Free Seats For The Obese

[Old Croc]

Air Canada can't make obese people pay for an extra seat

21st November 2008, 13:15 WST

Air Canada, Canada's biggest airline, and other carriers can't charge disabled or obese people for an extra ticket when they need an additional seat or an attendant to accompany them.

The Supreme Court of Canada today refused to hear an appeal from the airline, upholding a Canadian Transportation Agency ruling, the first of its kind in the world, ordering carriers to charge all passengers the same fare and not make people pay extra when they need an additional seat for medical reasons.

Air Canada, its Jazz unit, and WestJet Airlines Ltd, the Canada's second-biggest carrier, failed to prove the policy would impose undue hardship on them, the transportation agency said in its ruling in January.

The agency estimated the change would cost Air Canada, which reported C$10.6 billion in revenue last year, C$7.3 million ($5.7 million) annually.

“This is unprecedented in the airline industry,” Richard Bartrem, WestJet's director of communications, said in a telephone interview.

“There's no other country, as far as we know, in the world that has implemented something like this.”

He said WestJet would comply with the ruling and is developing procedures to implement the policy by January 10, as the transportation agency ordered.

The ruling applies only to domestic flights and doesn't include the domestic portion of an international flight, Air Canada spokesman Peter Fitzpatrick said in an e-mail.

Employee TrainingAir Canada has also started to put together procedures, including determining who would be eligible and training employees, to have the program in place by the deadline, Fitzpatrick said.

He said Air Canada doesn't have a cost estimate for the program.

“Now, many people who could not previously travel will be able to do so,” Laurie Beachell, national coordinator at the Council of Canadians with Disabilities, said today in a telephone interview.

“We've leveled the playing field. People with disabilities aren't having to bear extra costs of travel.”

BLOOMBERG

TORONTO

[huggybear]

Air Canada can't make obese people pay for an extra seat

""We've leveled the playing field. People with disabilities aren't having to bear extra costs of travel."

BLOOMBERG

TORONTO

Disability..............o.k. if you have a pancreatic problem or something, o.k., but 90% of overweight people (myself included 5kilos over) are because we eat and drink too much and don't get enough exercise.

I think it's B.S when they charge me for overweight luggage and then a guy 30 kilos more than I steps up. Also, how about getting squished by some massive fat person. It should be like the carry on luggage frame that you have to measure your carry on in, they should have a seat out there and if you don't fit, you have to buy two.

[gunnyd]

Agreed, you have to be pretty large to need 2 economy seats. I have been as much as 136KG (300 Lbs) and not had a problem fitting into economy. If you are that big you should have to buy a Business or at least an upgraded seat.

Me, I always fly business or first, but that's so I can sleep, and I am 6' 2" (200cm) and don't like being kneecapped.

As Shakespeare wrote "The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers"

[syd barrett]

If I get sitting next to an obese person in economy class, I ask them to move because they are squashing my shoulder and arm. If they are un-cooperative I make a point of vomitting all over them later in the flight. I find this works wonders.

[wileycoyote]

Syd....which airline do you fly most with ?

I only ask to avoid dry cleaning bills .

[hanno]

Agree: if you somebody is disabled, by all means let them occupy the seats they need. But the majority of really obese people are gluttons, not sick. PC rearing its ugly head again.

[Mosha]

Well I suppose there is nothing to say the seats have to next to one another. Many years back a UK airline had a policy of charging fat customers for the extra seat. I remember reading in the paper of one bloke whose seats were seperated by the aisle and several rows.

[geriatrickid]

The ruling applies to clinical obesity.

Translation: If you are a tub of goo from stuffing your craw at McD's you don't benefit.

The anticipated interpretation is that it will benefit those that present or book with a medical certificate or evidence of a medical reason.

Edited November 22, 2008 by geriatrickid

[torrenova]

Disability..............o.k. if you have a pancreatic problem or something, o.k., but 90% of overweight people (myself included 5kilos over) are because we eat and drink too much and don't get enough exercise.

I think it's B.S when they charge me for overweight luggage and then a guy 30 kilos more than I steps up. Also, how about getting squished by some massive fat person. It should be like the carry on luggage frame that you have to measure your carry on in, they should have a seat out there and if you don't fit, you have to buy two.

Could not agree more.

Years ago, flying BA from Tokyo to London, my wife and I were over the luggage allowance. I argued, successfully that as I was 80kg and my wife only 50kg, we had at least 30kg of extra and perhaps 70kg extra if two 100kg people were occupying the seats.

The cost for excess luggage is ridiculous at something like £25 a kilo, meaning that my one way 80kg seat should cost £2000 when in fact the return trip probably cost £500 at the time, meaning £250 each way. Also, luggage does not have to pay landing charges which people do and luggage does not need food or cabin attendants to take care of it.

I've refused to fly next to a really obese guy and asked them to either move me (no economy seats available), upgrade me (which they did) or take my baggage off the plane, causing them to miss their scheduled departure time and hit overrun costs.

I suspect that like clothes shops have size charts designed in the 1950's when people were smaller, airlines probably account that each passenger will be say 75kg when the reality is probably a much higher individual weight.

I don't really have a problem paying per kilo for your body as well as long as the average cost remains the same. I'm now 85kg and if I was a fat bugger then why shouldn't I pay more ?

[JerryO]

It's about time. because if the current policy of most airlines is "you pay for as many seats as you occupy", then what if a family of four small people was able to squeeze into only 3 seats. shouldn't they just pay for the space they need/occupy?

but how are they going to decide which travelers get the extra free seat ? are they going to humiliate peoplat at the airport checkin counter and say "hey you with the big fat ass, sit in this tester seat here so we can see if we have to give you another free seat" ; or are they going to have people get on a scale right there at the airport check in area?

i think the most fair way might be to have all passengers step inside some kind of chamber, that measures the volume and weight of all passengers, so a computer would determine whose ass was too big.

i applaud the canadian court ruling.

[torrenova]

I think South West Airlines in the states has a policy (or had) which stated that fat people had to pay for 2 seats but they were refunded one seat if the plane was not full.

Not a bad way of doing things I think.

Send a fat parcel from Bangkok to London and it costs a lot, send a small parcel and it is relatively cheap. People in this respect are like parcels. The bigger and heavier (including volumetric weight) you are, the more you should pay !

[Old Croc]

Years ago, flying BA from Tokyo to London, my wife and I were over the luggage allowance. I argued, successfully that as I was 80kg and my wife only 50kg, we had at least 30kg of extra and perhaps 70kg extra if two 100kg people were occupying the seats.

The cost for excess luggage is ridiculous at something like £25 a kilo, meaning that my one way 80kg seat should cost £2000 when in fact the return trip probably cost £500 at the time, meaning £250 each way. Also, luggage does not have to pay landing charges which people do and luggage does not need food or cabin attendants to take care of it.

I've refused to fly next to a really obese guy and asked them to either move me (no economy seats available), upgrade me (which they did) or take my baggage off the plane, causing them to miss their scheduled departure time and hit overrun costs.

You sound like the customer from hel_l for Airline check-in staff!

I can't believe they let you get away with not paying excess baggage based on your wifes body weight! What a can of worms that would create if everyone insisted on such a system.

As far as the upgrade away from the fat guy goes, I guess a bit of blackmail from the customer from hel_l can go a fair way.

I was once very happy to get upgraded to business (seat 1a) on a regional flight in Western Australia until I saw that a forklift was needed to board the passenger for 1b!! I spent the flight squashed against the window as this guy (who probably should have been featured in one of those American news shows where 20 firemen are needed to move the person to hospital) overflowed into my seat as well.

There were no other seats available for me to move to. It was about three hours of complete misery. I couldn't even contemplate having the business class meal as it would have been impossible to manipulate it.

It was a business trip so at least I didn't pay for it.

[Gary A]

Some of you may applaud this decision, BUT, if you ever are unfortunate enough to be seated on a full flight between two obese people, you will quickly see that your flight will be VERY miserable. I cursed the fat people and the airline. Had I to do it over again, I would have refused the seat and gotten off the plane.

[toptuan]

And what does this thread have to do with Thailand travel?

I don't fly on Air Canada to or from Thailand, because no one can. So I'm not worried...why are you?

Edited November 23, 2008 by toptuan

[Kerryd]

And what does this thread have to do with Thailand travel?

I don't fly on Air Canada to or from Thailand, because no one can. So I'm not worried...why are you?

For one thing, it sets a precedent. Now people in other countries can point to this ruling and demand equal treatment from their airlines.

All it takes is one to start it. Just like the smoking ban. One airline started it, and now they all do it. I'm not positive, but it may have been a Canadian airline there as well. I recall Canada banning smoking on domestic flights (similar to this obesity ruling which, currently, only applies to domestic travel).

Then they tried to apply the ban to any international flight that originated from Canada, or terminated in Canada, or even transited through Canada. Some air carriers countered with a plan to re-route their flights through the states instead, so Canada backed down, for awhile.

And now as we know, I don't think there is an international airline left any where that allows smoking on board.

I agree with the idea that a person should have to present certification that their obesity is due to a medical condition in order to qualify. I don't think I've ever met anyone that was actually suffering from a glandular problem (I knew one that claimed that, though she had never be diagnosed by a doctor. She was also extremely lazy and ate like an elephant. But according to her, her obesity was glandular, and she used that as an excuse every where she went).

The only problem with having to present medical certification, is that doctors these days seem to hand out these things like lollipops. Just like they are handing out more and more prescriptions for "medical marijuana". Walk into a doctor's office complaining of a pain. Tell him smoking pot eases the pain and "poof" you now have a certificate allowing you to grow and smoke pot.

I think it's only a matter of time before this obesity ruling starts being applied to International Flights (in Canada at least), and not long after before many other (Western Airlines) start having to do the same, just like what happened with smoking.

[dingdongrb]

I think that they should make the seats fit comfortably for the average height and weight of a human... If they make if painful for larger folks then perhaps larger folks would pay more to occupy more space.

I love it when sitting on a plane waiting for everyone to board and be seated when one of the fat passengers ask the attendant for the seat belt extension... For Pete's sake those belts will fit a small hippo and then to ask for an extension......

Back to OldCroc's post, it reminds me about an article I read a few years back about the obesity problem in the USA and how the health and rescue system is breaking down. I literally mean 'breaking down' where the size of hospital beds, ambulance gurneys, operating tables, wheelchairs, etc. are not big enough to support the majority of the population these days due to obesity.......

......And in the USA the firemen would transport the fat sick dude to the hospital with a large bill I'm sure. For Aussies, maybe just let him lie and chuck a few more roos on the barbie??????

Then of course there's another reason I married a Thai rather than hooking up with one of those farang gals....

[Old Croc]

And what does this thread have to do with Thailand travel?

I don't fly on Air Canada to or from Thailand, because no one can. So I'm not worried...why are you?

Thanks KerryD for giving the obvious reply to the same tired old bleat about relevance.

Some people just don't get it.