War Versus Peace

[stoffel]

FACE-OFF

War versus peace

By Somroutai SapsomboonThe Nation

Published on November 20, 2008

War versus peace

Suriyasai : Jaturon

After Thaksin Shinawatra's announcement of his political comeback, The Nation's Somroutai Sapsomboon talks to - Suriyasai Katasila, a leader of the People's Alliance for Democracy, and Jatuporn Promphan, the party list MP of the People Power Party - over how they see the political conflict playing out.

Suriyasai : Jaturon

Here are their face-off comments.

1. How do you read the political situation after this?

Suriyasai : The political conflict will deepen and become more complicated. It will follow the rules and breach the rules at the same time. The violence will spread out to all parts. It will develop from a conflict of ideas... to a conflict of society without violence... to conflict and the use of force and weapons... until it becomes a fact of life.

At this point, both sides are ready to use force. Many people fear a civil war might break out. It all depends on Thaksin Shinawatra alone. Whether he wants war or peace.

If Thaksin wants peace, he will have to make a sacrifice. It's unfortunate for Thai society that the former leader won't make any sacrifices.

The method of Thaksin's sacrifice is that he must return home to honour the verdict against him. He must go to jail to face a two-year sentence. That is not too long. Nelson Mandela stayed in jail for 25 years and came out to fight for victory.

Thaksin likes to claim he is Nelson Mandela but he does not want to serve jail. If he serves jail, he will gain more than lose.

Jaturon : Insofar as the society does not have justice or fairness, there can't be peace. If there is oppression, there is resistance. After the coup in September 2006, Thaksin Shinawatra has been unfairly treated until now he has no way out. He has been pushed until he has hit the corner, so he has to fight back by declaring that he will return to politics.

2. Are you ready to confront or clash with your opponents? Do you want to avoid the violence?

Suriyasai : Our position is clear. We don't want violence of any kind. We have been rallying on civil disobedience. You can see that in the several incidents where we have backed off to avoid confrontation or clashes. We have held back rallies to avoid potential clashes with the Democratic Alliance against Dictatorship.

Our target is Thaksin Shinawatra, not the DAAD. But now the PAD is ready to move into the confrontational phase, if necessary. We do not want violence. It is something we do not want to see. It is not going to be a war of our making.

We'll probably be in a situation where we need to defend ourselves. If violence were to happen, it will happen around Government House because we are not going to move elsewhere.

I believe violence can take place from now on, because the court will hand down the verdict in the party dissolution case next month. They would like to put pressure on the judiciary.

Jaturon : Our position is that we would like to safeguard democratic principles. We would like to remove all adverse consequences that have arisen from the military coup. We will not be the defendants any more. We can't wait for the death sentence.

We have to fight back to restore justice. So far we have been unfairly treated. We won't bow again. If we can't live in peace or have justice, then we should not have peace . We will fight by every means to bring out justice in this country.

3. Do you want the military to come out and stage a coup?

Suriyasai : Before, we hoped the judiciary review would be enough to handle the political problem. But it has turned out that judiciary review is not enough. Thaksin does not have any respect for the judiciary. We had hoped to rely on the military. Is that wrong?

You may say that it is not right, but it is not totally wrong either. Now we don't know whom to turn to. We can't rely on the government because you can see they have done nothing about the violent incident on Oct 7.

The army should have done something to restore order. Actually, we want the military to join hands with the public in creating new politics. However, we know that is difficult because the armed forces' leadership has different views about this matter.

So what we expect from the military now is to prevent violence - or at least minimise any violence that could take place.

Jaturon : If there is another coup, our red shirt supporters will come out to fight against the military. Upon seeing the military or the tanks, the red shirt fights, though emptyhanded, [they] will surround them. The dictators can never win over the people.

There will be uprising throughout the country against the coup. Today we have enough force and supporters.

4. What is the worst case scenario?

Suriyasai : We might see a civil war. We would like Thai people to help stem the civil war. We can do this by booting out the government. The longer the government stays, Thaksin will use his power through it. The new government must not serve as a nominee for Thaksin.

Jaturon : I believe the chance will be slim for both sides to clash;[but] the violence will take place in the event of a military coup. There will be supporters and opponents of the coup and they will go against each other.

Now the majority voice of the country is coming out to claim their majority right, according to the principles of democracy.

[Guest Reimar]

I'll move this thread to the Thailand News Clippings

///MOVED

[old wanderer]

What a great article that clearly states the minds of the 2 factions.....

One of the more interesting quotes:

Jaturon : Our position is that we would like to safeguard democratic principles. We would like to remove all adverse consequences that have arisen from the military coup. We will not be the defendants any more. We can't wait for the death sentence.

We have to fight back to restore justice. So far we have been unfairly treated. We won't bow again. If we can't live in peace or have justice, then we should not have peace . We will fight by every means to bring out justice in this country.

Clearly an advocate for old style Thai politics, where votes are bought, judges are bribed, and nobody with money or connections gets punished for anything...

If this had come from the party not in power, it would be a little bit understandable, but coming from the PPP with Thaskins brother-in-law as Prime Minister....

It appears that the judiciary will move to ban the PPP in the next few weeks, and he sees the hand writing on the wall.

[OlRedEyes]

It certainly looks like both sides have backed themselves into a corner, and there is no way out.

Doesn't look good.

Edited November 20, 2008 by OlRedEyes

[Plus]

What does Jatuporn want? What's his end game?

What exactly does he hope to achieve?

He has no legal options whatsoever.

[hammered]

It certainly looks like both sides have backed themselves into a corner, and there is no way out.

Doesn't look good.

That is where we are and in doing so they have split the country badly on regional lines and continue to up the stakes on this daily. It probably isnt helped by all the meglomaniacs, egomaniacs and general nutters on both sides.

Probably too much to hope for something coming out of the center that leaves all the loons isolated.

More war than peace is my guess.

[davehowden]

What a truly silly little country Thailand is.

No respect for law and order, drive on the wrong side of the road as you like, no lights, no helmet, no problem, NO BRAINS.

Totally corrupt from the top down, they are all the same, what's in it for me and stuff everyone else.

Well you can keep it, I'm off back to Blighty now all the "immigrants" are leaving.

[Scott]

Best of luck to you.

[sriracha john]

After Thaksin Shinawatra's announcement of his political comeback, The Nation's Somroutai Sapsomboon talks to - Suriyasai Katasila, a leader of the People's Alliance for Democracy, and Jatuporn Promphan, the party list MP of the People Power Party - over how they see the political conflict playing out.

Just for the sake of accuracy, the photo The Nation posted of Jatuporn Promphan, is not Jatuporn.

This is Jatuporn:

Jatuporn can be represented by yelling at university students for refusing to take TRT bribes...

Thai Rak Thai Party Deputy Spokesman Jatuporn Promphan, right, enters into a heated exchange with Ramkhamhaeng University student union leader Somchote Meechana at the Party’s headquarters yesterday. Somchote led a protest against what he termed political interference in the university’s affairs.

The Nation - Feb. 1, 2007

The one erroneously posted appears to be that of former Thai Rak Thai Party Leader Chaturon Chaisaeng (TRT Banned #2)

Edited November 20, 2008 by sriracha john

[Samuian]

Well, I "love" this part:

....Thaksin Shinawatra's announcement of his political comeback....

so far about "quitting" politics... Chavalit becomes a monk...to get rid of his bad karma...

but this hit's the ceiling with bitter irony:

Thaksin likes to claim he is Nelson Mandela....

How many nutters are around?

[Plus]

As a Nelson Mandela wannabe he is very welcome to spend 28 years in prison.

[jdinasia]

What a truly silly little country Thailand is.

No respect for law and order, drive on the wrong side of the road as you like, no lights, no helmet, no problem, NO BRAINS.

Totally corrupt from the top down, they are all the same, what's in it for me and stuff everyone else.

Well you can keep it, I'm off back to Blighty now all the "immigrants" are leaving.

Have a nice trip! I wonder how many Thais are thinking the same thing and planning a return to singburi?

[CuttySark]

Because of the possibility of a war in Thailand. I have decided to cancel my Phuket trip this year.

Edited November 20, 2008 by CuttySark

[johnwills]

Looks like its going to get interesting pretty dam_n quick, lets hope they can resolve this problem without having to resort to killing each other or us come to that.

Problem with Thailand is that no one will want to back down and lose face once they get started, it could be a first for Thailand, they may actually see sense before it gets out of hand, we shall see.

[hammered]

The bombs at GH are getting bigger. The more extreme fringe of the PPP are in the ascendancy and Thaksin is sounding a bit under stress. Sondhi has gone a bit nutty with his tampon black magic stuff. Sae Daeng and family and Panlop are having a right laugh and it all looks like its going to kick off big time. It takes me back to the old days in English football. Their crew and our crew.

[animatic]

Pretty much clear; the knives are out,

and unless there is a 'Ides Of March' scenario the merde will hit the fan very shortly.

PPP is on the ropes because Dr.T. is on the ropes.

And they WILL come out swinging, have much fear on that score.

Thing is if they go overboard attacking PAD at GH,

they may WELL bring out the army to restore peace.

Once they attack the army for, as they might see it, defending PAD, all bets are off.

One side says they will defend themselves, but not attack,

the other says they must attack if they don't get their way.

One talks a lot and is on defence, the other talks a lot and is on OFFENCE.

Which one is acting on their more altruistic impulses?

PPP whether 'their way' is legally done or not, they want what they want,

and believe they are aggreived; rightly or wrongly.

PAD is a thorn in their side, because it just won't shut up,

and too many people are listening and that is a danger to

true facist control freaks like Thaksin.

He has ALWAYS tried to control the negative press.

Cornered like rats on a sinking ship or in a burning house,

PPP will likely attack all around them, including themselves,

in an effort to gain the higher ground, only to find the ship sinks

or the building burns around them ... anyway.

As long as the extended Thaksin clan attempts to control Thai politics,

there will be trouble, whether civil skirmishes at least or larger scale battling.

No pretty little figurehead sisters or dotty uncles taking orders will solve this impass.

This is the crossroads we are at, who will rule who will control and in what style.

The style of vengefull meglomaniacs returned from personal Elbas,

is GREATLY to be feared.

[Kna]

Well, I "love" this part:

....Thaksin Shinawatra's announcement of his political comeback....

so far about "quitting" politics... Chavalit becomes a monk...to get rid of his bad karma...

but this hit's the ceiling with bitter irony:

Thaksin likes to claim he is Nelson Mandela....

How many nutters are around?

[sriracha john]

After Thaksin Shinawatra's announcement of his political comeback, The Nation's Somroutai Sapsomboon talks to - Suriyasai Katasila, a leader of the People's Alliance for Democracy, and Jatuporn Promphan, the party list MP of the People Power Party - over how they see the political conflict playing out.

Just for the sake of accuracy, the photo The Nation posted of Jatuporn Promphan, is not Jatuporn.

This is Jatuporn:

Jatuporn can be represented by yelling at university students for refusing to take TRT bribes...

Thai Rak Thai Party Deputy Spokesman Jatuporn Promphan, right, enters into a heated exchange with Ramkhamhaeng University student union leader Somchote Meechana at the Party’s headquarters yesterday. Somchote led a protest against what he termed political interference in the university’s affairs.

The Nation - Feb. 1, 2007

The one erroneously posted appears to be that of former Thai Rak Thai Party Leader Chaturon Chaisaeng (TRT Banned #2)

I notice The Nation has corrected their error and are now directly linking a correct photo of him

[mc2]

The one erroneously posted appears to be that of former Thai Rak Thai Party Leader Chaturon Chaisaeng (TRT Banned #2)

He looks like he is scheming up something .

[PeaceBlondie]

Congratulations to PAD and its leadership for its nearly consistent insistence on non-violence. Non violence often fails, but not a tenth as often as violence fails. The problem here is that, regardless of the underlying 'religion,' it appears that most Thai Buddhists believe in bloody self defense, individually, familialy, and nationally. As in India under Gandhi, once the nonviolent protests end (whether successfully or not), many will feel free to kill their own countrymen. May God or Buddha forbid.

[grandpops]

mc2 --- plus is not running for political office in Thailand, thus he is not an opponent.

huh? I wasnt talking about plus.

Opps .. pardon, SRJ --- but the same statement stands. Do some reading!

One can only laugh.

Me too MC me too. Perhaps you could point out that if they did some reading... of a dictionary! they could learn what a Democratically Elected Government means.

They could also point out to Mr Raving Tampax, that a PARTY is something he can form and an ELECTION is something he can CONTEST. The Democrats could also WIN and ELECTION if they got their act togther.

[animatic]

Chaturon Chaisaeng? Well let's just call him a "political animal"...

He is one of the best trained of any in Thaksin's governments

All but the disertation for a doctorat in economics; if the web is to be believed.

But he is banned and that's that for the time being.

And no amount of degrees in information retrieval and analysis,

can make some one act nice.

[jdinasia]

I see another one taking a long walk .......

I think Sae Daeng's stepped far over the line making today's announcement, Makes me edgy that he thinks he can do this with impunity!

[animatic]

Jatuporn can be represented by yelling at university students for refusing to take TRT bribes...

Thai Rak Thai Party Deputy Spokesman Jatuporn Promphan, right, enters into a heated exchange with Ramkhamhaeng University student union leader Somchote Meechana at the Party’s headquarters yesterday. Somchote led a protest against what he termed political interference in the university’s affairs.

The Nation - Feb. 1, 2007

So we would be referring to this charming fellow then?

He seems a shy, retiring sort, open to compromise and listening,

all points of view given due consideration.

( note to self: invent extreme irony sign to insert above.)

Edited November 20, 2008 by animatic

[animatic]

I see another one taking a long walk .......

I think Sae Daeng's stepped far over the line making today's announcement, Makes me edgy that he thinks he can do this with impunity!

Ah yes. HIM!

Controversial general warns PAD more will die on Sunday

Maj Gen Kattiya Sawasdiphol, a pro-Thaksin army officer....

"I would like to say that anyone wanting to join the rally should reserve a temple for his or her own funeral,"

Kattiya said. "Being united, you will be slain in group."

Interestingly his own daughter is regularly at PAD's government house site.

That doesn't seem to stop him wanting to blow it apart.

Maybe he thinks if she dies or is maimed it will teach her a lesson for defying him?

This smile on his face is scarier than most things you see in this life.

A call to detain a general relating to grenade attack

A clique of senators, known as Group of 40, on Thursday called for the detention of Army expert Maj General Kattiya Sawasdiphol on suspicion of involving in the grenade attack against the rally site of the People's Alliance for Democracy.

Edited November 20, 2008 by animatic

[sbk]

Unnecessarily inflammatory posts have been edited or removed as well as their responses. Incitement is also against forum rules, something to bear in mind when posting.

Lets do try to keep this civil, thanks.

[sunreader]

Well you can keep it, I'm off back to Blighty now all the "immigrants" are leaving.

-7c tonight, welcome back, remember to wear your stab vest if your coming to London and good luck trying to find a job. Remember to welcome home the war 'heros'.

"War! What is it good for? absolutely nothing say it again!"

Yeaaaaahhhh!

[CuttySark]

I have heard news that illegal weapon supplier has up their price by 20% almost overnight. Can I complain? Consumer watchdog, WHERE ARE YOU.

Edited November 21, 2008 by CuttySark

[Goyave]

[animatic]

Seems more like The Borg...