Democrats To Form New Coalition Government

[DP25]

Read the Economist article or the International Herald Tribune article for a complete understanding of this thread. Unfortunately, discussion in depth is forbidden here.

The Economist has long given a free pass to Thaksin. In their world view the most important policy is the development of Capitalism. Being a promoter of free trade will go a long way to forgiving your police death squads from murdering thousands of innocent citizens without trial. If Hugo Chavez were to send out paramilitary death squads to execute people, the Economist would be having a fit.

[Ulysses G.]

1. I did not agree when PAD seized the airports. By doing that, they killed tourism. However, I did not like the way the Government was handling the situation either. We have a proxy-PM who obviously misunderstood the letters G-O-V-E-R-N in Government. Instead of action, we have re-action, and what was that? Telling on live TV a story about how the government has done this and that in the past! Touching a bit on Democracy and then.........nothing!

I can't believe you saying this. The question you should be asking is WHY did the army and police ... WHY they ignored a PM's directive? On whose orders did they feel embolden enough to do that?

How could the PM "govern" when the Army would not follow his orders?

[Bill97]

1. I did not agree when PAD seized the airports. By doing that, they killed tourism. However, I did not like the way the Government was handling the situation either. We have a proxy-PM who obviously misunderstood the letters G-O-V-E-R-N in Government. Instead of action, we have re-action, and what was that? Telling on live TV a story about how the government has done this and that in the past! Touching a bit on Democracy and then.........nothing!

I can't believe you saying this. The question you should be asking is WHY did the army and police ... WHY they ignored a PM's directive? On whose orders did they feel embolden enough to do that?

How could the PM "govern" when the Army would not follow his orders?

Isn't government is about compromise since nothing satisfies all? He certainly could have tried some alternatives and acted weeks or months sooner before it got to the airport.

[Sandstone Art]

Forget Abhisit, he's a draft dodger !

Just remember the screw up caused by the last "elected" draft dodger George W Bush.

Forget about George W Bush. He is from USA while Abhisit is from THIALAND!

Just remember the history during his administrations

[hammered]

I don't quite share the outrage shown by some at the prospect of the Democrats assuming power.If they manage to organise a majority then they have the right to form an administration.In any event we are where we are, rather like being several years into the Iraq war.We may not have liked how we got here but we have to make the best of it.Indeed there's no alternative.I think Abhisit tends to get a lot of unfair criticism and this is partly because he is the elite's candidate.He is of course not well liked in the N.E but if he can show in power that, unlike Thaksin, he is the PM for all Thais... then perhaps that perception can be turned round.Above all he is a highly educated man steeped in the values of liberal democracy, and I can see that he could heal the dreadful damage that has been done by all sides to Thailand's international reputation.There is a need for really clever people at the top to steer a course in the economic storms to come.He hasn't exactly distinguished himself in being outspoken about outrages in recent months but politics is the art of the possible (and let's be realistic he has to carry his core middle class constituency).So I hope he gets his chance.The one question in my mind is whether he posseses that pre-eminent virtue...courage.Politics is about leadership, not just blindly reflecting the views of of voters.

YH. I am with you there. If this can be sorted out through the elected body - parliament - then that is democracy. At some point parlaimentarians like everyone in the country have to decide do we work together or do we want war. This deos seem to be an attempt at the former.

[h90]

I don't quite share the outrage shown by some at the prospect of the Democrats assuming power.If they manage to organise a majority then they have the right to form an administration.In any event we are where we are, rather like being several years into the Iraq war.We may not have liked how we got here but we have to make the best of it.Indeed there's no alternative.I think Abhisit tends to get a lot of unfair criticism and this is partly because he is the elite's candidate.He is of course not well liked in the N.E but if he can show in power that, unlike Thaksin, he is the PM for all Thais... then perhaps that perception can be turned round.Above all he is a highly educated man steeped in the values of liberal democracy, and I can see that he could heal the dreadful damage that has been done by all sides to Thailand's international reputation.There is a need for really clever people at the top to steer a course in the economic storms to come.He hasn't exactly distinguished himself in being outspoken about outrages in recent months but politics is the art of the possible (and let's be realistic he has to carry his core middle class constituency).So I hope he gets his chance.The one question in my mind is whether he posseses that pre-eminent virtue...courage.Politics is about leadership, not just blindly reflecting the views of of voters.

I agree, but want to add that this kind of coalition + Thaksin trying to buy people out of it all the time, is a fight on four sides.

a) bringing the country forward

keeping the coalition together

c) avoid any silly doings from the coalition partners

d) if everything successful it must be positive transported the voters eyes.

not an simple task.

[jayjayjayjay]

Finally, I appreciate the suspicion that I am a farang due to my proficiency in English. Rest assured, Thailand do have Thais with proper education and work. Some of you might have been surprised though...considering most of the English-speaking Thais you have come across, might be @ Nana.

Well, you just proved your a farang, no decent, respected, business owner or well educated Thai persons I have engaged in conversation with over a 20 yr period have once mentioned Nana!

[otherstuff1957]

If the Democrats will be in power and have de PM, for how long can this goverment rule?

When do they have to call the next general elections?

(if they can rule without getting in any sort of trouble)

My guess, if the Dems get their man in the power seat, is the red shirts will demonstrate big time. And it won't be the relatively civil type of demonstration with thousands of people of all ages camped out at the airports. It will be street fighting mayhem - hundreds of paid young men with serious firepower.

It's up to Thaksin. If he feels that blood in the streets will serve his and his family's interests, then the bag lady (Poji) will be funding the red shirts. If his ego lets him back off until after the next elections, there will be peace in Thailand.

[hammered]

I don't quite share the outrage shown by some at the prospect of the Democrats assuming power.If they manage to organise a majority then they have the right to form an administration.In any event we are where we are, rather like being several years into the Iraq war.We may not have liked how we got here but we have to make the best of it.Indeed there's no alternative.I think Abhisit tends to get a lot of unfair criticism and this is partly because he is the elite's candidate.He is of course not well liked in the N.E but if he can show in power that, unlike Thaksin, he is the PM for all Thais... then perhaps that perception can be turned round.Above all he is a highly educated man steeped in the values of liberal democracy, and I can see that he could heal the dreadful damage that has been done by all sides to Thailand's international reputation.There is a need for really clever people at the top to steer a course in the economic storms to come.He hasn't exactly distinguished himself in being outspoken about outrages in recent months but politics is the art of the possible (and let's be realistic he has to carry his core middle class constituency).So I hope he gets his chance.The one question in my mind is whether he posseses that pre-eminent virtue...courage.Politics is about leadership, not just blindly reflecting the views of of voters.

I agree, but want to add that this kind of coalition + Thaksin trying to buy people out of it all the time, is a fight on four sides.

a) bringing the country forward

keeping the coalition together

c) avoid any silly doings from the coalition partners

d) if everything successful it must be positive transported the voters eyes.

not an simple task.

You are right it is a battle. As soon as the PM is selected even if by one vote he becomes PM and gets to set up a government. The next parlaimentary session is not until next year. With hundreds of MPs partyless right now, if you can get the PMship you are going to be in a good position to bring some on board and grow a bigger majority built as ever on slef interest but that is politics.

Senators today are putting a case to the court on the qualifications of the acting PM. It looks like the dissolution of parliament option is going to be removed or tied up in court. A decision against the PM will also knock out all the PPP and CT party list MPs making the number to govern even lower. It does look likely that a vote on PM will be soon but until the vote is in nothing is certain. The PTP claim to have 190 MPs. The Dems have over 160. If the senators case is upheld PTP lose another bunch of MPs too. It is close. Does anyone expect Thaksin to take this lying down?

[george]

Democrat Party seeks parliamentary session to elect new PM

BANGKOK: -- The Democrat Party has submitted names of MPs in the House of Representatives to the House Speaker to call an extraordinary session of Parliament to elect Thailand's new prime minister as soon as possible.

A party is required to gather names of at least one-third of all members of Parliament to formally call for an extraordinary session of Parliament to open. Upon receiving the petition the House Speaker must ask the King for a royal command to open Parliament.

The Democrat Party announced that it has secured the signatures of some 260 lawmakers from the 480-member lower house of Parliament and is prepare to form the next government.

Meanwhile, in the opposing camp, the Puea Thai Party, the new party set up recently to absorb the now banned People Power Party (PPP) legislators who have been forced to seek a new political umbrella, also claimed sufficient support as the core party in forming a new government.

Yongyuth Wichaidit, leader of the Puea Thai Party, expressed confidence that the party has enough seats to form a government and stressed that Thailand's new prime minister is likely to be a member of another coalition party as Puea Thai Party opened the opportunity to smaller coalition parties to propose the prime minister.

Meanwhile, acting Prime Minister Chavarat Charnveerakul is expected to discuss with the secretary-general of the Cabinet and legal experts as to whether the caretaker prime minisiter has the authority to dissolve Parliament.

In a clouded polical situation, the issue may be sent to Thailand's Constitution Court for interpretation, or discussed at the Cabinet meeting Tuesday with resolution of the uncertainty possibly being determined by factors such as which group of mechanism moves first in becoming the solution.

-- TNA 2008-12-08

[younghusband]

Finally, I appreciate the suspicion that I am a farang due to my proficiency in English. Rest assured, Thailand do have Thais with proper education and work. Some of you might have been surprised though...considering most of the English-speaking Thais you have come across, might be @ Nana.

Well, you just proved your a farang, no decent, respected, business owner or well educated Thai persons I have engaged in conversation with over a 20 yr period have once mentioned Nana!

There are many clues the cognoscenti will have picked up why this fellow is not who he says he is.I doubt whether he's alone on the forum in this regard.

Oddly enough, if the digression will be excused, in over thirty years here I have almost never seen a document, letter or presentation prepared by a Thai where there weren't several errors in the English.The only exception I can think of is where the individual spent their entire childhood, adolescence and student years in the West.There are a few of these around.Strangely on business trips I have met Chinese and Vietnamese with faultless English who have never left their countries.Beats me.

[hammered]

Democrat Party seeks parliamentary session to elect new PM

BANGKOK: -- The Democrat Party has submitted names of MPs in the House of Representatives to the House Speaker to call an extraordinary session of Parliament to elect Thailand's new prime minister as soon as possible.

A party is required to gather names of at least one-third of all members of Parliament to formally call for an extraordinary session of Parliament to open. Upon receiving the petition the House Speaker must ask the King for a royal command to open Parliament.

The Democrat Party announced that it has secured the signatures of some 260 lawmakers from the 480-member lower house of Parliament and is prepare to form the next government.

Meanwhile, in the opposing camp, the Puea Thai Party, the new party set up recently to absorb the now banned People Power Party (PPP) legislators who have been forced to seek a new political umbrella, also claimed sufficient support as the core party in forming a new government.

Yongyuth Wichaidit, leader of the Puea Thai Party, expressed confidence that the party has enough seats to form a government and stressed that Thailand's new prime minister is likely to be a member of another coalition party as Puea Thai Party opened the opportunity to smaller coalition parties to propose the prime minister.

Meanwhile, acting Prime Minister Chavarat Charnveerakul is expected to discuss with the secretary-general of the Cabinet and legal experts as to whether the caretaker prime minisiter has the authority to dissolve Parliament.

In a clouded polical situation, the issue may be sent to Thailand's Constitution Court for interpretation, or discussed at the Cabinet meeting Tuesday with resolution of the uncertainty possibly being determined by factors such as which group of mechanism moves first in becoming the solution.

-- TNA 2008-12-08

Considering it is Newin's Dad who gets to decide I guess the get it when they want it. Ole Newin is a sneaky one. the power of the speaker is so much and to slip his Dad in while ole Yuth "dooyen" was having trouble over bribig officals was a master stroke by the new eel of Thai politics.

[whatawonderfulday]

Finally, I appreciate the suspicion that I am a farang due to my proficiency in English. Rest assured, Thailand do have Thais with proper education and work. Some of you might have been surprised though...considering most of the English-speaking Thais you have come across, might be @ Nana.

Well, you just proved your a farang, no decent, respected, business owner or well educated Thai persons I have engaged in conversation with over a 20 yr period have once mentioned Nana!

There are many clues the cognoscenti will have picked up why this fellow is not who he says he is.I doubt whether he's alone on the forum in this regard.

Oddly enough, if the digression will be excused, in over thirty years here I have almost never seen a document, letter or presentation prepared by a Thai where there weren't several errors in the English.The only exception I can think of is where the individual spent their entire childhood, adolescence and student years in the West.There are a few of these around.Strangely on business trips I have met Chinese and Vietnamese with faultless English who have never left their countries.Beats me.

Off topic but it is obvious, The Chinese and Vietnamese teach English, not American-English

Edited December 8, 2008 by whatawonderfulday

[jayjayjayjay]

I don't quite share the outrage shown by some at the prospect of the Democrats assuming power.If they manage to organise a majority then they have the right to form an administration.In any event we are where we are, rather like being several years into the Iraq war.We may not have liked how we got here but we have to make the best of it.Indeed there's no alternative.I think Abhisit tends to get a lot of unfair criticism and this is partly because he is the elite's candidate.He is of course not well liked in the N.E but if he can show in power that, unlike Thaksin, he is the PM for all Thais... then perhaps that perception can be turned round.Above all he is a highly educated man steeped in the values of liberal democracy, and I can see that he could heal the dreadful damage that has been done by all sides to Thailand's international reputation.There is a need for really clever people at the top to steer a course in the economic storms to come.He hasn't exactly distinguished himself in being outspoken about outrages in recent months but politics is the art of the possible (and let's be realistic he has to carry his core middle class constituency).So I hope he gets his chance.The one question in my mind is whether he posseses that pre-eminent virtue...courage.Politics is about leadership, not just blindly reflecting the views of of voters.

Agreed, but ulitmately he is more of a politician than Taksin ever was. Taksin was creating growth that benefited all, all be it too many family members appeared to be feeding at the trough! Abhisit will play a better political game, but the eventually looser is Thailand unless he can learn how to run the country, ie CEO! What has he achieved to date? I for one do support a government to can rule with a majority of elected MP's, good luck Abhisit.

[sriracha john]

The Democrat Party announced that it has secured the signatures of some 260 lawmakers from the 480-member lower house of Parliament and is prepare to form the next government.

Meanwhile, in the opposing camp, the Puea Thai Party, the new party set up recently to absorb the now banned People Power Party (PPP) legislators who have been forced to seek a new political umbrella, also claimed sufficient support as the core party in forming a new government.

Puea Thai Party holds 226 MPs

The Puea Thai Party expresses confidence that the latest 226 MPs are sufficient to form the new government; however, the individual to be promoted as the 27th prime minister remains unclear.

Puea Thai Party's Chiang Mai MP Surapong Tovijakchaikul unveiled, after the party's 4th special meeting, that its executives have discussed about the government formation procedures and reiterated that the new premier would not need to come from the Puea Thai Party.

Surapong disclosed today that the latest 226 MPs comprised 202 Puea Thai MPs, 5 Pracharaj MPs, 5 Chart Thai Pattana MPs, and 14 Puea Pandin MPs. However, the Ruam Jai Chart Pattana Party and the Bhumjaithai Party still remained undecided while the Newin’s Friend faction was also reportedly present at the meeting with the exception of 12 MPs.

On the other hand, Surapong affirmed that the party has expressed no concerns over the military’s rumored involvement in the government formation.

- ThaiNews / 2008-12-07

[sriracha john]

260 + 226 = 486

480 MP's in Parliament....

[hammered]

Finally, I appreciate the suspicion that I am a farang due to my proficiency in English. Rest assured, Thailand do have Thais with proper education and work. Some of you might have been surprised though...considering most of the English-speaking Thais you have come across, might be @ Nana.

Well, you just proved your a farang, no decent, respected, business owner or well educated Thai persons I have engaged in conversation with over a 20 yr period have once mentioned Nana!

There are many clues the cognoscenti will have picked up why this fellow is not who he says he is.I doubt whether he's alone on the forum in this regard.

Oddly enough, if the digression will be excused, in over thirty years here I have almost never seen a document, letter or presentation prepared by a Thai where there weren't several errors in the English.The only exception I can think of is where the individual spent their entire childhood, adolescence and student years in the West.There are a few of these around.Strangely on business trips I have met Chinese and Vietnamese with faultless English who have never left their countries.Beats me.

Oddly enough YH most of my posts on here are utterly full of typos and errors both grammatical and spelling and yet I hail from an English speaking country and most of my friends regard me as not being overly brain dead. Maybe some of us have stayed in Thailand too long or should have chosen other lands in which to live as guests.

Digressing as we await the formation of the new frankenstein coaliton to quote Thai Crisis or maybe the failure to form....

[hammered]

260 + 226 = 486

480 MP's in Parliament....

At the moment there are reportedly only 447 MPs in parliament too. Someone is telling porkies or some have a foot in both camps.

224 = PMship.

[sriracha john]

Puea Thai Party's Chiang Mai MP Surapong disclosed today that the latest 226 MPs comprised 202 Puea Thai MPs, 5 Pracharaj MPs, 5 Chart Thai Pattana MPs, and 14 Puea Pandin MPs. However, the Ruam Jai Chart Pattana Party and the Bhumjaithai Party still remained undecided while the Newin’s Friend faction was also reportedly present at the meeting with the exception of 12 MPs.

A faction within a faction...

Edited December 8, 2008 by sriracha john

[jayjayjayjay]

Democrat Party seeks parliamentary session to elect new PM

BANGKOK: -- The Democrat Party has submitted names of MPs in the House of Representatives to the House Speaker to call an extraordinary session of Parliament to elect Thailand's new prime minister as soon as possible.

snip

In a clouded polical situation, the issue may be sent to Thailand's Constitution Court for interpretation, or discussed at the Cabinet meeting Tuesday with resolution of the uncertainty possibly being determined by factors such as which group of mechanism moves first in becoming the solution.

-- TNA 2008-12-08

Considering it is Newin's Dad who gets to decide I guess the get it when they want it. Ole Newin is a sneaky one. the power of the speaker is so much and to slip his Dad in while ole Yuth "dooyen" was having trouble over bribig officals was a master stroke by the new eel of Thai politics.

your bed fellow eel we might remind you..........!

Question: how many MP by (buy) elections will be required due to the courts dismissal of parties?

Edited December 8, 2008 by jayjayjayjay

[h90]

Finally, I appreciate the suspicion that I am a farang due to my proficiency in English. Rest assured, Thailand do have Thais with proper education and work. Some of you might have been surprised though...considering most of the English-speaking Thais you have come across, might be @ Nana.

Well, you just proved your a farang, no decent, respected, business owner or well educated Thai persons I have engaged in conversation with over a 20 yr period have once mentioned Nana!

First and only time I agree with you jayjayjayjay.

99% sure Farang Troll not Thai.

[permanent_disorder]

The Economist has long given a free pass to Thaksin. In their world view the most important policy is the development of Capitalism. Being a promoter of free trade will go a long way to forgiving your police death squads from murdering thousands of innocent citizens without trial. If Hugo Chavez were to send out paramilitary death squads to execute people, the Economist would be having a fit.

that is not true. in The Economist you could read about the war on drugs, the killings in the south. happend during a time where Thaksin and Chamlong or Thaksin and Sondhi have been best friends.

and whats wrong with capitalism? capitalism is beautiful!

[DP25]

Taksin was creating growth that benefited all

Thaksin didn't 'create' any growth, he was simply the PM at a time of enormous global economic growth. It's no surprise a country that relies almost entirely on exports will benefit. Similarly, the Dems could very well take the blame if they are able to form a government now, because of the economic downfall that has effected the entire world.

[hammered]

Democrat Party seeks parliamentary session to elect new PM

BANGKOK: -- The Democrat Party has submitted names of MPs in the House of Representatives to the House Speaker to call an extraordinary session of Parliament to elect Thailand's new prime minister as soon as possible.

snip

In a clouded polical situation, the issue may be sent to Thailand's Constitution Court for interpretation, or discussed at the Cabinet meeting Tuesday with resolution of the uncertainty possibly being determined by factors such as which group of mechanism moves first in becoming the solution.

-- TNA 2008-12-08

Considering it is Newin's Dad who gets to decide I guess the get it when they want it. Ole Newin is a sneaky one. the power of the speaker is so much and to slip his Dad in while ole Yuth "dooyen" was having trouble over bribig officals was a master stroke by the new eel of Thai politics.

your bed fellow eel we might remind you..........!

Question: how many MP by (buy) elections will be required due to the courts dismissal of parties?

I dont have a horse in this race to be honest.

[younghusband]

Oddly enough YH most of my posts on here are utterly full of typos and errors both grammatical and spelling and yet I hail from an English speaking country and most of my friends regard me as not being overly brain dead. Maybe some of us have stayed in Thailand too long or should have chosen other lands in which to live as guests.

Digressing as we await the formation of the new frankenstein coaliton to quote Thai Crisis or maybe the failure to form....

And I am also far from infallible.I still have to agonise before spelling the word "unnecessary".

But my point on our self proclaimed well connected "Thai" poster was rather different.I was thinking of several cultural clues why he's unlikely to be what he says he is.

[DP25]

that is not true. in The Economist you could read about the war on drugs, the killings in the south.

I know that The Economist has reported on the mass murder of innocent Thai civilians on occasion. The fact that they can continue to support Thaksin despite this is horrific. If Thaksin were a socialist like Hugo Chavez their opinion would be quite different. And I'm not a Communist, it's possible to be against corruption and police death squads while at the same time being in favour of capitalism.

[animatic]

Q. how can an opposition party form a (coalition) government WITHOUT an electorate mandate?

Ditto it seems to me or am i missing something ?????????????

The PPP formed a government with a very similar amount of votes and had to form a coalition to do so, courtesy of the much talked about monetary incentives that are now being thrown in the opposite direction.

The important difference being that this time Thaksin will not be the ghost PM running a sorrogate TRT party / ies

It will be interesting to see what the fat lady does, should the new coalition become reality.

A swift return to the outside world would seem to be on the cards as and when her appeal is heard or the outcome announced.............. IMHO

marshbags

This pretty much gets to the heart of the matter.

No Thakasin clones.

If coalition leading party can't make a government the next group can try.

PPP doesn't exist.

It's MP's are not in a party that contested an election.

The Dems are a party that contested the last election.

Thus they have the right to form a government if they can.

Seems they can, but not a good time for them,

similar to Obama's good times to come.

[Samuian]

some very, very troubled times ahead!

Pheu Thai in desperate bid for power

...........edited....Pheu Thai has vowed revenge and said it would challenge the Democrat-led government's legitimacy in every way.

"It would be tit-for-tat and could be more severe," he said.

A party source said plans to destroy the credibility of many institutions such as the justice system had been laid out. Protests like those staged by the People's Alliance for Democracy would be planned. Demonstrators would work closely with the red-shirted pro-PPP government group.....edited....

from today's "The Nation"

If we can't get there one way, we will try it the other way... "Uncle Takky" won't stop, unless he is stopped.

[hammered]

that is not true. in The Economist you could read about the war on drugs, the killings in the south.

I know that The Economist has reported on the mass murder of innocent Thai civilians on occasion. The fact that they can continue to support Thaksin despite this is horrific. If Thaksin were a socialist like Hugo Chavez their opinion would be quite different. And I'm not a Communist, it's possible to be against corruption and police death squads while at the same time being in favour of capitalism.

The corporate leaders mantra of free trade, globalisation and entertainment still rings strong even as economies collapse. If you are on the side of it, then your excesses can be excused whatever they are. If you are not onside with it, well that is a different matter.

[sriracha john]

Puea Thai Party branch leader says Democrat Party has no political propriety

Leader of the Bangkok branch of the Puea Thai Party (PTP) Wichan Meenchainant indicated that the Democrat Party has illustrated a lack of political propriety in its move to establish a new government, affirming that the Puea Thai Party also has enough members to secure an administration.

Interim Minister of Public Health and core figure of PTP Wichan Meenchainant criticized the Democrat Party's action to form a new administration, saying that the action is against political etiquette as the usual practice is to allow the previous government some leeway in reforming.

He stated that despite the dissolution of three coalition parties, the remaining Parties and Puea Thai still hold a sizeable amount of MPs.

Wichan was adamant in stating that remnants of the coalition government are still holding fast and that they still pose as a viable group to take the administration.

- ThaiNews / 2008-12-08