Wedding Cancelled: Should She Return The Gold?

[MeeFun]

Got engaged last year to a lovely educated Thai gal, let's call her Noi. I met her family up north and at the pre-engagement party (Thong Mun?) I gave Noi some nice 24ct gold (necklace w/amulet, bracelet and ring, all totaling to approx. $2000 USD). Our plans to marry progressed, but Noi was never keen on the idea of moving to the US. After a death in her family and getting a promotion at her bank job it's become clear over that last few months that the wedding is off. We are still friends, but I am wondering if I should ask for the gold back? What is the custom in this case? Since she was the one who backed out, it seems only fair that she should return the gold. Am I being a Cheap Charlie here? Should I just let it go? Thanks for any input.

[jdinasia]

Yes,

err I mean Yes you are being a cheap charlie. You gave her gifts you just don't ask for them back!

[wileycoyote]

Thai tradition ,if you part amicably 50% per cent each.

But you will need a Thai broker (friend,relation),known to both of you

Edited December 5, 2008 by wileycoyote

[JUDAS]

IMO you gave her a gift. No way I would even considering asking for it's return.

[0Mix1up]

she should offer it back

[easybullet3]

she should offer it back

yes!! I agree with this one!

if she offers it back, then you know she is a really nice person and it means in the future you can trust her as a good person.

if she doesnt offer it back, then maybe its a good idea the wedding is off!!

[imaneggspurt]

See if she offers it back, if not...wouldnt have been much of a wife anyway and consider you got off light ,.

[Shotime]

Now it's evident why she backed out of the marriage.

[MeeFun]

<br />Now it's evident why she backed out of the marriage.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

Nice burn Short-time, but (much like your mind) devoid of any useful information. In most western countries the engagement ring is considered a "conditional gift" and the guy gets it back if the wedding is cancelled. He is usually even legally entitled to it. I need to know what the Thai custom is regarding Thong Mun gold if the wedding is cancelled...

[kangeroo]

som nom na .

[patklang]

sorry about your problem but you are not in the west now.Because she is a lovely educated thai does this mean you can trust her,defo no,a thai woman with brains is more of a problem

[sbk]

My understanding from experience with Thai engagements is that if there is a formal engagement ceremony where gold is presented then if she chooses to back out of the engagement she should return the gold. However, if the engagement is cancelled because the man has another girlfriend or has been seeing other women then she is entitled to keep the gold.

This, at least, is how it generally works in Thai-Thai relationships. Obviously there are exceptions but it is my understanding this is the societal norm where I live.

[taxexile]

if this gift was specifically an engagement gift , then she should do the "decent thing" and at least offer to return the gold , unasked.

you could then either accept her offer or refuse to take the gold back.

as others have said , her actions will tell you a lot about her , and you may come to consider that you are better off not having been married to this girl.

[yogi]

if she wants to return it back,then take it.

but i dont think you should ask for return gifts.

take care

[skippybangkok]

Cheap Charlie if u asked for it back.

[MeeFun]

<br />Cheap Charlie if u asked for it back.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

Skip, I think you are right... I won't ask for it back and I doubt she will offer it (sentimental reasons?). I think I've been substituting losing her with the loss of the gold, closer to the heart and way more painful, especially since we are still friends. Guess it's time to move on, eh? Great input on this forum, thanks all!

[Chaimai]

If you were prepared to spend US$ 2,000 on someone you had known - I guess - for a relatively short period of time, then write it off to experience.

You weren't 'buying' a marriage with the gold, you gave it not expecting it to be returned and to ask for it back now would smack of sour grapes. Accept graciously if offered to you.

[skippybangkok]

<br />Cheap Charlie if u asked for it back.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

Skip, I think you are right... I won't ask for it back and I doubt she will offer it (sentimental reasons?). I think I've been substituting losing her with the loss of the gold, closer to the heart and way more painful, especially since we are still friends. Guess it's time to move on, eh? Great input on this forum, thanks all!

Cheers - just put it down to one of those life learning experiences. Imagine paying a sin sod (which some do ) , and then coming to the same point !......... u jus saved a ton !

[bangsaenguy]

sorry about your problem but you are not in the west now.Because she is a lovely educated thai does this mean you can trust her,defo no,a thai woman with brains is more of a problem

Why is a Thai woman with brains such a problem? Have you been outsmarted by one?

[Shotime]

<br />Now it's evident why she backed out of the marriage.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

Nice burn Short-time, but (much like your mind) devoid of any useful information. In most western countries the engagement ring is considered a "conditional gift" and the guy gets it back if the wedding is cancelled. He is usually even legally entitled to it. I need to know what the Thai custom is regarding Thong Mun gold if the wedding is cancelled...

I apologize. I am trying not to burn. I should have put it differently, and much more sympathetically.

You obviously have feelings for this woman, and, unbelievably, you're still friends. If you ask for the engagement presents back, she'll look at that as bad mojo. If you're are angry at the broken engagement, and I can understand that, I would try not to make things worse. $2,000 is, relatively, not a lot of money. As far as information, I can only see you hiring a lawyer. I would advise you to not ask her for the presents back, and treasure the moments you had with her. Thai customs is a subject I admit I don't know much about. In that respect, your right. I'm more familiar with the ones they make up as needed.

I don't see her offering to give them back to you, I don't know the woman, but, if she did, it would be out of pity. You might want to try making yourself pitiful. This is not a shot at you. I've done it myself many times, and it works pretty good.

Why the short time? You know me?

[thithi]

she should offer you back if she's an educated "nice" girl

unless you dnt want em back just let it go

[Patsycat]

I'll take it if no one else wants it!!

[Martian]

If it was given in the context of an engagement leading to marriage and YOU didn't do something to cause the "fall-out" than you should absolutely ask for it back. There's nothing wrong with standing your ground on "honorable" situations. All these people talking about looking like cheap charlie are prone to fall into the Thai controlling methods.

I would approach her respectfully, tell her the the facts and respectfully ask for the gold back. If she and her family are honorable, she will comply promptly without any fuss. If they are not, then you explain that you will be sure to let everyone around the village and maybe the local newspaper how you were treated by a dishonorable family. Again, don't listen to the naysayers who will reply with...yea, and find yourself in a ditch dead.....they've already fallen prone to the Thai control.

Be a man and pursue it politely but in a way they know you are serious. Hopefully it hasn't been hawked to buy the family a new TV, Fridge and cow.

Martian

[zzdocxx]

Maybe you could tell her you would like to have it to remember her by, and how would she feel about returning it to you?

[adjan jb]

Another one bites the dust.

[Shotime]

<br />Now it's evident why she backed out of the marriage.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

Nice burn Short-time, but (much like your mind) devoid of any useful information. In most western countries the engagement ring is considered a "conditional gift" and the guy gets it back if the wedding is cancelled. He is usually even legally entitled to it. I need to know what the Thai custom is regarding Thong Mun gold if the wedding is cancelled...

Well? What happened? How did you handle the situation? Be careful about taking advice from Martians. They're trying to control our minds too. Like the Thais. Did you take the American traditional approach and rip them off of her appendages?

[kanderson]

Som Nam na - that was great.

Each and every one of you guys better know at least this much Thai - as fast as possible.

It takes time - you can get there.

I can interprrt this - just let me know.

Not that it has anything to do with this post - but you need to understand this

Som Nam Na

Short interpretation - too bad for you.

[johnsurin]

Som nom na

Serves you right.

[oevna]

Som Nam na - that was great.

Each and every one of you guys better know at least this much Thai - as fast as possible.

It takes time - you can get there.

I can interprrt this - just let me know.

Not that it has anything to do with this post - but you need to understand this

Som Nam Na

Short interpretation - too bad for you.

I don't think that word means what you think it means.

And I don't think it applies to this situation. Why does this man deserve a bad result for buying his then-fiancee a gift?

[GangsterOfLove]

The only reason my deceitful, lying whore of a wife married me was for the gold, so I do not know where you went wrong. Go ahead and ask for it back champ, you've got nothing to lose.