One Year Visa If Have Thai Child

[Lite Beer]

it may be possible to get a one year visa extension as his girlfriend has just had a baby and it has his surname on the birth certificate.

I went through this game myself. I have two Thai children; one with my ex-wife and one with my girlfriend. All properly documented, my name on both birth certificates. The immigration police won't recognize either of them as my child because I do not have LEGAL CUSTODY. My ex-wife even went with me to the amphoe office to try to give me joint custody and the lady there refused to do so. Since you're not married to your girlfriend, you do not have custody of the child and the immigration police told me you don't count as father.

How long ago was this and at what Immigration Office.

Under the old law when the Father had to be over 50 with no income required they did not like to issue and put up all kinds of obstacles.

Under the new rule where income/savings are needed they should be a bit more helpful.

[Mario2008]

The name on the birth certificate it self means nothing if you are not married to the mother. When a mother is married the law will asume that the husband is the father. When not marreid, the law will make no such asumption and the person registering the birth can name anyone as the father, without that person knowing that. That is why when not marreid the fahter also have to legalise the child, (declare that he confirms that the child is his).

Under the old rules I believed immigration wanted the father have legal custody, and they will so now. One of the requirements is that you actualy live with the child. Immigration seems to think custody is necesarry for that, although that is not in the rules and not realy necesarry. But I think having legalised the child is a requirement, otherwise it is legaly not your child.

[IraqRon]

Thanks Terrenova and Lite Beer for the information... And to Thailand Immigration for doing something sensible for the first time since I moved here 3 years ago... This is Great news for me... I just activated my second entry and will be calling the states tomorrow to have the appropriate funds transferred into my account here (normally just use the atm as the rates have been getting more favorable) figured better to have some time period with the full amount in bank for them JIC... So, instead of going for a 30 day extention myself, the girlfriend, and my LOVELY daughter will be at immigration looking to get a one year... (The girlfriend will love waiting down there). Lite beer I googled for a thai copy of this order JIC they are unaware down there... Any ideas where I could acquire this... And what section shall I POLITELY cite, so as to not cause loss of face, if he is unaware of the changes??? Thanks again for everybodies help... Particularly terrenova.... I would have never even attempted a phone call to immigration... But thats what u get for assuming... Ill post after my attempt in about two months... Hopefully others will also, Always weary of new regulations and attempting to be the first one in... Anyhow gotta go feed my one year extention... Best dam_n thing ever happened to me in my life!!!

Thanks again...

A very beautiful daughter you have there. About 3 months old??? Congrats. I have one about 4 mths and feel much like you do about it.

[lodesafun]

a friend of mine is now having to do 15 day border runs as his one year visa has expired, he has heard that it may be possible to get a one year visa extension as his girlfriend has just had a baby and it has his surname on the birth certificate. my friend is from england

can anyone help?

Yes he can do this regardless of his age if he has 40,000 Baht monthly income OR 400,000 in a Thai bank.

Police Order. 2.18 (5)

I must of read this forum wrong. I was thinking that if you had the following items you might apply for a 1yr visa having to report every 90 days

I went down to Bangkok Immigration. with my Thai GF ( not my wife, but the mother of our child- we do live together) Our Daughter, My passport, baby's Passport (from my home country) baby's BC in Thai and English with me listed as the father, Statement from bank saying I had XXx baht in bank. ( more than the required amount, that has been in more than 3 months)

At the counter they had no clue as to what I was asking for and sent me to room 303. we got a number and ( my GF said after) sat the desk of the highest rank in the room and was told No such thing exist.

when I mentioned 2.18 she said I had to have sole guardianship. ( don't think mum is going for that).

So have I just read this forum wrong? or what else should I of done?

Looks like I'm just sticking with the 2 month double entry with exention for a few more years as I am less than 50 yrs and there seems to be no other option..

What am I not understanding here? IS there a way this can be done?

thanks for all replies.

Lodes

Edited December 23, 2008 by lodesafun

[lodesafun]

I phoned Korat Immigration and went through it with them.

They want a letter from your bank showing 400k for at least 60 days or evidence of 40k a month. Obviously they want your passport. They also want the birth certificate and the mother to go with you and the baby. I guess having the baby's passports would not be a bad thing either.

Korat seemed very up to speed on the phone and were aware of the removal of the 50 year old age stipulation.

what are we talking about here? does it relate to the 1 yr extention as I questioned above?

thanks as it seems I'm all confused.

[Lite Beer]

I phoned Korat Immigration and went through it with them.

They want a letter from your bank showing 400k for at least 60 days or evidence of 40k a month. Obviously they want your passport. They also want the birth certificate and the mother to go with you and the baby. I guess having the baby's passports would not be a bad thing either.

Korat seemed very up to speed on the phone and were aware of the removal of the 50 year old age stipulation.

what are we talking about here? does it relate to the 1 yr extention as I questioned above?

thanks as it seems I'm all confused.

Yes. We are talking about 2.18

2.18 In the case of a family

member of a Thai(applicable only to parents, spouse, child, adopted child or child

of his/her spouse):

Permission will be

granted for a period of

not more than 1 year at a time.

(1) The alien has obtained a temporary visa (NON-IM)

(2) Proof of family relationship

(5) In the case of a parent, one of parents must have an average annual income of not less than 40,000 baht per month or a money deposit of not less than 400,000 baht for expenses within a year.

There is no mention of sole guardianship. This rule is only 3 weeks old and has not been tested yet.

Different offices will have their own interperation of the rules. Have a look at Mario's post regarding being un married. Post No. 62

[marsteele]

Tell me if I understand this correctly... Im an american, 33 yrs old, and have a baby with my girlfriend... I always enter with a double entry tourist visa and usually come back and get another after 6 months, visit with friends and family in the US and go back to thailand... According to this police order they will allow me to stay for 60 days at a time... Do I just bring my Daughters Birth Certificate every 60 days to Immigration and they will give me another 60 days??? Please Correct me if I am misunderstanding something, or add any details or use of this in practice???

THANKS IN ADVANCE...

It always used to be a one time only thing. Ask Immigration.

Why don't you try for the 12 month extension under rule 2.18 (5)

I am Australian and like you I have a thai wife and child in thailand. I also always entered on a double entry visa which effectively gave me 6 months where I would then return to Aus and get another double entry visa. I now obtain a 1 yr visa which gives me unlimited entries into the country dury that period. When this visa expires I go back to Aust pay the $180 AUD get another 1 yr visa and go back no problems at all.

[ubonjoe]

Tell me if I understand this correctly... Im an american, 33 yrs old, and have a baby with my girlfriend... I always enter with a double entry tourist visa and usually come back and get another after 6 months, visit with friends and family in the US and go back to thailand... According to this police order they will allow me to stay for 60 days at a time... Do I just bring my Daughters Birth Certificate every 60 days to Immigration and they will give me another 60 days??? Please Correct me if I am misunderstanding something, or add any details or use of this in practice???

THANKS IN ADVANCE...

It always used to be a one time only thing. Ask Immigration.

Why don't you try for the 12 month extension under rule 2.18 (5)

I am Australian and like you I have a thai wife and child in thailand. I also always entered on a double entry visa which effectively gave me 6 months where I would then return to Aus and get another double entry visa. I now obtain a 1 yr visa which gives me unlimited entries into the country dury that period. When this visa expires I go back to Aust pay the $180 AUD get another 1 yr visa and go back no problems at all.

Yes can do the same thing in the states. Just apply at a Thai consulate for a multiple entry non immigrant O visa. Best though to do it at an honorary consulate. A translated copy of birth ceritificate would be useful for some of those. Houston is good choice.

List of consulates here using pull down menu at top of page: http://www.thaiembdc.org/AboutEmb/EmbDirect.aspx

[MZurf]

Do I apply for a 12 month extension here or back home??? Have u heard of anyone that has been successful at this? What would I need to show in Jomtien??? Or should I parade the girlfriend and baby into immigration and guilt them into it?

Thanks...

Guilt implies conscience.....

[touch]

A quick Heads Up!!

I got a phone call from Immigration at Suan Plu on Dec. 23.

They were very sorry, but under the new regulations even over 50 and living with Thai child had to show 400K in the bank!!

Asked them why they had previously said that it was not applicable to over 50's and only a new regulation to make it easier for younger parents to live with their child.

As you can imagine, I didn't get a straight answer to that one...........

Anyway, I have added a letter from my bank to my application today and they said that it would be ready on January 9 as previously promised. I'll probably pick it up around the 12th. In the meantime I'll keep my fingers crossed that they won't call with any additional requirements.

One positive thing is that since subsection 5 doesn't specify any time that the money has to be in the bank before application they said that "on the day of application" the money had to be present. Not "two months before" that one is for "Thai Wife" under sub 6.

This time I spoke with the police inspector at Suan Plu and she was a bit miffed that they were changing the regulations again (more work, and irate customers), for them. She said that several foreigners that had had "Thai Child" with no money to show under the old regulation had had to leave the country and try for a visa at a Thai Embassy abroad.

She suggested that we i.e. "foreigners" might want to drop a note in the suggestions box that they have and ask not to have new regulations without grand fathering.

I have already done that and I suggest that everybody that reads this does the same.

We can’t argue that they shouldn’t be allowed to change the rules as they please, but at least allow grandfathering.

//t

[ubonjoe]

touch

Thanks for the info.

There is this in 2.18 (5).

"In other necessary circumstances, The Immigration Commissioner or Deputy of Immigration Commissioner may approve on case to case basis."

IMHO they have fixed an error in the previous police order that did not include the financial requirements and also the 50 year age clause. That is why there is no grandfather clause like there is for the marriage extensions.

Suggestion and complaints can also made via this webpage on the immigration website.

http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/ba...hp?page=comment

[madmitch]

I currently have a retirement visa and have to show 800,000 baht.

I also have a Thai daughter who lives with me and her mother. We are not married. My name is not on the birth certificate.

With the current unfavourable rates of exchange I would like to bring as little money as is absolutely necessary into Thailand, therefore would like to change from the retirement visa to the one being discussed in this thread.

A simple question: do you think this will be straightforward with all the correct documentation or will it be a typically difficult transfer?

Or should I simply enquire next time I do my 90 day reporting?

[Lite Beer]

I currently have a retirement visa and have to show 800,000 baht.

I also have a Thai daughter who lives with me and her mother. We are not married. My name is not on the birth certificate.

With the current unfavourable rates of exchange I would like to bring as little money as is absolutely necessary into Thailand, therefore would like to change from the retirement visa to the one being discussed in this thread.

A simple question: do you think this will be straightforward with all the correct documentation or will it be a typically difficult transfer?

Or should I simply enquire next time I do my 90 day reporting?

If you read through this thread you will see that it is not straight forward if you are not married and certainly if you are not on the birth certificate.

Probably a good idea to have a chat with Immigration.

[Mario2008]

I currently have a retirement visa and have to show 800,000 baht.

I also have a Thai daughter who lives with me and her mother. We are not married. My name is not on the birth certificate.

With the current unfavourable rates of exchange I would like to bring as little money as is absolutely necessary into Thailand, therefore would like to change from the retirement visa to the one being discussed in this thread.

A simple question: do you think this will be straightforward with all the correct documentation or will it be a typically difficult transfer?

Or should I simply enquire next time I do my 90 day reporting?

Fatherhood can mean 3 things:

- social

- biological

- legal

As you said you are not married and not even named on the birth certificate as the father. In practise that means from a legal point of view you are not the father of the child as you don't have declared (recognized) before the law that the child is yours. Legal fatherhood that is what will count for immigration.

[ubonjoe]

I also have a Thai daughter who lives with me and her mother. We are not married. My name is not on the birth certificate.

You and your girlfriend need to inquire at the Amphoe (dsitrict office) about changing the birth certificate to show you as the childs father. Even if you don't get the extention that will be needed so that if in the future you want to apply for citizenship of your home country for her.

[kakalai]

The original poster asked...

a friend of mine is now having to do 15 day border runs as his one year visa has expired, he has heard that it may be possible to get a one year visa extension as his girlfriend has just had a baby and it has his surname on the birth certificate. my friend is from england

can anyone help?

The Thai Police Order 777/2551 states:

2.18 In the case of a family member of a Thai... (1) The alien has obtained a temporary visa (NON-IM)

THerefore, my understanding is that in order to obtain a one year visa extension, the individual first has to obtain a visa, specifically a NON-IM visa (15 day permit to stay not being a visa). To do this he would have to leave the coujntry and go to a consulate.

Land of smiles?

Land of confusion!

[Mario2008]

It is possible to convert a visa exempt entry or tourist visa into a non-immigrant visa. It requires 2 things:

1. you need to have at least 21 days left on your permission to stay

2. you need to fulfill the stricter requirements for an anual extension of stay, NOT the requirements for the visa itself.

[kakalai]

It is possible to convert a visa exempt entry or tourist visa into a non-immigrant visa. It requires 2 things:

1. you need to have at least 21 days left on your permission to stay

2. you need to fulfill the stricter requirements for an anual extension of stay, NOT the requirements for the visa itself.

Thanks Mario2008, I wasn't aware of that.

So in the case in question, because of the 21 day requirement, the advice would be to next time enter the country not over land but via an airport. This will give a 30 day visa exempt entry which will then allow the opportunity to convert to a non-immigrant visa and then request an extension to stay?

What could go wrong!

Edited December 26, 2008 by kakalai

[Mario2008]

Correct, go by air or apply for a tourist visa. But going for a visa getting a non-immigrant right away would be the easyest way.

[kakalai]

With a child, rather than marriage, does the 21 day requirement apply? I ask because of what it says on:

http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/ba...p?page=service#

under "Change Visa" / "For a family member of a Thai (applicable only parents, spouse or child)"

In case of no children, the application must be submitted 21 days before visa expiration...

Which could be interpreted as "in the case of children, there is no 21 day requirement". Or am I way off the mark here?

[ubonjoe]

Immigration wants the 21 days for all change of visa status applications not just this this type.

[madmitch]

I also have a Thai daughter who lives with me and her mother. We are not married. My name is not on the birth certificate.

You and your girlfriend need to inquire at the Amphoe (dsitrict office) about changing the birth certificate to show you as the childs father. Even if you don't get the extention that will be needed so that if in the future you want to apply for citizenship of your home country for her.

I should have read my post before posting it.

I AM named as the father on the birth certificate!

[Mario2008]

Make sure you have also legalised the child (recognized it as yours). Only being named is not enough to be the leagl father in the case you are not marrried to the mother. In essence: you had to be the one to register the birth at the amphur. If somebody other then you did this you are not the legal father.

[ubonjoe]

Make sure you have also legalised the child (recognized it as yours). Only being named is not enough to be the leagl father in the case you are not marrried to the mother. In essence: you had to be the one to register the birth at the amphur. If somebody other then you did this you are not the legal father.

The only immigration office that has been reported to want anything more than the birth certificate has been Pattaya. You are the only one that has posted this issue about being there when the birth is registered. Can you supply some more info please.

[Maestro]

If the child is at least seven years old immigration officers usually accept the child’s word and signature that the applicant for extension is the father. With a younger child, some immigration offices ask for a court document to confirm the fatherhood. I have never seen this court document and do not know what it says exactly.

A few immigration offices do not how how to deal with this type of application and thus refuse to accept it outright.

--

Maestro

[Mario2008]

Make sure you have also legalised the child (recognized it as yours). Only being named is not enough to be the leagl father in the case you are not marrried to the mother. In essence: you had to be the one to register the birth at the amphur. If somebody other then you did this you are not the legal father.

The only immigration office that has been reported to want anything more than the birth certificate has been Pattaya. You are the only one that has posted this issue about being there when the birth is registered. Can you supply some more info please.

I wasn't talking about the requirements from immigration, I was talking about the legal requirements to be the father.

Article 1547 of the Thai Civil Code states:

"A child born of the parents who are not married to each other is legitimated by the subsequent marriage of the parents, or by registration made on application by the father, or by a judgment of the Court."

Immigration might or might not just accept a BC without checking if the father has legalised the child.

[Maestro]

Thank you, Mario, for citing the legal basis for the recognition of a child by an unmarried parent.

Judgment of the court. This must be the document that some members indicated they had to get for a child below seven years for the application of extension of stay.

Registration made on application. I wonder where this application for registration would have to be made. The amphur office? Or is it a court? Has anybody got experience with this?

--

Maestro

[Mario2008]

It is my understanding that the registration made on application means the registration at the amphur. That is also what my embassy claims. Note that the article says: or by registration made on application by the father, or by a judgment of the Court."

Edit:

My embassy website states that registration of a birth has to be done within 15 days at the amphur, where the birth took place.

Registration contains the folowing details:

- the details of the child

- the details of the mother

- the details of the father

- the details of the person registering

Edited December 27, 2008 by Mario2008

[Maestro]

I don't know but perhaps "registration made on application", if it produces an official document confirming parenthood in addition to the already existing child's birth certificate, could save the unmarried father of the child expenses and time delay.

--

Maestro

[Mario2008]

If not married the father has to do the child registering himself, or he will not be the legal father. In the family and children section there was a case with a Dutch father named on the BC, registered by the hospital. The Dutch embassy say's the named father is not the same as the person registering the birth, hence the father didn't legalise the child. That is what is meant registration made on application.

I saw a few post from people being told by their amphur that the need to go to court to be namend on the birth certificate, whne they wanted to legalise their child. So legalisation of the child after registration of the birth is possible, but needs to be done through the courts.

That would be my interpretation of the Thai law, but isaanlawyers can shine a better light on this then I.