Fair Trade I Don't Think So

[ray23]

I would really like to know just exactly what the states gets in return for this?

It sure isn't on imports of Motorcycles since there is a 200% import tax on them.

Not exactly what I call fair.

USTR extends Thai GSP one more year

BANGKOK, Nov 6 (TNA) - The Office of the United States Trade Representative (USTR) has extended its Generalized System of Preferences (GSP) to Thailand for another year, a senior Thai commerce ministry official said Thursday.

Apiradi Tantraporn, director-general of Foreign Trade Department, said the GSP privileges offered to Thailand by the USTR were originally due to expire the end of next month. The GSP has now been extended for one more year and will expire on December 31, 2009.

Currently, about 3,400 Thai products are covered by GSP and exempted from tariffs when exported to the US, said Mrs. Apiradi. Most of the products are in the industrial sector, but some fall in the agricultural sector. They include jewellery and ornamental products, rubber products, electrical appliances, processed food, airconditioner parts, and integrated circuits.

Under the GSP programme, countries enjoying the privileges cannot export the goods and enjoy market share in the US over 50 per cent or having export value equivalent to US$135 million in 2008. If the export value of any particular goods exceeds the ceiling, the USTR will terminate the GSP on July 1 of the following year.

Thailand came third in exercising the GSP privileges during the first half of 2008 with total export value amounted about US$1.76 billion and market share of 11.53 per cent. (TNA)

[0Mix1up]

the ustr people

have importing businesses???

[spiderman2]

I never understand why the EU lets countries such as Thailand and China export their goods to us without tariff's when these same countries place huge tariff's on EU goods.

It shows these governments care about keeping job for their people and is a fantastic way to export much needed British manufacturing jobs which we so need at a time when they 3 industry's our economy is made up of are failing.

If believe our nations should started putting like for like tariffs on their goods theyd stop this practice, time for a slightly more even playing field.

[JetsetBkk]

I suppose it wouldn't have anything to do with these "Office of the United States Trade Representative" guys having to pop over to bkk regularly to check on the "merchandise quality"?

Nah, surely not.

[ray23]

Interesting thought at least someone is getting something that way

Amazing when you really look at it n jus fwe day ago Thai Business people were worried about Obama being a protectionist. Or were the really worrried abot an even playing field. Don't get me wrong I think some countries should get these kind of things. Laos for example but when you a country have manufactoring Chevy Vehicles, that's going a bit to far.

There may have been a time when Thailand needed the help but that is not the Thailand of today.

In six years here I have never purchased an American Product without an import tariff on it.

Should be interesting if they actually Tax US company's for what they manufactor and sale overseas. Heck they might just have to open some plants again. Sometimes I really wonder about my country the first world war our soldiers had to train wih sticks, they didn't have rifles for them. Hostory should tell yuo not to lose your skilled workers and train them to cook burgers, to shut down important manufactoring facilities.

Once we were a country that made things now we are shorter order cooks.

Oh well that's my rant for the month

[soundman]

Topic moved to business forum.

Moved.

[tijnebijn]

Interesting thought at least someone is getting something that way

Amazing when you really look at it n jus fwe day ago Thai Business people were worried about Obama being a protectionist. Or were the really worrried abot an even playing field. Don't get me wrong I think some countries should get these kind of things. Laos for example but when you a country have manufactoring Chevy Vehicles, that's going a bit to far.

There may have been a time when Thailand needed the help but that is not the Thailand of today.

In six years here I have never purchased an American Product without an import tariff on it.

Should be interesting if they actually Tax US company's for what they manufactor and sale overseas. Heck they might just have to open some plants again. Sometimes I really wonder about my country the first world war our soldiers had to train wih sticks, they didn't have rifles for them. Hostory should tell yuo not to lose your skilled workers and train them to cook burgers, to shut down important manufactoring facilities.

Once we were a country that made things now we are shorter order cooks.

Oh well that's my rant for the month .

AGREE WITH YOUR RANT

Edited November 8, 2008 by tijnebijn

[cocopops]

I would really like to know just exactly what the states gets in return for this?

Political influence.

[dotcom]

Bolstering a nacent democracy.

Congrats on your promotion soundman.

Yes a NAFTA style agreement would be good.

[ray23]

Interesting how thing come together from time to time. This article really has very little to do with the original question. But, it does have lots of answers in it about the topic

"By Shawn W Crispin

BANGKOK - Balloons popped, confetti fell and the assembled cheered the announcement that Barack Obama was officially elected the next president of the United States. The US Embassy sponsored event bid to highlight the resilience of US democracy, significantly at a time its erstwhile ally Thailand finds its own nominally democratic system in peril.

It is precisely in places like Thailand that Obama will need to repair once strong, now strained bilateral alliances and reaffirm the US's commitment to democracy and human rights in its foreign policy, both to restore America's flagging credibility as a force for democratic good and to forestall China's recent gains in the region, which have come by and large at the US's expense.

Outgoing President George W Bush's singular concentration on the "war on terror", of which Southeast Asia was the campaign's less militarized second front, came at a high cost to US credibility - including with its key strategic ally Thailand. Bangkok was a reluctant signatory to Bush's military campaigns, providing a small number of troops to the coalition of the willing in Iraq while allowing US warplanes access its U-Tapao air base during runs to and from Afghanistan.

Thailand also participated in the controversial covert dimensions of the campaign, where Thai intelligence agents worked hand-in-hand with their US counterparts at a joint counterterrorism center created in 2001. That entailed some less than democratic exercises, including the apprehension and hand-off without due process of law into US custody of at least one major terror suspect, Riduan Isamuddin, alias Hambali.

It also served as willing host to one of the Central Intelligence Agency's (CIA) secret prison sites, where terror suspects sent from third countries were detained and apparently tortured by Thailand-based US agents at a Thai military base. Thai officials have denied the claim, which was first reported in a Washington Post story and later reconfirmed by US officials and media amid the controversy that erupted over the CIA's use of water-boarding while interrogating terror suspects. (See US and Thailand: Allies in torture, Asia Times Online, January 25, 2008)

There are also unanswered questions about the US's role in southernmost Thailand, where a Muslim insurgency has raged since January 2004. The renewed conflict followed on reports that Hambali and other terror suspects had taken refuge in Thailand's southern hinterlands after being flushed out of Malaysia after an alleged terror plot against US interests was upended in Singapore, another key US strategic ally in the region.

Then, US officials were critical of Thailand's inability to manage its borders and some analysts believe that former premier Thaksin Shinawatra's 2003 "war on dark influences" campaign - which took a disproportionate human toll in the deep south - was at least partially a response to US pressure to rein in the crime-ridden and often lawless region.

The US has maintained throughout that the escalating conflict is an internal Thai affair and not a front in its war on terror campaign. Officials have consistently denied US military or intelligence officials have played any role in Thailand's often controversial counterinsurgency exercises, which have been hounded by reports of disappeared and tortured militant suspects by Thai police and military officials.

Abusive ally

Bush had his way with Thailand due largely to the two sides' long time strategic and economic engagement, where formal diplomatic relations date back over 175 years. US military support was instrumental in Thailand's defeat of China-backed communist guerillas during the Cold War and Bangkok's enduring wariness of Beijing's intentions - at least until recently - had kept Thailand firmly in the US's regional strategic orbit.

Thailand is also highly dependent on exports to the US for its economic growth. Rather than pushing for democratic progress in exchange for strategic and economic privilege, the Bush administration goaded regional countries - including Thailand - to cooperate with its counterterrorism policies in exchange for preferential bilateral free trade agreements.

While the Bush administration took strategic advantage of Thailand's hospitality, China simultaneously made new inroads through its "soft power" diplomacy, which emphasized bilateral trade and investment initiatives. That included a bilateral free-trade agreement where the US was unable to come to terms for a similar agreement. Beijing was able to leverage that economic goodwill to strategic ends culminating in the first ever bilateral naval exercises between Thailand and China in 2005. Thai military officials have also recently observed major Chinese military exercises and purchased major Chinese-made military hardware.

Thaksin's willingness to promote defense ties with China came at the US's direct strategic expense and many observers believe that's one reason Washington's reaction to the September 2006 military coup that ousted a democratically elected government was so muted. A small dollop of US military assistance was suspended after the coup and months later US and Thai troops held uninterrupted their annual Cobra Gold joint military exercises, the largest in Asia.

Many of the coup-makers were known US allies, including alleged masterminds and former CIA-trained spy chief Prasong Soonsiri and Privy Council president Prem Tinsulanonda. Prasong has openly accepted his role in the coup, while top royal advisor Prem has denied any involvement. While Thaksin has on numerous occasions visited China while in exile, he has failed to travel to the US, where he attended university.

Mixed US signals about its actual commitment to democracy promotion have arguably shored up Thailand's resurgent reactionary forces, including an emboldened and politically active military. The US has stood back studiously from Thailand's current political turmoil, where Thaksin's embattled supporters in government claim to uphold democracy while his military-backed detractors in the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) aim to overhaul Thai democracy through less elected and more appointed parliamentarians.

One government insider says that US ambassador Eric John has impressed on army commander General Anupong Paochinda that the US's soft response to the 2006 coup would be much firmer should the military launch another intervention to seize power and suspend democracy. That may or may not be true. PAD co-leader Sondhi Limthongkul, on the other hand, said in a recent interview that the US had long ago lost its legitimacy to preach to Thailand about democracy in light of its own recent democratic failings.

That sentiment underscores the perceptions that the Bush administration abused the large store of Thai goodwill towards the US. With Obama's election, hopes are high here that a more democratic-minded and less militaristic US will move quickly to restore principle to its foreign policy, shifting back towards a more genuine promotion of mutual interests.

To be sure, there are nascent regional concerns that the US will lurch towards more trade protectionism under Obama, likely implemented through tougher labor and environmental standards on the region's merchandise and other exports. But as US financial markets' collapse and US consumption is expected to substantially diminish, the time is ripe for the US to redefine its diplomacy towards the region. Even after eight years of Bush-led abuses, a fresh and genuine US commitment to democracy promotion would be a powerful comparative advantage in the region vis-a-vis authoritarian China.

One US diplomat noted aside that two democratically elected leaders, Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat and Bangkok governor Apirak Kosayothin, were both invited to Wednesday's US election gala, while ranking members of the Thai military were not in attendance, including top 2006 coup-maker General Sonthi Boonyaratklin, who apparently had requested but was denied an invitation. It's a symbolic gesture many gathered at the event, and this writer in particular, hope Obama will build on through policies and actions in the years ahead.

Shawn W Crispin is Asia Times Online's Southeast Asia Editor. He may be reached at swcrispin[at]atimes.com. "

[cclub75]

I would really like to know just exactly what the states gets in return for this?

The name explains everything : "The U.S. Generalized System of Preferences (GSP), a program designed to promote economic growth in the developing world, provides preferential duty-free entry for more than 4,650 products from 131 designated beneficiary countries and territories. The GSP program was instituted on Jan. 1, 1976,"

http://www.ustr.gov/Trade_Development/Pref...tion_Index.html

The US are using trade as a leverage for political influence.

It could be a good deal...

[eljeque]

The US exports money.

[cclub75]

The US exports money.

Very nicely put. And so true !

But we could add : unsound money.

Edited November 8, 2008 by cclub75

[MJP]

I would really like to know just exactly what the states gets in return for this?

It sure isn't on imports of Motorcycles since there is a 200% import tax on them.

Not exactly what I call fair.

USTR extends Thai GSP one more year

BANGKOK, Nov 6 (TNA) - The Office of the United States Trade Representative (USTR) has extended its Generalized System of Preferences (GSP) to Thailand for another year, a senior Thai commerce ministry official said Thursday.

Apiradi Tantraporn, director-general of Foreign Trade Department, said the GSP privileges offered to Thailand by the USTR were originally due to expire the end of next month. The GSP has now been extended for one more year and will expire on December 31, 2009.

Currently, about 3,400 Thai products are covered by GSP and exempted from tariffs when exported to the US, said Mrs. Apiradi. Most of the products are in the industrial sector, but some fall in the agricultural sector. They include jewellery and ornamental products, rubber products, electrical appliances, processed food, airconditioner parts, and integrated circuits.

Under the GSP programme, countries enjoying the privileges cannot export the goods and enjoy market share in the US over 50 per cent or having export value equivalent to US$135 million in 2008. If the export value of any particular goods exceeds the ceiling, the USTR will terminate the GSP on July 1 of the following year.

Thailand came third in exercising the GSP privileges during the first half of 2008 with total export value amounted about US$1.76 billion and market share of 11.53 per cent. (TNA)

Yes, protectionism,

95% tax on motorbikes, unless from Japan, will be 6% from there soon.

228% on cars under 2400cc, 265% over 2400cc

Thailand will be rumbled soon. Under Obama, the US will become more protectionist. During the boom years the West turned a blind eye to the Far East protectionism, but that's about to change.

Thailand, you have been put on notice.

[MJP]

I never understand why the EU lets countries such as Thailand and China export their goods to us without tariff's when these same countries place huge tariff's on EU goods.

It shows these governments care about keeping job for their people and is a fantastic way to export much needed British manufacturing jobs which we so need at a time when they 3 industry's our economy is made up of are failing.

If believe our nations should started putting like for like tariffs on their goods theyd stop this practice, time for a slightly more even playing field.

Right, I'm <deleted> sick of it. Screw 'em. It's about time the likes of Thailand played ball.

Thailand's a rich country. It may not have any distribution of that wealth, but it's loaded.

Look how effective Mandelson was as EU Trade Commissioner, <deleted> useless, now he's back as Lord Mandy and Business Secretary or some BS. Crooks the lot of 'em.

I'm in FULL RANT MODE on this one.

[Crash999]

I would really like to know just exactly what the states gets in return for this?

It sure isn't on imports of Motorcycles since there is a 200% import tax on them.

As cclub mentioned, this is a historical WTO initiative to promote development of smaller economies, though one can now argue that the 'Asian tigers' like Thailand no longer need the help. It's more of a political bargaining pin these days.

And there isn't any obligation for countries to reduce their import duties as a condition of GSP.

The high tax on autos started during the Asian financial crisis 10 years ago and never went away, despite recovery of the economy. There's now a strong vested interest in keeping it in place- after all, who in their right mind would buy a car this year knowing that next year it'll be half price.

[MJP]

I would really like to know just exactly what the states gets in return for this?

It sure isn't on imports of Motorcycles since there is a 200% import tax on them.

As cclub mentioned, this is a historical WTO initiative to promote development of smaller economies, though one can now argue that the 'Asian tigers' like Thailand no longer need the help. It's more of a political bargaining pin these days.

And there isn't any obligation for countries to reduce their import duties as a condition of GSP.

The high tax on autos started during the Asian financial crisis 10 years ago and never went away, despite recovery of the economy. There's now a strong vested interest in keeping it in place- after all, who in their right mind would buy a car this year knowing that next year it'll be half price.

Thanks for that information. The car tax thing makes sense now.

TBH, I'd rather see tax raised on imported and luxury goods than income. I'm talking about the UK now.

[groogthep]

Edited November 9, 2008 by groogthep

[Groongthep]

The US shrimping industry has been decimated by cheap imports of farm raised prawns from Thailand. There are very few independent shrimp boat owners left in the United States since the cheap imports were allowed to flood the US markets over 10 years ago. Small independent shimpers were often among the poorest of American small business owners and most did not survive after shrimp prices fell well below what was necessary to break even in the business. Ironically, the Thai shrimp farmers were not the winners in this deal either. Most were loaned money to start small unregulated shrimp farms that often caused severe ecological problems, by the huge Thai-Chinese owned food prcessing companies, in particular the extremely profitable firm Charoen Pokphand (CP) in exchange for CP to be the exclusive buyer of the shrimp. Charoen Pokphand made enormous profits after significantly marking up the price of the shrimp which they bought from the Thai farmers for next to nothing and then dumped them on the foreign (mostly US) market. When US shrimpers complained to trade representatives over the situation US Trade representatives filed complains in international courts and threatened to slap large tariffs on the cheap shrimp from Thaidand. Charoen Pokphand responded by telling the Thai shrimp farmers, who they were screwing, that it was the evil US who was trying to put them out of business by raising tariffs. What we saw in the Thai press were photos of Thai shrimp farmers who were organized by CP to picket in Bankok claiming on their picket signs that "US sucks Thai blood". When it was in fact the Thai fat cat agribusiness owners that were screwing both the poor American independed shrimpers and the Thai shrimp farmers.

Edited November 9, 2008 by Groongthep

[MJP]

The US shriping industry has been decimated by cheap imports of farm raised prawns from Thailand. There are very few independent shrimp boat owners left in the United States since the cheap imports were allowed to flood the US markets over 10 years ago. Small independent shimpers were often among the poorest of American small business owners and most did not survive after shrimp prices fell well below what was necessary to break even in the business. Ironically, the Thai shrimp farmers were not the winners in this deal either. Most were loaned money to start small unregulated shrimp farms that often caused severe ecological problems by the huge Thai-Chinese owned food prcessing companies, in particular the extremely profitable firm Charoen Pokphand (CP) in exchange for CP to be the exclusive buyer of the shrimp. Charoen Pokphand made huge profits after significantly marking up the price of the shrimp which they bought from the Thai farmers for next to nothing and then dumped them on the foreign (mostly US) market. When US shrimpers complained to trade representatives over the situation US Trade representatives filed complains in internation courts and threatened to slap large tariffs on the cheap shrimp from Thaidand. Charoen Pokphand responded by telling the Thai shrimp farmers ,who they were screwing, that it was the evil US who was trying to put them out of business by raising tariffs. What we saw in the Thai press were Thai shrimp farmers who were organized by CP to picket in Bankok claiming on their picket signs that "US sucks Thai blood". When it was in fact the Thai fat cat agribusiness owners that were screwing both the poor American independed shrimpers and the Thai shrimp farmers.

[dotcom]

I would really like to know just exactly what the states gets in return for this?

Cheap imports?

[MJP]

I would really like to know just exactly what the states gets in return for this?

Cheap imports?

True.

It's the West fault really for ignoring what's really important, a sufficiency economy. Should have been more Thai, but I fear it's a little late now.

[ray23]

Maybe But I can say I have been to Thai markets in the states LA to be exact and I can assure you there is nothing cheap about it all. I always thought there was import fees in involved apparently I wasn't just little bit wrong but a lot.

Go to a Thai resturant with four people and you will be lucky to walk wihtou a paying a hundred bucks.

But I have never seen anything that I would call a bargain with made in Thailand stamped on it China yes Thailand no.

But I may have missed the bargains who knows.

The political edge I will buy off on that, cheap imports no.

Thailand products are a legend unto themselves, don't think so go to Tesco to buy a TV they will tell you right up front to buy a Thai TV cause they are better then China or Korea's.

Now I have to admit they put My Chevy truck together pretty good at about the same price I would have paid in the states. But no heater nor an effective defroster. But they did install a rear window defoster so I so suppose I could drive backwards all the time.

Based on the way Thailand has been presented itself to the world for the past six months the great financial wizard the place to put your money, maybe this offer should be going the other way.

America can still compete with an even playing field, but that was gone a long time ago.

Yep American workers get paid more. They also show up in time on the days they are supposed to and meet qoutas. Don't leave for the rice harvest Ect.

I'm not bitter at Thailand I am bitter at my own country. Sharing is one thing giving away what yorr own people need is a different thing all together.

[Groongthep]

Maybe But I can say I have been to Thai markets in the states LA to be exact and I can assure you there is nothing cheap about it all.

Forget the Thai markets, go into any mainsteam supermarket in the US and look in the frozen seafood section. More than half the frozen shrimp comes from Thailand the other half from Vietnam, China and some South American countries. A one pound bag of 30-40 count frozen shrimp from Thailand is about $8.50. Not long ago a pound of 30-40 count FRESH locally caught US shrimp was $14.00. Unless you go down to the oceanside and buy from the small shops by the docks it's hard to find any American shrimp at all any more. It can be argued that cheap imports are good for the consumer.....but at what cost. I guess if there is any upside to it, it is that the shrimp are no longer being over-fished and the shrimp stocks in the waters off the US coasts should be increasing.

[Crash999]

Maybe But I can say I have been to Thai markets in the states LA to be exact and I can assure you there is nothing cheap about it all.

Forget the Thai markets, go into any mainsteam supermarket in the US and look in the frozen seafood section. More than half the frozen shrimp comes from Thailand the other half from Vietnam, China and some South American countries. A one pound bag of 30-40 count frozen shrimp from Thailand is about $8.50. Not long ago a pound of 30-40 count FRESH locally caught US shrimp was $14.00. Unless you go down to the oceanside and buy from the small shops by the docks it's hard to find any American shrimp at all any more. It can be argued that cheap imports are good for the consumer.....but at what cost. I guess if there is any upside to it, it is that the shrimp are no longer being over-fished and the shrimp stocks in the waters off the US coasts should be increasing.

With your knowledge of the industry maybe you should change your name to goongthep!

That's the crux of the issue, isn't it? Is it better to have consumers paying $14 and keep the shrimp farmers employed or is it better to have consumers paying $8.50 and spend the balance somewhere else, though at the expense of shrimping jobs.

I'd say the ideal is somewhere in-between. Keep and protect long-term industries where the US is competitive or there's future potential for growth, and for the rest try to offer consumers the cheapest option possible.

[ray23]

I agree that is a heck of a buy, but did the Thai producer have to meet all the OSHA standards and all the other junk the producer in the states did? Did the Thai operation have to meet all the health standards as the other producer?

So I make things equal and they can compete evenly, that is fair.

So we gave the Thai producer a tax break and increased to cost on the other producer hardly sounds like level playing field to me.

What happens when the American can no longer pay $8.50 we are about to find out.

Business is business if you have the best price in town means very little if no one has the money to buy it.

So the system is out of balance. Not thailand's fault be pretty stupid not take a gift like that.

[MJP]

I agree that is a heck of a buy, but did the Thai producer have to meet all the OSHA standards and all the other junk the producer in the states did? Did the Thai operation have to meet all the health standards as the other producer?

So I make things equal and they can compete evenly, that is fair.

So we gave the Thai producer a tax break and increased to cost on the other producer hardly sounds like level playing field to me.

What happens when the American can no longer pay $8.50 we are about to find out.

Business is business if you have the best price in town means very little if no one has the money to buy it.

So the system is out of balance. Not thailand's fault be pretty stupid not take a gift like that.

We are about to find out as the snows of the Kondratieff Winter begin to settle. This trade imbalance was the perfect vicious circle.