Pattaya Real Estate Woes Or Worries

[APMann]

The market looks terrible, but do any TV-ers have any worries or tales or anxieties they would like to share, or concerns they would like to air (without naming names if that gets us closed down - or Mods can edit sensibly).

I think we need a thread for disgruntled/worried/interested buyers - or even happy buyers - to post on, given how important the real estate market is in Pattaya.

I rent, and have done for the past 7 years, so I have no vested interest except a prurient interest in the direction of the real estate market in Pattaya.

Edited December 8, 2008 by APMann

[dickie58]

The market looks terrible, but do any TV-ers have any worries or tales or anxieties they would like to share, or concerns they would like to air (without naming names if that gets us closed down - or Mods can edit sensibly).

I think we need a thread for disgruntled/worried/interested buyers - or even happy buyers - to post on, given how important the real estate market is in Pattaya.

I rent, and have done for the past 7 years, so I have no vested interest except a prurient interest in the direction of the real estate market in Pattaya.

I am in involved in the project managment of resedential houses in Pattaya, at the moment we are compleley dead, not even getting any enquiries.

Spoken to some of my builders very recently Farang & Thai & they are all in the same boat

Some of the real estate companies are also saying things are very quite.

Hopefully things will improve in the New Year?

[Humphrey Bear]

I am in involved in the project managment of resedential houses in Pattaya, at the moment we are compleley dead, not even getting any enquiries.

Spoken to some of my builders very recently Farang & Thai & they are all in the same boat

Some of the real estate companies are also saying things are very quite.

Hopefully things will improve in the New Year?

Off topic - but do you have contact numbers for recommended local trades - plumbing, electrical, carpentry and so on?

[MeetJohnDoe]

I don't have any concerns as to the real property market in Patters...and I am both a renter of a house and an owner of another. I have a very reasonable and fair rent for the house I rent and I got a good deal on the house I bought a couple years ago. For a while, even though the house did not increase in value, due to the baht's appreciation against the US$, I made 15-20% (even with no price appreciation).

I think one mistake many ferengs make with real property in Thailand vs. Ferengland is treating it as an investment and not as a utility purchase. Property should be thought of as a place to live in and not as some speculative investment. Houses are not made that well here and there is plenty of empty land in most areas so basically, the cost/value of houses is basically construction cost. There is no reason for prices to appreciate very much.

[torrenova]

Some people are going to have to be far more realistic with their valuations in order to start to shift property in this climate. But that goes all the way back to a fair land value and if companies have land stock on their books at way over today's value then they are going to be reluctant to move it at today's figures.

Some business and condo prices I looked at recently would not be out of place in a fairy tale !

[DonTron]

Property should be thought of as a place to live in and not as some speculative investment

Heheh its clear that you are not an investor - some of us have made a lot of money investing in properties here in Pattaya - the past 4-5 years the market have been really good.

Honestly I’m getting a bit tired of all this "crisis" talk. Everybody is whining about how hard the marked is and that nothing is moving etc. but if thats the case where are all the cheap properties? Currently in US and Europe. us investors profit greatly from being able to buy properties really cheap (sometimes 60-70% below market value) and then selling them again when the marked is high.

The Pattaya property prices are still very high and some of them even growing. I been following the Bangkok marked where some projects have started to lower the prices, but I am still waiting for the Pattaya prices to drop, which they haven’t. And if anyone hear about projects or people who lower their prices, then please contact me.

- DonTron

"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough"

Edited December 9, 2008 by DonTron

[Jingthing]

I own. While the ASKING listed prices don't seem to have fallen much, I would not like to have to SELL in this market. It is clearly slow and understandably so. If you really want something to LIVE IN and plan to hold for the long term, at least 10 years, it might be a good time to try to drive a hard bargain. (Don't believe the asking prices in this market.)

[MeetJohnDoe]

If you really want something to LIVE IN and plan to hold for the long term, at least 10 years, it might be a good time to try to drive a hard bargain.

The key is just not to chase the market and overpay for property. When buying, just keep basic value metrics in mind...one easy one is the price to buy should be around 150x the monthly rent a property would command. There are more sophisticated formulas that take in many different variables but the above is a good place to start.

[midas]

Property should be thought of as a place to live in and not as some speculative investment

Heheh its clear that you are not an investor - some of us have made a lot of money investing in properties here in Pattaya - the past 4-5 years the market have been really good.

Honestly I’m getting a bit tired of all this "crisis" talk. Everybody is whining about how hard the marked is and that nothing is moving etc. but if thats the case where are all the cheap properties? Currently in US and Europe. us investors profit greatly from being able to buy properties really cheap (sometimes 60-70% below market value) and then selling them again when the marked is high.

The Pattaya property prices are still very high and some of them even growing. I been following the Bangkok marked where some projects have started to lower the prices, but I am still waiting for the Pattaya prices to drop, which they haven’t. And if anyone hear about projects or people who lower their prices, then please contact me.

- DonTron

"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough"

Well i sincerely hope you are not expecting the next 4-5 years to be just as good

because whay are all the estate agents in Pattaya saying it is dead out there ?

[misterman21]

Property should be thought of as a place to live in and not as some speculative investment

Heheh its clear that you are not an investor - some of us have made a lot of money investing in properties here in Pattaya - the past 4-5 years the market have been really good.

Honestly I'm getting a bit tired of all this "crisis" talk. Everybody is whining about how hard the marked is and that nothing is moving etc. but if thats the case where are all the cheap properties? Currently in US and Europe. us investors profit greatly from being able to buy properties really cheap (sometimes 60-70% below market value) and then selling them again when the marked is high.

The Pattaya property prices are still very high and some of them even growing. I been following the Bangkok marked where some projects have started to lower the prices, but I am still waiting for the Pattaya prices to drop, which they haven't. And if anyone hear about projects or people who lower their prices, then please contact me.

- DonTron

"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough"

I could let you have details of lots of people dropping their prices by 30 to 40% - but I won't as I think your obviously living in dreamland and i don't know where that is!

Do you think that world depression - and most curriencies currently down 30% on the baht don't/aren't having an affect. Come out of the rabbit hole Hehehe!

Edited December 9, 2008 by misterman21

[Scabo]

Iam down in Phuket at the momment catching up with the inlaws.

I was speaking to a real estate agent in Jungceylon. He was saying

that "they do not expect any real downturn in Phuket".

I asked him if he read the part in the papers that are saying tourism

is down up to 15%, and those figures were taken before the recent

Bangkok disturbance.

Suprised the hel_l out of me. I said "I will be back in Febuary see if you say

the same thing then."

[misterman21]

Iam down in Phuket at the momment catching up with the inlaws.

I was speaking to a real estate agent in Jungceylon. He was saying

that "they do not expect any real downturn in Phuket".

I asked him if he read the part in the papers that are saying tourism

is down up to 15%, and those figures were taken before the recent

Bangkok disturbance.

Suprised the hel_l out of me. I said "I will be back in Febuary see if you say

the same thing then."

So the Real Estate agent said he didn't expect any downturn Infact there has never been a better time to buy Infact buy now before its too late

[imaneggspurt]

I don't have any concerns as to the real property market in Patters...and I am both a renter of a house and an owner of another. I have a very reasonable and fair rent for the house I rent and I got a good deal on the house I bought a couple years ago. For a while, even though the house did not increase in value, due to the baht's appreciation against the US$, I made 15-20% (even with no price appreciation).

I think one mistake many ferengs make with real property in Thailand vs. Ferengland is treating it as an investment and not as a utility purchase. Property should be thought of as a place to live in and not as some speculative investment. Houses are not made that well here and there is plenty of empty land in most areas so basically, the cost/value of houses is basically construction cost. There is no reason for prices to appreciate very much.

Absolutly correct,but of course other owners wont be so honest i feel,.we will hear from a few that have made a fortune, but there are more that dont,. its not all because of poor choice of location, i think its a terrible place to invest in property,.and most are falling down after 20 years or less,i for one wont be buying again for the foreseeable future, there will always be the business types that wil invest and do well but for the man in the street the thai property market as in investment is a loser,.

[Jingthing]

the man in the street the thai property market as in investment is a loser,.

I like not having a landlord and happy to have a stable place to live in. However, I hadn't figured the market would become as illiquid it is at present, so if I had to sell, it wouldn't be pretty. To put this in some perspective, most every investment of any kind all over the world has gone down this year.

[suiging]

Exactly. The whole world is in turmoil so Patters will be no different. Long term, who knows ? If Thailand gets back on its feet with some form of political stability the economic fundamentals of the Eastern Sea Board are quite bright. Educated work force ( don't scoff it's true in comparative terms ) roads to and from industry to ports and the capital............I remain a cautious optimist for the future.

[Guderian]

A friend of mine has a small studio in one of the nicer condos in Pratumnak. For various reasons he wants to sell, but although his place has been on the market for almost 6 months he has not had a single reasonable offer. The Thais supposedly aren't interested in second-hand properties (too many ghosts?), while farangs also seem to prefer new build places, even if the cost per sqm is twice as much.

[MeetJohnDoe]

I was speaking to a real estate agent in Jungceylon. He was saying

that "they do not expect any real downturn in Phuket".

An interesting letter in today's Post, responding to Cornick's latest Post Phuket property puff-piece, also begs to differ. The letter writer, who is an investor in a couple Phuket condos, says the market is terrible (like that is news to any sentient fereng)...both no buyers and over-saturated with unites for rent/sale.

[APMann]

I was speaking to a real estate agent in Jungceylon. He was saying

that "they do not expect any real downturn in Phuket".

An interesting letter in today's Post, responding to Cornick's latest Post Phuket property puff-piece, also begs to differ. The letter writer, who is an investor in a couple Phuket condos, says the market is terrible (like that is news to any sentient fereng)...both no buyers and over-saturated with unites for rent/sale.

I also read that and thought you could just substitute Pattaya for Phuket, although the oversupply problem might not get too bad in Pattaya as the big schemes slowly go bust and don't get built!

Anyway, Raimon Land don't see too negative, as they are always giving their money away - parties, promos, ADVERTISING, women's organisations (600,000 baht recently) a "sanuk Centre" for kids. They should stop pissing their investors' money away and focus on defensive strategies for the downturn and toughening market conditions. They can't expect their Dubai investors to help them out with the state of the Dubai right now.

[foxxx]

a lot of the property was overpriced to start with. pricing for westerners with money rather then what the local market is actually worth. i even think the 'normal market' price here has been fictional for a long time, forgetting that overpriced western stuff, just the base market rate is a bit over the top.

your property isn't in a great position, you have shitty facilities, bad plumbing, bad surroundings, high crime, very little police or rescue service extremely poor construction (sure the rendering on top looks fine, but under it's a mess) and what not, the land is cheap and construction cheaper, how they are pricing some of these basic homes at 12m+ is amazing. especially since they are so far inland the land is almost free and building wages cost them almost nothing.

which i guess furthers the point that people just buy new not 2nd hand, its cheaper at build your own house then buy someone else's at an increased price that's speculative at the best of times.

i'm sure there's great buys around that could be worthy of investment, renovation and sell, but it's just as easy to buy land and build your own, just as you want it.

all depends on what you want and how much you have to spend i guess.

i'm interested in buying at the moment, i think there's lots of overpriced places around, not interested in an apartment in the slightest.

Edited December 10, 2008 by foxxx

[DonTron]

I could let you have details of lots of people dropping their prices by 30 to 40% - but I won't as I think your obviously living in dreamland and i don't know where that is!

Do you think that world depression - and most curriencies currently down 30% on the baht don't/aren't having an affect. Come out of the rabbit hole Hehehe!

Hi misterman21, if you know of anyone dropping their condos/houses by 30-40% then please let me know. You can write me a private message to keep it confidential. I would even be willing to give you a cut if you have access to really great deals.

About dreamland, when I buy a condo for 9,3 mill and 10 months later sell it for 14,2 mill then I really feel that this IS wonderland, and I love this rabbithole