The Poorest People

[Koo82]

My observations are that most of the fact that the poor are poor money managers. I've known and heard of many who make lifelong saleries of 20k+THB/mo and have nothing to show for it when retirment time comes. That is simply poor money management, especially when they drink and gamble. again...no pitty!!

Well, I am beginning to wonder why you even asked the question ??

You have all the answers, but you don't see them..nor do you acknowledge how they came about and why these problems will stay.

Pitty or not, but it is hard to blame people for things they never learned. Don't be that harsh on fellow human beings.

He didn't raise the question. He shared what he thinks / feels.

[Moonrakers]

My observations are that most of the fact that the poor are poor money managers. I've known and heard of many who make lifelong saleries of 20k+THB/mo and have nothing to show for it when retirment time comes. That is simply poor money management, especially when they drink and gamble. again...no pitty!!

Well, I am beginning to wonder why you even asked the question ??

You have all the answers, but you don't see them..nor do you acknowledge how they came about and why these problems will stay.

Pitty or not, but it is hard to blame people for things they never learned. Don't be that harsh on fellow human beings.

He didn't raise the question. He shared what he thinks / feels.

He did ask the original question.

WHY????, is a question.

[Koo82]

Future is not important to them.

The 'future' is not important to them because they are much more concerned about how they will feed themselves and their families TODAY. That's the first thing on their minds each and every morning as soon as they wake up. And getting a bit pissed up and watching some pretty gunpowdered light show now and then to alleviate the stress and boredom of this fact of their lives, is all they can afford.

I see what you meant, but what they do TODAY will make their future bad.

Many people around here me p_ss me off, but I won't spend money that way. It can't get me out from the current troubles.

[dingdongrb]

My observations are that most of the fact that the poor are poor money managers. I've known and heard of many who make lifelong saleries of 20k+THB/mo and have nothing to show for it when retirment time comes. That is simply poor money management, especially when they drink and gamble. again...no pitty!!

Well, I am beginning to wonder why you even asked the question ??

You have all the answers, but you don't see them..nor do you acknowledge how they came about and why these problems will stay.

Pitty or not, but it is hard to blame people for things they never learned. Don't be that harsh on fellow human beings.

He didn't raise the question. He shared what he thinks / feels.

He did ask the original question.

WHY????, is a question.

"Why I think your are really spouting off there.'

(Not always.....)

[bonobo]

You can add me to that list. I made an awful lot of money in the late 90's and early 2000's, but after thinking the gravy train was never going to end, and after cruises, emerald jewelry, trips to France and Italy just for dining vacations, running down to Rio for Carnival, nice cars, etc., I don't have a whole lot in the bank, stocks, or in real estate to show for it. And I had the advantage of a good education and a father who taught me (or tried to teach me) to scrimp and save for the future.

Saving for the future and living within your means is smart, and yes, we all should do it. But it is human nature to spend what you have and live for today. The poor in Thailand are no different would most likely resent anyone trying to tell them what to do with their money.

If you are one of the people who do save and live within your means, good on you. But I would hazard to guess that most people are not as disciplined.

The part in bold is interesting. You pissed it all away and yet you say your education and upbringing should have allowed you to do the opposite.

Uh yes, that was the point here. I should have known better, but I still wasted most of what I earned. Some posters have opined here that "the poor" don't have an education, so they waste what they do make. I am an example of someone with an education, with a father who tried to teach me thriftiness, who basically wasted what he made. I screwed up.  Not someone else, not someone I read about.  Me. So while I would join the bandwagon and tell people to save and live within their means, I also realize that human nature results in many people living for today. I screwed up with those advantages, so to think that someone without those advantages would do the same is hardly surprising.

Edited November 3, 2008 by bonobo

[jayjayjayjay]

WHY????

I figure there happy with there lot, a drink and a wizbang firework makes them happy!

[Koo82]

Have you ever asked "Did you eat rice?" (keen kaw ruo young?) or "Where are you going?"

What you really want to do is to say hi like a Thai.

You don't give a shat if the person has eaten or where the heck he goes.

The OP hoped to create a healthy debate. That's what I feel.

[jaideeguy]

'The OP hoped to create a healthy debate. That's what I feel.'

That's not really exactly what I wanted to do...i just wanted to see if others see what I see.

I am guilty of generalizing about the poor.....there are exceptions, but most just waste what little they have. No big problem if they are single and not responsible for their families, but everybody in LOS is responsible to their families.

When I see 8 yr old children with [high end] mobil phones munching on plastic garbage food wrappedin plastic and throwing it on the ground and papa doesn't have enough money to give them a decent education, clothes, food etc....it makes me kinda sick to my stomach. or girls that have to rent their body to help moma gamble and papa get drunk.

[grandpops]

The meanest most miseable people on this planet. The small hearted, tight fisted moaning minnies with bloated bodies and bloated partnerst all have one thing in common.

THEY ARE RICH!

The richer they are the more screwed up they get, the more narcisistic, paranoid and delusional.

You ever go out in the west end restraurants in London and see anybody smile or joke... other than if some poor soul doesn't know which spoon to use first.

[BigSnake]

WHY, because the cheap booze(rice wine, etc) is all they can afford so they get drunk buy the firework a raise H#L#. Sad to say so are seriously injure in their merry making, with little or no assess to aquate medical care.

[Moothon]

Do you have any idea how many people died yesterday that had money in the bank and never got to spend it? fuc_k that.

[Shotime]

The meanest most miseable people on this planet. The small hearted, tight fisted moaning minnies with bloated bodies and bloated partnerst all have one thing in common.

THEY ARE RICH!

The richer they are the more screwed up they get, the more narcisistic, paranoid and delusional.

You ever go out in the west end restraurants in London and see anybody smile or joke... other than if some poor soul doesn't know which spoon to use first.

Their misery has nothing to do with being rich, it's from being married.

My wife and I were happy for 20 years, and then we met.

[grandpops]

The meanest most miseable people on this planet. The small hearted, tight fisted moaning minnies with bloated bodies and bloated partnerst all have one thing in common.

THEY ARE RICH!

The richer they are the more screwed up they get, the more narcisistic, paranoid and delusional.

You ever go out in the west end restraurants in London and see anybody smile or joke... other than if some poor soul doesn't know which spoon to use first.

Their misery has nothing to do with being rich, it's from being married.

My wife and I were happy for 20 years, and then we met.

Thats right.

I lost my home, money and job when I split with the wife.

That was the start of the happiest period of my life by a long way. I learned the value of money (useful for food and getting around etc.) and the importance of friends and simple fun and the enjoyment of life itself.

With the wife and money still in place I would never have found Asia or the happiniess I have had for ten years with my Thai family living in our cheap rented bungalow blowing our pittiful allowance (my dwindling pension) on parties and merrymaking.

[Maigo6]

Whereas Farangs from western countries are debt free, always live within their means, and are basically superior to the people from the country that they choose to be in ........

I have never met a Thai person that feels superior to a Farang, yet it seems that every Farang and his dog feels superior to Thai people....

Really, I've been here for years and Farangs really do feel that they are better, quite pathetic actually, I love to see Farangs bow to their kneees when it comes tro Visa time.

Not one of them will dare to slag off Thai people in front of an immigration policeman, ( or a Thai man ), yet on ThaiVisa they are all internet warriors capable of anything.....

Edited November 3, 2008 by Maigo6

[chickenslegs]

^ I understand your frustration at some of the fools who post their opinions here, but you bring yourself down to their level with posts like this. It is ridiculous to assert that all 'farang' are the same and feel superior to all Thais.

[benjamat]

After living in Asia for 15+ years, I find it hard to pitty the poor!!!!

Heaven help me, how can comments such as this possibly be justified, especially when they come from people who have never had to live the life that poor asians have to live.

What do you think happens in your own country?

Levels of debt amongst the poor in the west are proportionately massively higher than that of the middle classes. This debt is incurred in the main not to live but to aquire the things they see more well off people enjoying. In addition when you live a life that presents little hope it is understandable that from time to time you want to enrich your life a little.

All this is no different from poor people anywhere in the world and to suggest that there is something different about Asians is frankly offensive. I hope that this was not what you intended.

[benjamat]

My observations are that most of the fact that the poor are poor money managers. I've known and heard of many who make lifelong saleries of 20k+THB/mo and have nothing to show for it when retirment time comes. That is simply poor money management, especially when they drink and gamble. again...no pitty!!

Well, I am beginning to wonder why you even asked the question ??

You have all the answers, but you don't see them..nor do you acknowledge how they came about and why these problems will stay.

Pitty or not, but it is hard to blame people for things they never learned. Don't be that harsh on fellow human beings.

6 million people in the UK have arrived at retirement in the last ten years with no provision for retirement other than state pension.

[Shotime]

Whereas Farangs from western countries are debt free, always live within their means, and are basically superior to the people from the country that they choose to be in ........

I have never met a Thai person that feels superior to a Farang, yet it seems that every Farang and his dog feels superior to Thai people....

Really, I've been here for years and Farangs really do feel that they are better, quite pathetic actually, I love to see Farangs bow to their kneees when it comes tro Visa time.

Not one of them will dare to slag off Thai people in front of an immigration policeman, ( or a Thai man ), yet on ThaiVisa they are all internet warriors capable of anything.....

I'm trying to find where the "Whereas Farangs from western countries are debt free..." is coming from. Most of the posts are not saying what you're being sarcastic (not sure this is the right word) about. Most of what you say in your posts have some validity, but you should stop being guilty of what you're so consistently defending. I think the use of the word "farang" is as prejudicial as when others use "Thais." Maybe I'm not being clear, but realize you're only keeping the ball rolling.

[MKAsok]

The poor are creating their own problem and I don't see why the 1st world should bust a nut to help people who should be solving their own problem in the first place.

Yeah! Right on! I hope you're listening poor people! What's wrong with you all? STOP BEING POOR!

[RoyJones]

some funny posts here, also seems like some posters are trying to boost there self esteem also with farang back slapping and typing about how much better they are then poor people.

[polecat]

some funny posts here, also seems like some posters are trying to boost there self esteem also with farang back slapping and typing about how much better they are then poor people.

And you?

[bendix]

some funny posts here, also seems like some posters are trying to boost there self esteem also with farang back slapping and typing about how much better they are then poor people.

. . . the irony being, of course, that most farang in Thailand are here because it's so cheap, and - given their skills, education etc - would be among the poorest of the poor back home.

Frankly, half of them are barely eking a living here in Thailand.

[Chaimai]

6 million people in the UK have arrived at retirement in the last ten years with no provision for retirement other than state pension.

That should equip them for living in Thailand and adapting quickly to the local culture.

[Shotime]

6 million people in the UK have arrived at retirement in the last ten years with no provision for retirement other than state pension.

That should equip them for living in Thailand and adapting quickly to the local culture.

Not totally. They may not be able to afford firecrackers.

[polecat]

. . . the irony being, of course, that most farang in Thailand are here because it's so cheap, and - given their skills, education etc - would be among the poorest of the poor back home.

Frankly, half of them are barely eking a living here in Thailand.

Not sure about that, actually, Bendix. Most farang I know who are working for modest wages here (20-40k p/m, I guess)are generally quite bright, university-educated folk. Many of them chose teaching English and living modestly in an exotic location instead of remaining in their home country, joining a company, getting married, buying a car, saving for an annual holiday, having kids, watching TV, going to the pub on Sunday afternoon, blah, blah, blah. I can understand that choice.

The second part of your post is more valid, I think. Obviously the job market here is more constrained for farang than Thais (and so it should be), so there's probably less opportunity to climb the ladder. But it's a trade-off, I reckon. Pull in less money than a shelf-stacker in your hometown, but go to sleep to the sound of cicadas and wake up to the sight of palm trees. There's a value in that.

(Of course, I bet most would like to go to sleep to the sound of cicadas and wake up to the sight of palm trees AND have a top-of-the-line SUV and expense account for Lord Jim's at the Oriental but... slowly, slowly, catchy monkey )

[bkkjames]

some funny posts here, also seems like some posters are trying to boost there self esteem also with farang back slapping and typing about how much better they are then poor people.

. . . the irony being, of course, that most farang in Thailand are here because it's so cheap, and - given their skills, education etc - would be among the poorest of the poor back home.

Frankly, half of them are barely eking a living here in Thailand.

Bender, no need to bring up your personal life on this thread, thanks.

[Denim]

you forgot gambling

True. A lot of people around here ( Khon Kaen ) are hopelessly addicted to the Huai Dtai Din underground lottery and fritter away large amounts on it after any dream they have that seems like a divine pointer at a winning number

[geriatrickid]

. . . the irony being, of course, that most farang in Thailand are here because it's so cheap, and - given their skills, education etc - would be among the poorest of the poor back home.

Frankly, half of them are barely eking a living here in Thailand.

Not sure about that, actually, Bendix. Most farang I know who are working for modest wages here (20-40k p/m, I guess)are generally quite bright, university-educated folk. Many of them chose teaching English and living modestly in an exotic location instead of remaining in their home country, joining a company, getting married, buying a car, saving for an annual holiday, having kids, watching TV, going to the pub on Sunday afternoon, blah, blah, blah. I can understand that choice.

The second part of your post is more valid, I think. Obviously the job market here is more constrained for farang than Thais (and so it should be), so there's probably less opportunity to climb the ladder. But it's a trade-off, I reckon. Pull in less money than a shelf-stacker in your hometown, but go to sleep to the sound of cicadas and wake up to the sight of palm trees. There's a value in that.

(Of course, I bet most would like to go to sleep to the sound of cicadas and wake up to the sight of palm trees AND have a top-of-the-line SUV and expense account for Lord Jim's at the Oriental but... slowly, slowly, catchy monkey )

I would lean more toward's Bendix' views. Alot of these farangs would be toast in their own job markets. I appreciate that some of the farangs here have selected lucrative niches, and they deserve credit for being savvy entrepreneurs, but those people are in the minority. Your view focuses on a younger demographic and maybe you're right for that segment. You're obviously closer to it than I am, so I can't say otherwise, but the reality is that most of the farangs in Thailand are over 60.

I put it to you, that an impoverished Thai has a better shot at happiness and surviving than one of the elderly single farang pensioners. That farang can't look to the kindness or support of the locals the same way a Thai can. No family and most likely no trusted close friends that can act in a time of crisis. Those are assets you can't easily acquire. Wealth must be measured as a summation of assets and not just the single money component.

[bkkjames]

. . . the irony being, of course, that most farang in Thailand are here because it's so cheap, and - given their skills, education etc - would be among the poorest of the poor back home.

Frankly, half of them are barely eking a living here in Thailand.

Not sure about that, actually, Bendix. Most farang I know who are working for modest wages here (20-40k p/m, I guess)are generally quite bright, university-educated folk. Many of them chose teaching English and living modestly in an exotic location instead of remaining in their home country, joining a company, getting married, buying a car, saving for an annual holiday, having kids, watching TV, going to the pub on Sunday afternoon, blah, blah, blah. I can understand that choice.

The second part of your post is more valid, I think. Obviously the job market here is more constrained for farang than Thais (and so it should be), so there's probably less opportunity to climb the ladder. But it's a trade-off, I reckon. Pull in less money than a shelf-stacker in your hometown, but go to sleep to the sound of cicadas and wake up to the sight of palm trees. There's a value in that.

(Of course, I bet most would like to go to sleep to the sound of cicadas and wake up to the sight of palm trees AND have a top-of-the-line SUV and expense account for Lord Jim's at the Oriental but... slowly, slowly, catchy monkey )

I would lean more toward's Bendix' views. Alot of these farangs would be toast in their own job markets. I appreciate that some of the farangs here have selected lucrative niches, and they deserve credit for being savvy entrepreneurs, but those people are in the minority. Your view focuses on a younger demographic and maybe you're right for that segment. You're obviously closer to it than I am, so I can't say otherwise, but the reality is that most of the farangs in Thailand are over 60.

I put it to you, that an impoverished Thai has a better shot at happiness and surviving than one of the elderly single farang pensioners. That farang can't look to the kindness or support of the locals the same way a Thai can. No family and most likely no trusted close friends that can act in a time of crisis. Those are assets you can't easily acquire. Wealth must be measured as a summation of assets and not just the single money component.

I would suggest the the vast majority of working farangs are under sixty. Most of the guys I know are between 30-50, working in offices, as either MD or other Senior VP roles...hardly the demographic described by Bendix.

[polecat]

Fair enough geriatrickid, although if this is true:

the reality is that most of the farangs in Thailand are over 60.

then we're not really talking about workers, but retirees (or semi-retirees).

My reference to English teachers was purely in relation to farangs at the lower end of the salary scale, not all farangs. I think I remember the visa regulations that came into effect a couple of years ago (?) had teaching with the lowest necessary wage bracket. (Is that right? My memory's shocking. I might be closer to your age, geriatrickid, than you think!)