Home Grown Debts

[GuestHouse]

Then perhaps we must agree to disagree

[RDN]

..... Is 'Money Lending' moral to you? Or is that a 'vice' cloaked in respectability?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

"Yes" or "No" please, Ravisher: Does your casino allow card-counters to play 'blackjack'?

[RDN]

Yes. We have to. This is Greece, as they say,  and under Greek Law we cannot bar, or stop card counters from entering the casino and playing Blackjack. So, what did we do? We put in automatic card shuffling machines, rendering card counting useless.

I see you setting me up for something there RDN. What was it? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nothing - yet

I thought you had to put 2 shuffled packs into the shoe each time you wanted to fill it? I'm obviously not too clear on the rules. So how does an automatic shuffling machine work - how many packs get shuffled at a time? Just curious

[The Gentleman Scamp]

Blimey, what have I started here.

Can't read or comment on the latest, the funfair bekons... Will return.

[mowlem]

Scamp, there is a difference between them writing off your debt, and them getting a CCJ (taking you to court for default). If they have done a CCJ, a county court judgement, it makes things a LOT harder if you go back.

[billd766]

Blimey, what have I started here.

Can't read or comment on the latest, the funfair bekons...  Will return.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry Scamp... somebody lured me away from the thread.

I still say, offer to pay them one pound a month until you get yourself straight. That way you can ease your conscience and keep your dignity, and satisfy me and these puritanical pricks all at the same time.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Scamp, if you offer to pay a fiver a month they would probably accept (they did for me and for quite a long time as well) but a quid a month is not really enough now. Eventually they will come back and ask for more and if you can double it that would probably be acceptable as you are showing that you are willing to pay but have only limited means.

Alternatively after about 6 years it will have vanished from the records and you should be able to obtain credit again in your country of origin.

It all depends on whether you intend to go back there at some time and require anothre credit agreement.

[mowlem]

Whilst it is true that adverse history is cleared off the public record after 6 years, this would not stop a creditor who has obtained a Judgment against you. The creditor would simply have to ask for the leave of the court to pursue the Judgment out of time on the grounds that you had been avoiding enforcement.

Also, the fact that you went on a grand tour of SE Asia (not cheap) before you cleared your debts, spending loads in the process, means most lenders would be "unsympathetic" to your case. Some could call it fraud, as it looks like you never intended to pay it back. (I am NOT saying this was the case, just that it looks like it to them)

[The Gentleman Scamp]

I would have to have a very good reason indeed for ever wanting to get a credit card again.

[The Gentleman Scamp]

Ravisher,

Come from modest beginnings. Had several down times in my life as well. Life for me was anything but easy.

Personally think that it is these times,  and how you handle them, that make you stronger and a better man. 

That's okay Ravisher. You view yourself as an animal, and I as something more. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry but Ravisher is correct - we are all animals.

Anyone who considers themself more is a little above their station, and it's that sort of arrogance that has made us the worst animal of all.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I would have to have a very good reason indeed for ever wanting to get a credit card again.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Like last time.

[SoCal]

Ravisher,

Come from modest beginnings. Had several down times in my life as well. Life for me was anything but easy.

Personally think that it is these times,  and how you handle them, that make you stronger and a better man. 

That's okay Ravisher. You view yourself as an animal, and I as something more. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry but Ravisher is correct - we are all animals.

Anyone who considers themself more is a little above their station, and it's that sort of arrogance that has made us the worst animal of all.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So I am arrogant? Well, at least I am not a thief.

[SoCal]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I really do try to be a straight and honest guy, and would never welch on a loan from a friend for example.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, right.

You are an animal. Animals do not have principles.

Further, have never known a thief to discriminate.

Why try to look like a decent person now? You're on a roll.

Would be nice if you had a conscience, but that is not an animal trait.

Maybe you should go F a stuffed animal. Makes my dog feel better.

[GuestHouse]

I think personal abuse is unnecessary and does nothing but ditract from what is a very interesting thread.

I'd like to hear more about how

Thieves will often descriminate between what is 'fair game' and what is not.

The reason is, just as some here might say I don't know what "broke" means if I had something to sell. Other's might say you are never really down unless you have no choice but to thieve where you can.

It's sort of a measure of degrees.

If you accept that you will make a choice, then you accept that you some degree of free will.

And since someone bought the animal/human argument into the conversation - Concious choice is exactly what makes us different from animals who act entirely on instinct.

What is particularly interesting is the self excusing of wrong actions. Especially since we have now established there was a degree of free will. And that by self confesion the same choices would be made again.

[DavidUK21]

The OP borrowed the money and should pay it back, like he agreed to do when he borrowed it.

He's not down and out and could pay some of it back. He just wants to keep all the money he's earning to himself.

If he doesnt pay it back, other people will have to, including me. So some of the money I earn at work next week will go towards paying the debt back for him.

Thanks a lot for that mate, thanks a lot.

[DavidUK21]

Well his 'time and cirumstances' say to me that he has spare money and he should use that to pay the debt back. If he was penniless I would agree with you.

Why should I go out to work to pay it back for him?

[The Gentleman Scamp]

The OP borrowed the money and should pay it back, like he agreed to do when he borrowed it.

He's not down and out and could pay some of it back.  He just wants to keep all the money he's earning to himself.

If he doesnt pay it back, other people will have to, including me.  So some of the money I earn at work next week will go towards paying the debt back for him. 

Thanks a lot for that mate, thanks a lot.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I do feel quite bad over that, Dave gets paid on Friday and a percentage of his monthly wage will go solely towards paying off my debt.

If I paid this off then Dave would have more money and could push the boat out once in a while and log on here in a better and more realistic mood.

Okay, daftness aside, because that is what it is, daft, to think that a cxomplete strangers 1,600 pound debt could affect your earnings, putting me in the same boat as people who owe hundreds of thousands and jumping to the assumption that I'm a nasty, dishonest piece of work.

Have I at any point said that I am NOT going to pay it off?

I've already said, and now I have to say it again so I'll invoice you for the typing time shall I ...that I was 50/50 on what to do here which is why I started the post in the first place.

I had already decided by page four that I would pay it back but starting next year when I go back to England.

I would be more inclined to pay it if the debt went back from the collection agency to the bank - as somebody posted earlier, the debt collection agencies are nasty.

Maybe I will say to them, look, I'll pay it back but not to you c**ts, give the debt back to the bank and you have a deal.

Incedentally, let's not forget here that I was all paid up until september, that's right, s e p t e m b e r.

...So all you Dave's out there who want to use me to unload their anger to all those real theives with real debts of significant amounts and time in arrears can calm down and get off site if they can't see this for the simple enquiry it is.

With respect,

TGS.

[paully]

Whilst it is true that adverse history is cleared off the public record after 6 years, this would not stop a creditor who has obtained a Judgment against you. The creditor would simply have to ask for the leave of the court to pursue the Judgment out of time on the grounds that you had been avoiding enforcement.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

True, but the creditor has to start a claim in court against you and obtain judgment first before the six years are up. In many cases, they won't start a claim because it would be to throw good money after bad (the court issue fee has to be paid on issue) and they may be unsure of your address: to obtain judgment the claimant has to show that you have received service of the claim and not replied or admitted that you owe the money.

[DavidUK21]

Thank you for that patronizing and venomous rant.

Debts not paid by you will be paid by others who owe money to the bank.

I've always paid my debts, so bad debtors do have an effect on my earnings.

It doesn't make me angry but does p*ss me off a little.

[The Gentleman Scamp]

Thank you for that patronizing and venomous rant.

Debts not paid by you will be paid by others who owe money to the bank.

I've always paid my debts, so bad debtors do have an effect on my earnings.

It doesn't make me angry but does p*ss me off a little.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Granted, I didn't mean to be patronizing but I was perhaps being a little over defensive and tetchy, my point was that I am not a 'serial' bad debtor and that I have not yet made a decision.

I am willing to pay off what I owe but I resent paying the massive amounts of interest that the vultures, as Rav puts it, will inevitably profit from.

Other than that I could pay fifty pounds a month starting next year.

I still don't know if this could affect any future inheritance or not...

Could the vultures really be a threat to that?

[dutch]

You talk a circle even into a straight line.

If you steal, you steal POINT

[DavidUK21]

Thank you for that patronizing and venomous rant.

Debts not paid by you will be paid by others who owe money to the bank.

I've always paid my debts, so bad debtors do have an effect on my earnings.

It doesn't make me angry but does p*ss me off a little.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

David, look at it like a charity. You never know in life what can happen to you... Iv'e seen millionaires go broke... plenty of them. So I guess smart assed moralists can also go broke. Iv'e been there, I know what it is like... and the hungrier you get the lower your integrity goes... along with your self-esteem and your self-respect. When you have been there a few times like I have and maybe Scampy has too, you LEARN.

As you are now, so am I, I don't have to struggle anymore or try to fight my way through life, of feel the pangs of hunger anymore... It is all very well to moralise while we are on top and in control of our lives... But try life at the very bottom, I mean out of work, not a dime in the bank, no posessions to sell for food, I mean NOTHING! When you have been there, then you can moralise all you like. Until then, like I said, think of it as 'charity' then maybe you won't get so p*ssed off.

Unless of course you think that charity is only for low-life scum.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Look, I'm broke mate. I've just spent 3 months in the UK working a crappy job. Silly Me. I should have just spent some money on a credit card and been another victim.

[DavidUK21]

Thank you for that patronizing and venomous rant.

Debts not paid by you will be paid by others who owe money to the bank.

I've always paid my debts, so bad debtors do have an effect on my earnings.

It doesn't make me angry but does p*ss me off a little.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

David, look at it like a charity. You never know in life what can happen to you... Iv'e seen millionaires go broke... plenty of them. So I guess smart assed moralists can also go broke. Iv'e been there, I know what it is like... and the hungrier you get the lower your integrity goes... along with your self-esteem and your self-respect. When you have been there a few times like I have and maybe Scampy has too, you LEARN.

As you are now, so am I, I don't have to struggle anymore or try to fight my way through life, of feel the pangs of hunger anymore... It is all very well to moralise while we are on top and in control of our lives... But try life at the very bottom, I mean out of work, not a dime in the bank, no posessions to sell for food, I mean NOTHING! When you have been there, then you can moralise all you like. Until then, like I said, think of it as 'charity' then maybe you won't get so p*ssed off.

Unless of course you think that charity is only for low-life scum.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Look, I'm broke mate. I've just spent 3 months in the UK working a crappy job. Silly Me. I should have just spent some money on a credit card and been another victim.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just wondering here... when you were broke and I mean 'broke' and before you got this job, how did you pay the rent and how did you pay for food? And if it was on credit, what would have happened if you had not landed the job?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My point is he has a job and money with which to pay the debt back.

He is not down and out and penniless as you keep trying to suggest.

If he was I'd be only too happy to help.

[Dickie]

If you're never going back to sunny England then stuff the debt, it's only to a corporate shark. If you think you will return then pay it back.

[DavidUK21]

My point is he has a job and money with which to pay the debt back.

He is not down and out and penniless as you keep trying to suggest.

If he was I'd be only too happy to help.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry, your point was not clear. It is simple. If I were in Scamps position I would not pay the 'Colletion Agency' money that I owed a bank, for reasons I have stated. If you were in Scamps position you would pay the CA.

You can call me a thief.

I can call you a fool.

Enuff said.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You cant call me a fool. Not without me calling you a ###### that is.

[GuestHouse]

Self justification for breaking laws, promises or contracts is not justification.

If that is too difficult to swallow, what about the case where failure to pay or (if you prefare) acting on your animal guiles, places someone else in the psotion where they have no money to buy food, housing etc?

The point is there is no difference between the two acts, robbing from a CC Company or robbing from an idividual - other than the subsequant consequences on the victim.

I might have more respect for your position of you simply said - OK I am amoral and I don't care who I rob from so long as I'm OK Jack.

But to cloak your acts in some tale of destitution (Sorry M'lud I was destitute) is simply to make excuses.

Just as you have wished destitution on me, so I can taste the bitter pill, might I wish that someone down the line robs you blind too.

The boot, which ever boot, is always best on the other foot.

[SoCal]

[SoCal]

Ravisher,

There is a difference between being cavalier, and showing remorse for what one has done in the past.

People make mistakes in life, and without a doubt in their youth. Most however do not wear their mistakes as a badge of courage, and encourage others to do likewise, especially when they should be mature enough to understand the difference.

Does that not make any sense to you?

[SoCal]

Ravisher,

Would I pay the collection agency?

Certainly.

A debt made is a debt paid.

What if I didn't have the money?

Then I would make every attempt to settle my debt with my debtors. Most creditors will work with debtors as I said earlier.

What if I absolutely had no hope of resolving my debt?

Then suppose I would try to legaly satisfice the situation (bankruptcy.)

Personaly, have never not repaid a debt. I believe a lot in the old axioms of honor, respect, responsibility, trust, etc.

Maybe that seems funny or simplistic to you, but it is who I am, and I like who I am.

[SoCal]

You're beginning to wear on me as well.

PS- "My Friend" is sad, and rather bleak. I'm not speaking to it's truthfulness, but you and I definitely share different paradigms. Sorry that you feel that way, and respect your views none the less.

[SoCal]

I guess you write something, then forget it, at your age.

yada yada yada

The Truth My friend... is better not to know...

Sound familiar?