Why The Thais Are In This Situation.

[BangkokBP]

Totally agree dumball. This article is larded with such bland superficialities, basic generalizations as to be in a junior high school textbook. It says next to nothing about the current crisis. That od course might be just the reason Bangkok Post printed it …. Is Soul Searching in this Sunday's edition?

Perhaps you can add insights from your post junior high school education, that obviously is on a level way above me, that could further educate the TV readers, and help them understand the psychological and cultural reasons for the divide that is now risking to rip this country apart?

Or perhaps you just post in complete ignorance because you are somewhere that is not affected or have any real interest in the situation here?

/bbp

[mommysboy]

For those who have not yet grasped the underlying psychological reasons of the current crisis, this is a good - neutral - read.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/291108_News/29Nov2008_news19.php

/bbp

Reason for edit: Removed irrelevant personal commentary that distracted from the article in question.

Same old rubbish. Got bored half way through. Usual stuff, sanook, mai pen rai, mai tawng wien hua. anakot hen mai dai. = reckless fun, who gives a stuff, you think too much, who cares about tomorrow.

All these articles just seek to sanitise what is comletely uunacceptable in any half decent society.

[BangkokBP]

Not a bad article. However, the glaring omission, the massive glaring omission is any mention of money in the article. Short-term and long-term financial considerations figure heavily in people's decision-making and in a way differing from Western decision-making (whatever that is!).

That is very probably true, and affects it as political involvement is too serious a matter and voting because is not "sanook" and because it means you would have to make an educated decision, thus you vote for the one who gets through to you with the best offer, be it money or populist policies.

/bbp

Edited November 30, 2008 by BangkokBP

[digitele]

Perhaps you can add insights from your post junior high school education, that obviously is on a level way above me, that could further educate the TV readers, and help them understand the psychological and cultural reasons for the divide that is now risking to rip this country apart?

Man, chill out. Just another of many articles out there, why care?

Your question: help them understand the psychological and cultural reasons for the divide that is now risking to rip this country apart?[

1) Rich MINORITY has controlled every aspect of this country for far too long and done a <deleted> job. Shameful in all aspects.

2) Poor MAJORITY, in the 21st century is going to explode eventually and that long overdue day is finally coming.

Both sides will not stop until their side wins. This is the truly scary part, OK?

Read some world history as to how this usually ends up....It is not a scenario unique to Thailand, but it is their turn.

So, do you now understand the divide that is risking to rip this country apart?

Edited November 30, 2008 by digitele

[slimdog]

This article is larded with such bland superficialities, basic generalizations as to be in a junior high school textbook. It says next to nothing about the current crisis. That of course might be just the reason Bangkok Post printed it ….

Have to say I agree with you, it takes a quite complicated issue and then tries (un-successfully) to explain what it is all about, and why people are behaving as they are.

There are some westerners who have tried (sucessfully) to explain some of the reasons that Thailand has been in a mess for as long as I have lived here, which is basically most of my adult life. The three who spring to mind are Marc Askew ,Duncan McCargo and Chris Baker.

The difference between the three authors above and Kaye Eldridge (Who wrote The Bangkok Post Article), is that they actually understand the complexities of the phuak system, and how it has been successfully used (Abused) by Politicians and Political Parties for the past 25 years or so,(And is currently being used/abused by PAD), and they would never dream of coming up with such idiotic conclusions as Eldridge did, let alone asking Thai people to change their basic cultural beliefs.

In a sense it is all about manipulation, how your group is right, how people not in your group are bad, how your group loves the country, and by extension how people not in your group hate the country, logic and reasoning will never work any more than asking a sports fan to switch their affections to a rival team, it has been so drummed into them that the rival is the opposite of everything that you hold dear, that to do so makes the person feel like a traitor, even when the rival holds exactly the same beliefs as you do.

Everyone in Thailand loves the Country

Everyone in Thailand loves the King

Everyone in Thailand want's the Country to prosper

It's just that when you are part of a group,you are led (manipulated) to believe that Your Group has loves and cares greater than your rivals.

[BangkokBP]

Perhaps you can add insights from your post junior high school education, that obviously is on a level way above me, that could further educate the TV readers, and help them understand the psychological and cultural reasons for the divide that is now risking to rip this country apart?

Man, chill out. Just another of many articles out there, why care?

Your question: help them understand the psychological and cultural reasons for the divide that is now risking to rip this country apart?[

1) Rich MINORITY has controlled every aspect of this country for far too long and done a <deleted> job. Shameful in all aspects.

2) Poor MAJORITY, in the 21st century is going to explode eventually and that long overdue day is finally coming.

Both sides will not stop until their side wins. This is the truly scary part, OK?

Read some world history as to how this usually ends up....It is not a scenario unique to Thailand, but it is their turn.

So, do you now understand the divide that is risking to rip this country apart?

No, I would not pretend that I do understand what is ripping this land apart, I am merely trying to reduce prejudice and uninformed negative comments against the Thai people. Granted that many are not educated, mostly the ones from your second category, and educating them could prevent situations like this, and governments like the ones "in power" now.

/bbp

[NarcissusRIP]

Think green, this is an extreme method to save the natural invironment.

Less airplanes in the air, less polution.

[Andrew Hicks]

I gor very little from the lengthy diatribes other than :

We do not like to work .

We would rather play and have fun .

Most importantly "We are always right ".

Totally agree dumball. This article is larded with such bland superficialities, basic generalizations as to be in a junior high school textbook. It says next to nothing about the current crisis. That od course might be just the reason Bangkok Post printed it …. Is Soul Searching in this Sunday’s edition?

I tend to agree that the article while an interesting topic took an awful long time to say not very much. So the Thais are emotional and so on...

Consensus values are made much of. There seems to be a considerable lack of consensus to me at the moment though.

The peoples' attachment to Thaksin is not an illogical and emotional one. He was the first to speak up on their behalf and spend middle class tax money on the unwashed farmers. If a farmer sells his vote to the highest bidder that seems hard nosed and logical to me

Certainly a feature of the conflict seems to be the absenceof a debate on issues. What the Pad says about 'democracy' and abolishing it is of course a naked attempt to seize power from the electorate. I suppose that's all it is... a power struggle.

[egg6447]

I gor very little from the lengthy diatribes other than :

We do not like to work .

We would rather play and have fun .

Most importantly "We are always right ".

same same. i like diatribe, what a luverly word.lol.

[PhilHarries]

Once this blows over I'm considering going back to USA where as bad as it is at least my kids will get a decent education and NEVER would the airports be allowed to be blocked by protesters

RANT OVER

Yes your kids will never have to face an airport closure in the USA. But they might find themselves looking down the barrel of an M16. Still they'll be the smartest kids in the cemetary.

The problem with this situation is that it has been allowed to escalate to a point where neither side can give ground without appearing to have lost face. It's unfortunate but it all comes back to one man, a convicted criminal. The current administration is hel_l bent on rewriting the constitution to get their man off the hook. Take that out of the equation and I'm sure the opposing parties could come to a settlement.

As for the article I am not sure it is as simple as it is portrayed. The Thais are simple people with simple ideals, dreams and aspiratins and thus easily lead on both sides. They are not stupid as many on this forum would have it. They merely lack the basic education we take so much for granted. But I am sure if, worst comes to worst, it all ends in bloodshed the followers of Major J. D. Bomb-the-B@st@ds will wallow in the limelight of their self peceived god given righteousness.

Sometimes I am proud to be from the western developed world with so much to offer but sometimes I am sick to be possibly associated with the pack of bayng bloodthirsty war dogs I see evidence of here on TV.

All it takes is a little understanding and if that's too much for you and you feel you just have to leave Thailand just remember one fact : in a month's time you will be forgotten, just another passing ship in the night.

[BangkokBP]

This article is larded with such bland superficialities, basic generalizations as to be in a junior high school textbook. It says next to nothing about the current crisis. That of course might be just the reason Bangkok Post printed it ….

Have to say I agree with you, it takes a quite complicated issue and then tries (un-successfully) to explain what it is all about, and why people are behaving as they are.

There are some westerners who have tried (sucessfully) to explain some of the reasons that Thailand has been in a mess for as long as I have lived here, which is basically most of my adult life. The three who spring to mind are Marc Askew ,Duncan McCargo and Chris Baker.

The difference between the three authors above and Kaye Eldridge (Who wrote The Bangkok Post Article), is that they actually understand the complexities of the phuak system, and how it has been successfully used (Abused) by Politicians and Political Parties for the past 25 years or so,(And is currently being used/abused by PAD), and they would never dream of coming up with such idiotic conclusions as Eldridge did, let alone asking Thai people to change their basic cultural beliefs.

In a sense it is all about manipulation, how your group is right, how people not in your group are bad, how your group loves the country, and by extension how people not in your group hate the country, logic and reasoning will never work any more than asking a sports fan to switch their affections to a rival team, it has been so drummed into them that the rival is the opposite of everything that you hold dear, that to do so makes the person feel like a traitor, even when the rival holds exactly the same beliefs as you do.

Everyone in Thailand loves the Country

Everyone in Thailand loves the King

Everyone in Thailand want's the Country to prosper

It's just that when you are part of a group,you are led (manipulated) to believe that Your Group has loves and cares greater than your rivals.

Slimdog,

Thank you for the reference to those authors, I will try to find the works you are referring to.

As for the lacking of the article in question, I still think it is giving some hints that may avert uninformed and/or ignorant comments about stupidity and idiots.

Showing cultural respect is still of value.

/bbp

[ajarnmark]

The problem with this situation is that it has been allowed to escalate to a point where neither side can give ground without appearing to have lost face. It's unfortunate but it all comes back to one man, a convicted criminal. The current administration is hel_l bent on rewriting the constitution to get their man off the hook. Take that out of the equation and I'm sure the opposing parties could come to a settlement.

But how can we take Sondhi out of this equation?

Reason for edit: Snip original quote.

Edited November 30, 2008 by ajarnmark

[john b good]

Um I thought about.... but in my mind they are still.... well you said it already.

If you gave it good thought already, I have no complaints. Everyone have the right to their own opinion. My hope was to add a dimension to the single minded people who posts insults without considering cultural differences.

/bbp

You cannot gloss over everything in the name of "cultural differences"

A monkey is a monkey is a monkey regardless of whether they are in Malaysia, Borneo, Indonesia or wherever.

These 3rd world countries (of which the realm is one) should be doing everything they can to achieve 2nd world and ultimately 1st world status instead of falling back on "cultural differences"

In the early 1990's the realm was (or had) the fastest growing economy in the world. Where is it now.

[Crushdepth]

I am sure many of TV readers have noticed that there are many fellow posters who accuse Thais of being stupid, ignorant and other things.

Actually, we spend most of our time accusing each other of being stupid

[BangkokBP]

You cannot gloss over everything in the name of "cultural differences"

A monkey is a monkey is a monkey regardless of whether they are in Malaysia, Borneo, Indonesia or wherever.

These 3rd world countries (of which the realm is one) should be doing everything they can to achieve 2nd world and ultimately 1st world status instead of falling back on "cultural differences"

In the early 1990's the realm was (or had) the fastest growing economy in the world. Where is it now.

I am not trying to gloss anything over, I am just hoping that people can see things from a different angle than their own.

An equally educated response would be "An American is an American is an American, regardless of where in the world he is."

IN this case, for most of the rest of the world, no derogatory zoological references would be needed, so lay it off.

//bbp

Edited November 30, 2008 by BangkokBP

[jasreeve17]

I gor very little from the lengthy diatribes other than :

We do not like to work .

We would rather play and have fun .

Most importantly "We are always right ".

Totally agree dumball. This article is larded with such bland superficialities, basic generalizations as to be in a junior high school textbook. It says next to nothing about the current crisis. That od course might be just the reason Bangkok Post printed it …. Is Soul Searching in this Sunday's edition?

I tend to agree that the article while an interesting topic took an awful long time to say not very much. So the Thais are emotional and so on...

Consensus values are made much of. There seems to be a considerable lack of consensus to me at the moment though.

The peoples' attachment to Thaksin is not an illogical and emotional one. He was the first to speak up on their behalf and spend middle class tax money on the unwashed farmers. If a farmer sells his vote to the highest bidder that seems hard nosed and logical to me

Certainly a feature of the conflict seems to be the absenceof a debate on issues. What the Pad says about 'democracy' and abolishing it is of course a naked attempt to seize power from the electorate. I suppose that's all it is... a power struggle.

OP thanks for pointing out the article.

Having read it; lots of big words, pretence, stereotyping, generalisms and presumptions whilst actually saying very little. Re-reading and trying to analyse a bit deeper I'd suggest that it's a very poor article (as in badly written and inaccurate, lacking in objective and objectivity). - just my thoughts.

[Carib]

What I learned from this so far is Thai people in general are as stupid and incompetent as I always suspected they were/are and I'm somebody who has spent quite and bit of time here and invested substantial amount of money also.

Once this blows over I'm considering going back to USA where as bad as it is at least my kids will get a decent education and NEVER would the airports be allowed to be blocked by protesters

RANT OVER

Well I hope you find what you are looking for with all the intelligent people surrounding you back home, life must have been hel_l on your `brains` in Thailand. The suffering you took...remind me to pity you every now and than....sigh.

Oh, will your kids have the same `education` you had back home ? , Hmmmm..

[BangkokBP]

OP thanks for pointing out the article.

Having read it; lots of big words, pretence, stereotyping, generalisms and presumptions whilst actually saying very little. Re-reading and trying to analyse a bit deeper I'd suggest that it's a very poor article (as in badly written and inaccurate, lacking in objective and objectivity). - just my thoughts.

jasreeve17,

I am sure there are better and more insightful works to explain the issues, to me however it was helpful and an easy read, how ever shallow it may be, and available at a time when many are ranting on thoughtlessly about Thai peoples stupidity.

/bbp

[misterman21]

For those who have not yet grasped the underlying psychological reasons of the current crisis, this is a good - neutral - read.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/291108_News/29Nov2008_news19.php

As Bangkok Post links die in a few days, unless you pay to read the items, here is the full article:

THE THAI PSYCHE

Thailand's messy politics: Is culture the culprit?

KAYE ELDRIDGE

The ‘‘sanuk’’ factor even in protest... An anti-government PAD protester in fancy costume waves a banner during yesterday’s demonstration at Suvarnabhumi Airport.

While Thailand spirals into further political crisis, this article examines the current situation from a cultural perspective, to reveal why Westerners might have difficulties understanding how recent political events could have transpired in a country so renowned for its easy-going nature.

Many Westerners, both inside and outside of Thailand, have been watching closely as the country falls into a deeper political mess, and they are wondering how Thais can be acting so violently against each other.

Thailand, a country once popular for its beaches, temples and carefree people, is fast becoming more well-known for its civil unrest.

Holiday-makers can no longer be sure of reliable flight arrangements and many are being warned by their governments to stay away from the country.

How has Thailand digressed so far from its reputation as a fun-loving tourist destination?

In September 2006, prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra was released of his leadership through a military coup amidst allegations of corruption. Since then much has happened: consequential elections were won by the People Power party (PPP), a political grouping largely recognised as Thaksin's proxy and favoured by rural constituents; the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) subsequently began their persistent demonstrations; Samak Sundaravej then lost the PM's seat due to a cooking show and Thaksin's brother-in-law took over the seat; and demonstrators have consequently begun using more aggressive tactics.

So what is the point - this article says nothing relative

[tominchaam]

Um I thought about.... but in my mind they are still.... well you said it already.

If you gave it good thought already, I have no complaints. Everyone have the right to their own opinion. My hope was to add a dimension to the single minded people who posts insults without considering cultural differences.

/bbp

bbp - your post certainly added good information. Tks!

[jasreeve17]

OP thanks for pointing out the article.

Having read it; lots of big words, pretence, stereotyping, generalisms and presumptions whilst actually saying very little. Re-reading and trying to analyse a bit deeper I'd suggest that it's a very poor article (as in badly written and inaccurate, lacking in objective and objectivity). - just my thoughts.

jasreeve17,

I am sure there are better and more insightful works to explain the issues, to me however it was helpful and an easy read, how ever shallow it may be, and available at a time when many are ranting on thoughtlessly about Thai peoples stupidity.

/bbp

I agree - in this crazy and polarized time, it's good to see something that attempts to reason. There is far too much thoughtless ranting (I've decided to stop my useless ranting...), so thanks for posting, as the usual red V yellow V red is very boring.

[Carib]

What I learned from this so far is Thai people in general are as stupid and incompetent as I always suspected they were/are and I'm somebody who has spent quite and bit of time here and invested substantial amount of money also.

Once this blows over I'm considering going back to USA where as bad as it is at least my kids will get a decent education and NEVER would the airports be allowed to be blocked by protesters

RANT OVER

I might add that both sides are ignorant cannon fodder. The die hard Thai defenders on here have been here too long.

They too have lost the plot. Unfortunately, I fear wide spread violance when the cork pops in this saga.

Starting Monday night local time as the NY world markets re-open after Thanksgiving someone on here should create

a graph of two things 1) Amount of days airport closed VS decline in the Thai Bahts value.

Let the cannon fodder continue, they will anyway. Merry Christmas at 50 or more Baht vs USD. Ho! Ho! Ho1

The Thais can only blame themselves. Sanuk my arse!

Woow another very intelligent western view on things.....sigh. Anybody notice the short term vision hidden inside, and the typical western way of thinking which always has to do with money ?

No wonder you don't understand anything further than the borders of your, what must be an `amazing` home country.

Now what is it that made you leave that fantastic society ? What a waste of your time , and money ofcourse...

[LinkPopularity]

I gor very little from the lengthy diatribes other than :

We do not like to work .

We would rather play and have fun .

Most importantly "We are always right ".

it's no mystery to me;

Asia is feminine

Europe balanced

America masculine

try to look at situations with that in your mind and all of a sudden it becomes easy to understand ...

Thailand is a kindergarten full with little spoiled girls ... lots of fun, sure, but also very annoying from time to time

[mittheimp]

The article does not mention the emperors new clothes syndrome - and thus does not answer its own question at all.

[JimmyTheMook]

What I learned from this so far is Thai people in general are as stupid and incompetent as I always suspected they were/are and I'm somebody who has spent quite and bit of time here and invested substantial amount of money also.

Once this blows over I'm considering going back to USA where as bad as it is at least my kids will get a decent education and NEVER would the airports be allowed to be blocked by protesters

RANT OVER

I might add that both sides are ignorant cannon fodder. The die hard Thai defenders on here have been here too long.

They too have lost the plot. Unfortunately, I fear wide spread violance when the cork pops in this saga.

Starting Monday night local time as the NY world markets re-open after Thanksgiving someone on here should create

a graph of two things 1) Amount of days airport closed VS decline in the Thai Bahts value.

Let the cannon fodder continue, they will anyway. Merry Christmas at 50 or more Baht vs USD. Ho! Ho! Ho1

The Thais can only blame themselves. Sanuk my arse!

Woow another very intelligent western view on things.....sigh. Anybody notice the short term vision hidden inside, and the typical western way of thinking which always has to do with money ?

No wonder you don't understand anything further than the borders of your, what must be an `amazing` home country.

Now what is it that made you leave that fantastic society ? What a waste of your time , and money ofcourse...

sad apologist - there is no excuse for what the PAD is doing and the governments failure to react properly .

[JetsetBkk]

Thanks for the link, BangkokBP. I thought it was very interesting - the Thais' spiritual and consensus values in their decision making vs. Westerners rational/consequential decision making.

[mahtin]

He was the first to speak up on their behalf and spend middle class tax money on the unwashed farmers.

My father-in-law washes.

Another cultural difference?

[venturalaw]

What I learned from this so far is Thai people in general are as stupid and incompetent as I always suspected they were/are and I'm somebody who has spent quite and bit of time here and invested substantial amount of money also.

Once this blows over I'm considering going back to USA where as bad as it is at least my kids will get a decent education and NEVER would the airports be allowed to be blocked by protesters

RANT OVER

What does your statement say about you? You chose to spend "quite (a) bit of time (in Thailand) and invested substantial amount of money . . " without respecting the venue or the people. It appears that you are rather foolish by your own account.

Have a safe trip home.

[Thaddeus]

<snip, multiple quotes deleted>

So what is the point - this article says nothing relative

Yes it does.

It gives an insight into the Thai psyche (not all of them)

If you built a hundred foot wall around Thailand, most Thais would not have problem, everyone knows their status and social standing, wais would be given when required etc etc

Unfortunately, it's a big old world out there, one that Thailand needs to deal with daily if it wants to progress..... and there is the impasse..... look beyond the article, don't just see the words.

Edited November 30, 2008 by Thaddeus

[lannarebirth]

<snip, multiple quotes deleted>

So what is the point - this article says nothing relative

Yes it does.

It gives an insight into the Thai psyche (not all of them)

If you built a hundred foot wall around Thailand, most Thais would not have problem, everyone knows their status and social standing, wais would be given when required etc etc

Unfortunately, it's a big old world out there, one that Thailand needs to deal with daily if it wants to progress..... and there is the impasse..... look beyond the article, don't just see the words.

http://www.thaihearttalk.info/aboutjai.htm