my own use. It does not use the Thai order of tones, but it does illustrate the consonant coupling which takes place. I have checked the detail with several Thais, but am still open to correction.

If anyone can advise me how to manipulate Thai characters under Perl, I could turn it into a dynamic web page and let it generate all the feasible syllables.

- Roger -

The last word on row 4 and row 17 are not correct.

Thank you. Can you give me a correction please, and I will post an update.

- Roger -

The last word on row 4 has falling ton the way you write it : ค่าน

If you want it to have high tone it should be: ค้าน

The last word on row 17 has falling tone the way you write it: คาก

If you want it to have high tone it should be: ค้าก

Attached you'll find a tone chart I ever made.

I attach an updated table with your corrections: thank you. My source for this information is "Learning Thai (A Unique and Practical Approach)": ISBN 974-276-135-3" together with private advice about apparent typographical errors.

Tones.xls.

- Roger -

[tgeezer]

คำตาย คำสระสั้นที่ไม่มีตัวสะกดพวกหนึ่ง/และคำในมาตรา กก กด กบ

คำเป็น คำที่นอกจากคำตาย

Just practising some typing.

Live words starting with high class or mid class consonents follow the tone markers.

อ่ อ้ อ๊ อ๋

Live words starting with low class consonents take the tone one higher in the scale than the tone marker.

อ่=เสียงโท อ้=เสียงตรี

Dead words starting with high or mid class consonents are pronounced in the low tone. เสียงเอก

Dead words starting with a low class consonent are pronounced in the high tone.เสียงตรี

That is about all my book says on the subject I hope that there is no more.

Incidentally เดิน อิ replaces อ in the vowel เออ its place now being ocupied by น, otherwise you might be tempted to think the the vowel was เอ

If you a word with อ็ over the first consonent it is in place of อะ which symbol has a closing consonent where it should be, ie.แข็งotherwise you might be tempted to think that it was a long vowel. One of two exceptions is ก็ where the whole vowel เอาะ has been cut.

My tip is to get the live words weighed-off first, but you will soon see it anyway, obviously no tonemarks are required for dead words or normally used.

[tgeezer]

คำตาย คำสระสั้นที่ไม่มีตัวสะกดพวกหนึ่ง/และคำในมาตรา กก กด กบ

คำเป็น คำที่นอกจากคำตาย

Just practising some typing.

Live words starting with high class or mid class consonents follow the tone markers.

อ่ อ้ อ๊ อ๋

Live words starting with low class consonents take the tone one higher in the scale than the tone marker.

อ่=เสียงโท อ้=เสียงตรี

Dead words starting with high or mid class consonents are pronounced in the low tone. เสียงเอก

Dead words starting with a low class consonent are pronounced in the third tone.เสียงตรี except if the they have a long vowel when they are pronounced in the second tone. เสียงโท

That is about all my book says on the subject I hope that there is no more.

Live words you use the base tone or follow the tone mark.

Dead words, most are low but if the first consonent is low class, think a little, high or falling.