So Why Is This Allowed To Continue

[GuestHouse]

The Political Debacle has been going on a tad too long now, the economy is being hit, the reputation of the nation is being hit and as things progress matters are only becoming worse.

So we perhaps ought to ask ourselves why is this allowed to continue - Qui Bono?

[Scott]

I think the question is 'why wasn't it nipped in the bud.' Just like children, unless you stop them from misbehaving early on, their behavior will only get worse.

The mistake that was made, was made a long time ago.

[thaihome]

For many of the grass roots PAD supporters this is about the future of the country. It is extremely complex and made even more so as many aspects of the issues cannot be openly discussed.

To call them children is the height of western arrogance and has racist overtones going back to colonial era.

TH.

[londonthai]

police and army in thailand are forces independent of the government - they are in fact the leading forces in politics, economy, media and they do corrupt all those areas.

unless there is a split within them, to play each group against each other, there is no chance for any change.

Time works for the government, as financial and protesters support for the PAD slowly dries out.

the economy and the rest of social issues do suffer, but it's better than a civil war and bloodshed, this time not in hundreds or thousands

[bravingbangkok]

The fact that the Army has never intervened on the PPP's behalf suggests to me that this is only going to end in one way...and that is a PAD victory and resignation of the PM.

Personally I could not give a shit what happens, they are both the same and probably both as bad as eachother but both do have their good points. I just want it to end quick.

Edited November 28, 2008 by bravingbangkok

[rixalex]

I think the question is 'why wasn't it nipped in the bud.' Just like children, unless you stop them from misbehaving early on, their behavior will only get worse.

By misbehaving, i take it you mean protesting against a corrupt government? Nothing childish about that, that i can see. I guess though if you're a supporter of said corrupt government, i can understand you thinking that way.

[APMann]

For many of the grass roots PAD supporters this is about the future of the country. It is extremely complex and made even more so as many aspects of the issues cannot be openly discussed.

To call them children is the height of western arrogance and has racist overtones going back to colonial era.

TH.

Their lack of education and critical awareness makes them naive and easily manipulated by both sides. Shame really.

[mommysboy]

I think the question is 'why wasn't it nipped in the bud.' Just like children, unless you stop them from misbehaving early on, their behavior will only get worse.

By misbehaving, i take it you mean protesting against a corrupt government? Nothing childish about that, that i can see. I guess though if you're a supporter of said corrupt government, i can understand you thinking that way.

It's nnot about taking sides. The Govt may be weak and indeed corrupt but at least it submits itself to elections and to some notion of democracy, can the same be said of PAD ?

OP, it's a Mexican stand off. PM can't push the army too far, yet the army can't be seen to be staging a coup- even though many think that is was is happening in effect.

[rixalex]

I think the question is 'why wasn't it nipped in the bud.' Just like children, unless you stop them from misbehaving early on, their behavior will only get worse.

By misbehaving, i take it you mean protesting against a corrupt government? Nothing childish about that, that i can see. I guess though if you're a supporter of said corrupt government, i can understand you thinking that way.

It's nnot about taking sides.

By describing the PAD as children whose actions needed to be nipped in the bud (as Scott did), it's clear that a side has been taken.

[sabaijai]

IMO there isn't any one party benefiting more than the any other party, or 'allowing' the situation to happen. It's a stalemate between various powers. There is no deus ex machina solution for this one.

[JimmyTheMook]

For many of the grass roots PAD supporters this is about the future of the country. It is extremely complex and made even more so as many aspects of the issues cannot be openly discussed.

To call them children is the height of western arrogance and has racist overtones going back to colonial era.

TH.

Their lack of education and critical awareness makes them naive and easily manipulated by both sides. Shame really.

100% correct , you don't strangle your own countries economy to try and make a point

Only Thais could possibly see the reason in such an action and or do nothing to prevent it.

[Geekfreaklover]

They (PAD) really haven't showered themselves in glory. It's a shame, as I thought some of their issues were worth airing. Now they have negative press, minority national support. Even smaller international sympathy. Not the way to get things done chaps.

[Johpa]

IMO there isb't any one party benefiting more than the any other party, or 'allowing' the situation to happen. It's a stalemate between various powers. There is no deus ex machina solution for this one.

It is by its very nature a stalemate anticipating and positioning for the checkmate.

[wamberal]

By describing the PAD as children whose actions needed to be nipped in the bud (as Scott did), it's clear that a side has been taken.

The behaviour of the PAD is anti-democratic, by any reasonable definition. There are two possible outcomes to the present situation: firstly, yet another military coup (a juvenile act by any reasonable democratic measure) or secondly, a democratically elected government steps down because it is no longer able to govern.

This is juvenile behaviour, by any definition.

The people who voted the current government into power are not stupid. Vote buying? It has been around for many years in Thailand. Corruption? Every elected government in Thailand has been corrupt to some extent.

If you behave like children, guess what, you are children.

If the PAD supporters want to do something good for Thailand, I would recommend that they start paying their income taxes in full, so that the government (of whatever stripe) has enough revenue to provide good public education.

[coxhoedave]

They (PAD) really haven't showered themselves in glory. It's a shame, as I thought some of their issues were worth airing. Now they have negative press, minority national support. Even smaller international sympathy. Not the way to get things done chaps.

Maybe they did have some issues worth airing but they are certainly not the answer to Thailand's problems. According to the CBN website

"The PAD advocate the scrapping of the one-man-one-vote system in Thailand and say only 30 per cent of parliament's members should be directly elected by the people. The remaining 70 per cent should be chosen from various occupations and professions and be appointed".

Hardly the stuff to impress the free world.

[sabaijai]

What will happen today?

By Tulsathit Taptim

The Nation

The danger of writing the following is that the whole piece can look very silly after two hours. Thailand's political situation is not dictated by just one or two men, and as I'm typing this (Friday, 11 am), coup rumours are still coming from left, right and centre. The only thing we know is the three key players _ the People's Alliance for Democracy, Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat and Army chief Anupong Paochinda _ are playing the cards as they come at them and none of trio can predict what's going to happen next.

The PAD has said "All in". The political movement was dealt a bad hand (decreasing support, conflicts with former allies, nightly ambushes and so on) but all the chips had gone into the betting pot to provoke Anupong and Somchai into a final winner-takes-all showdown.

Meanwhile, Anupong "checked" (deciding not to bet now but with the option to call or raise later). He basically chose to sit on the fence for just a moment, hence the polite requests for Somchai to dissolve the House and the PAD to end its protests.

Somchai "called" the PAD's bluff. I will never fold, the prime minister told a nationwide audience in a TV address Wednesday night. Why should I? I'm holding a very good hand. Mine is a government elected by the people and for the people.

Good hand, yes, best one, no. And Somchai, while convinced that the PAD was holding weak cards, cannot be sure that Anupong was laughing inside and ready to pounce. This is why the prime minister only "called" (declaring a state of emergency) but did not "raise" (it was a very half-hearted, unusual state of emergency featuring peace negotiators and virtually leaving the Army out of the crucial operation).

Well, as a very poor amateurish poker player, that's as close as I can get to explaining the current situation. It appears to have come down to who blinks first between Somchai and Anupong, after a suicidal PAD threw in all its stakes and thus turned what should have been a normal round into one that will decide who goes home with all the money or empty-handed.

With the Suvarnabhumi Airport far more important than government House and having to be reopened as soon as possible, pressure is on Somchai and Anupong and it's interesting to see who will be the next guy to say "All in".

That, as far as Somchai is concerned, means a crackdown.

As for Anupong, it means the thing he has repeatedly said with his poker face that he would never do.

[Underdog]

I think the question is 'why wasn't it nipped in the bud.' Just like children, unless you stop them from misbehaving early on, their behavior will only get worse.

The mistake that was made, was made a long time ago.

Tend to agree, about 2540 years ago!

[Ulysses G.]

I think the question is 'why wasn't it nipped in the bud.' Just like children, unless you stop them from misbehaving early on, their behavior will only get worse.

By misbehaving, i take it you mean protesting against a corrupt government? Nothing childish about that, that i can see. I guess though if you're a supporter of said corrupt government, i can understand you thinking that way.

Has there ever been a Thai government that wasn't corrupt?

I don't remember the PAD protesting against the corrupt governments that were run by their sponsors.

[pete_r]

So we perhaps ought to ask ourselves why is this allowed to continue - Qui Bono?

Perhaps because the PAD has protection?

Edit: Remove font color.

Edited November 28, 2008 by pete_r

[lannarebirth]

So we perhaps ought to ask ourselves why is this allowed to continue - Qui Bono?

Perhaps because the PAD is protected?

Yes, that; and had to go on long enough where the proxies dropped their independant sham and invoke their true leader, Thaksin. Which they did today. Within a week it will be more than whispered who the true PAD leader is and the criminals will scurry back into their holes, where they'll plot their next treasonous adventure. One can only hope that one or more of the PPP and it's backers will slip on a banana peel soon.

[rixalex]

By describing the PAD as children whose actions needed to be nipped in the bud (as Scott did), it's clear that a side has been taken.

The behaviour of the PAD is anti-democratic, by any reasonable definition.

This is juvenile behaviour, by any definition.

Not any, just yours. Being anti-democratic could be described with many different words, but juvenile isn't one of them that springs to my mind.

[lannarebirth]

The short answer on why it is allowed to continue is, in Thailand everybody is dirty.

[rixalex]

I think the question is 'why wasn't it nipped in the bud.' Just like children, unless you stop them from misbehaving early on, their behavior will only get worse.

By misbehaving, i take it you mean protesting against a corrupt government? Nothing childish about that, that i can see. I guess though if you're a supporter of said corrupt government, i can understand you thinking that way.

Has there ever been a Thai government that wasn't corrupt?

I don't remember the PAD protesting against the corrupt governments that were run by their sponsors.

I agree with you. They should have, or whoever had enough power and influence to challenge in this way at that time should have. Every corrupt government deserves to be protested against. We can agree and disagree on the methods, but we surely agree on that principle. No?

[Ulysses G.]

Yes but legal protests.

[sabaijai]

Like the Boston Tea Party?

[BigSnake]

On the bright side we could be in MumBai India so let's all count our blessings for the moment.

[Maizefarmer]

The Political Debacle has been going on a tad too long now, the economy is being hit, the reputation of the nation is being hit and as things progress matters are only becoming worse.

So we perhaps ought to ask ourselves why is this allowed to continue - Qui Bono?

I think its called "freedom of expression" - that at least was what the government was trying to preserve when the protest kicked off months back.

That no resolution was found [earlier] has allowed the protest to grow to the size it now is. In the absence of a concensual solution, it now makes it all but impossible to stop - without, what in my opinion will be a conflict - a conflict that would make '76 and '92 look like a teaparty. What is not played out in media reporting (in relation its relivance) is that its many of the old gaurd from the '76 conflict who are involved in behind the scene PAD policy decisions. The PM will be all too aware of their presence in PAD - and of how willing they were to resort to violence last time round

He will be desperate desperate worried about that sort of outcome, and will surely prefer to stand-off for as long as possible. The question is: just for how much longer the status quo be maintained? Something will have to give. Lets hope its a consensual agreement.

[lannarebirth]

Yes but legal protests.

The kind they allow in China? Yeah, those are effective.

I actually am more supportive of the PAD now than before (at least the demonstrators). Gutsy.

[Ulysses G.]

The kind that don't hurt poor Thais in order to benefit the ultra-rich.

Edited November 28, 2008 by Ulysses G.

[rixalex]

Yes but legal protests.

As i said, people's opinion on how to protest will vary. I'm with you, it should be legal, but on the question of whether or not there should be protests against corrupt governments, surely we all agree? It seems judging from this thread, i'm wrong in this assumption.

Edited November 28, 2008 by rixalex