So Why Is This Allowed To Continue

[Crushdepth]

So we perhaps ought to ask ourselves why is this allowed to continue - Qui Bono?

You may as well ask why is Thaksin still free and allowed to stir up trouble. That's the root cause and it will stop when he is stopped.

[rixalex]

OK, only Thaksin buys votes and PAD is not controlled by the Army and the Democrats and other important institutions.

You win!

It appears you didn't read a word of what i said. Forget it. Go back to your laughing.

[Choscura]

I don't have the energy to go through point by point your naive and simplistic post, which suggests you very rarely open a newspaper beyond the sports pages or read the news section of Thaivisa, but please, oh please, explain this particular Toxin-credited project:

"Or how about the time that Thaksin audited all the foreign 'companies' that were being created and then ignored to allow old money-bags farangs to live with their (generally) prostitute (usually) isarn girlfriends."

I'm sure all the "old money-bags farangs" and even young, non-loaded farangs with Isaan girlfriends are dying for an answer.

Just as well I'm skint and married, or I may have been up-in-arms about your stereotyping skills.

I'm sorry, but as soon as I saw that your post was from kon kaen I was laughing too hard to really pay attention.

[plachon]

I don't have the energy to go through point by point your naive and simplistic post, which suggests you very rarely open a newspaper beyond the sports pages or read the news section of Thaivisa, but please, oh please, explain this particular Toxin-credited project:

"Or how about the time that Thaksin audited all the foreign 'companies' that were being created and then ignored to allow old money-bags farangs to live with their (generally) prostitute (usually) isarn girlfriends."

I'm sure all the "old money-bags farangs" and even young, non-loaded farangs with Isaan girlfriends are dying for an answer.

Just as well I'm skint and married, or I may have been up-in-arms about your stereotyping skills.

I'm sorry, but as soon as I saw that your post was from kon kaen I was laughing too hard to really pay attention.

Ah, Attention Deficit Disorder on top of superficial analysis ability. What does the location of my post have to do with anything pray tell?

Oh well, nevermind.

[Monroe]

The real problem here is checks and balances. That is, the executive branch of Thailand is essentially powerless against the military. In a democratic society, a party elected into power is effectively the will of the majority. So, by disregarding the PPP, the army acts in its own interests rather than serving the people.

This would definitely bring about problems if it's not amended.

What the PAD is doing right now is not so much childish (as stated above), but criminal, and it needs to be stopped. There is nothing particularly wrong with a peaceful protest, but this isn't one of them.

Also: I couldn't find this on the site, so I'll post it here.

Maverick Thai general reassigned to 'dance' duty

Nov 21, 2008

BANGKOK (AFP) — A Thai general who warned anti-government activists to book their own funerals ahead of a rally this weekend hit out at his bosses Friday after saying he had been moved to a role teaching aerobics.

Major General Khatiya Sawadiphol, an adviser to the Thai army, has courted controversy with a string of comments against demonstrators who have occupied the prime minister's offices in Bangkok.

An army spokesman said that Khatiya, who has written books about his combat exploits, had been appointed by army chief General Anupong Paojinda to lead the military's health club promotion task force.

Khatiya, who is under investigation on disciplinary charges, told newspapers that his new posting was "ridiculous".

"The army chief wants me to be a presenter leading aerobic dancers. I have prepared one dance. It's called the throwing-a-hand-grenade dance," the Bangkok Post quoted Khatiya as saying.

The army, however, denied the general's assertion.

"The working group is to find a way for army staff and families to exercise. It does not mean, as Khatiya sarcastically told reporters, that he will lead aerobic dances in the marketplace," Lieutenant Colonel Sirichan Ngathong told AFP.

The group leading the protests, the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD), have called for a blockade of parliament on Sunday after one of its members was killed and 29 were wounded in a grenade attack on Thursday.

Khatiya reportedly warned them to book Buddhist temples for their funerals if they went ahead. "Bullets will be fired from all sides into Government House so please get out," he was quoted as saying in Matichon newspaper.

In October, Khatiya warned that PAD activists squatting at the prime minister's office would face more attacks in future -- a prediction which was borne out.

He has also openly trained so-called "warriors" to counter PAD activists guarding the anti-government sit-in.

The PAD accuses the government of being a puppet for ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra. Clashes between the PAD and the police on October 7 left two people dead and more than 500 injured.

[womble]

I can think of only one family capable of funding this with the connections needed to get things done and make certain high power individuals stand down from doing their jobs.

Usually if you follow the money/power trail you get to the answer. Think about it !

Actually I could probably come up with over a dozen families capable of funding these hijinks, some older high Sakdina families, some slightly more recent arrivals who happen to have lucrative monopolies, and a few families that own major banks. There are certainly enough families to create two competing factions, and I doubt any one single family or clan is in complete control of any one faction.

I just don't see anyone benefiting from this spectacle in the long term, but then again, Thailand has always been the land of short time and shortsightedness.

The thing is these powerful families who's fortunes have been made and continue to be made thrive on monopolies. To them a closed country is best, they do not want competition from foriegn companies, they also do not need to go multinational, they make enough off the Thai people. To them putting off FDI and/or tourism makes no difference, infact it helps them maintain their monopolies.

That is one reason for siezing the airport, they don't care about the countries image as they can survive quite nicely off the thai population.

[womble]

The real problem here is checks and balances. That is, the executive branch of Thailand is essentially powerless against the military. In a democratic society, a party elected into power is effectively the will of the majority. So, by disregarding the PPP, the army acts in its own interests rather than serving the people.

This would definitely bring about problems if it's not amended.

What the PAD is doing right now is not so much childish (as stated above), but criminal, and it needs to be stopped. There is nothing particularly wrong with a peaceful protest, but this isn't one of them.

Also: I couldn't find this on the site, so I'll post it here.

Maverick Thai general reassigned to 'dance' duty

Nov 21, 2008

BANGKOK (AFP) — A Thai general who warned anti-government activists to book their own funerals ahead of a rally this weekend hit out at his bosses Friday after saying he had been moved to a role teaching aerobics.

Major General Khatiya Sawadiphol, an adviser to the Thai army, has courted controversy with a string of comments against demonstrators who have occupied the prime minister's offices in Bangkok.

An army spokesman said that Khatiya, who has written books about his combat exploits, had been appointed by army chief General Anupong Paojinda to lead the military's health club promotion task force.

Khatiya, who is under investigation on disciplinary charges, told newspapers that his new posting was "ridiculous".

"The army chief wants me to be a presenter leading aerobic dancers. I have prepared one dance. It's called the throwing-a-hand-grenade dance," the Bangkok Post quoted Khatiya as saying.

The army, however, denied the general's assertion.

"The working group is to find a way for army staff and families to exercise. It does not mean, as Khatiya sarcastically told reporters, that he will lead aerobic dances in the marketplace," Lieutenant Colonel Sirichan Ngathong told AFP.

The group leading the protests, the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD), have called for a blockade of parliament on Sunday after one of its members was killed and 29 were wounded in a grenade attack on Thursday.

Khatiya reportedly warned them to book Buddhist temples for their funerals if they went ahead. "Bullets will be fired from all sides into Government House so please get out," he was quoted as saying in Matichon newspaper.

In October, Khatiya warned that PAD activists squatting at the prime minister's office would face more attacks in future -- a prediction which was borne out.

He has also openly trained so-called "warriors" to counter PAD activists guarding the anti-government sit-in.

The PAD accuses the government of being a puppet for ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra. Clashes between the PAD and the police on October 7 left two people dead and more than 500 injured.

This guy sounds like a bit of a loose cannon. That's an extremely amusing inactive post for Anupong to move him to..........

[jdinasia]

I can think of only one family capable of funding this with the connections needed to get things done and make certain high power individuals stand down from doing their jobs.

Usually if you follow the money/power trail you get to the answer. Think about it !

Actually I could probably come up with over a dozen families capable of funding these hijinks, some older high Sakdina families, some slightly more recent arrivals who happen to have lucrative monopolies, and a few families that own major banks. There are certainly enough families to create two competing factions, and I doubt any one single family or clan is in complete control of any one faction.

I just don't see anyone benefiting from this spectacle in the long term, but then again, Thailand has always been the land of short time and shortsightedness.

"high sakdina?" ... oh you mean "High naa" ----if you are gonna toss around terms like sakdina you should know that THAT outdated caste system included everyone.... but really .. tossing that silliness around these days .... geeze!

[Johpa]

The thing is these powerful families who's fortunes have been made and continue to be made thrive on monopolies. To them a closed country is best, they do not want competition from foriegn companies, they also do not need to go multinational, they make enough off the Thai people. To them putting off FDI and/or tourism makes no difference, infact it helps them maintain their monopolies.

That is one reason for seizing the airport, they don't care about the countries image as they can survive quite nicely off the thai population.

I wholeheartedly agree that the only people who could possibly benefit (answering cui bono) from this chaos are those who have monopolies and who thus have the cash reserves to survive and who will also have the immediate return of positive cash flows once the chaos ends.

[Johpa]

"high sakdina?" ... oh you mean "High naa" ----if you are gonna toss around terms like sakdina you should know that THAT outdated caste system included everyone.... but really .. tossing that silliness around these days .... geeze!

And I am surprised you do not see the continued relevancy of the Sakdina system in modern Thailand. The system has lost much of its meaning when dealing with relationships amongst the lower and middle classes, most of whom would have been slaves 150 years ago, but at the upper echelons of Thai society the system still has, in my humble opinion, descriptive value. Certainly in the villages one hears to this day the powerful being addressed as cao nais. And in our current situation, it clearly and distinctly refers to a large group of powerful actors in this drama who share common interests, but not all of whom may be siding with a single political party.

[FarangFatal]

One reason.... this is part of the bin Laden scheem to rule the world!

[Rinrada]

I can think of only one family capable of funding this with the connections needed to get things done and make certain high power individuals stand down from doing their jobs.

Usually if you follow the money/power trail you get to the answer. Think about it !

Actually I could probably come up with over a dozen families capable of funding these hijinks, some older high Sakdina families, some slightly more recent arrivals who happen to have lucrative monopolies, and a few families that own major banks. There are certainly enough families to create two competing factions, and I doubt any one single family or clan is in complete control of any one faction.

I just don't see anyone benefiting from this spectacle in the long term, but then again, Thailand has always been the land of short time and shortsightedness.

The thing is these powerful families who's fortunes have been made and continue to be made thrive on monopolies. To them a closed country is best, they do not want competition from foriegn companies, they also do not need to go multinational, they make enough off the Thai people. To them putting off FDI and/or tourism makes no difference, infact it helps them maintain their monopolies.

That is one reason for siezing the airport, they don't care about the countries image as they can survive quite nicely off the thai population.

and to expect poor Thai people to even consider benefitting from things like a Health Service,decent education ,social services,living wages and .... 'quel horrour' they might even VOTE the wrong way during a Democratic Election... ...

Cant have hat..can we ...call out the PADis and the Secret bankers ..........still living in feudal Times..... ..right

[LooseCannon]

The amount of verbal tripe that has appeared in hundreds(thousands?) of posts concerning PAD/PPP/Thaksin etc. in the last few months, & particularly over the last few days, is truly a testament to the collective ignorance & stupidity of the vast majority of the people who have posted on this subject.

Blinkered, opinionated blowhards spouting complete nonsense about things that they don't understand. If you want to learn about the Thai political system & the way this country works you will not find it on this website. If you want to understand what is happening today in Thailand you have to go looking elsewhere, there's information out there, some free & some you have to pay for.

Unfortunately for some this information may not be readily accessible, but I am sure if anyone is truly interested they will make the effort to find it. I am confident that the ignorant & lazy will continue to post the same old rubbish & the ones that do the research will not be bothered to post at all.

To the OP - Why? - excellent question, but you will not find the answer here.

The complex web of changing alliances & the Machiavellian nature of Thai politics makes it unknowable unless you are intimately involved, but it is possible to understand.

[sutnyod]

Has there ever been a Thai government that wasn't corrupt?

I don't remember the PAD protesting against the corrupt governments that were run by their sponsors.

Taking the question further: are there any calculations on what a corrupt government costs the country? Let's say over a period of 1 year? Compare to what the country loses in 1 week of airport closure?

[englishoak]

I'll say it again there are very few individuals or collectives able to have the massive funds needed. The important VIP contacts and influence ( which is almost total and very obvious )over those very leaders of society to stop them doing their supposed jobs.

If you follow the money/power trail you will come to the obvious conclusion.

I've had my previous two posts deleted although I have been very careful not to break the forum rules. It seems to me that these rules are open to misinterpretation, sorry ! or certain moderators are becoming over zealous or extending that to include anything they percieve to be not towing the line. Well lets see if this post offends because I fail to see how.

It saddens me that in this time of political unrest that obvoius opinions and conclusions are, even when made carefully tactfully and in my last post very generalistic, deleted.

Be careful Thaivisa you are getting a reputation of becoming increasingly censored. At what point does it become a puppet site only allowing posts that please the (ahem ! )moderators ? Who it seems are becoming more sensitive as this crisis continues. Is there something we should know ? mabe you would like to review your forum rules and ammend them. I will try as always to keep on the right side.

[Mosha]

I predict on the 5th someone will tell them enough is enough.

[Monroe]

verbal tripe...will not find the answer here.

So, by this, would I be correct in assuming that you do have the answer to the topic? Please substantiate.

In an earlier post, I proposed that checks and balances were awry in Thai politics (though I received no feedback).

Acting holier-than-thou is unproductive in discourse.

[LooseCannon]

verbal tripe...will not find the answer here.

So, by this, would I be correct in assuming that you do have the answer to the topic? Please substantiate.

In an earlier post, I proposed that checks and balances were awry in Thai politics (though I received no feedback).

Acting holier-than-thou is unproductive in discourse.

Yes - I do have an answer,whether it is correct or not is another matter, in reality it is only an informed opinion.It is an opinion that has been reached after reading a number of documents, articles etc that are not available on this website.

As I said previousely, you will not get an informed opinion on this website - look elsewhere.

Feel free to ignore my suggestion if it suits you.

[Geekfreaklover]

verbal tripe...will not find the answer here.

So, by this, would I be correct in assuming that you do have the answer to the topic? Please substantiate.

In an earlier post, I proposed that checks and balances were awry in Thai politics (though I received no feedback).

Acting holier-than-thou is unproductive in discourse.

Yes - I do have an answer,whether it is correct or not is another matter, in reality it is only an informed opinion.It is an opinion that has been reached after reading a number of documents, articles etc that are not available on this website.

As I said previousely, you will not get an informed opinion on this website - look elsewhere.

Feel free to ignore my suggestion if it suits you.

Oh go on - give us a clue???

[LomSak27]

One has to be vague sometimes in order to say within the law. However, I don't understand why you are so sure that the Democrats are not involved with PAD. Do you think the same about the Army?

Gee this is getting difficult isn't it. That incident at the Mosque down south couple years back, remember the one where they packed and stacked and 70 or so protesters didn't make it ! This is how dissent is usually delt with. If the roles were reveresed and a bunch of uneducated up country locals occupied (TRT or PPP) goverment house and the airport this is what the response would be and in less than 24 hours.

SO WHAT IS DIFFERENT ... EXPATS HELP ME HERE I'M SEARCHING

Sorry guess I can't say ........... hint hint hint

Ok we will try again this what a journalist printed a couple days back good quote and YOUR LAST CLUE

For the weekend in Pattaya and the years supply of free Leo ........

"Covering this crisis is like trying to explain the unexplainable, without mentioning the unmentionable."

[englishoak]

"Covering this crisis is like trying to explain the unexplainable, without mentioning the unmentionable."

exactly

[Johpa]

Yes - I do have an answer,whether it is correct or not is another matter, in reality it is only an informed opinion.It is an opinion that has been reached after reading a number of documents, articles etc that are not available on this website.

As I said previously, you will not get an informed opinion on this website - look elsewhere.

Feel free to ignore my suggestion if it suits you.

I would ignore you for your arrogance alone.

That being said, there is indeed a great deal of noise here, but less so on this particular thread than in the threads in the news forum, but one can glean some useful insights and read some valid opinions. One can also visit Bangkok Pundit or New Mandala for less noisome speculation, but it is all equally just as speculative. Those who claim they "know" don't and so we are left to glean from the speculations of informed others as well as from our own personal experience, flawed as that might be.

As for censorship, the forum rules clearly state, and understandably so, that direct references to the Royal Family will not be tolerated. Yet I have found that creativity is not being discouraged and is tolerated.

[LooseCannon]

I would ignore you for your arrogance alone.

That being said, there is indeed a great deal of noise here, but less so on this particular thread than in the threads in the news forum, but one can glean some useful insights and read some valid opinions. One can also visit Bangkok Pundit or New Mandala for less noisome speculation, but it is all equally just as speculative. Those who claim they "know" don't and so we are left to glean from the speculations of informed others as well as from our own personal experience, flawed as that might be.

As for censorship, the forum rules clearly state, and understandably so, that direct references to the Royal Family will not be tolerated. Yet I have found that creativity is not being discouraged and is tolerated.

If you have read anything on either of these websites you should realize that any meaningful discussion of the current political crisis is not possible on TV, despite being 'creative'.

These 2 sites are only the first step & provide enough information to point readers in the right direction for a more a comprehensive discussion & analysis of Thai politics, but like a lot of things in life you will have to pay for some of it. Hopefully, if only a small percentage of readers are inspired to do some follow up research, a small part of the ignorance so prevalent on this website will be dispelled.

[LooseCannon]

Oh go on - give us a clue???

No - you will have to learn to think for yourself.