Thaksin Begs For "Royal Kindness"

[Plus]

Bangkok Post comments were ridiculous.

And they point to the same thing - it's not ideology, it's Thaksin all the way.

There's also an interesting cross country Abac poll reported in the Nation today - it shows that they country is VERY united on certain issues, like rescpect for judiciary and desire for reconciliation.

Someone should study these issues in depth, my guess is - remove Thaksin from the picture and there will nothing to argue about - everyone wants democracy, rule of law, and more voice in governing the country, and no one wants military government.

[animatic]

I'm so happy seeing I'm not the only one who loves Khun Thaksin and Thai Rak Thai / PPP.

90,000 people is not minority.

It's nice to be happy, but 90,000 people is neither a minority or a majority. It's simply the number of people who were bussed into the stadium through whatever incentives and strategies were required for that purpose.

The 90,000 might represent the voice of the poor farmers, or perhaps just their local grandees - those who wield the power and have the real voice in the countryside. It would appear from the Bangkok gubernatorial elections, however, that the 90,000 represent only about 25% of the Bangkok electorate. Do the 90,000 represent a majority of Thai citizens with a secondary or higher education? Does this number represent a majority of Thais who are no longer tolerant of flagrant and gross levels of corruption? Perhaps the 90,000, who presumably believe criminality is an acceptable aspect of populism, reflect those who say they don't care.

We are starting to hear the language of moral equivalence, as we did during the Cold War, when Soviet dictatorship was seen to be morally equivalent to US imperialism. Now we are presented with the UDD as the legitimate equivalent of PAD, but the PAD leaders have not been charged or convicted on any grounds of corruption or theft. The middle-aged and elderly people, women and families that comprise the bulk of daily PAD attendances (from my observation) have not been bussed in in large numbers for a one-off Nuremberg-style rally such as we've seen tonight. The PAD have been invariably right in their analysis, though most agree their "New Politics" needs more discussion. The UDD and their PPP backers seem to have only one agendum, to overturn the law and the constitution in favour of their Leader, a man whose criminality has been established, but whose resources can buy him loyalty in a patronal society.

Well-resourced political leaders throughout the world have always been able to mobilize the numbers. It tells us nothing about minorities or majorities.

The place only holds 70,000 and was reported not full.

90,000 is <deleted>. Best inflated estimate 50k

Maybe next time you can use a counter to get a exact number for your arguements. It doesnt matter if it was 70,000 or 90,000 or over 100,000. The fact is that a lot of people will spend their Saturdays showing their support for true democracy in Thailand and not a backward Elite appointed government proposed by PAD. It must be hard to see so many Thais not agreeing with your ideas for the PAD utopia all of a sudden. Dont worry Im sure Sondhi and his mob crew are planning away and they are sure to have some events to stir the pot.

0.14 percent of the populace. A HUGE number for ONE EVENING.

Bird Mackintire draws that for one gig, Acadamy Fantasia the same.

And whore house running thug too.

Got cash and a bus will travel. Especially when you get a free day to shop in Bkk

or just to visit the children in the big city.

Edited November 2, 2008 by animatic

[animatic]

The place only holds 70,000 and was reported not full.

90,000 is <deleted>. Best inflated estimate 50k

What do you care if there were....50, 60, 70 or 90,000 ? The total would be probably more than all people on Samui this moment

Claiming "<deleted>" if you haven't been there or based upon the photos/images in the papers/tv is a risky thing to say; the same for "Best inflated estimate..". You're just wildly guessing.

"They occupied most of 70,000 seats in the stadium and packed the field"

From The Nation:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Police-Fire-...75#entry2307175

But, again, what do you care ?

LaoPo

There are more migrant construction and support workers on Samui that the whole rally.

Not including the actual registered residents 50k and tourist transients.

[animatic]

Just more ongoing manipulation of his Cult Of Personality

with some sinister undertones of rebelion and and insurrection.

[grandpops]

Yes well the farang pro-PAD right-wingers on this forum can keep dreaming up excuses and trot out the tired old suggestion that the pro-Thaksin-pro-democracy supporters were paid to attend, blah, blah..

But just have a look at all the responses in the Forum section of the new Bangkok Post on Sunday (I'm regaining some faith in the Post) from what appears to be Thais and NOT farangs (I'm assuming Thais from their writing styles). They want democracy - they want Thaksin - they will NOT accept an elite appointed government or another right-wing coup.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/topstories/tops...s.php?id=131755 (the comments are below the sidebar story at the top)

Have some sympathy for the Peoples Alliance for Dictatorship supporting farangs on here.

If they don't get their dream of a dictatorship here, they are going to have to re-locate to Burma or some such place to live in their kind of country. Thats Burma, where you do your visa runs from Phuket and Samui. Any takers?

Media and people have no problem switching sides back to Thaksin if it looks like he is making a comeback.

Edited November 2, 2008 by grandpops

[sriracha john]

It's not impossible to remove Thaksin from Thailand...

PAD success as temple statue is changed following protest at Banglamung Temple

Yesterday we reported on a PAD demonstration at the Banglamung Temple over a new Buddhist statue base which featured a sculpture of the former Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra. The base was intended to celebrate the role of influential government figures and the PAD demonstrators were angry that the former Prime Minister, who is now in exile in UK, was featured.

They demanded that he be removed from the base within 7 days or further action would be taken. We can now report that on Thursday morning he was removed from the base to the delight of the local PAD supporters who thanked the temple and architect for their prompt action.

- Pattaya One News / 2008-10-30

[yumidesign]

I'm so happy seeing I'm not the only one who loves Khun Thaksin and Thai Rak Thai / PPP.

90,000 people is not minority.

i assume that your post is a send up

[grandpops]

It's not impossible to remove Thaksin from Thailand...

PAD success as temple statue is changed following protest at Banglamung Temple

Yesterday we reported on a PAD demonstration at the Banglamung Temple over a new Buddhist statue base which featured a sculpture of the former Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra. The base was intended to celebrate the role of influential government figures and the PAD demonstrators were angry that the former Prime Minister, who is now in exile in UK, was featured.

They demanded that he be removed from the base within 7 days or further action would be taken. We can now report that on Thursday morning he was removed from the base to the delight of the local PAD supporters who thanked the temple and architect for their prompt action.

- Pattaya One News / 2008-10-30

Can soon be put back up to curry favour with him should he return.

Maybe they can force PAD members or supporters to re-instate and bless it!

[Pierrot]

I'm so happy seeing I'm not the only one who loves Khun Thaksin and Thai Rak Thai / PPP.

90,000 people is not minority.

It's nice to be happy, but 90,000 people is neither a minority or a majority. It's simply the number of people who were bussed into the stadium through whatever incentives and strategies were required for that purpose.

The 90,000 might represent the voice of the poor farmers, or perhaps just their local grandees - those who wield the power and have the real voice in the countryside. It would appear from the Bangkok gubernatorial elections, however, that the 90,000 represent only about 25% of the Bangkok electorate. Do the 90,000 represent a majority of Thai citizens with a secondary or higher education? Does this number represent a majority of Thais who are no longer tolerant of flagrant and gross levels of corruption? Perhaps the 90,000, who presumably believe criminality is an acceptable aspect of populism, reflect those who say they don't care.

We are starting to hear the language of moral equivalence, as we did during the Cold War, when Soviet dictatorship was seen to be morally equivalent to US imperialism. Now we are presented with the UDD as the legitimate equivalent of PAD, but the PAD leaders have not been charged or convicted on any grounds of corruption or theft. The middle-aged and elderly people, women and families that comprise the bulk of daily PAD attendances (from my observation) have not been bussed in in large numbers for a one-off Nuremberg-style rally such as we've seen tonight. The PAD have been invariably right in their analysis, though most agree their "New Politics" needs more discussion. The UDD and their PPP backers seem to have only one agendum, to overturn the law and the constitution in favour of their Leader, a man whose criminality has been established, but whose resources can buy him loyalty in a patronal society.

Well-resourced political leaders throughout the world have always been able to mobilize the numbers. It tells us nothing about minorities or majorities.

The place only holds 70,000 and was reported not full.

90,000 is <deleted>. Best inflated estimate 50k

Maybe next time you can use a counter to get a exact number for your arguements. It doesnt matter if it was 70,000 or 90,000 or over 100,000. The fact is that a lot of people will spend their Saturdays showing their support for true democracy in Thailand and not a backward Elite appointed government proposed by PAD. It must be hard to see so many Thais not agreeing with your ideas for the PAD utopia all of a sudden. Dont worry Im sure Sondhi and his mob crew are planning away and they are sure to have some events to stir the pot.

0.14 percent of the populace. A HUGE number for ONE EVENING.

Bird Mackintire draws that for one gig, Acadamy Fantasia the same.

And whore house running thug too.

Got cash and a bus will travel. Especially when you get a free day to shop in Bkk

or just to visit the children in the big city.

Your meaning is that PAD leaders that can't attract a crowd anywhere near this size are underachievers and that their popularity is closer to a second rate countryside entertainer ? I think everybody agree with that.

And again I agree with you regarding the supporters : The middle-aged and elderly people, women and families, basically the bored and the unemployed attend PAD meetings (support would be a too strong word). On the other hand you will notice that Thaksin organizes a meeting on Saturday night, a time when regularly employed people can attend. It's true that when you have to earn your leaving, your priorities and choices are different compare to people who just collect attendance fees ….

[grandpops]

I'm so happy seeing I'm not the only one who loves Khun Thaksin and Thai Rak Thai / PPP.

90,000 people is not minority.

i assume that your post is a send up

I agree.

If you want a real demonstration of the word minority try;

"The PAD are a minority. A non elected one at that"

One way or another this country needs reconcilliation, forgiveness and to move on. The PAD and another coup are not going to achieve this.

[OlRedEyes]

The issue of redshirts being paid to be bussed in may be partly true, as is the issue of yellowshirts being paid to attend daily rallies. However, these allegations have gotten terribly tired, and ignores the very obvious fact that there is widespread real support for both camps.

If everybody keeps, stupidly and dogmatically, taking the confrontational stance currently in vogue, this country is heading for civil war.

Most TV posters like to pride themselves on their perceived superior maturity compared to the general Thai population. It surely doesn't show in any of these many threads.

Most of you speak like childish idiots at a soccer (or football - take your bloody pick) game, I am sad to say.

So many of you say you love Thailand..... You get all uppity if someone says something bad about it or the Thai people, or if international media reports cast it in a bad light. Grow up, realize what civil war means, and try to help bring about reconciliation rather than stoking hatred.

[khaowong1]

The current PM Somchai earlier flew up to Chiang Mai, while Thaksin is in Hong Kong saying... "people's power can bring him back to Thailiand"?

Does anyone happen to know if there are direct flights from Hong Kong to Chiang Mai? The conspiracy theories that one could read into things...

wouldn't that be funny.

[animatic]

I'm so happy seeing I'm not the only one who loves Khun Thaksin and Thai Rak Thai / PPP.

90,000 people is not minority.

It's nice to be happy, but 90,000 people is neither a minority or a majority. It's simply the number of people who were bussed into the stadium through whatever incentives and strategies were required for that purpose.

The 90,000 might represent the voice of the poor farmers, or perhaps just their local grandees - those who wield the power and have the real voice in the countryside. It would appear from the Bangkok gubernatorial elections, however, that the 90,000 represent only about 25% of the Bangkok electorate. Do the 90,000 represent a majority of Thai citizens with a secondary or higher education? Does this number represent a majority of Thais who are no longer tolerant of flagrant and gross levels of corruption? Perhaps the 90,000, who presumably believe criminality is an acceptable aspect of populism, reflect those who say they don't care.

We are starting to hear the language of moral equivalence, as we did during the Cold War, when Soviet dictatorship was seen to be morally equivalent to US imperialism. Now we are presented with the UDD as the legitimate equivalent of PAD, but the PAD leaders have not been charged or convicted on any grounds of corruption or theft. The middle-aged and elderly people, women and families that comprise the bulk of daily PAD attendances (from my observation) have not been bussed in in large numbers for a one-off Nuremberg-style rally such as we've seen tonight. The PAD have been invariably right in their analysis, though most agree their "New Politics" needs more discussion. The UDD and their PPP backers seem to have only one agendum, to overturn the law and the constitution in favour of their Leader, a man whose criminality has been established, but whose resources can buy him loyalty in a patronal society.

Well-resourced political leaders throughout the world have always been able to mobilize the numbers. It tells us nothing about minorities or majorities.

The place only holds 70,000 and was reported not full.

90,000 is <deleted>. Best inflated estimate 50k

Maybe next time you can use a counter to get a exact number for your arguements. It doesnt matter if it was 70,000 or 90,000 or over 100,000. The fact is that a lot of people will spend their Saturdays showing their support for true democracy in Thailand and not a backward Elite appointed government proposed by PAD. It must be hard to see so many Thais not agreeing with your ideas for the PAD utopia all of a sudden. Dont worry Im sure Sondhi and his mob crew are planning away and they are sure to have some events to stir the pot.

0.14 percent of the populace. A HUGE number for ONE EVENING.

Bird Mackintire draws that for one gig, Acadamy Fantasia the same.

And whore house running thug too.

Got cash and a bus will travel. Especially when you get a free day to shop in Bkk

or just to visit the children in the big city.

Your meaning is that PAD leaders that can't attract a crowd anywhere near this size are underachievers and that their popularity is closer to a second rate countryside entertainer ? I think everybody agree with that.

And again I agree with you regarding the supporters : The middle-aged and elderly people, women and families, basically the bored and the unemployed attend PAD meetings (support would be a too strong word). On the other hand you will notice that Thaksin organizes a meeting on Saturday night, a time when regularly employed people can attend. It's true that when you have to earn your leaving, your priorities and choices are different compare to people who just collect attendance fees ….

You forget for every non-employed mother or grandmother there is a FAMILY behind them.

There is a likely a family supporting any younger protester not doing a day job to protest also.

Also these people are LONG term,. easy to fill seats for ONE NIGHT.

Doing it for months at a time... is another animal entirely.

[OlRedEyes]

The current PM Somchai earlier flew up to Chiang Mai, while Thaksin is in Hong Kong saying... "people's power can bring him back to Thailiand"?

Does anyone happen to know if there are direct flights from Hong Kong to Chiang Mai? The conspiracy theories that one could read into things...

wouldn't that be funny.

A case in point, as virtually every post is. Does Thailand only attract the greatest morons in the world?

[khaowong1]

I don't understand what Thaksin thinks the King would do. Thaksin was found guilty and sentenced in a court of law. MAYBE, if Thaksin came back and went to prison, MAYBE the King might grant him a early release. But you know that Thaksin is never coming back to face his punishment. I feel sorry for him that he only has the money from selling his football club, to support his family.

[KKK]

Thaksin makes phone-in to address supporters now

He said he would like to come to visit his supporters but he could not because he was under 2-year jail term, which would force him to remain abroad for at least 10 years.

Source: The Nation - 01 November 2008

Er..excuse me..but if Thaksin considers himself innocent of the crimes for which he has been accused then shouldn't he return back to Thailand and appeal to clear himself of those charges. The longer he stays away the more truly guilty, in avoiding punishment, he becomes of those crimes. And asking for royal clemency: isn't that really saying "I'm guilty please forgive me".

[LaoPo]

The place only holds 70,000 and was reported not full.

90,000 is <deleted>. Best inflated estimate 50k

What do you care if there were....50, 60, 70 or 90,000 ? The total would be probably more than all people on Samui this moment

Claiming "<deleted>" if you haven't been there or based upon the photos/images in the papers/tv is a risky thing to say; the same for "Best inflated estimate..". You're just wildly guessing.

"They occupied most of 70,000 seats in the stadium and packed the field"

From The Nation:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Police-Fire-...75#entry2307175

But, again, what do you care ?

LaoPo

There are more migrant construction and support workers on Samui that the whole rally.

Not including the actual registered residents 50k and tourist transients.

Really ?...HOW do you know ?

But, that's not an answer to my question Animatic....is it ? The question was: What do YOU care if there were 50, 60, 70 or more thousands in that stadium. Why bother ?

And, I know most people guess there are some 50,000 -or more- migrant workers on Samui; the problem is, nobody ever counted them and there's no proof whether there are 20, 30 or 50,000 and there is no stadium on Samui which could possibly hold them all to count them.... It's just a guess.

And as you know guesses are wild...but YOU are more focused on your own perception that there were LESS than 90,000 people in that stadium....

Are you satisfied if there were -just- 50,000 ?

OK, so be it: 50,000

LaoPo

[jitagon]

I'm so happy seeing I'm not the only one who loves Khun Thaksin and Thai Rak Thai / PPP.

90,000 people is not minority.

90,000 people is a respectable number, though quite a few to pack in to a stadium that seats 70,000. Will be interested to get some qualification whether the attendees were paid to attend and bussed in as alleged. However, in comparing demonstrations, it's a bigger deal to have a sustained demonstration of tens of thousands lasting months (PAD, through all types of weather and various venues) than to have a one-off event with paid attendees.

This is very dangerous ground that Toxic is skating on asking for Royal Kindness, as it publicly seeks to put HM on the spot. Then the latter is for all intents and purposes above politics and such matter of clemency are done via the Privy Council.

I agree. Plus, by widening the playing field to include a Royal pardon, Thaksin and wife stand to lose face if they don't receive such pardons - particularly at such times (King's b'day) when pardons are handed out en masse.

Koo82, you're entitled to love whom you please, but I for one, have trouble loving someone who so effectively turned Thailand in to his personal fiefdom, squeezing ever larger amounts of lucre toward his own purse. A man who, after the first massacre of Moslem protestors in Thailand's south, declared "from now on, whenever such problems arise, I will be personally in charge" - ......yet, when the second, larger massacre took place a few months later, and Khun Thaksin was directly involved with moment by moment proceedings, ....and when things went tragically wrong, and dozens of young men died as the direct result of mishandling, Thaksin took no responsibility. He did not even reprimand the officials in charge of that second massacre - nor even direct that an investigation of the matter.

The list of ways he seriously harmed Thailand goes on and on. I could not love a man like that.

BBC World had a piece this morning on the Taksin rally last night panning over all the red shirts and zooming in on some poor old duck, tears streaming from her eyes screaming Taksin's name. I logged on to the BBC website to see the piece in print, and there was Jonathan Head again with his usual pro Taksin stance, ending with the line 'many more people at the pro Taksin rally than ever at the PAD'!?, or words to that effect.

I winged one off to the BBC to politely point out what you have said about large numbers of bussed in, possibly paid for, but undeniably hopeful that their 'patron' will return for just the one night, against the huge numbers on the PAD side who have camped out in all weathers from months. I then went on to ask them if they might ask Mr Head to try to remember just what Taksin did whilst in office, I presume he was here? Or if not, he could always look it up All the shady deals, war on drugs, suppression of freedom of speech (sacking astv staff and threatening the press). My personal favourite - his pet (no pun intended) project, the new Chiang Mai Zoo, proposing putting some of it's more exotic species on the restaurant menu!

No. I see nothing to lurve about the bugger either.

[Artisi]

Doesn't really matter much how few there were - it was a p!ss poor turn-out any way as a show of support for the Kengsington kid and the pretend goverment he is running from afar. For one who believes he has the majority of the country on his side it now seems he is badly mistaken considering you can get more attending a sporting event -- and for that you have to pay your own way.

It would be interesting to know how many of his lackies would still be round after after a continuous 160 or so days seeing as how most couldn't stay past their bed time last night.

[cmsally]

The issue of redshirts being paid to be bussed in may be partly true, as is the issue of yellowshirts being paid to attend daily rallies. However, these allegations have gotten terribly tired, and ignores the very obvious fact that there is widespread real support for both camps.

If everybody keeps, stupidly and dogmatically, taking the confrontational stance currently in vogue, this country is heading for civil war.

Most TV posters like to pride themselves on their perceived superior maturity compared to the general Thai population. It surely doesn't show in any of these many threads.

Most of you speak like childish idiots at a soccer (or football - take your bloody pick) game, I am sad to say.

So many of you say you love Thailand..... You get all uppity if someone says something bad about it or the Thai people, or if international media reports cast it in a bad light. Grow up, realize what civil war means, and try to help bring about reconciliation rather than stoking hatred.

Quite right, all we seem to see is a entrenchment of the extremes on this forum.

There are of course many issues that make up this mess of a political scenario, but the conciliation is going to have to be at the elite level because that is where the problems are. Your ordinary Thai and also actually not so ordinary Thai, just wants to get on with their life and business. The numbers and shirts and all the paraphernalia are just a symbol behind the opposing elite sides. On one level it is just a vent for frustrations of normal daily life when opposition and "an individual voice" are frowned upon. The numbers game is in the end just a visual endorsement. It is the last resort after all the power channels have been explored - namely judicial, electoral, military, personal and group affiliations etc.

I am sure that if this were 20yrs ago we would have already had a coup "and forfeited US$20 and whatever and gone back to start". Bit like playing one of those board games.

What we are seeing now is a bargaining stalemate. After months of the PAD monopolising the numbers and foul language game. The UDD thought they would join in but missed out on the foul language. In fact the tone of the speeches was one thing noted by many Thais this morning after hearing the foul PAD rhetoric for so long. Just imagine the uproar if we had heard the same language coming from the Red Shirts!

On the one side you are saying that Thaksin should not be able to run the country like a family business, which is of course true. But the other side, is that without him you have others who aspire to run the country as their business. Maybe a few more to share the cake or not. With or without the problems of vote buying the return to a selected government/ less people participation would be ludicrous, you can't lurch Thailand back to a feudal system.

To get things to work there have to be some major changes in the elite and government system. If anything there has to be a major cultural shift. When people think one thing but have to say something else it doesn't bode well.

When a people are not allowed to voice opinions and dissent I think you will find that what we see now is the result.

My view is that if you think Thailand under Thaksin was autocratic, if he totally backs down you will then see something that is really and truly autocratic. Whether the entrenchment is really coming from Thaksin's side is certainly questionable.

Edited November 2, 2008 by cmsally

[animatic]

The place only holds 70,000 and was reported not full.

90,000 is <deleted>. Best inflated estimate 50k

What do you care if there were....50, 60, 70 or 90,000 ? The total would be probably more than all people on Samui this moment

Claiming "<deleted>" if you haven't been there or based upon the photos/images in the papers/tv is a risky thing to say; the same for "Best inflated estimate..". You're just wildly guessing.

"They occupied most of 70,000 seats in the stadium and packed the field"

From The Nation:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Police-Fire-...75#entry2307175

But, again, what do you care ?

LaoPo

There are more migrant construction and support workers on Samui that the whole rally.

Not including the actual registered residents 50k and tourist transients.

Really ?...HOW do you know ?

But, that's not an answer to my question Animatic....is it ? The question was: What do YOU care if there were 50, 60, 70 or more thousands in that stadium. Why bother ?

And, I know most people guess there are some 50,000 -or more- migrant workers on Samui; the problem is, nobody ever counted them and there's no proof whether there are 20, 30 or 50,000 and there is no stadium on Samui which could possibly hold them all to count them.... It's just a guess.

And as you know guesses are wild...but YOU are more focused on your own perception that there were LESS than 90,000 people in that stadium....

Are you satisfied if there were -just- 50,000 ?

OK, so be it: 50,000

LaoPo

I was looking at their best number 90k and saying it's small period.

Yes they did try counting them here.

A small team went around the island and, unofficially, asked for the number of people at the camps.

This calculation over 3 nights work came to well over 120,000 'non family book people' on island.

The point being to find out 'how many bodies are out there needing water and other unavoidable services'.

I know one of the counters. This is what he said.

The OFFICAL population is just 50,000 at all times. This is registered family book people on island.

And doesn't come close to actual bodies. Many people work the resorts, but return home to vote etc.

Often the young don't change a family book listing until married. The government makes it too hard to.

But they wanted/needed to know something approximating to actual numbers.

Not including tourist flow through.

So that puts the island around 175k - 200k at most tourist prone times.

And it roughly reflects water usage on island too.

This was a big point during the last election.

[bangon04]

0.14 percent of the populace. A HUGE number for ONE EVENING.

Bird Mackintire draws that for one gig, Acadamy Fantasia the same.

And whore house running thug too.

Got cash and a bus will travel. Especially when you get a free day to shop in Bkk

or just to visit the children in the big city.

Your meaning is that PAD leaders that can't attract a crowd anywhere near this size are underachievers and that their popularity is closer to a second rate countryside entertainer ? I think everybody agree with that.

And again I agree with you regarding the supporters : The middle-aged and elderly people, women and families, basically the bored and the unemployed attend PAD meetings (support would be a too strong word). On the other hand you will notice that Thaksin organizes a meeting on Saturday night, a time when regularly employed people can attend. It's true that when you have to earn your leaving, your priorities and choices are different compare to people who just collect attendance fees ….

The intelligent well-educated elite in Bangkok will pay up to 5000 baht for a ticket to see Bird......

[hammered]

Interesting if you sit back and forget the emotional stuff.

It is out in the open, if it ever wasnt, that Thaksin wants to come back and be a player again and this is the end desire of this side of the divide. Basically a return to pre-coup times It is also dressed in the Thaksinista version of democracy - elections but little else. One of the things his opponents have messed up on tactically is to allow him to paint it as democaracy versus non-democracy. Thaksin's version of democracy involved a lot of non-democratic priniples. However, his democracy backing opponents and there are plenty of them find the ground removed from them here by the New Politics arguement. That enables the red side to amke the arguement that theyare the defenders of democracy. They certainly are the defenders of a version of democracy but not necessarily one that anyone of a liberal persuasion would want to defend.

Thaksin is also good at muddying waters. Every time he has ever had legal problems he has always used the I am popular argument which of course is false and helps to polarise but is effective if division is to be avoided.

The red side have also been able to guage the volume of their base (unpaid) support and their ability to boost these numbers with organized and bussed in extras. This is quite important for future events of this kind. The red side tend to go for large one off short term demos while the PAD tend to go for elongated events of usually lesser size boosted at critical times.

The response of his opponents including the non-PAD ones will be intersting too.

[brahmburgers]

Yes well the farang pro-PAD right-wingers on this forum can keep dreaming up excuses and trot out the tired old suggestion that the pro-Thaksin-pro-democracy supporters were paid to attend, blah, blah..

But just have a look at all the responses in the Forum section of the new Bangkok Post on Sunday (I'm regaining some faith in the Post) from what appears to be Thais and NOT farangs (I'm assuming Thais from their writing styles). They want democracy - they want Thaksin - they will NOT accept an elite appointed government or another right-wing coup.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/topstories/tops...s.php?id=131755 (the comments are below the sidebar story at the top)

Who puts the 'right wing' tag on PAD? In comparison, I would say TRT/PPP/Thaksin and his fans fit the description of 'right-wing' a lot more than PAD.

I'm not fully in favor of what the PAD people are doing, but I do admire their resolve and staying power. To sustain a somewhat effective and mostly non-violent demonstration over many months is an achievement in itself. I don't know exactly what they say, but I would venture one of their main objectives is to get a responsible non-corrupt government

in office that is dedicated to tangibly assisting all Thais - particularly the disadvantaged. It's a shame Sonthi is one of the figureheads, as he sounds irresponsible (avoiding paying back debts, etc), and it's a shame there was serious talk by PAD to skirt around a fully democratically elected government. Do they still propose appointing government members? I hope not, as it hurts their cause to espouse that.

For it's faults, PAD appears to offer a whole lot better group of leaders than what Thaksin/Samak/Somchai types offer.

That being said, if the Thai people vote for thugs in a free and fair election (ok, I can hear the chuckles already), then the Thais deserve what they get.

PAD should put much of its resources towards mobilizing and getting ready for the next election. The best way to effect change is through the ballot box. Thailand still has a long way to go - toward fair and untainted elections - but the longest journey begins with the first few steps. It's not too late to invigorate the processes now. Also; allow candidates to campaign and have debate debates/forums. In the last big election that didn't happen. A big part of the reason is Thai VIP's are so quick to slap defamation suits on each other - so any unflattering mention by one candidate about another could lead to a lawsuit. Petty bull$hit. My message to Thai political candidates: quit being so thin-skinned and step up to the dais and tell ordinary people what tangible things you would do to make their lives better.

[Sandstone Art]

What is this freak trying to imply?

It's like some kind of bargain going on here.

If there is no royal pardon or forgiveness, he want a major revolution by the public to show the world how powerful he is?

This guy just need to bow out of the scene for you!

[Bangyai]

It's not impossible to remove Thaksin from Thailand...

PAD success as temple statue is changed following protest at Banglamung Temple

Yesterday we reported on a PAD demonstration at the Banglamung Temple over a new Buddhist statue base which featured a sculpture of the former Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra. The base was intended to celebrate the role of influential government figures and the PAD demonstrators were angry that the former Prime Minister, who is now in exile in UK, was featured.

They demanded that he be removed from the base within 7 days or further action would be taken. We can now report that on Thursday morning he was removed from the base to the delight of the local PAD supporters who thanked the temple and architect for their prompt action.

- Pattaya One News / 2008-10-30

And meanwhile, back at the ranch, the UDD came up with this

[cmsally]

What is this freak trying to imply?

It's like some kind of bargain going on here.

If there is no royal pardon or forgiveness, he want a major revolution by the public to show the world how powerful he is?

This guy just need to bow out of the scene for you!

Presumably your more informed political opinion will be in episode 2, and is to follow later

[Samuian]

What is this freak trying to imply?

It's like some kind of bargain going on here.

If there is no royal pardon or forgiveness, he want a major revolution by the public to show the world how powerful he is?

This guy just need to bow out of the scene for you!

My first thoughts when I read this message too! And it might be very close to his real intentions hidden in there....

This convicted mans plea to "HM kindness and the power of the people", his disregard towards the sentence handed down by a court of law, again reflects his true character, whatever he will not rest until his comeback is staged on a red carpet, he may have aimed one wee bit too far in drawing on the kindness of HM, as he doesn't stop short of anything right now, he may raise the stakes himself and maybe find himself declared PNG!

Then there will be no question any more of his return an some staged "glorious comeback" of a scum back!

Edited November 2, 2008 by Samuian

[PeaceBlondie]

BEGS? Where did Taksin get on his knees and beg? Beg for forgiveness? I do not see it in the news.

[grandpops]

Doesn't really matter much how few there were - it was a p!ss poor turn-out any way as a show of support for the Kengsington kid and the pretend goverment he is running from afar. For one who believes he has the majority of the country on his side it now seems he is badly mistaken considering you can get more attending a sporting event -- and for that you have to pay your own way.

It would be interesting to know how many of his lackies would still be round after after a continuous 160 or so days seeing as how most couldn't stay past their bed time last night.

Be interesting to see that if after 2 years of whining and protesting by the non elected, non-electable PAD if they could give the PPP/TRT/democrat/army party a run for their money in an ELECTION.

I can say for certain that Thailand is no more or less corrupt this past 8 years than in the 10 years prior to Thaksin's emergence on the scent. Certainly, more has been done for health care and education for the population as a whole.

This, from the Bangkok Post I can entirely agree with. How dare anybody from anyside claim the patriotic high ground. Thais of all persuasion are very patriotic love HM devotedly. Who is Sondhi to suggets otherwise?

Somyos Chainukul, 47, from Nonthaburi, said he wanted to tell the PAD that they are not the only patriotic force in the country.

"I can't stand it when they act as if they are more patriotic than everyone else," Mr Somyos said.

Quite right.