Was I Given The Wrong Visa?

[MuayThaiGuy]

Hey

I'm here in Thailand training Muay Thai. Before I came here, I went to the Thai embassy in Ottawa, Canada and presented them with an invitation letter from a Muay Thai camp as well as the school registration. I was given a non-immigrant type "O" visa and told that I didn't have to leave the country, but rather, I could just get it extended here in Thailand. The visa is set to expire on the 24th but why was I given a type "O" visa rather than the "ED" visa? Was this a mistake on their part?

What should I do? It's a single entry visa as well. I read that those can be extended for 12 months. If that's the case, what sort of documents would I need to show tomorrow when I head to immigration?

Thanks in advance..

Bill

[jdinasia]

this is a "don't quote me on this" post

I do not believe that they issue non-ed visas to non-academic students.

The non-O and non-ed allow for the same length of stay etc and I know of no muay thai school that can get letters issued from the MoEd for extensions.

[Mario2008]

Yes they do and I belive OP should have gotten a ED-visa, but if it realy matters is something else.

Getting an extension on the basis of education is more difficult than for other reasons. You will probably have to report at immigration every 90 days with a letter confirming yu are still training. But extensions for education is not something know a lot about. Especialy in the OP case. Better get advice from someone with more experience.

Your school should know the procedure.

[NHJ]

don't worry it'll be fine, the type of visa doesn't matter for studying, even on a tourist visa you could do it.

be sure to see with your school and immigration one month at least before your current permission of stay finishes, if needed the immigration can change your visa to match your purpose of stay.

extension : 1900 bath

change of visa and extension : 2000 + 1900

[Mario2008]

On any visa you can study, but OP needs an extention of stay based on study.

He doesn't need a change of visa, as he has a valid non-immigrant. A change of visa is onluy required when you are on a visa exempt entry or tourist visa and want to convert to a non-immigrant visa.

You can ask for an extension up to one month before your permisison to stay expire. Don't wait till te last day, in case they wan to see some documents you might have forgotten or didn't know about. In worse case when you are turned down you would need time to get another visa from another country.

[Tod Daniels]

They DO issue Non-Immigrant Type ED visas for the purpose of studying Muay Thai. I believe a Type O will not get the in country extension and it will require the border runs every 90 days to keep it alive. It will have to be changed to a Type ED for in country extensions.

I recently had another student in my thai language class who went to a thai consulate in Canada and was issued a Type B visa, even though he had the paperwork and documentation completed for a Type ED.

He went to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs here in Bangkok with the supporting documents showing he was issued the wrong type of visa and they changed into a Type ED for free.

If you've got the letter from your school stating you're studying Muay Thai for 'x' amount of time, I think you can get it changed to an ED Visa at the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Bangkok.

This was the second time I saw them change the status of a visa into an ED because people were issued the wrong type at a thai consulate out of the country.

Good luck. Go hash it out NOW, Don't wait, as it can't help. If you can; take a good thai/english speaker with you, as the engrish language skills at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs are less than you might expect.

If you can't find their number and address send me a PM and I'll reply back.

[Mario2008]

A visa is nothing more than a permission to knock on the door and ask for entrance to Thailand. OP already has his permision to stay in Thailand and can change his reason to stay to education without the need to go the the Foreign Office in Bangkok. Ohter posts also suggest he can just ask for an extension of stay based on study.

[storminnorman]

OP already has his permision to stay in Thailand and can change his reason to stay to education without the need to go the the Foreign Office in Bangkok.

OP is not changing his reason to stay. He entered to study Mauy Thai. That is why he was granted his visa and that is the reason he gives when applying to extend his permission to stay.

He was issued with the correct visa type but possibly the wrong category. I agree with Mario that it is now of no consequence.

Are Muay Thai schools registered as educational establishments? If yes then ED would be correct but I doubt if most consular staff would have a clue. The answer will have a bearing on the supporting documentation he should provide when applying for the extension.

[MuayThaiGuy]

This is very frusterating.

I just got back from the immigration office in Phuket town and the officer said that I can extend it for a max. of 7 days??

He also said that "Muay Thai" does NOT classify as "education". I have many friends who are living and training in Thailand RIGHT NOW on an education visa for Muay Thai. The officer at the Thai embassy in my city ALSO confirmed that Muay Thai does indeed classify as "education" providing that they're registered as a school (in this case, they ARE).

I went to the Patong Beach office and he said that he can't extend it there.

What should I do now? Do I have to book a flight BACK to Bangkok and go to the ministry of foreign affiars (as one helpful poster stated)?

If that's the case (I don't mind doing that), but am I able to get a 30 day extension for 1900 baht right here in Phuket from a single entry non-imm type "o" visa? I plan in going back to Bangkok in 30 days anyway so that wouldn't be an inconvience in the least.

And as a last resort, what am I able to do? Can I leave the country and just do visa runs like everyone else? If so, with my non-imm. type "o" visa, am I able to extend/get a new one every 90 days even though it's a single entry?

Help! lol ..

Thanks ..

[Mario2008]

On a non-immigrant you can only get an extension of stay for 7 days, besides the extension for one year.

Going to the Foreign Office won't do you good, as that is not the problem. The problem is that immigration doesn't consider your training school as education.

Not sure if you could try again somewhere else with the help of the school. Otherwise your best option would be to get a new nonimmigrant visa with a letter from te school.

Edit:

you have a signle non-immigrant and can only apply once for permisison to enter. You need to go to an embassy or consulate for a new visa. You won't have any problems with that.

Edited October 16, 2008 by Mario2008

[jdinasia]

I hope the OP checks back in with us after this finishes to let us know how it worked out.

[ubonjoe]

Did you go with any documents from your school. Here is a list of requirements from immigration website. You will need these at a minimum. Forget about trip to Ministry of Forign Affairs it will not help. Even if you were on an ED visa you would still need the same documents listed. Its possible you will not get a one year extension but instead recieve a 90 day extension that will have to be renewed every 90 days.

Documents for the application for further stay to study / work in Private Education Institutes.

Required Documents

In case of student

1. Immigration Form 7 (Tor Mor 7)

2. Copy of passport

3. A 4 cm. X 6 cm. Photograph

4. 1,900 baht application fee

5. A certified document from the governor of the province in which the Private Educational Institute is located or from the Government Department or equivalent that takes care of the institute, document must contain details about the applicant:

Name, Family name

Age

Nationality

Passport number

Total academic years - curriculum - funding

6. Education transcript of the applicant - length of further stay

7. School license (Sor Shor 2)

8. The Permit / certificate to be school manager (Sor Shor 5) or Principal (Sor Shor 8)

The officials reserve the rights to examine or ask for additional documents if necessary

The following is link to police order. Page 5 section 7.8 also lists requirements.

http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/ba...p?page=service#

Edited October 16, 2008 by ubonjoe

[MuayThaiGuy]

You need to go to an embassy or consulate for a new visa. You won't have any problems with that.

Embassy or consulate? Within Thailand? Please elaborate..

[Mario2008]

A Thai embassy or consulate will always be outside Thailand.

[jdinasia]

There are no Thai embassies/consulates inside of Thailand.

Personally I would start with your local immigration office and see what they said.

[Mario2008]

He already went there and they turned him down.

Op can try to go again with someone of the school or have someone of the school contact immigration and let the school try and sort it out in Thai. But most likely he will have to get a new visa.

[jdinasia]

He already went there and they turned him down.

Op can try to go again with someone of the school or have someone of the school contact immigration and let the school try and sort it out in Thai. But most likely he will have to get a new visa.

Opps I missed that post,

it was exactly like I expected from the beginning.

Talk to people running the school and find out if/how they have gotten any extensions for 'students'. If it really can be done they should be able to get it done.

[Tod Daniels]

ED Visas are extended ALL the time at Suan Plu, for foreign monks studying buddhism, missionaries from other countries trying to convert the thais, people attending Muay Thai school and surprise even attending english language classes here in the glorious "Land 'O Thais".

I stand by my assertions that he was issued the WRONG status of visa by the Consulate in Ottawa and that the Ministry of Foreign Affairs can and will change it if he has his letter from the Muay Thai School that he used when he got the visa in Canada. IF his documents are in order, the letter from the school verifying enrollment, etc, they WILL change the status to a Type-ED. Believe me this isn't the first time a consulate out of the country issued the wrong status of visa to someone.

If I hadn't seen the stamps in some students' passports from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs showing the incorrect visa marked invalid and the new visa status as ED for some students who got wrong visas outside this country I wouldn't even mention it.

[Mario2008]

OP's extension was denied because they didn't considered his training to be education. Not because he was issued the wrong visa.

[storminnorman]

OP's extension was denied because they didn't considered his training to be education. Not because he was issued the wrong visa.

My guess is he went without the proper documentation. Posts here one day. Goes to Immigration the next. Evidently unprepared.

[jdinasia]

OP's extension was denied because they didn't considered his training to be education. Not because he was issued the wrong visa.

My guess is he went without the proper documentation. Posts here one day. Goes to Immigration the next. Evidently unprepared.

From the OP

I just got back from the immigration office in Phuket town and the officer said that I can extend it for a max. of 7 days??

He also said that "Muay Thai" does NOT classify as "education". I have many friends who are living and training in Thailand RIGHT NOW on an education visa for Muay Thai. The officer at the Thai embassy in my city ALSO confirmed that Muay Thai does indeed classify as "education" providing that they're registered as a school (in this case, they ARE).

does that seem to you that if the OP had other documentation that they would have dome something different?

I thought the Ministry of Education needed to approve of extensions on ED visas and that they didn't often do so for non-academic reasons.

The OP may have friends that are here on non-ed's (multi's even) but are they on extensions or making 90 day runs? We may never know. Chances are if his school can't get him cleared through Phuket Immigration that he will have to travel for a new non-imm visa out of the country.

[digitalchromakey]

This is very frusterating.

I just got back from the immigration office in Phuket town and the officer said that I can extend it for a max. of 7 days??

He also said that "Muay Thai" does NOT classify as "education". I have many friends who are living and training in Thailand RIGHT NOW on an education visa for Muay Thai. The officer at the Thai embassy in my city ALSO confirmed that Muay Thai does indeed classify as "education" providing that they're registered as a school (in this case, they ARE).

I went to the Patong Beach office and he said that he can't extend it there.

What should I do now? Do I have to book a flight BACK to Bangkok and go to the ministry of foreign affiars (as one helpful poster stated)?

If that's the case (I don't mind doing that), but am I able to get a 30 day extension for 1900 baht right here in Phuket from a single entry non-imm type "o" visa? I plan in going back to Bangkok in 30 days anyway so that wouldn't be an inconvience in the least.

And as a last resort, what am I able to do? Can I leave the country and just do visa runs like everyone else? If so, with my non-imm. type "o" visa, am I able to extend/get a new one every 90 days even though it's a single entry?

Phuket Immigration are rarely helpful. You haven't answered the question, did you take all the correct papers to Phuket Town?

If you did and they turned you down, then your best bet is a quick border run to Ranong for a 30 day Tourist Visa Exempt stamp (you can enter Thailand for up to 90 days in six months on these stamps).

Your other option is to go to Penang or KL and try to get a two month tourist visa and which you can extend for an extra 30 days at immigration (Patong Immigration can deal with this one)

[storminnorman]

does that seem to you that if the OP had other documentation that they would have dome something different?

Yes

Blindingly obvious he wasn't provided with an appropriately certified letter to support the visa. If he had he wouldn't need to bother posting here and would have a nice new stamp in his passport.

[jdinasia]

does that seem to you that if the OP had other documentation that they would have dome something different?

Yes

Blindingly obvious he wasn't provided with an appropriately certified letter to support the visa. If he had he wouldn't need to bother posting here and would have a nice new stamp in his passport.

Blindingly obvious only that he has the wrong type of visa for ANY study extension and that at least in the Phuket Immigration office (I always found them quite easy to deal with) that being in a Muay Thai camp training does not qualify as 'education'

[storminnorman]

Blindingly obvious only that he has the wrong type of visa for ANY study extension and that at least in the Phuket Immigration office (I always found them quite easy to deal with) that being in a Muay Thai camp training does not qualify as 'education'

So the boxing gloves are off?

OP has the right visa type but maybe the wrong category. However it can be extended with the correct paperwork. Show us where it says otherwise.

According to Hull (and OP) ED should have been issued. Unlike them and you, I am loathe to suggest Ottawa are wrong. I do however, like Mario, say "so what".

Perhaps the OP can humour us by telling us what documentation he provided.

I'm not sure what relevance your experience of Phuket Immigration has.

When contradicting people provide facts or reasoned argument.

[jdinasia]

Blindingly obvious only that he has the wrong type of visa for ANY study extension and that at least in the Phuket Immigration office (I always found them quite easy to deal with) that being in a Muay Thai camp training does not qualify as 'education'

So the boxing gloves are off?

OP has the right visa type but maybe the wrong category. However it can be extended with the correct paperwork. Show us where it says otherwise.

According to Hull (and OP) ED should have been issued. Unlike them and you, I am loathe to suggest Ottawa are wrong. I do however, like Mario, say "so what".

Perhaps the OP can humour us by telling us what documentation he provided.

I'm not sure what relevance your experience of Phuket Immigration has.

When contradicting people provide facts or reasoned argument.

apparently you missed this quote the first time ...

I just got back from the immigration office in Phuket town and the officer said that I can extend it for a max. of 7 days??

He also said that "Muay Thai" does NOT classify as "education". I have many friends who are living and training in Thailand RIGHT NOW on an education visa for Muay Thai. The officer at the Thai embassy in my city ALSO confirmed that Muay Thai does indeed classify as "education" providing that they're registered as a school (in this case, they ARE).

OK ... so an IMMIGRATION official in Phuket says ... "no" (fact -- not opinion) He not only says no he says Muay Thai does NOT classify (sic) as education. (fact --- not opinion)

These things happened in Phuket where I lived not very long ago (and I still live in Thailand) thus my personal experience with the very same office, though anecdotal, is relevant.

What Hull says or what Ottawa says has little bearing when faced with life on the ground in Thailand. They can get you through the door but they can mess you up as well

BTW there seems to always be a difference between how Royal Thai Embassies and Honorary consulates do things

[MuayThaiGuy]

Hey guys

When I went to Phuket Immigration..

I went with my passport, the appropriate photos, an invitation letter from the camp (school), the camps school registration, the camps registration from the "sport authority of Thailand", an personalized letter from the schools "director", and a signed photocopy of her ID etc..

Not that he even bothered to even look at any of it. He simply said "Muay Thai.. No ... cannot" ..

I know many people who DO have ED visas for Muay Thai so you CAN ..

I just had bad luck and got an ignorant officer..

One helpful member called the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, explained my situation and apparently I should be able to go there, show the documentation I showed in Ottawa and they should be able to switch it for me. I'm going to call myself in about an hour to confirm.

If not, what would the next best option be?

Just a visa run or a visit to the consulate in Penang to get a new ED visa? Penang or Cambodia - which is better?

[ubonjoe]

Your list of documents don't seem complete looking at the list I posted yesterday.

If you know somebody that has got an extension based upon Muay Thai ask them what documents they supplied to immigration.

Yes you probably got an uncooperative officer. You might try again but with all the domuments required and not mention Muay Thai until they look at your paperwork.

You can go to the MFA and they might change your visa but it won't give you any more time on your current visa. Only immigration can do that.

[digitalchromakey]

When I went to Phuket Immigration.. I went with my passport, the appropriate photos, an invitation letter from the camp (school), the camps school registration, the camps registration from the "sport authority of Thailand", an personalized letter from the schools "director", and a signed photocopy of her ID etc..

Not that he even bothered to even look at any of it. He simply said "Muay Thai.. No ... cannot" ..

I know many people who DO have ED visas for Muay Thai so you CAN ..

I just had bad luck and got an ignorant officer..

One helpful member called the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, explained my situation and apparently I should be able to go there, show the documentation I showed in Ottawa and they should be able to switch it for me. I'm going to call myself in about an hour to confirm.

The fundemental problem is that even if you can change your visa to a non ED, you still have to deal with Phuket Immigration, who are not interested in giving you an extension based on the papers you are submitting.

A non Ed visa status won't change Phuket Immigration's position on an extension; you must fix your paperwork, or go on a visa run.

[MuayThaiGuy]

If I do a visa run, would it just be easier to apply for a 60 day tourist visa in Penang, than extend it for another 30 days here in Thailand. Then once that's up, am I able to do 3 more 30 day extensions by leaving and re-entering the country (stamps)?

If I wanted to stay longer than that, would I then be able to get a new tourist visa or a new non-immigrant one at the Thai embassy in Penang?