Pad Announcement 29/2008: Conditions For New Government

[Xangsamhua]

Oh but don't forget Thaksin sold the country out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm still trying to work this one out! His family sold their publicly held shares in a company his family controlled MAKING Thailand a net gain of $2 billion USD which would have been spent here increasing the GDP of Thailand, BUT because of PAD he took at least a part of shore! Now the country wants to nationalise the money from that sale. This is worst than what Vietnam did to a close friend of mine when they nationalised his "down" and pillow making business in the mid 70's!

It's not just about the Temasek sale, JJJJ. From the time he decided to get into politics in the 90s, Thaksin's whole political creed was based on the idea that what was good for his business was good for Thailand. In power he extended that to the idea that what was good for his friend's (big) businesses was also good for Thailand. The next thing was to ensure that his family, friends and Cadet School classmates were catapulted into positions of influence in the military, police, government and so on.

Furthermore, he seemed to have no awareness of the concept of conflict of interest and would get upset when he was criticized for fairly obvious cases of nepotism and self-aggrandizement. In that sense he was very much the old-style politician-cum-godfather.

He also had very little idea of civil society or the possibility that individuals or groups may oppose him out of genuine concern for the common good. Like the old paternalists from way back he regarded the "people" as wanting good government (i.e. law and order and a booming economy) without any thought that they may also want honest government, justice and some freedom of expression.

Thaksin saw Thailand as "Thailand Company" (his and Somkid's term), or "Thailand Inc", basically as an extension of the fortunes of his own businesses and those of his friends. He did not see Thailand as a civic society. He regarded the Thai people as suppliers of labour and consumers, not as citizens. He did not believe the media should be allowed to investigae and report freely. As he came increasingly under fire in 2005 and 2006 he more frequently responded to reporters with the words "You don't need to ask", "This is a matter for the Phuyai", and so on.

Thaksin is a tragic figure. He is a man of considerable lateral and creative thinking ability, who was able to win friends in high places, hence generating the breaks he needed in business. However, he seems to lack even basic ethical notions of honesty, truthfulness and lawful process. He has one ethical platform, and that is loyalty. He has been loyal to his family, friends and close associates and many of them have stood by him. His tragedy comes from the fact that he has no other moral principles and no vision for the country other than material prosperity on the coattails of his own and other big business. I can't see any future for him other than one of conflict and confrontation. If allowed back into a position of power many people - indeed the whole country - would suffer.

[yumidesign]

What is unreasonable is that a self appointed vigilante group is able to make these demands....

The "demands" are most basic, most of them are right there in the constution and related laws.

What is sad, as I said already, is that they need to be spelled out publicly and officially.

Actually it's any citizen's right to demand the government to perform it's duties. Call them vigilantes or not.

What exactly do you find unreasonable there?

At last someone with a brain making sense of this item. I have read in disbelief at nearly all of the ignorant posts so far.

All of the demands of the PAD are totally reasonable. Desperate times call for desperate measures. The PAD are acting accordingly risking their lives for the good of the people. They are just a group of like minded people trying to stop the country going back to the rule of a convicted criminal

[BigSnake]

Let the GAME begin. PAD want to play HARD BALL yet again.

[hammered]

Well it looks like the PAd are not going to be overly impressed with the Demo government providing they manage to outvote ole sick note Pracha. No surprise there.

[johnwills]

Anybody read the banned Economist article from the 6th December? Made for some interesting reading, I can see why Thailand banned that particular issue, they wouldn't want to start dispelling the myths they have created.

[Koo82]

its time to secure the airports and the seaport.

Relax. Never the seaport. PAD will get bombs and gun shots they can't handle. They had to move out from Government House because of this reason.

[Gnarpjohan]

I wholly agree with the PAD. This is a stand against corruption. If this doesn't work, there will never be an end to corruption in Thailand!

There is plenty of corruption in Thailand. To believe that corruption began and ended with Thaksin, and that PAD represents anti-corruption is amazingly naive. Thaksin was not ousted because of corruption, but because he challenged the power structures that PAD support. He had the nerve to appeal to the rural masses and did so very successfully, which unsettled the old power structures deeply - "we got to kick this guy out before he kicks us out". Response: sweeping accusations of "corruption" and lese-majeste.

The PAD represents a good chunk of the really sickening corruption of Thailand: privileged folks with no respect for basic democratic principles. Protecting what they have, screw the rest.

edit: spelling

Edited December 13, 2008 by Gnarpjohan

[Pierrot]

One of the main argument of PAD supporters is that PAD breaks the law to actually have it respected.

With some friends we were watching one of this law show on TV earlier this afternoon (Sunday afternoon ….) the story was revolving around the argument that a cop killer may walk free because evidences against him was obtained illegally. When talking about it, we came to the conclusion that the main reasoning behind this decision was that the long term advantages of respecting the law are by far superior to the short term gains that may be obtained by breaking it. And then a bit later we thought it was also a brilliant way to explain why most western lawmakers oppose the PAD.

[JiveTalker]

Unless the new government stand up to these PAD nutcases I really do fear for the future of this country.

They will do so much more damage than Thaksin ever did. Worrying times.

[JacknDanny]

All you democracy loving, peace loving, "our western culture is best", farangs who are foaming at the mouth over the PAD demands should do well to bear in mind the following:

If the PAD had not come into being and taken extreme measure to make their voice heard, Thailand today would still be ruled and controlled by Thaksin and his evil cronies, who did their best to stifle all discontent and protesters, control all media, and rape and pillage this country dry. That is to say nothing of the thousands of innocent people who have been murdered and/ or disappeared during the Thaksin years, many – like the Southern lawyer, Somchai, who were trying to protect human rights, or protesting against injustices and against illegal activities of Thaksin controlled corporations.

Without the PAD's intervention, these crimes would have gone on, and probably got worse and worse until Thailand was truly a police, fascist state, firmly in the grip of the megalomaniac Thaksin

If the PAD had not resorted to 'extreme' measures, and had just meekly protested within the law, nothing would have changed, and they would have been swept away with the rest of the unfortunates who dared to challenge Thaksin – or jailed under monstrous defamation suits.

As Plus says, there is nothing in the PAD 'demands' which are unreasonable, and nobody knows better than the PAD that the proposed Democrat led coalition is far from a done deal, and I for one totally applaud the pressure the PAD are continuing to put on the various entities to ensure the right outcome.

Get real; - this isn't a democracy – it won't be for many years – but the PAD are fighting for the survival of the country.

I don't condone the violence – but sometimes there is no other way, and IMHO it is far the lesser of the two evils.

Flame away guys.

Excellent post Mobi.

Problem is most of these PAD bashers are people who really do not understand Thailand/ not living in Thailand/ living in Isaan where the Thaksin influence has been indoctrinated into them for the past few years

[JacknDanny]

Anybody read the banned Economist article from the 6th December? Made for some interesting reading, I can see why Thailand banned that particular issue, they wouldn't want to start dispelling the myths they have created.

Written by Thaksins PR man

Total paranoid nonsense.

[cmsally]

Anybody read the banned Economist article from the 6th December? Made for some interesting reading, I can see why Thailand banned that particular issue, they wouldn't want to start dispelling the myths they have created.

Written by Thaksins PR man

Total paranoid nonsense.

Again I find it strange that a foreigner is condoning the lack of free speech here. To suggest that any view that doesn't fit in with the PAD vision of things , has to be written by a Thaksin PR man is ridiculous.

Just sit back a minute and think, would you be happy if you were not able to discuss the politics of your home country freely.

Just remember truth is often stranger than fiction, and in many aspects of this upheaval I think you will find that this is the case.

[Koo82]

PAD co-leader Chamlong Srimuang dismissed the speculation about forming a political party

http://nationmultimedia.com/2008/12/13/pol...cs_30090864.php

No need one more party because part of PAD is Democrat Party.

PAD co-leader Somkiart Pongpaiboon is a member (Sor Sor in Thai) in Democrat Party. There are some more members but I don't have names to list here.

[Koo82]

Unfortunately, in this democracy , the primary statements may not be discussed.

Thanks for posting. I just love it.

Democracy! Can you hear me?

[SomNamNah]

Get real; - this isn't a democracy – it won't be for many years – but the PAD are fighting for the survival of the country.

Very easy. let it be. Was doing just fine...the Asian tiger... meeeoow. Now its the Asian rabid dog pissing on the lamppost of democracy. Thank goodness the Chinese here are smart enough to keep this place ticking over.

Edited December 13, 2008 by SomNamNah

[Koo82]

I admire the anti PAD people for there concern about democracy. But I do wonder if tomorrow the red shirt people start to demonstrate against the government and rioting in the streets of Bangkok what there reaction wil be.

And what they think about the 10 000 Thaksin suporters in Udon who calls themselves Vigilantes, saying that they will march to the capital.

Are they scum, terrorists or defenders of democracy.

Not yet. Don't imagine what they might do. Things are not happening yet, until this moment, 5pm, 13 Dec. We have to talk about the facts, not imagination.

They have met 3 big times in BKK. After the 2 events, they went home with no fighting. They had extra meetings on 30 Nov, 1 to 3 Dec but there was no fighting at all.

PAD's biggest "concern about democracy" is not letting everyone vote.

[JacknDanny]

Get real; - this isn't a democracy – it won't be for many years – but the PAD are fighting for the survival of the country.

Very easy. let it be. Was doing just fine...the Asian tiger... meeeoow. Now its the Asian rabid dog pissing on the lamppost of democracy. Thank goodness the Chinese here are smart enough to keep this place ticking over.

Please edit your post. You are attributing a statement to me. I didnt make it. You obviously screwed up on your posting

[Scott]

I saw the latest article in the magazine previously mentioned. It explains a great deal and it makes sense. About 1/2 the posts here could be answered if it were available for reading.

[Wiresok]

What is unreasonable is that a self appointed vigilante group is able to make these demands....

The "demands" are most basic, most of them are right there in the constution and related laws.

What is sad, as I said already, is that they need to be spelled out publicly and officially.

Actually it's any citizen's right to demand the government to perform it's duties. Call them vigilantes or not.

What exactly do you find unreasonable there?

At last someone with a brain making sense of this item. I have read in disbelief at nearly all of the ignorant posts so far.

All of the demands of the PAD are totally reasonable. Desperate times call for desperate measures. The PAD are acting accordingly risking their lives for the good of the people. They are just a group of like minded people trying to stop the country going back to the rule of a convicted criminal

so the citizens have the right to demand the democratically elected govenrment be allowed to go about its business.

[ALFREDO]

-MOBI-

Well written and my thoughts to.

I am an Austrian and usualy involved in the much smalle www.tip-forum.de

but there I am nearly the only one who has MOBI ideas and thoughts.

The Germans It seems lived to long with the shadow of 1932-1945 Without any Democracy, so they scared from anything illigal, but put a blind eye on Thaksins misbehavings.

Seems I am a paria there.

Mai koh tschai!

[h90]

its time to secure the airports and the seaport.

Relax. Never the seaport. PAD will get bombs and gun shots they can't handle. They had to move out from Government House because of this reason.

The seaport was on strike already once. As the labor union there supports PAD

[h90]

Anybody read the banned Economist article from the 6th December? Made for some interesting reading, I can see why Thailand banned that particular issue, they wouldn't want to start dispelling the myths they have created.

Written by Thaksins PR man

Total paranoid nonsense.

Again I find it strange that a foreigner is condoning the lack of free speech here. To suggest that any view that doesn't fit in with the PAD vision of things , has to be written by a Thaksin PR man is ridiculous.

Just sit back a minute and think, would you be happy if you were not able to discuss the politics of your home country freely.

Just remember truth is often stranger than fiction, and in many aspects of this upheaval I think you will find that this is the case.

I don't agree with the censorship, but must tell that many western countries have the same (Austria and Germany is jumping in my mind, Austria is just now not allowing a Puzzle for children.....), but that Economist article is so obvious ill-intended written from a Thaksin man that it makes it now understandable for me why Thailand has such laws.

[Xangsamhua]

I saw the latest article in the magazine previously mentioned. It explains a great deal and it makes sense. About 1/2 the posts here could be answered if it were available for reading.

What date is the latest article. I saw one dated 26? 28? November. Is there a later one?

[JacknDanny]

I saw the latest article in the magazine previously mentioned. It explains a great deal and it makes sense. About 1/2 the posts here could be answered if it were available for reading.

[siam4ever]

The Economist article pretty much hit the nail on the head. The right wing elite is understandably worried that one day Thai people will enjoy journalistic freedom.

[jasreeve17]

Anybody read the banned Economist article from the 6th December? Made for some interesting reading, I can see why Thailand banned that particular issue, they wouldn't want to start dispelling the myths they have created.

Written by Thaksins PR man

Total paranoid nonsense.

Again I find it strange that a foreigner is condoning the lack of free speech here. To suggest that any view that doesn't fit in with the PAD vision of things , has to be written by a Thaksin PR man is ridiculous.

Just sit back a minute and think, would you be happy if you were not able to discuss the politics of your home country freely.

Just remember truth is often stranger than fiction, and in many aspects of this upheaval I think you will find that this is the case.

I don't agree with the censorship, but must tell that many western countries have the same (Austria and Germany is jumping in my mind, Austria is just now not allowing a Puzzle for children.....), but that Economist article is so obvious ill-intended written from a Thaksin man that it makes it now understandable for me why Thailand has such laws.

& you see some link between the economist article and a children's puzzle?

Standard PAD logic...

[cmsally]

Anybody read the banned Economist article from the 6th December? Made for some interesting reading, I can see why Thailand banned that particular issue, they wouldn't want to start dispelling the myths they have created.

Written by Thaksins PR man

Total paranoid nonsense.

Again I find it strange that a foreigner is condoning the lack of free speech here. To suggest that any view that doesn't fit in with the PAD vision of things , has to be written by a Thaksin PR man is ridiculous.

Just sit back a minute and think, would you be happy if you were not able to discuss the politics of your home country freely.

Just remember truth is often stranger than fiction, and in many aspects of this upheaval I think you will find that this is the case.

I don't agree with the censorship, but must tell that many western countries have the same (Austria and Germany is jumping in my mind, Austria is just now not allowing a Puzzle for children.....), but that Economist article is so obvious ill-intended written from a Thaksin man that it makes it now understandable for me why Thailand has such laws.

You mean to say that some of Europe has the same draconian laws that prevent discussion of their present day politics and rulers. Hardly the same as the situation here and even if it was, doesn't mean that it makes it excusable.

Where is your evidence it was written by a Thaksin man. It just presents a fairly factual point of view and analysis.

There are of course many things that have been left out and which of course can't be discussed here.

Oh the joys of free speech. I suppose we will just have to discuss Lizzy and Phil the Greek instead!

[marquess]

Anybody read the banned Economist article from the 6th December? Made for some interesting reading, I can see why Thailand banned that particular issue, they wouldn't want to start dispelling the myths they have created.

Yes I have it and agree, but found the comments of particular interest especially the first one about the US and it's influence!

[Bangyai]

Anybody read the banned Economist article from the 6th December? Made for some interesting reading, I can see why Thailand banned that particular issue, they wouldn't want to start dispelling the myths they have created.

Written by Thaksins PR man

Total paranoid nonsense.

Again I find it strange that a foreigner is condoning the lack of free speech here. To suggest that any view that doesn't fit in with the PAD vision of things , has to be written by a Thaksin PR man is ridiculous.

Just sit back a minute and think, would you be happy if you were not able to discuss the politics of your home country freely.

Just remember truth is often stranger than fiction, and in many aspects of this upheaval I think you will find that this is the case.

Agreed Sally. In fact, on the web article I could not find out who the auther of the article is ? Perhaps JacknDanny can tell us ?

IMO the article was for the most part even handed, not withstanding that it refered to Ms Darunee as ' a young activist ' which she is not. I see some people getting hot and bothered by this article but I don't think it was pro Thaksin ?? People are finding fault with it because it wasn't rabidly anti Thaksin and the auther wasn't foaming at the mouth with a torrent of angry invective against him.

As for being paranoid nonsense , surely when people try to suppress freedom of speech and choice it is act of paranoia ?

[Gravelrash]

I wholly agree with the PAD. This is a stand against corruption. If this doesn't work, there will never be an end to corruption in Thailand!

You obviously don't read anything aside from The Nation, none of this has anything to do with corruption whatsoever.