Where Is Gold Going In This Market

[VegasVic]

At least Gold & Silver is & always will be money.

In recent days it seems I have read many articles of countries who feel the same way.

Many seem to be losing faith in Paper/Fiat Currency or at least hedging it with money.

sure! i can vivivly imagine our wives paying for steaks at the butcher and a loaf of bread in a bakery with Krüger Rands or Maple Leaves. soon the bars in Pattaya will demand that the bar fines are settled in gold dust

What I was thinking was that as an investment it would never be worthless.

Flying, it all depends on your definition of "worthless". my definition of "worth" respectively "worthless" differs from yours. in my view gold was worthless² for those who bought in 1979/80 and looked at its value 20 years later. but even now -nearly 30 years later- the afore-mentioned poor buggers look at a yield equivalent to nada, zilch, rien, muffat, niente, nichts... ZERO (inflation rate not even taken into consideration!). and that applies even to those goldbugs who bought at rather low prices let's say in 1990 and looked at there gold a decade later. was there a preservation of capital or value?

not only since years but since decades i hear the goldbug fairy tales "fiat money is <deleted>, gold will be x- or y- or z-thousand dollars an ounce!" i listen to them and i smile but congratulate those who bought a few years ago and are happy now. of course it goes without saying that the present goldbugs all bought in 2000 at 260 and sold in march 2008 a 1,032

"Of course it goes without saying that that the present goldbugs all bought in 2000 at $260 and sold in March 2008 at $1,320" Speaking of which, were is Livininlos and Palm

[VegasVic]

At least Gold & Silver is & always will be money.

In recent days it seems I have read many articles of countries who feel the same way.

Many seem to be losing faith in Paper/Fiat Currency or at least hedging it with money.

sure! i can vivivly imagine our wives paying for steaks at the butcher and a loaf of bread in a bakery with Krüger Rands or Maple Leaves. soon the bars in Pattaya will demand that the bar fines are settled in gold dust

What I was thinking was that as an investment it would never be worthless.

Flying, it all depends on your definition of "worthless". my definition of "worth" respectively "worthless" differs from yours. in my view gold was worthless² for those who bought in 1979/80 and looked at its value 20 years later. but even now -nearly 30 years later- the afore-mentioned poor buggers look at a yield equivalent to nada, zilch, rien, muffat, niente, nichts... ZERO (inflation rate not even taken into consideration!). and that applies even to those goldbugs who bought at rather low prices let's say in 1990 and looked at there gold a decade later. was there a preservation of capital or value?

not only since years but since decades i hear the goldbug fairy tales "fiat money is <deleted>, gold will be x- or y- or z-thousand dollars an ounce!" i listen to them and i smile but congratulate those who bought a few years ago and are happy now. of course it goes without saying that the present goldbugs all bought in 2000 at 260 and sold in march 2008 a 1,032

"Of course it goes without saying that that the present goldbugs all bought in 2000 at $260 and sold in March 2008 at $1,320" Speaking of which, were is Livininlos and Palm

Correction: $1320 should read $1032!

[flying]

Gold has very little "real" demand unlike base metals that have actual quantifyable industrial demand that is directly linked to the price of those metals at any time. Don't get me wrong, gold does have some industrial demand (although this demand has been steadily dropping for 10 years now), but it is only about 10% of the actual ammount mined annually. The price of gold basically revolves around the world jewelry markets and people who hoard the metal believing that the world will come to and end and that fiat money will have no value

I whole heartily agree that gold has very little *industrial* demand.

But I am rather counting on it being an irrational market like you said.

The mere fact that folks hoard it as you said & the fact that recently countries have bought large amounts of it say there is a demand even if there is no actual industrial use for it.

Not to worry though as I have said before my position in gold is small as I am a bit more bullish on Silver. Not because of Silvers higher usage factor ( although that is nice ) but because I think it will be easier to turn a profit from it. But we will see

[VegasVic]

Gold has very little "real" demand unlike base metals that have actual quantifyable industrial demand that is directly linked to the price of those metals at any time. Don't get me wrong, gold does have some industrial demand (although this demand has been steadily dropping for 10 years now), but it is only about 10% of the actual ammount mined annually. The price of gold basically revolves around the world jewelry markets and people who hoard the metal believing that the world will come to and end and that fiat money will have no value

I whole heartily agree that gold has very little *industrial* demand.

But I am rather counting on it being an irrational market like you said.

The mere fact that folks hoard it as you said & the fact that recently countries have bought large amounts of it say there is a demand even if there is no actual industrial use for it.

Not to worry though as I have said before my position in gold is small as I am a bit more bullish on Silver. Not because of Silvers higher usage factor ( although that is nice ) but because I think it will be easier to turn a profit from it. But we will see

Flying, As I have posted before I tend to agree with you about Silver (certainly as opposed to gold) because I feel that there may very well be a shortage of silver when industrial productioin ramps up in late 2009-2010, however as I also posted before, I think that there is plenty of time to buy and you will find that Silver goes lower from here! GLTY

[cloudhopper]

I would argue that currency does not have any rational value either and is even more vulnerable to subjective valuations as a medium of exchange than PM. Currency in some form will always be the day-to-day medium of exchange but it's possible that in the event of a widespread collapse of the current monetary system PM could prove to be, subjectively to parties in an exchange, a better preserver of capital than currency. I certainly hope that doesn't happen, but it seems imprudent not to prepare for the possibility since the potential harm is huge even if the probability is low.

[flying]

Hey, do you mind me asking what type of physical silver you prefer? I have not been stacking for very long, and only have Sliver Canadian Maples. The spread is higher for 1 oz coins, but I dont mind paying the premium.

Hi VIBE

I was getting ASE for a good price & small % above spot. But then I now have a good supply of generic rounds. They are very nice & have a very small premium from my dealer. But so far all rounds no bars or 90% stuff.

I think as long as it reads one troy ounce & .999 fine silver its fine with me.

Good Luck to You!

[flying]

CHINA PLANS TO BUY 4000 tonnes of gold

(Ho_Yen_Tsi) Nov 19, 12:33

CHINA PLANS TO BUY 4000 tonnes of gold

What is absolutely certain is that China must and is diversifying its foreign reserves out of the US Dollar and into other major world currencies, including gold. It is also well nigh certain that China has for sometime been secretly buying gold...and most certainly will continue to accumulate gold until is reaches its prudent target. However, we need to remember China's US dollar reserves will continue to mount DAILY as long as the US Trade Deficit is a reality. To be sure, the ONLY way for the US Trade Deficit to reverse is to sharply devaluate the greenback, which would propel the POG into orbit....that much faster.

Summation of the Monumental ramifications of China's necessity to buy gold:

- China’s intention to buy 4,000 tonnes of gold must be put into perspective. The total yearly increase in gold supply from mines is about 2,600 tonnes. THEREFORE, China’s demand represents 154% of the annual new supply, with not an oz left for anyone else.

- China's gold purchases will continue unabated for years to come, during which in my opinion the POG may reach US$1200 to US$1500/oz. – ONCE THE US DOLLAR STRENGTH anomaly RUNS ITS COURSE.

- Any respite in the rising POG is an opportunity to buy more before the price surges even faster and higher.

China PBOC Mulls Raising Gold Reserve By 4,000 Tons - Report

BEIJING (Dow Jones)--China's central bank is considering raising its gold reserve by 4,000 metric tons from 600 tons to diversify risks brought by the country's huge foreign exchange reserves, the Guangzhou Daily reported, citing unnamed industry people in Hong Kong.

The Guangzhou-based newspaper didn't elaborate on the plan.

China's forex reserves, at US$1.9056 trillion at the end of September, is the world's largest. U.S. dollar-denominated assets, including U.S. treasury bonds and mortgage agency bonds, account for a big proportion of the forex reserves.

[lannarebirth]

CHINA PLANS TO BUY 4000 tonnes of gold

(Ho_Yen_Tsi) Nov 19, 12:33

CHINA PLANS TO BUY 4000 tonnes of gold

What is absolutely certain is that China must and is diversifying its foreign reserves out of the US Dollar and into other major world currencies, including gold. It is also well nigh certain that China has for sometime been secretly buying gold...and most certainly will continue to accumulate gold until is reaches its prudent target. However, we need to remember China's US dollar reserves will continue to mount DAILY as long as the US Trade Deficit is a reality. To be sure, the ONLY way for the US Trade Deficit to reverse is to sharply devaluate the greenback, which would propel the POG into orbit....that much faster.

Summation of the Monumental ramifications of China's necessity to buy gold:

- China's intention to buy 4,000 tonnes of gold must be put into perspective. The total yearly increase in gold supply from mines is about 2,600 tonnes. THEREFORE, China's demand represents 154% of the annual new supply, with not an oz left for anyone else.

- China's gold purchases will continue unabated for years to come, during which in my opinion the POG may reach US$1200 to US$1500/oz. – ONCE THE US DOLLAR STRENGTH anomaly RUNS ITS COURSE.

- Any respite in the rising POG is an opportunity to buy more before the price surges even faster and higher.

China PBOC Mulls Raising Gold Reserve By 4,000 Tons - Report

BEIJING (Dow Jones)--China's central bank is considering raising its gold reserve by 4,000 metric tons from 600 tons to diversify risks brought by the country's huge foreign exchange reserves, the Guangzhou Daily reported, citing unnamed industry people in Hong Kong.

The Guangzhou-based newspaper didn't elaborate on the plan.

China's forex reserves, at US$1.9056 trillion at the end of September, is the world's largest. U.S. dollar-denominated assets, including U.S. treasury bonds and mortgage agency bonds, account for a big proportion of the forex reserves.

Hmmmm, how does one go about buying 400 tons secretly? And why tell everyone before you've done it?

BTW, the US trade deficit has started to reverse and should continue lower, maybe even sharply lower.

[flying]

Hmmmm, how does one go about buying 400 tons secretly? And why tell everyone before you've done it?

BTW, the US trade deficit has started to reverse and should continue lower, maybe even sharply lower.

Same thing I wondered but it is 4000 tons.

I would wonder why they would say ahead? It would only increase price.

Better to buy quietly.... then again how does a elephant jump in a bath tub without making a splash?

[VegasVic]

Hmmmm, how does one go about buying 400 tons secretly? And why tell everyone before you've done it?

BTW, the US trade deficit has started to reverse and should continue lower, maybe even sharply lower.

Same thing I wondered but it is 4000 tons.

I would wonder why they would say ahead? It would only increase price.

Better to buy quietly.... then again how does a elephant jump in a bath tub without making a splash?

Flying, The U.S. trade deficit has been shrinking as Lanna pointed out, but there wouldn't have been any devaluation of the Dollar in any event! I also noticed the Chinese announcement which spiked gold to over $760/ounce in Asian and European trading yesterday, but in todays U.S. trading gold went back to the mid $730's (still holding up better than I thought it would)! Iran and Saudi Arabia have also been buying gold as of late, and yet the price hasn't gone anywhere. The answer may lie in the questioning of Ben Bernanke by Congress the other day, when Ron Paul asked Mr. Bernanke if there had been any talk with other central bankers in Europe and elsewhere if they are considering tying gold to a basket of currencies, Mr. Bernanke answered emphatically NO! Then Rep. Paul asked Mr. Bernanke if the subject of gold ever comes up when he talks with the other central bankers around the globe and Bernanke answered that the only time it has come up was in reference to central banks selling gold. It could very well be that their are enough central banks selling gold so that Saudi, Iran and china can buy what they want without having any wild swings in the worldwide gold market.

[flying]

Flying, The U.S. trade deficit has been shrinking as Lanna pointed out, but there wouldn't have been any devaluation of the Dollar in any event! I also noticed the Chinese announcement which spiked gold to over $760/ounce in Asian and European trading yesterday, but in todays U.S. trading gold went back to the mid $730's (still holding up better than I thought it would)! Iran and Saudi Arabia have also been buying gold as of late, and yet the price hasn't gone anywhere. The answer may lie in the questioning of Ben Bernanke by Congress the other day, when Ron Paul asked Mr. Bernanke if there had been any talk with other central bankers in Europe and elsewhere if they are considering tying gold to a basket of currencies, Mr. Bernanke answered emphatically NO! Then Rep. Paul asked Mr. Bernanke if the subject of gold ever comes up when he talks with the other central bankers around the globe and Bernanke answered that the only time it has come up was in reference to central banks selling gold. It could very well be that their are enough central banks selling gold so that Saudi, Iran and china can buy what they want without having any wild swings in the worldwide gold market.

Yes I have notice that gold is range bound now between 720-760

Also I notice the asian markets as you mentioned.

The conspiricy folks of course say the US is squashing the price on purpose

No I do not believe that but I am sure market manipulation is available in any sector.

As for what Bernanke said I fully would expect him to say that.

It will be interesting these next few years to say the least.

[VegasVic]

Flying, The U.S. trade deficit has been shrinking as Lanna pointed out, but there wouldn't have been any devaluation of the Dollar in any event! I also noticed the Chinese announcement which spiked gold to over $760/ounce in Asian and European trading yesterday, but in todays U.S. trading gold went back to the mid $730's (still holding up better than I thought it would)! Iran and Saudi Arabia have also been buying gold as of late, and yet the price hasn't gone anywhere. The answer may lie in the questioning of Ben Bernanke by Congress the other day, when Ron Paul asked Mr. Bernanke if there had been any talk with other central bankers in Europe and elsewhere if they are considering tying gold to a basket of currencies, Mr. Bernanke answered emphatically NO! Then Rep. Paul asked Mr. Bernanke if the subject of gold ever comes up when he talks with the other central bankers around the globe and Bernanke answered that the only time it has come up was in reference to central banks selling gold. It could very well be that their are enough central banks selling gold so that Saudi, Iran and china can buy what they want without having any wild swings in the worldwide gold market.

Yes I have notice that gold is range bound now between 720-760

Also I notice the asian markets as you mentioned.

The conspiricy folks of course say the US is squashing the price on purpose

No I do not believe that but I am sure market manipulation is available in any sector.

As for what Bernanke said I fully would expect him to say that.

It will be interesting these next few years to say the least.

Flying, Mr.Bernanke was under oath before Congress yesterday, are you intimating that he did not tell Mr. Paul the truth about the other central bankers selling or talking about selling gold? Do you realize the seiousness of what a charge of lying to Congress under oath would do to this man, his career and potentially his freedom? You are sounding more like the typical gold bugs that think there is a international conspiracy to supress the price of gold, trust me when I tell you this, with all the kaos and havoc in the world financial markets most of these central bankers could care less about where gold closed at today or tomorrow or next week. You do realize that the only reason that gold got up to over $1000/ounce in the first place was because of the hedge funds manipulating the price upwards, just like they did in the oil markets? It is really quite amazing that gold has kept its head above $700/ounce , I guess you can thank Saudi Arabia, Iran and China for that

[flying]

Flying, The U.S. trade deficit has been shrinking as Lanna pointed out, but there wouldn't have been any devaluation of the Dollar in any event! I also noticed the Chinese announcement which spiked gold to over $760/ounce in Asian and European trading yesterday, but in todays U.S. trading gold went back to the mid $730's (still holding up better than I thought it would)! Iran and Saudi Arabia have also been buying gold as of late, and yet the price hasn't gone anywhere. The answer may lie in the questioning of Ben Bernanke by Congress the other day, when Ron Paul asked Mr. Bernanke if there had been any talk with other central bankers in Europe and elsewhere if they are considering tying gold to a basket of currencies, Mr. Bernanke answered emphatically NO! Then Rep. Paul asked Mr. Bernanke if the subject of gold ever comes up when he talks with the other central bankers around the globe and Bernanke answered that the only time it has come up was in reference to central banks selling gold. It could very well be that their are enough central banks selling gold so that Saudi, Iran and china can buy what they want without having any wild swings in the worldwide gold market.

Yes I have notice that gold is range bound now between 720-760

Also I notice the asian markets as you mentioned.

The conspiricy folks of course say the US is squashing the price on purpose

No I do not believe that but I am sure market manipulation is available in any sector.

As for what Bernanke said I fully would expect him to say that.

It will be interesting these next few years to say the least.

Flying, Mr.Bernanke was under oath before Congress yesterday, are you intimating that he did not tell Mr. Paul the truth about the other central bankers selling or talking about selling gold? Do you realize the seiousness of what a charge of lying to Congress under oath would do to this man, his career and potentially his freedom? You are sounding more like the typical gold bugs that think there is a international conspiracy to supress the price of gold, trust me when I tell you this, with all the kaos and havoc in the world financial markets most of these central bankers could care less about where gold closed at today or tomorrow or next week. You do realize that the only reason that gold got up to over $1000/ounce in the first place was because of the hedge funds manipulating the price upwards, just like they did in the oil markets? It is really quite amazing that gold has kept its head above $700/ounce , I guess you can thank Saudi Arabia, Iran and China for that

No I did not mean that he was lying.

I meant in the context you mentioned.....

asked Mr. Bernanke if there had been any talk with other central bankers in Europe and elsewhere if they are considering tying gold to a basket of currencies, Mr. Bernanke answered emphatically NO!

I am no conspiracy nut when it comes to gold.

But.... I do wonder if there were any talks like you mention do you think He would even be invited? I dont...My reason is this.....

What if the rest of the world has just lost a bit of faith in everything being pegged to the USD? Is it possible they may speak among themselves as to possible alternatives? I am not saying that it need be gold either.

[VegasVic]

Flying, The U.S. trade deficit has been shrinking as Lanna pointed out, but there wouldn't have been any devaluation of the Dollar in any event! I also noticed the Chinese announcement which spiked gold to over $760/ounce in Asian and European trading yesterday, but in todays U.S. trading gold went back to the mid $730's (still holding up better than I thought it would)! Iran and Saudi Arabia have also been buying gold as of late, and yet the price hasn't gone anywhere. The answer may lie in the questioning of Ben Bernanke by Congress the other day, when Ron Paul asked Mr. Bernanke if there had been any talk with other central bankers in Europe and elsewhere if they are considering tying gold to a basket of currencies, Mr. Bernanke answered emphatically NO! Then Rep. Paul asked Mr. Bernanke if the subject of gold ever comes up when he talks with the other central bankers around the globe and Bernanke answered that the only time it has come up was in reference to central banks selling gold. It could very well be that their are enough central banks selling gold so that Saudi, Iran and china can buy what they want without having any wild swings in the worldwide gold market.

Yes I have notice that gold is range bound now between 720-760

Also I notice the asian markets as you mentioned.

The conspiricy folks of course say the US is squashing the price on purpose

No I do not believe that but I am sure market manipulation is available in any sector.

As for what Bernanke said I fully would expect him to say that.

It will be interesting these next few years to say the least.

Flying, Mr.Bernanke was under oath before Congress yesterday, are you intimating that he did not tell Mr. Paul the truth about the other central bankers selling or talking about selling gold? Do you realize the seiousness of what a charge of lying to Congress under oath would do to this man, his career and potentially his freedom? You are sounding more like the typical gold bugs that think there is a international conspiracy to supress the price of gold, trust me when I tell you this, with all the kaos and havoc in the world financial markets most of these central bankers could care less about where gold closed at today or tomorrow or next week. You do realize that the only reason that gold got up to over $1000/ounce in the first place was because of the hedge funds manipulating the price upwards, just like they did in the oil markets? It is really quite amazing that gold has kept its head above $700/ounce , I guess you can thank Saudi Arabia, Iran and China for that

No I did not mean that he was lying.

I meant in the context you mentioned.....

asked Mr. Bernanke if there had been any talk with other central bankers in Europe and elsewhere if they are considering tying gold to a basket of currencies, Mr. Bernanke answered emphatically NO!

I am no conspiracy nut when it comes to gold.

But.... I do wonder if there were any talks like you mention do you think He would even be invited? I dont...My reason is this.....

What if the rest of the world has just lost a bit of faith in everything being pegged to the USD? Is it possible they may speak among themselves as to possible alternatives? I am not saying that it need be gold either.

Fair enough!

[Naam]

CHINA PLANS TO BUY 4000 tonnes of gold

BEIJING (Dow Jones)--China's central bank is considering raising its gold reserve by 4,000 metric tons from 600 tons to diversify risks brought by the country's huge foreign exchange reserves, the Guangzhou Daily reported, citing unnamed industry people in Hong Kong.

the intention of China to increase her gold reserves is a done deal. yesterday my wife phoned our housemaid who's aunt has a distant cousin working as a cook for an unnamed chinese family in Hong Kong. a couple of unnamed members of said unnamed family confirmed the news

[Lost in LOS]

CHINA PLANS TO BUY 4000 tonnes of gold

BEIJING (Dow Jones)--China's central bank is considering raising its gold reserve by 4,000 metric tons from 600 tons to diversify risks brought by the country's huge foreign exchange reserves, the Guangzhou Daily reported, citing unnamed industry people in Hong Kong.

the intention of China to increase her gold reserves is a done deal. yesterday my wife phoned our housemaid who's aunt has a distant cousin working as a cook for an unnamed chinese family in Hong Kong. a couple of unnamed members of said unnamed family confirmed the news

i used to date one of those family members so i can confirm

[Naam]

CHINA PLANS TO BUY 4000 tonnes of gold

BEIJING (Dow Jones)--China's central bank is considering raising its gold reserve by 4,000 metric tons from 600 tons to diversify risks brought by the country's huge foreign exchange reserves, the Guangzhou Daily reported, citing unnamed industry people in Hong Kong.

the intention of China to increase her gold reserves is a done deal. yesterday my wife phoned our housemaid who's aunt has a distant cousin working as a cook for an unnamed chinese family in Hong Kong. a couple of unnamed members of said unnamed family confirmed the news

i used to date one of those family members so i can confirm

the one with the big knockers Jimmy?

[churchill]

Australian mint suspends orders until January - unable to meet demand

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/busin...337-643,00.html

[flying]

Australian mint suspends orders until January - unable to meet demand

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/busin...337-643,00.html

The US Mint is also discontinuing quite a few coins next year...

[flying]

Gold broke 780 today

Edited November 21, 2008 by flying

[flying]

Gold broke 780 today

You can't fool all the people all the time....but you can fool enough of them to make yourself rich on their stupidity. (P. T. Barnum....as illustrated by George Bush)

If you have 1000 ounces of Gold, and nobody wants to buy, how much is it your Gold worth?

If you're hungery, how many calories do you get for each ounce of the Gold you eat?

Ok all I meant was technically that was a problem 780..... now its not

But as to your question if Im hungry I bet gold can buy food in more places than not. Then again I have a killer garden & will never be hungry

As for having a 1000 ounces & none want to buy?? Who said anything about selling. Trade money for currency? I guess if you want to you can & who knows someday perhaps my kids will do just that...Their perogative

I am curious though as to why you would ask that question?

The actual reality of it is this.......

If you did have 1000 oz of gold that you had for at least say 2 days or so & you sold it today I guess you would make about $53,000 - $60,000as I write this.

Of course today is a good day but

Edited November 21, 2008 by flying

[VegasVic]

Gold broke 780 today

You can't fool all the people all the time....but you can fool enough of them to make yourself rich on their stupidity. (P. T. Barnum....as illustrated by George Bush)

If you have 1000 ounces of Gold, and nobody wants to buy, how much is it your Gold worth?

If you're hungery, how many calories do you get for each ounce of the Gold you eat?

Ok all I meant was technically that was a problem 780..... now its not

But as to your question if Im hungry I bet gold can buy food in more places than not. Then again I have a killer garden & will never be hungry

As for having a 1000 ounces & none want to buy?? Who said anything about selling. Trade money for currency? I guess if you want to you can & who knows someday perhaps my kids will do just that...Their perogative

I am curious though as to why you would ask that question?

The actual reality of it is this.......

If you did have 1000 oz of gold that you had for at least say 2 days or so & you sold it today I guess you would make about $53,000 - $60,000as I write this.

Of course today is a good day but

Gold closed over $800/ounce here in the states today I don't know if this is the begining of a meaningful run or just a head fake, I guess we will find out on Monday!

[flying]

Gold closed over $800/ounce here in the states today I don't know if this is the begining of a meaningful run or just a head fake, I guess we will find out on Monday!

I am guessing there will be some profit taking monday for sure. Especially being a short week with Thanksgiving & all.

Either way I dont have tons & will just hold.

Silver I am wondering now if the slowdown next year will mean less industrial usage also? In any case I was glad to see it get up a bit.

[VegasVic]

Gold closed over $800/ounce here in the states today I don't know if this is the begining of a meaningful run or just a head fake, I guess we will find out on Monday!

I am guessing there will be some profit taking monday for sure. Especially being a short week with Thanksgiving & all.

Either way I dont have tons & will just hold.

Silver I am wondering now if the slowdown next year will mean less industrial usage also? In any case I was glad to see it get up a bit.

I hate to admit this after being such a anti goldbug on this forum, but I covered the remaider of my oil short position yesterday and bought in a sizeable position in AUY at $3.52! I am not hedged in AUY currently but may buy puts on Monday AM. I don't think that Peter Schiffs $2000 gold prediction for 2009 will come true, however given peoples lack of confidence in the financial system and dismal returns in government bonds, I think that there will be a certain % of people that will move to gold in order to preserve capital. I want to make it clear that I do not want any invitatins to any goldbug gatherings Have a good Thanksgiving fly!

[flying]

I hate to admit this after being such a anti goldbug on this forum, but I covered the remaider of my oil short position yesterday and bought in a sizeable position in AUY at $3.52! I am not hedged in AUY currently but may buy puts on Monday AM. I don't think that Peter Schiffs $2000 gold prediction for 2009 will come true, however given peoples lack of confidence in the financial system and dismal returns in government bonds, I think that there will be a certain % of people that will move to gold in order to preserve capital. I want to make it clear that I do not want any invitatins to any goldbug gatherings Have a good Thanksgiving fly!

Hello my name is Vic & I am a goldbug

Just kidding your no more a bug than I

You basically stated my case.

Good gooble to you too Vic !

[AlexLah]

What if the following will happen sometime in 2009 or a bit later.

Us devalues the Dollar by 50%, then a goldprice of 2000 would be possible right?

US then sells part of their 8000 Tons of Gold to cover part of the debt obligations they have.

Thinking of the 8-10 Trillion Dollar that has been pumped in the system (on paper) worldwide, something has to give.

Exchange rate: 1 USD to 20 THB?

And don't say this would never happen as we have seen more crazy things this year, like oil going from a 140 to 48 in just a few months.

This was even announced by some CEO on Reuters, it was somewhere in June this year if my memory is still OK.

And do not forget this supposed global financial meltdown that we were warned about by some, they were ridiculed at that time.

Something to watch if you wanna know a bit more background on the recent bank takeovers.

http://revelationsmedia.com/wamu-truth-jp-...d-wamu-seizure/

[flying]

And do not forget this supposed global financial meltdown that we were warned about by some, they were ridiculed at that time.

You know this Jim Sinclair? I do not but I must say his writing is pretty dang scary isn't it? I was reading anothe rforum & saw a link to this.

I have heard his name before I guess he would be called a gold bug. But whether he is right or not is irrelevant .....What worries me is if more & more say things like this there will in fact be runs on banks. None with half a brain believe the FDIC raised the insurance limit to 250k each or more if married because they have the $$$ to back it. More likely because they dont have the money to back even the 100K limit of old if there is a run on the banks or for long if banks started throwing in the towels.

What MUST Be Done To Avoid Financial Destruction Posted: Nov 22 2008 By: Jim Sinclair Post Edited: November 22, 2008 at 10:48 pm

My Dear Extended Family,

Things are now "Out of Control."

This international financial crisis is now out of control as the world asks if the USA has two presidents, one president or no president at all.

It would appear that Paulson is in financial control with Bernanke as his second.

I warned you by personal email long before the statement was proven totally correct that “This is it.” That was followed by “This is it, and it is now.” Many people laughed it off.

This is it, and it is now.

Now it is out of control.

Now we enter the Collapse of Confidence period.

Then we begin the Weimar Experience.

It has all hit the fan, and still the absolute majority have no clue. The OTC derivative dealers broke the system into millions of pieces of glass. This broken glass cannot be put back together.

It is heart rending to see a picture of GM autoworkers holding a prayer meeting for their retirement funds. The retirement money was never funded. It is a lost hope. This is another responsibility the government has undertaken that is going to go wild.

Those of you still in freeze frame are headed for lines around your bank. Your bank will likely be acquired by another bank that also is in deep trouble.

The US dollar, like a leaderless company, will lose its respect and therefore value.

In order of importance the following MUST be done unless you want to be one of the suffering masses that will be all too visible this winter:

1. You must have your assets held anywhere they are in true custodial-ship accounts. That type of account at a bank or broker states clearly that the assets held there are not on the balance sheet of the host financial entity. Those assets are clearly segregated in your name. This must be reviewed by counsel to be sure you have what you think you have. Don’t cheap out. All you have is depending on the validity of true custodial-ship accounts.

You cannot know all the banks are broke, however I feel ALL banks are broke because finance is an intertwined system that if visible would look like a spider’s web. Problems on the top will materialize all along the web. Therefore the singular most important step you must take is the establishment of a true custodial-ship account.

Do not assume you have this type of account unless a competent attorney reviews the account papers.

2. I am extremely concerned about those of you who persist in holding certificates for gold rather than holding the actual metal either delivered to you or held for you in a true custodial-ship type account. The scams out there in gold are plentiful. The only way to avoid these scams absolutely is to have your gold in your own possession.

Every other means of holding gold is steps away from perfection. Some will be ok, but many will not.

3. Why would anyone fail to either take paper certificates or order their financial agent to make direct registration book entry at the transfer agent? In most cases you only have until year-end to accomplish this strategy.

4. Withdraw from ETFs.

5. If you carelessly keep large assets with your broker you are as mad as a hatter. The FDIC DOES NOT have the money to guarantee all they are undertaking. Withdraw excess money constantly from any net broker. If you are so stubborn that you think you can trade to insure yourself when your funds are not making money while still getting your money that counts you are nuts. Admit to yourself you are nothing more than a gambling addict in a downward spiral.

6. Leave no gold or coins with any coin dealer.

7. If you can withdraw from your corporate retirement plan do it.

8. Withdraw from credit unions.

9. Withdraw from all money market instruments.

10. This is it.

11. It is now.

12. It is out of control NOW.

The next two months are going to be shocking, but nothing compared to what you will have to experience in 2009.

Respectfully yours,

Jim

http://jsmineset.com/index.php/2008/11/22/...al-destruction/http://jsmineset.com/index.php/2008/11/22/...l-destruction/#

[Hairy]

If things get as bad as Sinclair keeps ranting, having gold in physical form in your possession is just going to get you killed by the rampaging home-invasion mobs that will be looting and burning every house in sight.

[churchill]

US asks Gulf states for $300 BILLION . What signal does that send ??

http://www.cnbc.com/id/27885566

[churchill]

gold miners still very undervalued even after 20-30% gains on Friday

http://www.mineweb.co.za/mineweb/view/mine...6&sn=Detail