Ex-thai Pm Attempts To Block Govt Led By Opponents

[Sturbuc]

Paying elected politician 50 million baht to switch sides and vote for Pueh Thai nominees.

Source?

bulls_t news.

Still I don't understand why so many farangs love so much Thaksin.

Go Abhisit!!!

Well, and i don't understand why there are many people mind about Thaksin but almost nobody mind about a new government which has never been elected. And as written before - the PAD fears a new election because they might fail again.

BTW: everybody might be bribable; it just depends on the amount. And i'm sure it will be taken out of the countries resources. Nothing really changes. Maybe only the direction where the money goes.

[Koo82]

High education should be ONLY about the ability of the child/student to benefit from it NOT how rich or self sacrificing their parents are as that is grossly unfair and immoral and needs stopping. I cannot see how anyone can disagree that a bright intelligent and capable child from a poor family should get high education he/she deserves as easily as am equally capable rich kid. We end up just educating mostly rich kids who very often have not the brain power to benefit or even deserve high level education, and we get folk like G W Bush and many like him, i.e. inept incapable morons in key positions whilst many highly intelligent capable kids from poor families get poor education and are left behind. This is so grossly wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong and always will be, cannot think of a single valid unselfish argument against that. IMHO all countries should ban private education and supply the best state run schooling and universities possible and then insist only those proved capable (by exams, IQ testing AND school work) receive such higher education no matter what their background and kids from very poor families given financial help so their parents do not have to insist they go out to work in a mundane job well beneath their capabilities, a loss to them and to the country. No problem with adult education being private but not for kids and young graduates who have only their parents standing or generosity to give them any chance in their adult life.

Education AND Health should be the most socialist aspect of all countries as these commodities should NOT be for buying but equally and fairly state supplied for us all.

True that students from poor families cannot afford better education.

They mostly learn in local schools and gather with other students who cannot afford good schools too.

In Thailand, good schools are not spread into rural areas. Some provinces have ministers but they don't develop their hometowns. Why? Easy to control.

[benjamat]

Thank god civilized countries don't behave like this. Western countries like the USA and Great Britain would never behave like this, nor would they allow this to happen.

Sorry to inform you but in the last two weeks environmentalists chained themselves to the Stansted runway in England and in Greece protesters stormed an airport.

Oh and they have plans to do it again at Heathrow.

It's laughable that you think "civilised" countries act any different and I hope people like you will stop saying such rubbish in the future.

Hardly a sensible reply, protesters were arrested within 5 hours and will be prosecuted.

[Vato]

once again another quite ignorant and misleading post...bending words and stating things i did not say.

1. i did not say people in northeast thailand should not be allowed to vote...where did i say that?...where?

2. i state facts not 'rousing' anyone up...unlike yourself...who is BLATANTLY twisting my words to try and change the original intent .

i understand you must have some type of 'reading' problem and more than likely are disallusioned ... because obviously you read one thing and think it means something else.

you state : "It is good that the people from the Northeast choose not to allow a bunch of egotistical jerks to dominate them and hijack their government"

quite an ironic and possibly even moronic statement on your part....seeing as Thaksin has twisted the minds of these people in the northeast more than anyone else in the history of thai politics.

tell me, why do you keep bending my words...and keep lying?

[TAWP]

Hi TAWP

Well.... the fact that the results did not alter in the closely supervised by-elections certainly seems to show precisely that. I know you used the term 'loyal sellers' with a little irony & I agree this is more than a little implausible.

If your question "So why are the doing it then?" is genuine .... I ask you to look at the by-election results of La-ong Tiyapairat -- In the Chiang Rai election - it did, after all, involve the conviction of her brother Yongyuth Tiyapairat ..The genius Yongyuth was caught on video in a "sting operation" paying 10 officials money prior to the election -- this ,in turn, resulted in the dissolution of the PPP.

RESULT (97%) of BY ELECTION:

People Power Party (PPP) Ms La-ong Tiyapairat----- 69,561 votes

Democrat candidate Kittipong Namwong -- 19,314 votes.

In this high profile case of corruption your question "So why are the doing it then?" becomes an extremely good question indeed ! It is pretty obvious that in one of the strongest PPP electorates where they actually won by 70,000 votes to 20,000 votes -- that the payment of monies was was certainly not for the purpose of altering the outcome in any manner. In this electorate there has never been the slightest doubt about the outcome !

I'm pretty sure that after the s**t hit the fan that others within his party were asking our hero that self same question. Why...why...why...why did you do it ??

So to answer your question-- in this particular case--- the only thing that is 100% certain is that it WAS NOT to alter the election outcome!!

But I suspect that your image of "vote buying" revolves more around 100 / 200Bt being paid directly to the voters in the depths of the north or Isaan.

Those who think the intelligent and hard working people of the north or Isaan are so stupid as to actually "sell their vote" for 200 Bt. simply do not understand the people of those regions!! Most of these same rural people would give you 200Bt. if you were in need & asked for it!! Apart from the necessities to live --- money is just not that important . Some posters seem to imagine for some reason that 200Bt. magically becomes an incredibly large amount of money --- just because the region is a bit less wealthy than elsewhere in Thailand --- in these minds 200Bt becomes a kings ransom. They are are deluded. Its about the value of 2Kg of beef or pork and in rural villages --- that is not much at all.

Would you "sell your vote" for about the equivalent of one days laborers pay ??? NO --- I would not --- you would not --- and I assure you that the people of the north and north east are just as smart as you and I.

Before the USUAL SUSPECTS go right off their brain --- I want to confirm one claim --- money is paid by the political parties to every voter they can locate---

But TAWP --- no voter "sells" his/her vote ----- they vote for whichever candidate they prefer. The money cannot change their vote. By the way ---those paying the voter neither request nor expect that the payment shall alter the vote. That is not the purpose of paying the money to the ordinary voter!

Incidentally --- lets pretend that it were--- you pay me to vote for you---I agree and then go off to cast my secret vote. I can detect a problem here --- can you??

TAWP --- this is the primary reason that the results of the by-elections are not different to the previous contaminated results.

Please note:

Any and all forms of corruption -- including that involved in elections -- are one of the MAJOR and very real problems damaging this country. One can but hope that the seemingly universal acceptance of corruption at all levels can be corrected ---- for the benefit of Thailand.

All of that text and you still failed to answer the question, that you also said was a good one, as to WHY?

And no, most of us knows that the 200B money pay directly in hand isn't the one buying the votes, it's the promise of grants and the suitcase of money directly delivered to the most influential individuals in the local region (for example village elders) that will be loudmouth and/or important proponents of the paying party.

The 200B in the hand is just face-sugar, to remind people in a small way who is 'paying'. A PR campaign much like brand-names advertise with their name and not their products at times.

[animatic]

Thailand have following wikipedia a flawing democracy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index

Personally I can’t understand how they can use the word democracy on any country where there are only the individuals/parties to elect who comes from the most wealthy part of the society. In a non democracy they will always will be the best educated and successful business people!

In a democracy all people have the right to the same education and nobody need or can bribe them into better education.

This last line is half right,

they have a RIGHT to an education,

but most PAY for the better one.

All students here have a right to an education too don't they?

If you want a basic education pay for uniforms, but you still go.

But you want into the BIG schools PAY.

Same as Europe or USA,

barring scholarships for the brilliant and lucky.

Just seen this post and although indeed true it is so very very wrong. High education should be ONLY about the ability of the child/student to benefit from it NOT how rich or self sacrificing their parents are as that is grossly unfair and immoral and needs stopping. I cannot see how anyone can disagree that a bright intelligent and capable child from a poor family should get high education he/she deserves as easily as am equally capable rich kid. We end up just educating mostly rich kids who very often have not the brain power to benefit or even deserve high level education, and we get folk like G W Bush and many like him, i.e. inept incapable morons in key positions whilst many highly intelligent capable kids from poor families get poor education and are left behind. This is so grossly wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong and always will be, cannot think of a single valid unselfish argument against that. IMHO all countries should ban private education and supply the best state run schooling and universities possible and then insist only those proved capable (by exams, IQ testing AND school work) receive such higher education no matter what their background and kids from very poor families given financial help so their parents do not have to insist they go out to work in a mundane job well beneath their capabilities, a loss to them and to the country. No problem with adult education being private but not for kids and young graduates who have only their parents standing or generosity to give them any chance in their adult life.

Education AND Health should be the most socialist aspect of all countries as these commodities should NOT be for buying but equally and fairly state supplied for us all.

I was saying the way it has been, not the way it SHOULD be.

Two different things.

As to your 'should be'.

Well you have blocked the less intelegent from a further education...

they need it JUST as much as the very smart but poor.

I 100% agree that smart students of ANY financial means should get access to the best possible education.

Never said differently.

But was pointing out it rarely has ever been that way in practice.

And i have decried several times here the stupid uniforms in the school system here.

The costs for them a have prevented many poor children for going to elementary school.

Screwed from earliest possible education over CLOTHES.

[hammered]

Is it just me, or does this get more pathetic everyday?

I agree. I think it's disgusting that a mob of anti government protestors should be allowed to hold the country to ransom the way they did.

Democracy my a*se! This is no way to behave in a Democratic society. All you yellow shirts should be ashamed of how you have behaved. You behaved like the baby who never got his chocolate!

When a government is voted in Democratically then you should abide by this government and accept that your side lost. Next election time you make a better case for your party and try and win.

Thank god civilized countries don't behave like this. Western countries like the USA and Great Britain would never behave like this, nor would they allow this to happen.

I think I speak for a lot of the democratic countries across the world when I say that we look upon your actions with shame and disgust. There is no glory in the way you have (and are) behaved.

Would agree WHEN the Thai Government IS elected in democratically. The last election like those before it was yet another farce and an insult to democracy with vote buying and rigging so I cannot see how anyone can honestly recognise them as being fairly and honestly elected by the people. As I keep keep saying you wont have democracy here with so many corrupt bully boy type school children holding so much power and not until anew election is properly monitored and observed by the UN or similar external international recognised body. When the incumbent Government is seen to be in power by rigged elections and vote buying (vote buying is a fact not fiction) then of course there is little alternative to what the PAD did to get things moving, and so far it worked whether or not you believe in what PAD stand for is irrelevant for the moment. We urgently need here new proper democratic and monitored elections ASAP so we have a Government that all democratically free thinking folk can accept, whichever party get elected they then can be recognised as an elected Government and should be able to serve their term as long as you do not get corrupt bastards like Thaksin caught feathering his own nest like the selfish criminal he is.

Its a shame that the same old inaccuracies keep being recycled ----- But the continuing claims that "vote buying" invalidated the outcome of the election is not supported by the facts. If you care to check the results of the by-elections held under strict EC supervision in all areas where candidates from 3 parties were "carded" by the EC for such practices---you will find that most of the "carded" candidates were confirmed and reelected---- therefore it is apparent that "vote buying" did not "pervert" the outcome as is continually claimed by yourself and your friends.

Needless to say any and all forms of corruption are one of the MAJOR and very real problems damaging this country. One can but hope that the seemingly universal acceptance of corruption can be corrected ---- for the benefit of Thailand.

So you are claiming that vote-buying, even when it happens, has no outcome on the results? So why are the doing it then?

A person from the same party being re-elected in a second election due to dismissal of vote fraud of the winning candidate (and others) in the first isn't a sign of no effect from vote-buying. Perhaps it's just a sign of 'loyal sellers'.

Hi TAWP

Well.... the fact that the results did not alter in the closely supervised by-elections certainly seems to show precisely that. I know you used the term 'loyal sellers' with a little irony & I agree this is more than a little implausible.

If your question "So why are the doing it then?" is genuine .... I ask you to look at the by-election results of La-ong Tiyapairat -- In the Chiang Rai election - it did, after all, involve the conviction of her brother Yongyuth Tiyapairat ..The genius Yongyuth was caught on video in a "sting operation" paying 10 officials money prior to the election -- this ,in turn, resulted in the dissolution of the PPP.

RESULT (97%) of BY ELECTION:

People Power Party (PPP) Ms La-ong Tiyapairat----- 69,561 votes

Democrat candidate Kittipong Namwong -- 19,314 votes.

In this high profile case of corruption your question "So why are the doing it then?" becomes an extremely good question indeed ! It is pretty obvious that in one of the strongest PPP electorates where they actually won by 70,000 votes to 20,000 votes -- that the payment of monies was was certainly not for the purpose of altering the outcome in any manner. In this electorate there has never been the slightest doubt about the outcome !

I'm pretty sure that after the s**t hit the fan that others within his party were asking our hero that self same question. Why...why...why...why did you do it ??

So to answer your question-- in this particular case--- the only thing that is 100% certain is that it WAS NOT to alter the election outcome!!

But I suspect that your image of "vote buying" revolves more around 100 / 200Bt being paid directly to the voters in the depths of the north or Isaan.

Those who think the intelligent and hard working people of the north or Isaan are so stupid as to actually "sell their vote" for 200 Bt. simply do not understand the people of those regions!! Most of these same rural people would give you 200Bt. if you were in need & asked for it!! Apart from the necessities to live --- money is just not that important . Some posters seem to imagine for some reason that 200Bt. magically becomes an incredibly large amount of money --- just because the region is a bit less wealthy than elsewhere in Thailand --- in these minds 200Bt becomes a kings ransom. They are are deluded. Its about the value of 2Kg of beef or pork and in rural villages --- that is not much at all.

Would you "sell your vote" for about the equivalent of one days laborers pay ??? NO --- I would not --- you would not --- and I assure you that the people of the north and north east are just as smart as you and I.

Before the USUAL SUSPECTS go right off their brain --- I want to confirm one claim --- money is paid by the political parties to every voter they can locate---

But TAWP --- no voter "sells" his/her vote ----- they vote for whichever candidate they prefer. The money cannot change their vote. By the way ---those paying the voter neither request nor expect that the payment shall alter the vote. That is not the purpose of paying the money to the ordinary voter!

Incidentally --- lets pretend that it were--- you pay me to vote for you---I agree and then go off to cast my secret vote. I can detect a problem here --- can you??

TAWP --- this is the primary reason that the results of the by-elections are not different to the previous contaminated results.

Please note:

Any and all forms of corruption -- including that involved in elections -- are one of the MAJOR and very real problems damaging this country. One can but hope that the seemingly universal acceptance of corruption at all levels can be corrected ---- for the benefit of Thailand.

Someone with that family name could run under the gnome appreciation party and win in Chiang Rai. The MP, faction warlord buying is more important than vote buying perse as are the accomodations with local powerful families business interests. I wonder what business this particular family indulge in.......

[animatic]

Thaksin denounces former coalition partners as betrayers of people

NOW! Enrage the Brown Shirts, uh, red shi... heck, little difference,

with low brow rhetoric and send them screaming to the old backer's homes.

Maybe terror in the night will change hearts and calculations

that money couldn't buy out right. But HEY! It's ALL for the people right?

Elba! Oh where for art thou Elba!

Hmmmm....I think you'll find that Napoleon escaped from Elba ( to face his Waterloo ) . Knowing you, perhaps you might prefer St Helena where he died in exile and to add insult to injury, someone cut his dinkle doo off and soaked it in vinegar to preserve it. Not that you would wish that on Thaksin.....a bit OTT.

Unless ?? ..... there used to be a girl called Elba who plied her trade from Thermaes ? Surely you're not looking for her ? She'd be getting on a bit now too

Elba seemed more poetical!

Either way it was more appropriate.

Since he has not found his last incarcerations,

so hindsight can't be used yet.

Some how I don't think Thaksin is enough of a mensch

to warrent saving his Doc Johnson for historical purposes.

It was simply an ironic distillation of this last weekends news reports.

The absurdity of which was actual hard to top.

[LaoPo]

.....Thaksin was a c*nt who exploited the poor and we should ALL want to see the back of him and his type for ever.

...the poor have been exploited by the elite, running he country, since memory for hundreds of years....the difference is that the people BEFORE Thaksin are forgotten. They were at least as corrupt as him but they had no face, no name and were less visible which was, of course, more clever, seen from their point of view.

It's the feudal system, put in place by the rulers of this country which deliberately kept the poor, dumb and poor(er).

LaoPo

[animatic]

.....Thaksin was a c*nt who exploited the poor and we should ALL want to see the back of him and his type for ever.

...the poor have been exploited by the elite, running he country, since memory for hundreds of years....the difference is that the people BEFORE Thaksin are forgotten. They were at least as corrupt as him but they had no face, no name and were less visible which was, of course, more clever, seen from their point of view.

It's the feudal system, put in place by the rulers of this country which deliberately kept the poor, dumb and poor(er).

LaoPo

An abrupt jump from 19th century to 21st century

would logically be rather tough on any old world culture....

[Jai Dee]

Legal Action against Banned Politicians Involved in Forming New Govt

The Pheu Thai Party has prepared to file a complaint with the poll panel asking for legal action against banned politicians getting involved in the formation of the Democrat-led government.

Chiang Mai MP from the Pheu Thai Party, Surapong Towijakchaikul revealed that he has prepared to lodge a complaint with the Election Commission, asking for legal action against banned politicians of dissolved parties such as Newin Chidchob, Suwat Liptapanlop, and Anongwan Thepsuthin.

Surapong claimed he has obtained evidence that shows their involvement in the formation of the Democrat-led government.

Commenting on the formation of the cabinet, Surapong advised Prime Minister-elect Abhisit Vejjajiva to consider the country's sake as a priority, and said the allocation of the ministerial posts must be made fairly to keep a good relationship with coalition partners.

Meanwhile, MPs and key figures of Pheu Thai attended a dinner party last night at the SC Park Hotel after the House vote for the new prime minister concluded.

The Pheu Thai Party's outspoken MP and former Public Health Minister, Chalerm Yoobamrung said the Democrat's victory in the House vote for the new prime minister was the result of buying MP votes.

Chalerm also said he believes his party will gain more MP seats from the upcoming by-elections.

As for the selection of the House's opposition Leader, Chalerm said he cannot take this responsibility as the post must be held by the leader of a political party, and he is only an MP.

Chalerm added that Pracharaj Leader Sanoh Thienthong is qualified to take the post, while Pheu Thai still has no plan to file a no-confidence debate as there is still no royal command to endorse the status of the new prime minister.

Former Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat also appeared at the party.

Somchai revealed that he recently talked on the phone with his brother-in-law and ousted Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra, but the conversation did not involve politics.

He refused to comment on the concern that the selection of Democrat Leader Abhisit Vejjajiva as the prime minister will cause further social conflict.

Source: TOC - 16 December 2008

[TAWP]

Surely they are being ironic?

[Samuian]

Surely they are being ironic?

Ruthless, whatever it will take, to get back to the helm...they are "the elites" they claim are against them and the country!

Serious, they won't give up ,no matter what their entire influence - power - income - do as you wish - scheme is at stake!

They can't generate income other then through state corruption!

[jdinasia]

I was down in Siam Paragon with my partner and a friend on Sat when the red shirts descended ... other than the traffic snarl-up and hearing some of the reports of violence it appeared a calm normal Sat.

(The beer garden at Central World made for a fun night!)

[tig28]

All of that text and you still failed to answer the question, that you also said was a good one, as to WHY?

And no, most of us knows that the 200B money pay directly in hand isn't the one buying the votes, it's the promise of grants and the suitcase of money directly delivered to the most influential individuals in the local region (for example village elders) that will be loudmouth and/or important proponents of the paying party.

The 200B in the hand is just face-sugar, to remind people in a small way who is 'paying'. A PR campaign much like brand-names advertise with their name and not their products at times.

Hi TAWP

Yes --- you are correct -- I have not answered the question. Because the so often heard phrase "vote buying" is an extremely board brush that covers a multitude of sins... both real and imagined ... it"s difficult to know which "sin" is being discussed. Therefore I probably don't have a why any better than your suggestion .... "A PR campaign"

It is obvious from your post that you appreciate that the 200Bt paid to the ordinary voter does not "buy" that vote ....

"most of us knows that the 200B money pay directly in hand isn't the one buying the votes"

...... but TAWP I"m sure you agree that many posting on this subject do not. It is the repeated uninformed claims of "rural people" selling their votes for 200Bt that I was attempting to address. When this incorrect view is combined with a host of bigoted and racist epithets (as is frequently the case) ..... it is sick. The sickness is racism .... based -- as it so commonly is---on a lie .... if it were not so degrading you could actually laugh.

So excuse me for addressing half of my previous post to something you already knew -- but I assure you that others reading this discussion do not!

"it's the promise of grants and the suitcase of money directly delivered to the most influential individuals in the local region "(for example village elders) that will be loudmouth and/or important proponents of the paying party."

I agree there is long standing corruption somewhere around this level --- probably higher (the stupidity with that genius YT in Chiang Rai proves that!) but I disagree with you most strongly when you nominate -- "influential individuals in the local region "(for example village elders)"..........

Village elders/headman/pooyai baan are names often used interchangeably (incorrectly) but if you believe that people in this position exert some Machiavellian influence over the independently minded citizenry of the mid-sized rural village in Isaan that I live in ..... then TWAP have I got news for you!!

It is an old joke around here that you can always tell election time by the depth of the wais being delivered to the villagers by the hopeful.

As an official elected by the villagers --- the Pooyai Baan is at all times extremely careful not to put his voters "off side"... he walks a very difficult path and to even suggest that the villagers are somehow under his control or "bullied" by him is simply untrue. At the next level up --- Kamnan --- the situation is similar but reduced in effect as he is more removed from the people and does not fear their disdain as does the Pooyai Baan. Continue up the food chain I believe the opportunity for corruption increases. Also the size of the trough.

good night.

[animatic]

Trickle down corruption in essence.

Ronnie Reagan would be proud his economic model was working in someway.

Too bad it''s bent as a cork screw.

[sabaijai]

Anyone here know where one could find the complete text of Thaksin's Sat night speech?

[permanent_disorder]

Anyone here know where one could find the complete text of Thaksin's Sat night speech?

http://www.matichon.co.th/news_detail.php?...00&catid=01

on youtube is it probably too.

[rayw]

Thailand have following wikipedia a flawing democracy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index

Personally I can’t understand how they can use the word democracy on any country where there are only the individuals/parties to elect who comes from the most wealthy part of the society. In a non democracy they will always will be the best educated and successful business people!

In a democracy all people have the right to the same education and nobody need or can bribe them into better education.

This last line is half right,

they have a RIGHT to an education,

but most PAY for the better one.

All students here have a right to an education too don't they?

If you want a basic education pay for uniforms, but you still go.

But you want into the BIG schools PAY.

Same as Europe or USA,

barring scholarships for the brilliant and lucky.

Just seen this post and although indeed true it is so very very wrong. High education should be ONLY about the ability of the child/student to benefit from it NOT how rich or self sacrificing their parents are as that is grossly unfair and immoral and needs stopping. I cannot see how anyone can disagree that a bright intelligent and capable child from a poor family should get high education he/she deserves as easily as am equally capable rich kid. We end up just educating mostly rich kids who very often have not the brain power to benefit or even deserve high level education, and we get folk like G W Bush and many like him, i.e. inept incapable morons in key positions whilst many highly intelligent capable kids from poor families get poor education and are left behind. This is so grossly wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong and always will be, cannot think of a single valid unselfish argument against that. IMHO all countries should ban private education and supply the best state run schooling and universities possible and then insist only those proved capable (by exams, IQ testing AND school work) receive such higher education no matter what their background and kids from very poor families given financial help so their parents do not have to insist they go out to work in a mundane job well beneath their capabilities, a loss to them and to the country. No problem with adult education being private but not for kids and young graduates who have only their parents standing or generosity to give them any chance in their adult life.

Education AND Health should be the most socialist aspect of all countries as these commodities should NOT be for buying but equally and fairly state supplied for us all.

I was saying the way it has been, not the way it SHOULD be.

Two different things.

As to your 'should be'.

Well you have blocked the less intelegent from a further education...

they need it JUST as much as the very smart but poor.

I 100% agree that smart students of ANY financial means should get access to the best possible education.

Never said differently.

But was pointing out it rarely has ever been that way in practice.

And i have decried several times here the stupid uniforms in the school system here.

The costs for them a have prevented many poor children for going to elementary school.

Screwed from earliest possible education over CLOTHES.

Of course I agree the less able need educating too, never meant to imply differently but no point in sending someone without the gift of a higher IQ to University, it is a waste of resources, but it is also wrong to make university places nearly exclusively only available to those who can pay irrespective of their mental ability and/or willingness to make the required effort. Those who plainly would not benefit from academic schooling and higher education should for sure be given FREE education in skills that best suit the abilities they do have so I am not disagreeing with you at all. This is a major benefit to the country's future prosperity as we will then have its citizens educated and trained in what best suits them whether from rich or poor. I am fed up in life seeing rich kids with little ability employed in top key jobs (often as a result of nepotism) and usually making a complete mess of the role they are in and what is worse affecting many other people's lives adversely, like their company employees who as a result may end up out of work. We fully agree that suitable education should be available to ALL who are prepared to work at it irrespective of parental riches and/or sacrifices.

Oh I also agree about those stupid school[ uniforms, I have always disagreed with them for all the sound social reasons you mention PLUS it makes the children like sheep and not individuals. Certainly some simple dress code very minimal standard is needed that should not preclude the poorer kids from education, and if very poor then these families should have free Government given help for their children in this respect.

Edited December 17, 2008 by rayw

[henryalleman]

Thailand have following wikipedia a flawing democracy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index

Personally I can't understand how they can use the word democracy on any country where there are only the individuals/parties to elect who comes from the most wealthy part of the society. In a non democracy they will always will be the best educated and successful business people!

In a democracy all people have the right to the same education and nobody need or can bribe them into better education.

This last line is half right,

they have a RIGHT to an education,

but most PAY for the better one.

All students here have a right to an education too don't they?

If you want a basic education pay for uniforms, but you still go.

But you want into the BIG schools PAY.

Same as Europe or USA,

barring scholarships for the brilliant and lucky.

Just seen this post and although indeed true it is so very very wrong. High education should be ONLY about the ability of the child/student to benefit from it NOT how rich or self sacrificing their parents are as that is grossly unfair and immoral and needs stopping. I cannot see how anyone can disagree that a bright intelligent and capable child from a poor family should get high education he/she deserves as easily as am equally capable rich kid. We end up just educating mostly rich kids who very often have not the brain power to benefit or even deserve high level education, and we get folk like G W Bush and many like him, i.e. inept incapable morons in key positions whilst many highly intelligent capable kids from poor families get poor education and are left behind. This is so grossly wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong and always will be, cannot think of a single valid unselfish argument against that. IMHO all countries should ban private education and supply the best state run schooling and universities possible and then insist only those proved capable (by exams, IQ testing AND school work) receive such higher education no matter what their background and kids from very poor families given financial help so their parents do not have to insist they go out to work in a mundane job well beneath their capabilities, a loss to them and to the country. No problem with adult education being private but not for kids and young graduates who have only their parents standing or generosity to give them any chance in their adult life.

Education AND Health should be the most socialist aspect of all countries as these commodities should NOT be for buying but equally and fairly state supplied for us all.

I was saying the way it has been, not the way it SHOULD be.

Two different things.

As to your 'should be'.

Well you have blocked the less intelegent from a further education...

they need it JUST as much as the very smart but poor.

I 100% agree that smart students of ANY financial means should get access to the best possible education.

Never said differently.

But was pointing out it rarely has ever been that way in practice.

And i have decried several times here the stupid uniforms in the school system here.

The costs for them a have prevented many poor children for going to elementary school.

Screwed from earliest possible education over CLOTHES.

Of course I agree the less able need educating too, never meant to imply differently but no point in sending someone without the gift of a higher IQ to University, it is a waste of resources, but it is also wrong to make university places nearly exclusively only available to those who can pay irrespective of their mental ability and/or willingness to make the required effort. Those who plainly would not benefit from academic schooling and higher education should for sure be given FREE education in skills that best suit the abilities they do have so I am not disagreeing with you at all. This is a major benefit to the country's future prosperity as we will then have its citizens educated and trained in what best suits them whether from rich or poor. I am fed up in life seeing rich kids with little ability employed in top key jobs (often as a result of nepotism) and usually making a complete mess of the role they are in and what is worse affecting many other people's lives adversely, like their company employees who as a result may end up out of work. We fully agree that suitable education should be available to ALL who are prepared to work at it irrespective of parental riches and/or sacrifices.

Oh I also agree about those stupid school[ uniforms, I have always disagreed with them for all the sound social reasons you mention PLUS it makes the children like sheep and not individuals. Certainly some simple dress code very minimal standard is needed that should not preclude the poorer kids from education, and if very poor then these families should have free Government given help for their children in this respect.

To achieve those will take major changes in the education system. Because the disadvantage starts already in lower school. If you have the misfortune to be a girl from poor parents in some small village up North or up country and must go to a government school there, you will never have the opportunity to get same level of education as children in big towns who go private schools from the first grade on. The intellectual possibilities of that child will be never developed 100%, and he/she will never get an education to prepare he/she for an higher education.

In this way Thailand is wasting a huge potential of brains who cost the country trillions of Baht in the long run.

But as long this country prefer to buy airplane carriers who are completely useless, and other military fantasies; instead of spending that money for education nothing will change for the better.

And for the next 100 years 49% of the workforce will still be working in agriculture with very very low salaries. Its devastating for an economy that 49% of the labour force work in agriculture who only contribute 11.9% to the BNP.

In developed counties about 5 to 8% of the labour force work in agriculture but their contribution to the BNP is of the same level as in Thailand.

Only a strong reform in education and agriculture can change this. Otherwise Thailand, and will always be a country in development and will never progress, on the contrary it will go down hill, because they will loose the competition on the international markets.

[henryalleman]

And I forget the most important part. First the government should start to educate the teachers, because their teaching skills are much below international standards.

[rayw]

And I forget the most important part. First the government should start to educate the teachers, because their teaching skills are much below international standards.

Indeed you need to do both that and invest in schools for ALL. For those that pay fortunes for private education maybe they should be taxed a lot more to fund a proper fair education system for all, girls and boys, rich and poor alike. They should also employ falang English teachers much more to ensure all children learn English, no not because that is my native tongue but because without it these kids will have no chance competing in the big wide world where English is the main international business language and likely to be so for the foreseeable future. Well if Chinese doesn't eventually take over ??? Main thing is to get good quality education for ALL children to start to give them an equal opportunity in life depending on their willingness to learn and work hard at whatever skills they naturally have whether academic or physical or both. Good education means monitoring the children with care and channelling their skills and abilities in the right direction once they are old enough to recognise what those abilities are.

It will never change here whilst you have politicians from both factions running the country who seem to mainly care about their personal greed and how much they can make out of being elected, Thaksin being one of many such classic examples. Many also seem to be hel_l bent on seeing to it that the poor stay poor and uneducated just so they can continue to exploit them like 100 years ago in England for example, but it is now 2008 and we should all know better and have higher moral standards than that in this world. I hope this new administration can take this point to its heart and do something about it, but to be honest I doubt it, lets just see and hope. They are talking of free health care and schooling for primary level, but words are cheap, deeds are what matter.

[Thai at Heart]

A good discussion.

It is rather ironic that it would appear that the most important thing that Thailand's new PM has ever done is go to Eton and Oxford.

[henryalleman]

A good discussion.

It is rather ironic that it would appear that the most important thing that Thailand's new PM has ever done is go to Eton and Oxford.

I think that's just what Thailand needs somebody who is not effected by the root learning system who keep students docile and obedient and never learnt to form their own opinion.

[auserb]

A good discussion.

It is rather ironic that it would appear that the most important thing that Thailand's new PM has ever done is go to Eton and Oxford.

I think that's just what Thailand needs somebody who is not effected by the root learning system who keep students docile and obedient and never learnt to form their own opinion.

MY DEAR FRIEND,

Even thouhgt I am not supporter of new Thai PM, but according to you , you are downgrading Thai people including PM. I am not critisizing you but just want to make my point. People of Thailand are great (especialy ladies). let them live their own lives... Dont downgrade people. I love Mr. Taksin and hate new PM. but this is my democratic wright. Am I wrigt or am I wright. Long live Isan ..

[PhootThaiMaiDai]

Is it just me, or does this get more pathetic everyday?

I agree. I think it's disgusting that a mob of anti government protestors should be allowed to hold the country to ransom the way they did.

Democracy my a*se! This is no way to behave in a Democratic society. All you yellow shirts should be ashamed of how you have behaved. You behaved like the baby who never got his chocolate!

When a government is voted in Democratically then you should abide by this government and accept that your side lost. Next election time you make a better case for your party and try and win.

Thank god civilized countries don't behave like this. Western countries like the USA and Great Britain would never behave like this, nor would they allow this to happen.

I think I speak for a lot of the democratic countries across the world when I say that we look upon your actions with shame and disgust. There is no glory in the way you have (and are) behaved.

I'm not so sure any more. Bush/Toxin '12?

If America had taken action, like the Yellow Shirts, when the Republicans pulled out the stops and stole the election in '00, the world wouldn't be in the shape it is today? Bush, his administration, their ideology, the staff that one by one left office "to spend more time with their families" until finally seeing the light at the end of the tunnel to whistle blow (for money of course) - never belonged in office. The Yellow Shirts had their day in the sun and Thai will suffer for it for a long time, but if they've overcome a fixed election and a perpetuated corrupt "Republicanism," they're ahead of the game in a third world sort of rolling up the sleeves to get dirty sort of way. You don't really sound informed of the situation more than somebody affected by the pain in the ass the closures were.

And thank G_D for "civilized countries?" Whose G_D and which ones; the ones that hypocritically follow a colonial path of greased resistance? Get off your high horse and soap box and open your eyes - your Patriotism merely preserves the ideology that it's ok to think of the earth still flat and squeeze, chop, and rage a planet for as high a burn rate as your middle classism can afford, one fiscal quarter at a time and dam_n the long range forecasting. Nobody's ever been right, just better at organizing their workforce and market place - this too, all too soon, will be history and like Green and Global Warming, more apparent, but impolitically "sustainable..."

[PhootThaiMaiDai]

I am surprised that the red shirts did not start their own annoying things after the yellow left the airports & government buildings

Wasn't the brutal murders of PAD by the red shirts enough for you ? shame on you promoting more conflict that is being promoted by Toxin.

Odd how you worded that to your own need? I was surprised myself that the corrupt - red - side of things didn't follow a more vitriolic course of turns taking side-ism. It's got nothing to do with wishing more happened, just "surprise" that the red shirts did not start their own annoying things after the yellow shirts left...

[sabaijai]

Anyone here know where one could find the complete text of Thaksin's Sat night speech?

http://www.matichon.co.th/news_detail.php?...00&catid=01

on youtube is it probably too.

thanks for the matichon link.

[PhootThaiMaiDai]

As an American who is disgusted with what my country has become, I won't offer an opinion to the current situation. The USA has lost a great deal of its' moral authority. The US' exporting of toxic paper is an obvious stark example. How my fellow countrymen can stand by and continue to elect the same Usual Suspects from both sides of the aisle, is beyond me. There are third parties in the US that really want to revert back to the basic fundamentals of the Constitution, but even if they manage to gain traction, they get spiked and in the end, it is the Big Money that wins. I don't see Obama being much different.

Blah, blah, blah, Benedict Arnold.

This is not the place for your wacky Anti-American diatribes. Try the Bear Pit forum to share with others of your ilk.

Well said! You sound like a real chest beating patriot! To hel_l with every other country, Merica! Uber Allis!

Too bad your president side tracked the purpose and popularity of "Democracy" and speed bumped the economy of his own country and the shifted the focus of every other country in the world to damage control. If he and his cronies and his administration that mostly left and then whistle blew, and the chest beating patriots that were too busy playing good ole' boy being good little soldier-pawns or stuffing their pockets and protecting their G_D from the heathens and people like Galileo had a clue how obvious their skewed view was, Americans and others wouldn't post like this. Typical archaic sentiment, go back to school. And I wouldn't call it Anti-American, I'd call it anti-stupid. What's happened to America because of fast mouthed hormonally charged Patriotism, over thinking, is unthinkable.

How could you even mistakenly use Benedict Arnold as an example. You personify stupid American. But you have a nice day and G_D Bless...

[henryalleman]

A good discussion.

It is rather ironic that it would appear that the most important thing that Thailand's new PM has ever done is go to Eton and Oxford.

I think that's just what Thailand needs somebody who is not effected by the root learning system who keep students docile and obedient and never learnt to form their own opinion.

MY DEAR FRIEND,

Even thouhgt I am not supporter of new Thai PM, but according to you , you are downgrading Thai people including PM. I am not critisizing you but just want to make my point. People of Thailand are great (especialy ladies). let them live their own lives... Dont downgrade people. I love Mr. Taksin and hate new PM. but this is my democratic wright. Am I wrigt or am I wright. Long live Isan ..

MY DEAR AUSSIE FRIEND

Sorry to say but you are wrong. But I understand your motives. Maybe I'm wrong, but I presume you live a comfortable life in some Isan village where you are the king of the village and you like to keep it that way. Because you can have a domestic help for some 2000 Baht a month. Everybody look up to you being a Farang with money and a rich lifestyle compared with them and probably you have the biggest house in the village also. Maybe you are afraid that a better education and therefore better jobs could jeopardize your present status. Of course I could be wrong, if so, I do apologize.

Needless to say that pointing out the damage root learning is in no way downgrading the people of Thailand.

Long live Isan...