Suvarnabhumi PAD Protest Continues

[PeaceBlondie]

OK . . . where can I go on here and read the latest NEWS rather than all this back and forth, you are wrong, I am right rubbish flaming of each other?

Is there an area of this Forum that posts the actual latest real NEWS and DOESN'T allow all these comments so that I can keep up to date and form my OWN opinions, rather than having other people's rammed down my throat?

(Fingers crossed)

Tats

Tats, your best technique is to scan and find posts that are obviously news headings.

[tig28]

I think the real reason why the opposition hates Thaksin is because he fought corruption. Sondhi and Chamlong didn't get as many bribes anymore as before.

Thaksin fought corruption? The courts that operate under a democratically choosen constitution dont seem to think so.

You couldn't really be referring to his conviction (5-4) for signing a public document (as all husbands in Thailand are required to do) acknowledging that his wife could buy land ---- allowing a charge of conflict of interest to be brought against him --- as he was a government member --- you call this corruption ???

As crimes go ----this must rank right up there !!! ----- please ...... yet more calls for INTERPOL --- --- Track this man down before he does it again!!!

"under a democratically choosen constitution"

--- This is the constitution enacted by the Military Junta after the coup perhaps ??

[madi]

The PPP will be dissolved 100% on Tuesday ,and under Thai law the Judges desicion cannot be questioned ,the PPP will

be forced to accept and dissolve the party , funny how the PAD do not accet the descion ageist them to leave the airport

but want the PPP to accept the desicion against them , The PAD are hypocrites of the highest nature ,and have no respect for

any law , also the PAD agenda about the poor not being allowed to vote as they are not educated enougth , there is a word for that

it,s called RACISM, just as the world is trying to stop it ,these guys want to introduce it as democracy

On Dec. 2. the hearing is the last chance for the Party Leader to voice their statements. The decision will be after that, maybe NOT on the same day.

According the Court Order against the PAD: that's different because that Court order was done by an Civil Court and there is an 15 days period for to appeal. The PAD did NOT need to follow that order immediatly and the PAD has announced that they will appeal against that order! Just as the aw told!

If you and others writing statements like you did, better get informed before and don't just repeat the rumors!

Cheers.

Since when do Thai people care what the court says?

By the way--isn't this the court that was put in my a military government that also did a coup and was not elected?

Seems to me that you have to start with a constitution put in my a democratic people.

The current set up was put in my a coup.

It is too too funny hearing people refer to this piece of rag paper as if it means something.

[henryalleman]

The Flemish national broadcast company send an TV crew and reporter to Suva. I front the airport theyve been stopped bu unarmed guards of PAD. They guide them with courtesy inside the airport. What we saw was a few thousand of people singing and clap the hands. Yes they realy look like terrible terrorists.

They asked a man why they do like this, and did he not realise that they hurt the Thai economy imensly, and its it worth it. He answered; If you look to next week or next year its not worth it; But you look to the the next 20 or 30 year it is worth it, because in the next 30 years we will have honnest politicians, no corrupted elections, and our economy will benefit from it. So yes we will suffer temporary but in the long run we will benefit from what is happening now.

They also visited the military airport where they set up temporay check in counters.

http://www.deredactie.be/cm/de.redactie

commercial TV station

http://www.vtm.be/nieuws/index_bekijkonline.htm

this an unbias report from a small country with only 6.5 million people, but they send a crew their, and keep us informed. Sorry its in Dutch language but I know there a few dozen Dutch speaking members on TV. So maybe they like to kept informed in there own language

One slight problem being the average person & businessman cannot wait 20-30yrs! Half of the PAD protestors will probably have died of old age by then.

Thailand is facing a transition, and this will not be without pain. regrettable yes, but all western democracies had facing the same problems in the late 19th and 20th century. just look to Spain, Portugal, Romania and all the former USSR eastern Europe satellite states. and see how they progress since than.

Lets only hope that Thailand become a REAL democracy, and that the military keep out. And frankly I believe that the Financial crises will hurt them more than the current political situation.

IMHO the present government should step down, and an government of national unity should be formed, who organise an new election free from vote buying and corruption.

[Tatsujin]

OK . . . where can I go on here and read the latest NEWS rather than all this back and forth, you are wrong, I am right rubbish flaming of each other?

Is there an area of this Forum that posts the actual latest real NEWS and DOESN'T allow all these comments so that I can keep up to date and form my OWN opinions, rather than having other people's rammed down my throat?

(Fingers crossed)

Tats

Tats, your best technique is to scan and find posts that are obviously news headings.

Thanks PeaceBlondie . . . it was more of a rhetorical question though and a criticism of many of the posters here! lol

Tats

[Lite Beer]

OK . . . where can I go on here and read the latest NEWS rather than all this back and forth, you are wrong, I am right rubbish flaming of each other?

Is there an area of this Forum that posts the actual latest real NEWS and DOESN'T allow all these comments so that I can keep up to date and form my OWN opinions, rather than having other people's rammed down my throat?

(Fingers crossed)

Tats

The answer is on here.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Pinned-Threa...nt-t210038.html

[Plus]

Don't we have a sticky topic here in the News Clippings that has only news and no pocitical comments?

That seems to be exactly what Tatsujin is looking for.

[KireB]

I never said Thaksin wasn't corrupt. He surely was, BUT ....here it comes:

- Under Thaksin, he stole money, but developed the country and brought it up to "international standards", so to say.

- Under Sondhi/Chamlong's chaos and anarchy, the country is falling back decades with millions of job losses and billions in damages.

Now you tell me, is it better for someone to steal money and do somehing? Or better for someone to steal money and ruin everything?

Thailand never had a choice of true Democracy or of a honest government.

Thailand has a choice between a government that steals and does something, or a government that steals and does nothing.

In an earlier post you wrote that Thaksin fought corruption! Why would you contradict yourself?

And no, it's not alright to steal money if you are the prime minister of a country, no matter how 'well' you managed the economy.

If you steal money from your employer you'll be fired as well!

Edited November 30, 2008 by KireB

[A_Traveller]

Transparency International Corruption index

2007 ------- 84 of 179 ------- 3.3

2006 ------- 63 of 163 ------- 3.6

2005 ------- 59 of 158 ------- 3.8

2004 ------- 64 of 145 ------- 3.6

2003 ------- 70 of 133 ------- 3.3

2002 ------- 64 of 102 ------- 3.2

2001 ------- 61 of 91 ------- 3.2

2000 ------- 60 of 90 ------- 3.2

1999 ------- 68 of 99 ------- 3.2

1998 ------- 61 of 85 ------- 3.0

1997 ------- 39 of 42 ------- 3.1

1996 ------- 37 of 54 ------- 3.3

1995 ------- 35 of 41 ------- 2.8

..[T]he implication of a score of 3.3 is that the country still suffers under the weight of serious corruption. ... seriousness of corruption in the public and private sectors, from health services and the police force to the upper echelons of government ...

[Guest Reimar]

Transparency International Corruption index

2007 ------- 84 of 179 ------- 3.3

2006 ------- 63 of 163 ------- 3.6

2005 ------- 59 of 158 ------- 3.8

2004 ------- 64 of 145 ------- 3.6

2003 ------- 70 of 133 ------- 3.3

2002 ------- 64 of 102 ------- 3.2

2001 ------- 61 of 91 ------- 3.2

2000 ------- 60 of 90 ------- 3.2

1999 ------- 68 of 99 ------- 3.2

1998 ------- 61 of 85 ------- 3.0

1997 ------- 39 of 42 ------- 3.1

1996 ------- 37 of 54 ------- 3.3

1995 ------- 35 of 41 ------- 2.8

..[T]he implication of a score of 3.3 is that the country still suffers under the weight of serious corruption. ... seriousness of corruption in the public and private sectors, from health services and the police force to the upper echelons of government ...

Interesting to see how the Index jumps up in the late 1. and than 2. period of the Thaksin Government!

Did that tells somethings?

Cheers.

[zorro1]

Classic check this out were a bit slow down under but the girls are hot even by Thai standards

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=676153

[rainman]

In an earlier post you wrote that Thaksin fought corruption! Why would you contradict yourself?

I am not contradicting myself. I said Thaksin fought corruption. And I also said Thaksin stole money. The others also stole money, but didn't fight corruption. What don't you understand about that?

And no, it's not alright to steal money if you are the prime minister of a country, no matter how 'well' you managed the economy.

If you steal money from your employer you'll be fired as well!

Of course it's not, but Thailand never had a choice. They have a choice between a thief that does something and a thief that does nothing. If you steal money, you'll be fired by your employer, sure. But then the guy who fired you takes over. He steals money as well, but while he's at it, he runs the company into the ground. Who was better?

Again, Thailand never had a choice for true Democracy or an uncorrupted government. I don't know why this is still so hard to understand for some people.

Edited November 30, 2008 by rainman

[henryalleman]

I just got back home for a break after 3 days on standby at the airport. Here's just some (I hope nuetral) observations

There have been no gunshots as far as I am aware.

I have been inside and outside the airport and there seems to me to be 2 kind of PAD 1. A very hardcore member willing to die and use any violence neccessary to achieve whatever goals they want (normally younger but up to middle aged men). 2. A less aware person trying to express their feelings of frustration (normally middle aged women).

I talked to a middle aged women who said she was not scared to die, she was totally into what she was doing. I felt concern for her child who she had with her, he had no choice in the matter.

I was part of a 30 ambulance team stationed in front of the Novotel. The first few days we had to pass through police checkpoints in and out of the greater airport area. But late saturday night we returned to find the PAD manning these roadblocks and searching our ambulances.

So now the Novotel sits in 'occupied' PAD territory with no security. They started doing little marches around the streets in convoys of vehicles with most people being armed. Many of the nurses were quite afraid as they strolled past them brandishing weapons. I think it would have been prudent to pull out of the area and set up a new area but its not my choice.

I have been for a couple of walks through the airport and the PAD seems very organised including their own security. There are open shops that have nothing removed from them with only a few PAD members around to police it. No one is allowed past passport control.

Its a very strange feeling being in a place that has no police authority, The PAD members with weapons were made even more intimidating by this fact. If they turned on us, no one would (or could)come to help.

The PAD has an enormous supply of food, clothing and blankets. I got my toothbrush from them along with a bag of apples,a shaver and a coffee! (more than I had received from the Red Cross during my 3 days)

They have phone charging points, a shuttle service, a makeshift hospital, really quite impressive.

I have been for a couple of walks through the airport and the PAD seems very organised including their own security. There are open shops that have nothing removed from them with only a few PAD members around to police it. No one is allowed past passport control.

I got my toothbrush from them along with a bag of apples,a shaver and a coffee! (more than I had received from the Red Cross during my 3 days)

Do you know any terrorist organisation who act like that. Its shows that they are disciplined people who fight with dignity for a just cause(in their eyes)

what a difference from the looting riots in the US and Europe we have seen by Afro Americans and Muslim youngsters.

[Guest Reimar]

As a side note:

Former prime minister Samak faxes his MP resignation from America

Government Spokesman Natthawut Saikua said Sunday that former prime minister Samak Sundaravej faxed his resignation from the United States, asking him to submit it to the House speaker.

Natthawut said Samak cited his health problems as a main reason to resign.

The Nation

[oneeyedmunstaruler]

In the UK, Thailand is featured at No.7 of the World's 20 most Dangerous Places..................in the Sunday Telegraph on-line

I've been in some pretty dangerous countries before. The fact that I can at the moment pretty much go wherever I want and do whatever I want without fear of harm in Bangkok makes me want to dispute this ranking. For sure it is inconvenient and retarded at the moment, but dangerous?

[rainman]

Classic check this out were a bit slow down under but the girls are hot even by Thai standards

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=676153

There we have it, PAD paying parents to send their children to go protest. Disgusting. When I said PAD was at my Soi's market recruiting and offering money to anyone who whould drive with them to Suvarnabhumi, nobody believed me.

[oneeyedmunstaruler]

OK . . . where can I go on here and read the latest NEWS rather than all this back and forth, you are wrong, I am right rubbish flaming of each other?

Go to google news search, enter your parameters, and there you go....

TV Admin should actually set up threads that are closed to comment which have only news clippings, but they don't.

[Kerryd]

OK . . . where can I go on here and read the latest NEWS rather than all this back and forth, you are wrong, I am right rubbish flaming of each other?

Try:

Bangkok Post

The Nation

CNN

BBC

Faux (Fox)

Rueters

MSNBC

Because those are the places where most of the latest "news" here comes from.

Is there an area of this Forum that posts the actual latest real NEWS and DOESN'T allow all these comments so that I can keep up to date and form my OWN opinions, rather than having other people's rammed down my throat?

Tats

Ahh, short answer ? No.

This is an internet chat forum. Not a news site. I'm sorry that our concerns about the crisis are inconveniencing you. I'll try to help.

Would everyone here that has connections to Thailand in any way, or has any concern about the future of the country for any reason, please stop posting.

Your continuous posting is inconveniencing others that just want to see the news, much like the PAD occupation of the airport is inconveniencing those that want to travel or ship their goods to market, or get their mail.

If the PAD are labelled "terrorists" for causing this inconvenience, then everyone here that is posting anything other than strictly news stories is also a terrorist. Please report to Nurse Diesel in Forum 47 for a paddling.

Thank you in advance for your cooperation and understanding.

[KireB]

I am not contradicting myself. I said Thaksin fought corruption. And I also said Thaksin stole money. The others also stole money, but didn't fight corruption. What don't you understand about that?

No this doesnt make sense at all!

Of course it's not, but Thailand never had a choice. They have a choice between a thief that does something and a thief that does nothing.

Again, Thailand never had a choice for true Democracy or an uncorrupted government. I don't know why this is still so hard to understand for some people.

Quite sad not, a country without real democracy. I actually agree with you on this one.

But that the people dont have a choice is rubbish. Some people are standing up, making choices, at this very moment!

[rainman]

Quite sad not, a country without real democracy. I actually agree with you on this one.

But that the people dont have a choice is rubbish. Some people are standing up, making choices, at this very moment!

By ruining the country? The PPP will be dissolved in 2 days anyways. Why stand up a week before and ruin the country if the outcome is the same, on the same day? Explain that?

[Tigs]

Transparency International Corruption index

2007 ------- 84 of 179 ------- 3.3

2006 ------- 63 of 163 ------- 3.6

2005 ------- 59 of 158 ------- 3.8

2004 ------- 64 of 145 ------- 3.6

2003 ------- 70 of 133 ------- 3.3

2002 ------- 64 of 102 ------- 3.2

2001 ------- 61 of 91 ------- 3.2

2000 ------- 60 of 90 ------- 3.2

1999 ------- 68 of 99 ------- 3.2

1998 ------- 61 of 85 ------- 3.0

1997 ------- 39 of 42 ------- 3.1

1996 ------- 37 of 54 ------- 3.3

1995 ------- 35 of 41 ------- 2.8

..[T]he implication of a score of 3.3 is that the country still suffers under the weight of serious corruption. ... seriousness of corruption in the public and private sectors, from health services and the police force to the upper echelons of government ...

Interesting to see how the Index jumps up in the late 1. and than 2. period of the Thaksin Government!

Did that tells somethings?

Cheers.

You are right Reimar the score does jump up, that is interesting. But.....

Doh! Don't you just hate it when that happens. This score index works on the higher the score, the less corrupt the country is!!

[Splatter]

From the latest Abac Poll

75% embarrassed by local politcs

92% think the justice system can resolve the politcal problems

59% wont take sides

I guess that is a vote down for PAD and PPP and a big thumbs up for whatever the court decides and I would think those siting in the nice middle that they have created somewhat artificially will be smiling at this number.

Objective achieved.

And who will be taking care of the justice system as of next Wednesday morning?

[chrislarsson]

Transparency International Corruption index

2007 ------- 84 of 179 ------- 3.3

2006 ------- 63 of 163 ------- 3.6

2005 ------- 59 of 158 ------- 3.8

2004 ------- 64 of 145 ------- 3.6

2003 ------- 70 of 133 ------- 3.3

2002 ------- 64 of 102 ------- 3.2

2001 ------- 61 of 91 ------- 3.2

2000 ------- 60 of 90 ------- 3.2

1999 ------- 68 of 99 ------- 3.2

1998 ------- 61 of 85 ------- 3.0

1997 ------- 39 of 42 ------- 3.1

1996 ------- 37 of 54 ------- 3.3

1995 ------- 35 of 41 ------- 2.8

..[T]he implication of a score of 3.3 is that the country still suffers under the weight of serious corruption. ... seriousness of corruption in the public and private sectors, from health services and the police force to the upper echelons of government ...

Interesting to see how the Index jumps up in the late 1. and than 2. period of the Thaksin Government!

Did that tells somethings?

Cheers.

Well... it tells that Thailand was making good progress until 2005, and after that it's all downhill.

I assume it is clear that a higher index means lower corruption. Denmark is the least corrupt country at 9.4 and Somalia the most corrupt at 1.4.

[Plus]

Transparency International Corruption index

If I remember correctly this index doesn't have tools to account for corruption done in Thaksin style.

Thaksin overhauled country's civil service and there were many positive results coming from that in terms of efficiency and less corruption at lower levels.

PAD is angry at what happened at the top, however.

If you think they are overreacting - consider that one excise tax deal has given his company over a hundred billion baht, enough to provide free education to the whole country for several years. Transparency Index wouldn't catch that because Thaksin was the PM, in their eyes he just legally issued a new law.

[permanent_disorder]

I think the real reason why the opposition hates Thaksin is because he fought corruption. Sondhi and Chamlong didn't get as many bribes anymore as before.

Thaksin fought corruption? The courts that operate under a democratically choosen constitution dont seem to think so.

privatization of state own monopol industries would bring corruption that appear in that sector to an end. for ever.

PAD will stop the privatization

Thaksin didn't help out Sondhi to sneak out the repay of a loan.

decriminalization of allready existing underground lottery and casinos would bring a return of tax money and not only bribe and tea money.

but funsucker Chamlong didnt like that, before that he was a long time advisor and teacher of Thaksin (new social order, war on drugs etc). but Thaksins ideas of liberalisation was nothing for the moralist and prohibitionist Chamlong.

and if we have "courts that operate under a democratically choosen constitution" `= rule of law. why we need Chamlong & The Tarmac Campers?

[Colonel_Mustard]

Transparency International Corruption index

2007 ------- 84 of 179 ------- 3.3

2006 ------- 63 of 163 ------- 3.6

2005 ------- 59 of 158 ------- 3.8

2004 ------- 64 of 145 ------- 3.6

2003 ------- 70 of 133 ------- 3.3

2002 ------- 64 of 102 ------- 3.2

2001 ------- 61 of 91 ------- 3.2

2000 ------- 60 of 90 ------- 3.2

1999 ------- 68 of 99 ------- 3.2

1998 ------- 61 of 85 ------- 3.0

1997 ------- 39 of 42 ------- 3.1

1996 ------- 37 of 54 ------- 3.3

1995 ------- 35 of 41 ------- 2.8

..[T]he implication of a score of 3.3 is that the country still suffers under the weight of serious corruption. ... seriousness of corruption in the public and private sectors, from health services and the police force to the upper echelons of government ...

Interesting to see how the Index jumps up in the late 1. and than 2. period of the Thaksin Government!

Did that tells somethings?

Cheers.

Yes, it tells us that you don't really understand how the index works.

[Guest Reimar]

Classic check this out were a bit slow down under but the girls are hot even by Thai standards

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=676153

There we have it, PAD paying parents to send their children to go protest. Disgusting. When I said PAD was at my Soi's market recruiting and offering money to anyone who whould drive with them to Suvarnabhumi, nobody believed me.

Nice to have the own name in the news, and that's quite easy in situations as this!

But: from my point of view that's just rumor, to title it softly! Just ONE person, a foreigner, who gave that info, to an foreign journalist for a foreign News!

Reading that article just the feeling came up that's just a story!

Cheers.

[henryalleman]

AOT chief to seek permission to fly 88 empty commercial planes from Suvarnabhumi

Serirat Prasutanond, president of Airports of Thailand Plc, said Sunday that he will seek permission from the People's Alliance for Democracy again Sunday to retrieve 88 commercial planes left unattended at the Suvarnabhumi International Airport.

------------------------------

permission?? un-fuc_king-believable. so much for the arguments that "the PAD didn't close down the airport, they merely just assembled". and now they're going to try to take over the sea ports?

i'm sorry guys, but i think it's safe to say this is terrorist activity at this point. you can't convince me otherwise now. i understand what the PAD is trying to accomplish but they're fuc_king their own country over.

I agree- un-fuc_king-believable.

The PAD claims that they have never stopped the airport from operating, but now they must give permission for aircraft movements?

Are all of these 88 airplanes Thai Airways / Thai carriers? Are there any foreign national airplanes on the ground? Anyone know? An aircraft on the ground isn't making any money, and in fact would be costing the carrier a small fortune.

A foreign owned aircraft being held hostage by the PAD could turn into a major international incident. I can easily imagine the USA "sending in the Marines" to reclaim their property.

Can't do they, are too busy to steal somebody else's property in Irac

[old wanderer]

By ruining the country? The PPP will be dissolved in 2 days anyways. Why stand up a week before and ruin the country if the outcome is the same, on the same day? Explain that?

You could do this yourself, by just going back to some of last weeks posts.

1. The PM and followers wanted to amend the constitution to revoke the sections dealing with corruption that got the TRT and Thaskin banned.

2. They wanted to do away with the Privy Council, thus eliminating the influence of the Monarchy.

3. Restructure the reporting of various government agencies....

a. Currently the courts do not report to the PM

b. Currently the military does not report to the PM

with this draft approved, the ability to grant amnesty would be changed to the PM, and he would become the defacto Monarch of Thailand much as Thaskin was moving in the direction of becoming.

These are the simple reason the PAD could not allow the government to continue to function. Had the PPP been successful, the entire structure would have been forever changed in Thailand.

Hope this clarifies the question for you.

[midas]

The plot thickens even further and the whole scenario appears even more bizarre

because BBC world in the 3.00 pm bulletin just reported the Thai Prime Minister has actually left

Thailand for personal reasons. In the reporters words it looks increasingly like

the governments grip on power is slipping further away

Edited November 30, 2008 by midas