Free Pass To Overstay

[Falcon]

Hi,

Just wanted to tell you guys something that happened today which i cannot understand and which has left me in a state of shock considering everything that has ever been said on TV and in the press, etc.

I have a friend, American national, 62 years old who has been here for the past 3 and a half months - 60 days of it legally on a walk in 30 days x 2 and the rest (40 days) on overstay due, in part to losing his passport and money. He has no money whatsoever and nowhere to stay so has been sleeping rough for the past 5 days, I had been taking care of his hotel but everything has to come to an end right!?. He has no family members in the US that are able to send him any money so this morning (Monday) he went to the US embassy who gave him a paper stating his name, passport number, etc and as he was "homeless" and broke they told him where the immigration (Suan Plu) headquarters were and advised him to go down there to report himself as being on overstay and at least he would have somewhere to be until he gets some money together - yesterday I gave him 500 baht in order to get something to eat, to clean himself a bit, to use for transport down to the embassy/immigration, etc and to have something to tide him over for food, etc. whilst I tried to sort out something to get him out and go back to the US.

He went in to the immigration at 11am, or so he thought and was explaining his situation to the officer on the desk but after all that, was told that "this is police station, immigration next door" so he thanked them and left to go next door. He then went to immigration and saw a female officer on the desk and explained to her his situation and told her he was 40 days overstay, her response? "Yes, and......"?? he answered well, "I am here to surrender myself as I have overstayed for 40 days", she replied "so what do you want me to do about it"? he said "well, are you not going to arrest me as i have overstayed for 40 days"? she replied, "no, no problem, you have passport"? he replied that he didnt and explained it slower this time thinking that she must not have understood him and what he was saying and told her that he had no passport, only the letter from the embassy giving his pp number, etc. which he then showed her. She took a look at it and said, "if any police stop you show them this letter and that is ok, no problem". He asked "but what about the overstay problem, I have no money to pay so are you not going to arrest me"?, her reply, "no problem, come back when you have passport and money and then pay for overstay and we will give you new visa"!!

He is obviously in a state of shock, seems the overstaying crime is no longer a heinous crime any more and people are free to do whatever they want!

Anyone else encountered anything like this at all or is it a first, it truly is a first for me. I have never seen or heard anything like this in the 14 years that i have been here.

TIT is an understatement!!!

Falcon

[hansnl]

Hi,

Just wanted to tell you guys something that happened today which i cannot understand and which has left me in a state of shock considering everything that has ever been said on TV and in the press, etc.

I have a friend, American national, 62 years old who has been here for the past 3 and a half months - 60 days of it legally on a walk in 30 days x 2 and the rest (40 days) on overstay due, in part to losing his passport and money. He has no money whatsoever and nowhere to stay so has been sleeping rough for the past 5 days, I had been taking care of his hotel but everything has to come to an end right!?. He has no family members in the US that are able to send him any money so this morning (Monday) he went to the US embassy who gave him a paper stating his name, passport number, etc and as he was "homeless" and broke they told him where the immigration (Suan Plu) headquarters were and advised him to go down there to report himself as being on overstay and at least he would have somewhere to be until he gets some money together - yesterday I gave him 500 baht in order to get something to eat, to clean himself a bit, to use for transport down to the embassy/immigration, etc and to have something to tide him over for food, etc. whilst I tried to sort out something to get him out and go back to the US.

He went in to the immigration at 11am, or so he thought and was explaining his situation to the officer on the desk but after all that, was told that "this is police station, immigration next door" so he thanked them and left to go next door. He then went to immigration and saw a female officer on the desk and explained to her his situation and told her he was 40 days overstay, her response? "Yes, and......"?? he answered well, "I am here to surrender myself as I have overstayed for 40 days", she replied "so what do you want me to do about it"? he said "well, are you not going to arrest me as i have overstayed for 40 days"? she replied, "no, no problem, you have passport"? he replied that he didnt and explained it slower this time thinking that she must not have understood him and what he was saying and told her that he had no passport, only the letter from the embassy giving his pp number, etc. which he then showed her. She took a look at it and said, "if any police stop you show them this letter and that is ok, no problem". He asked "but what about the overstay problem, I have no money to pay so are you not going to arrest me"?, her reply, "no problem, come back when you have passport and money and then pay for overstay and we will give you new visa"!!

He is obviously in a state of shock, seems the overstaying crime is no longer a heinous crime any more and people are free to do whatever they want!

Anyone else encountered anything like this at all or is it a first, it truly is a first for me. I have never seen or heard anything like this in the 14 years that i have been here.

TIT is an understatement!!!

Falcon

^{I LOVE THAILAND}

[cali4995]

The paper from the embassy is just "proof of identity". It doesn't provide his exact visa

details, entry dates etc,. If he also has a police report showing loss of passport (also not

showing exact visa details) No-one really has cause to hassle him much. As he appears to

be a victim of unfortunate circumstance. According to the letter of the law he's illegal of

course but seems to have run into the decent sort at immigration and hopefully is able

to get his situation sorted-out. This place is not very kind to those down on their luck.

AND he will be paying the overstay 20k in the end so not really a free-pass, whether it

was due to theft or just carelessness the gent seems to have got himself in a real spot.

Edited November 3, 2008 by cali4995

[Mario2008]

Be glad they didn't arrest him. They could have fined him for overstay and detained him till he had paid his fine and has a ticket out of the country. Immigration jail ain't the nicest place in Thailand, although they would have fed him.

[ubonjoe]

He will still have to pay the overstay before he is able to leave the country. But his situation of going to immigration is not much different than going there paying an overstay along with getting a 7 day visa. If you voluntarily turn yourself in they don't seem to make a big deal out it. Get caught and it's a different story.

What bothers me the most is that the US consulate told him to go to immigration and get locked up. That just doesn't seem to be right.

Maybe they are waiting for confirmation that he is truly a US citizen. They have the ability to loan him the money to live on and buy a ticket. Please note I said loan it is not a freebee. If he gets a loan they will put a stamp in his passport that will keep him from leaving the states until he repays the loan. They will not however loan the money to pay the overstay that will be 20,000 baht since he has reached the max already.

I admire you for giving him a hand. It's sad to say that many others wouldn't.

Edited November 3, 2008 by ubonjoe

[Falcon]

Be glad they didn't arrest him. They could have fined him for overstay and detained him till he had paid his fine and has a ticket out of the country. Immigration jail ain't the nicest place in Thailand, although they would have fed him.

This was really the idea, he had adjusted himself to staying in jail until money arrived for him to pay, get his new passport, get his flight and then go back to the US. At least he would have had somewhere dry to stay, something to eat and somewhere where people would know where he was other than aimlessly wandering the streets.

This place really never ceases to amaze me!

[Falcon]

Hi UbonJoe,

What bothers me the most is that the US consulate told him to go to immigration and get locked up. That just doesn't seem to be right. Maybe they are waiting for confirmation that he is truly a US citizen. They have the ability to loan him the money to live on and buy a ticket. Please note I said loan it is not a freebee. If he gets a loan they will put a stamp in his passport that will keep him from leaving the states until he repays the loan. They will not however loan the money to pay the overstay that will be 20,000 baht since he has reached the max already.

Well, the fact is that they got in touch with the state department to check his status and as he is "known" to the state department they obviously confirmed it right away. However, this is the other problem that i found out a few days ago! He had the same problem in Africa a couple years ago and went to the US embassy there and they, as you said above, gave him money to support himself for a couple days, gave him his airline ticket, etc. and stamped his passport on the back page (page 24) saying "cancelled" together with the date of cancellation (2 years ago!!). He was working in the US but for whatever reason never paid the Govt. back so never got to change his pp. He then decided to go traveling and had to use the cancelled passport to do so, how he got out of the US and in to 3 other countries I dont know other than the immigration obviously only looked at the front page showing the validity date, etc. and not the back page. Therefore, I would say that this is why the US embassy are not really bothered about helping him in any way.

I admire you for giving him a hand. It's sad to say that many others wouldn't.

Well, I have known him for a few years and he is a friend. Nothing to be admired for in my opinion to help a friend in need just that there must be a limit somewhere, especialy when it comes to the question of it affecting my family.

Anyway, after speaking to him again and knowing what he wants to do I am going to put him on the bus and send him to Pattaya, the immigration there are a bit more "with it" and will at least keep him there until i can help him to sort himself out.

Falcon

[Jingthing]

He had the same problem in Africa a couple years ago and went to the US embassy there and they, as you said above, gave him money to support himself for a couple days, gave him his airline ticket, etc. and stamped his passport on the back page (page 24) saying "cancelled" together with the date of cancellation (2 years ago!!).

That's interesting. As you know there is no passport control departing the US from an airport, so maybe it was up to the airline clerk to confirm the passport and they didn't notice it. I would have thought this info was maybe online linked to the passport number and could be seen by the airline computers, but I guess not.

Edited November 3, 2008 by Jingthing

[ubonjoe]

Hi UbonJoe,

Anyway, after speaking to him again and knowing what he wants to do I am going to put him on the bus and send him to Pattaya, the immigration there are a bit more "with it" and will at least keep him there until i can help him to sort himself out.

Falcon

Your friend has some serious issues. I understand now why the consulate didn't help anymore than they did. I guess that once you help him get things sorted out they will give him a emergency travel document but not a passport.

Like you and others I just can't understand how he ever got on an airplane. The airline made a big mistake when he checked in. Normally though when a passport is cancelled (when new one is issued) they put the stamp on the photo page. So I can see it being missed if it was on the back page.

I don't know if Pattaya immigration will be any different than Bangkok. Maybe you could find a Temple that will let him stay for a while that's often where Thai's go when they are down and out.

Standing by a friend is admirable.

Joe

Edited November 3, 2008 by ubonjoe

[cali4995]

Yes, Falcon that was decent of you to try and lend a helping hand, apparently only revealing

larger issues at play but still. In many places you can't even receive Western Union unless

you're able to prove your identity adequately. I'm not sure if Pattaya is the place to send

him, He may find the conditions in fun city, harsher than what he as experiencing in BKK.

There is some seriously budget accomodation on Soi Chaiyapoon (160/day) for the locals.

Edited November 4, 2008 by cali4995

[PoorSucker]

So he takes all the money he has and goes to Thailand for 30 days and losses everything.

I think you should be on suicide watch.

[pampal]

He had the same problem in Africa a couple years ago and went to the US embassy there and they, as you said above, gave him money to support himself for a couple days, gave him his airline ticket, etc. and stamped his passport on the back page (page 24) saying "cancelled" together with the date of cancellation (2 years ago!!).

That's interesting. As you know there is no passport control departing the US from an airport, so maybe it was up to the airline clerk to confirm the passport and they didn't notice it. I would have thought this info was maybe online linked to the passport number and could be seen by the airline computers, but I guess not.

Or he could have walked into Tijuana-Mexico and caught a flight out from there.

[pampal]

Yes, Falcon that was decent of you to try and lend a helping hand, apparently only revealing

larger issues at play but still. In many places you can't even receive Western Union unless

you're able to prove your identity adequately. I'm not sure if Pattaya is the place to send

him, He may find the conditions in fun city, harsher than what he as experiencing in BKK.

There is some seriously budget accomodation on Soi Chaiyapoon (160/day) for the locals.

He can find rooms from 100-150 baht/night on Soi Rambuttri behind

Khao Sarn Road

[farseer]

The very best thing to do is to put him in one of the temples in Bangkok, explain to the head monk the problem and they will give him a place to sleep, he will be able to shower etc, and the monks will give him food from what is left over everyday. The monks do well so he would never go hungry.

If he goes to jail, then he will see nobody from the outside for days on end, it will have no chance to sort himself out, he will be squashed up like a sardine 24 hours a day in an airless, stinky cell and the food is absolutely disgusting. Foreigners survive in there by buying food from the guards at heavily inflated prices.

If you are his friend then send him to a temple.

[astral]

............seems the overstaying crime is no longer a heinous crime any more and people are free to do whatever they want!

I am not sure where you ever got the idea that overstaying is such a heinous crime??

Just an adminstrative snafu.

Farseer's suggestion about the temple does make sense as a short term solution,

until the guy, or the US embassy can make arrangements to re-patriate him

[Falcon]

Hi farseer,

The very best thing to do is to put him in one of the temples in Bangkok, explain to the head monk the problem and they will give him a place to sleep, he will be able to shower etc, and the monks will give him food from what is left over everyday. The monks do well so he would never go hungry.

If he goes to jail, then he will see nobody from the outside for days on end, it will have no chance to sort himself out, he will be squashed up like a sardine 24 hours a day in an airless, stinky cell and the food is absolutely disgusting. Foreigners survive in there by buying food from the guards at heavily inflated prices.

If you are his friend then send him to a temple.

Thanks for the advice, I wouldnt have thought of this as he isnt Thai/Buddhist but I will try to take him down there tomorow. Where would you suggest? I dont know Bangkok very well as far as which temples to go to as we have only just moved up here after living in Jomtien for the past 14 years.

I will send this on PM to you too just in case you dont get to read this on the thread.

Thanks again, your comments are very much appreciated.

---------------------------------------------------

Astral,

I am not sure where you ever got the idea that overstaying is such a heinous crime??

Well, if you have been living here any length of time you will know that the immigration consider overstaying to be a terrible offence, or so they make it out to be when it suits them!!

[DegenFarang]

so whats the deal did they relax the enforcement of the rules without announcing it?

can i overstay 9 months and just pay a fine at the end of it?

[ubonjoe]

A temple would be a lot better than jail.

You said in your first post that he is 62 and it sounds like he would like to stay here. He is eligible for social security at age 62. I don't know how long it takes to get it started but he can apply while here. It might be a good long term solution and at least the first check would get the overstay taken care of and get him on the road to recovery. If he goes to the states he may end up on the streets there. His cost of living here for a month or so would be a lot less than a ticket to the states. For info on social security the following link to the embassy has info.

http://bangkok.usembassy.gov/service/feder...-and-taxes.html

[ubonjoe]

so whats the deal did they relax the enforcement of the rules without announcing it?

can i overstay 9 months and just pay a fine at the end of it?

It's been that way for a long time. If you voluntarily go to immigration and pay the fine and get a 7 day extension no problem. Or at the airport when you leave all you have to do is pay the fine and leave.

Not recommended of course.

But if you get arrested it's a different story. Locked up until you come up with the money and have a plane ticket out. Plus they deport you which means you can't come back.

Edited November 4, 2008 by ubonjoe

[astral]

Astral,

I am not sure where you ever got the idea that overstaying is such a heinous crime??

Well, if you have been living here any length of time you will know that the immigration consider overstaying to be a terrible offence.................

Really???

I have 20+ years in LOS.

How about you???

[Jingthing]

He is eligible for social security at age 62.

You don't know that he is eligible. The eligibility is determined by having the minimum amount of work credits during your life. A person who for various reasons has not been in the workforce for enough years would not be eligible for any social security benefits, whatsoever. Edited November 4, 2008 by Jingthing

[ubonjoe]

He is eligible for social security at age 62.

You don't know that he is eligible. The eligibility is determined by having the minimum amount of work credits during your life. A person who for various reasons has not been in the workforce for enough years would not be eligible for any social security benefits, whatsoever.

BS

You are thinking of the wrong country.

[Jingthing]

He is eligible for social security at age 62.

You don't know that he is eligible. The eligibility is determined by having the minimum amount of work credits during your life. A person who for various reasons has not been in the workforce for enough years would not be eligible for any social security benefits, whatsoever.

BS

You are thinking of the wrong country.

USA.

The OP said he was American, correct?

TO BE ELIGIBLE FOR SOCIAL SECURITY BENEFITS AS

A WORKER YOU MUST BE:

age 62 or older, or disabled or blind; and

"insured" by having enough work credits.

For applications filed December 1, 1996 or later, you must either be a U.S. citizen or lawfully present alien in order to receive monthly Social Security benefits.

http://www.socialsecurity.gov/ssi/text-entitle-ussi.htm

What if I do not have enough credits?

If you do not have 40 credits, you cannot get Social Security retirement benefits based on your own work record, and your family cannot get family benefits based on your record. To be eligible for retirement benefits, you must continue working in Social Security covered employment, either full-time or part-time, until you have earned 40 credits.

If you are the spouse, ex-spouse, or dependent child of an insured worker with 40 credits, you do not have to have 40 credits of your own to get family benefits. Family benefits are based on the work record of the insured worker.

Most workers age 25 or older get annual statements from Social Security showing all of their past earnings on which they paid Social Security taxes. The statement also includes an estimate of the benefits you and your family will get when you retire. You can request a statement at any time, free of charge, to check your credits and estimated benefits. See Information about Requesting a Social Security Statement on the SSA web site.

Note: You may be eligible for survivor's benefits even if you or the insured worker who died don't have 40 credits. The number of credits needed depends on the age of the worker at the time of death.

http://www.massresources.org/pages.cfm?Con...p;DynamicID=781

Edited November 4, 2008 by Jingthing

[Lite Beer]

Really???

I have 20+ years in LOS.

How about you???

I have lived here for over 14 years but this thread isnt anything about how long any of us have been in the country now is it!! There is always someone on almost every thread that has to be bigger than everyone else, eh! Shame that someone this time has been chosen to become a moderator! Sad really!

This thread was always going to go this way. Falcon. Thanks for your input up to now but please read the forum rules. Especially rule 2.

Thank You. Time to close I think.