Is Tg In Trouble?

[Xangsamhua]

Various posts in different threads refer to TG cutting flights, being seriously under-booked, increasing upgrade requirements, etc. Are they in any serious trouble or is it just a response to the increased costs when oil was up and the loss of business during the airport closure?

[colte]

Various posts in different threads refer to TG cutting flights, being seriously under-booked, increasing upgrade requirements, etc. Are they in any serious trouble or is it just a response to the increased costs when oil was up and the loss of business during the airport closure?

I have been in aviation for 35 years, and I am sure they are in very deep trouble.

They are way overstaffed, plagued by civil service mentality in the higher echalons and pretty inefficient. They were weakened like all carriers by the oil crisis and then hit very hard by the prolonged closure of their main base. We may never know how bad it is as they are still a traditional state airline.

The whole industry is in deep decline, so with the tourist season here having been decimated by a national political debacle, I think many jobs in the travel sector will be lost.

Maybe one or two local based airlines will disappear - but TG is likely to survive with government intervention. Probably more risky to book on some of the other carriers in Thailand than TG.

[samuiseagull]

Mrs Samuiseagull's Sister works for Thai Airways and, like a large proportion of staff at the Airline is being 'docked' a few days wages in order to give them some breathing space over last months troubles.

Many global companies are now giving their staff extra time-off over Christmas just in order to attempt to balance the books. Vauxhall Motors UK have offered their staff a nine month sabatical paying just a third of their wage if they take up the offer.

Hard times all over the World in an ever increasing downturn of all major industries.

[sorensen]

TG reported a loss of $300 million in Q2, more than $3,000,000 a day in losses. I haven't followed TG's revenue since then, but I am sure they are still in the red.

That said, I doubt they will file for Chapter 11 anytime soon, so our miles should be save.

[T_Dog]

If you go to eturbonews and search on Thai Airways, you should be able to find an article they did back in November.

http://www.eturbonews.com/

[CbrLad]

TG reported a loss of $300 million in Q2, more than $3,000,000 a day in losses. I haven't followed TG's revenue since then, but I am sure they are still in the red.

That said, I doubt they will file for Chapter 11 anytime soon, so our miles should be save.

They sure the hel_l won't be filling for Chapter 11 because they are not a US company!

I would think if they were to go bankrupt the government of the day would come to their rescue. In countries like Thailand having a flag carrier is just too important to let one go bankrupt.

[cclub75]

Yes.

"the situation seems to be getting worse" said the... president of the airline.

http://thaicrisis.wordpress.com/2008/11/06...-getting-worse/

And that was before the circus of the airport blockade.

There is no chapter 11 of course in Thailand. The state, as the main shareholder, will pay. No escape.

So TG will survive, make no mistake. The thai authorities would never let down the "national carrier". Prestige is at stake.

But it will cost a lot... And this money will be lost. In a never ending black hole.

[venturalaw]

Yes.

"the situation seems to be getting worse" said the... president of the airline.

http://thaicrisis.wordpress.com/2008/11/06...-getting-worse/

And that was before the circus of the airport blockade.

There is no chapter 11 of course in Thailand. The state, as the main shareholder, will pay. No escape.

So TG will survive, make no mistake. The thai authorities would never let down the "national carrier". Prestige is at stake.

But it will cost a lot... And this money will be lost. In a never ending black hole.

Similar to the US bailout. Money being thrown away.

[TJAN]

TG reported a loss of $300 million in Q2, more than $3,000,000 a day in losses. I haven't followed TG's revenue since then, but I am sure they are still in the red.

That said, I doubt they will file for Chapter 11 anytime soon, so our miles should be save.

They sure the hel_l won't be filling for Chapter 11 because they are not a US company!

I would think if they were to go bankrupt the government of the day would come to their rescue. In countries like Thailand having a flag carrier is just too important to let one go bankrupt.

They are not a US company but even so if they where there wont be able to use chapter 11 because very soon the whole of the usa would be on chapter 11,thanks to Bush.

[Alwaysright]

TG reported a loss of $300 million in Q2, more than $3,000,000 a day in losses. I haven't followed TG's revenue since then, but I am sure they are still in the red.

That said, I doubt they will file for Chapter 11 anytime soon, so our miles should be save.

They sure the hel_l won't be filling for Chapter 11 because they are not a US company!

I would think if they were to go bankrupt the government of the day would come to their rescue. In countries like Thailand having a flag carrier is just too important to let one go bankrupt.

They are not a US company but even so if they where there wont be able to use chapter 11 because very soon the whole of the usa would be on chapter 11,thanks to Bush.

Why blame Bush it is the peoples fault for borrowing too much and buying foreign products.NOBAMA will destroy the country.

[Chaimai]

So TG will survive, make no mistake. The thai authorities would never let down the "national carrier". Prestige is at stake.

I certainly hope so. Just booked LHR/BKK for June at £528 - Thai was £120 cheaper than EVA who were the next cheapest direct flight and only £50 dearer than carriers with a stopover in the Middle East.

[TJAN]

TG reported a loss of $300 million in Q2, more than $3,000,000 a day in losses. I haven't followed TG's revenue since then, but I am sure they are still in the red.

That said, I doubt they will file for Chapter 11 anytime soon, so our miles should be save.

They sure the hel_l won't be filling for Chapter 11 because they are not a US company!

I would think if they were to go bankrupt the government of the day would come to their rescue. In countries like Thailand having a flag carrier is just too important to let one go bankrupt.

They are not a US company but even so if they where there wont be able to use chapter 11 because very soon the whole of the usa would be on chapter 11,thanks to Bush.

Why blame Bush it is the peoples fault for borrowing too much and buying foreign products.NOBAMA will destroy the country.

Because Bush enforced to loan people more then they could afford,You sound like a arrogant "always right"but you make a better change with Obama then with that lair Bush and his right hand Halliburton Cheney.And its not only the usa they put in the shit but also the rest of the world.Lets move on and forget that ashole Bush you voted for twice.

[steelepulse]

>>Because Bush enforced to loan people more then they could afford

Enforced?  How?  Sure you're using the right word there?  Even if you changed "enforced" to "forced", that's still not correct.

[sorensen]

>>Because Bush enforced to loan people more then they could afford

Enforced? How? Sure you're using the right word there? Even if you changed "enforced" to "forced", that's still not correct.

Maybe the correct word is: encouraged

[angiud]

You should talk about Thai Airways, not about Bush.

P.S.: Bush Go Home!

[PhilHarries]

I would guess that, all things being equal, THAI would go down the same route as Alitalia into forriegn ownership.

But this is Thailand and all things are not equal and the thought of foriegn ownership of the national carrier would be just way too much for most. On top of that foriegn ownership would bring in foriegn management methods and efficiencies with the resulting loss of jobs leading to a blockade of the airport. Round and round down the spiral slipway they would go.

No, as has been said, the loss of face would be too much and a government bailout seems most likely. Like the US auto industry, to bring the thread back on topic of Bushonomics , nothing will change the money will get absorbed and the business will lumber on outdated and inefficient.

[asanee]

restricting the comparisons to nearby countries with their national-pride airlines:

remember how Phillippine got down the drains. Had a similar reputation as TG in its prime years-a welll-praised airline-in the late 80ies/early 90ies.

Royal Brunei once had good direct flights FRA/LH-BKK-Brunei-not much left of that.

In the poorer league, PIA/Pakistan and Bangala/Biman are only fit for locals from there now.

Indeed much similar to how Alitalia went down- but then even some highly praised airline like the old SWISSair went bankrupt-wanted to be too large for the small country

[bkk_mike]

It's a majority state-owned flag carrier, so it will survive.

The question of what International routes it might cut is another. With a big downturn in tourism, especially if they bring in the A380s as planned, they could cut Frankfurt, and/or London to one flight a day, and flights to places such as Copenhagen/Zurich could be cut like the flight to New York has already, or at least the frequency cut back.

But it's down to the government really.

If they take the decision to run the airline at a loss until tourism recovers (i.e. have cheap flights to help it recover), they could keep all the existing routes. Cutting routes will simply reduce the total possible number of tourists, so the hotels will have no chance, except to try for local Thai tourists to fill the empty rooms.

[BarryM]

I suspect that many of their premium seats are either given away or sold as id90s to "friends amd family". Travelling first class to LHR 5 or 6 times a year the Thai passengers I speak to are very seldom paying for their tickets.

[Briggsy]

It's a majority state-owned flag carrier, so it will survive.

The question of what International routes it might cut is another. With a big downturn in tourism, especially if they bring in the A380s as planned, they could cut Frankfurt, and/or London to one flight a day, and flights to places such as Copenhagen/Zurich could be cut like the flight to New York has already, or at least the frequency cut back.

But it's down to the government really.

If they take the decision to run the airline at a loss until tourism recovers (i.e. have cheap flights to help it recover), they could keep all the existing routes. Cutting routes will simply reduce the total possible number of tourists, so the hotels will have no chance, except to try for local Thai tourists to fill the empty rooms.

Have to agree with this post.

[neverdie]

The scarey thing is that when an airline starts to suffer financially, the first thing to suffer is normally the safety maintenance schedules.

I recall when Ansett went broke a few years ago, things started disappearing from inside the aircraft....nothing too serious, just life vests, safety slides, fire extinguishers etc ....only the stuff you need in an emergency situation .

As history has shown with aircraft accidents, when human error isnt involved, its normally so abscure little part somewhere that wasnt replaced or serviced when it should of been that downs the aircraft. I wonder what maintance schedules have been adjusted at thai recently?

[Jimjim]

As many say, I suspect they won't go under as they are the flagship airline of Thailand and thus government supported. Seems like there was controversy recently, before the protests got bad, about the government (PPP?) messing about with the executive roles and the corruption and inefficiency that was going on because of that.

[think_too_mut]

The scarey thing is that when an airline starts to suffer financially, the first thing to suffer is normally the safety maintenance schedules.

I recall when Ansett went broke a few years ago, things started disappearing from inside the aircraft....nothing too serious, just life vests, safety slides, fire extinguishers etc ....only the stuff you need in an emergency situation .

That's rubbish. Reducing safety never comes on the agenda of any airline.

Who would ever want, for what purpose, the life jackets? What can they do with the items removed from the aircrafts?

Do you know what "safety slide" is? You would need a tractor to take it away, alllowed to meet the plane on the tarmac.

Perhaps, on the last flights of Ansett, some air transport fans wanted something with the Ansett insignia to keep. Nobody flew on those planes after them.

[TBWG]

Who would ever want, for what purpose, the life jackets? What can they do with the items removed from the aircrafts?

Well from my aviation Insurance days the majority of sailors down south on the Atlantic coast must have a Delta Airlines life jacket.

They managed to loose hundreds every month!

TBWG

[geriatrickid]

TGs loads were at capacity for the christmas week, with oversells on 24-27 December. If you want an indication of load during the peak of peak, have a look at booking availability at TG website. I was lucky to get a flight from BKK a couple days ago. Air Asia, had lots of seat availability, as did Bangkok Airways. This suggest to me that there lots of foreign arrivals using connections from Star Alliance and EVA. Had there been loads of empty seats, I'd have said TG would have cut massively come January 30. Now I think, they will try to hold off until after Q1.

Hoever, I definitely do observe deferral of cabin maintenance. The B777 fleet is getting worn and the A300 series is decrepit. it's 2008/2009 and they still have CRT screens in the cabins? Heavy & heat generators. Something aint right when they didn't upgrade to LCD technology a few years ago. Look at the seats. On one of my B777 flights, seat buttomns were broken - worn out. On another flight my A300 seat cushion was finished. All suggestions that thhere is no money available.

[neverdie]

The scarey thing is that when an airline starts to suffer financially, the first thing to suffer is normally the safety maintenance schedules.

I recall when Ansett went broke a few years ago, things started disappearing from inside the aircraft....nothing too serious, just life vests, safety slides, fire extinguishers etc ....only the stuff you need in an emergency situation .

That's rubbish. Reducing safety never comes on the agenda of any airline.

Who would ever want, for what purpose, the life jackets? What can they do with the items removed from the aircrafts?

Do you know what "safety slide" is? You would need a tractor to take it away, alllowed to meet the plane on the tarmac.

Perhaps, on the last flights of Ansett, some air transport fans wanted something with the Ansett insignia to keep. Nobody flew on those planes after them.

THINK TOO MUT....you would be surprised, there was actually court action taken against Ansett airlines (whilst they were still in operation) for missing safety gear & the issues surrounding this were publicised at the time. I will try to find you a link or some other info. Yes I know what a safety slide is.....I have actually trained on one. I wasnt suggesting that people were removing these items, I was suggesting that the company did & thus thats why they were prosecuted. A number of their planes were apparently grounded some time before their operations ceased.

As for being on an Airlines agenda to reduce safety standards I did not actually try to say it is written policy that the first thing they do is that, BUT many Airlines are presently looking at their costs & it is they look at maintance schedules & where 'they'see fit, they adjust the timing & frequency of maintance shedules. Other Airlines also look at moving their maintance operations offshore, just like qantas did a little while ago.

If you are aware of the programs offered on tv about Airline Investigation and so forth, there is actually a book collection that most of those programs are based on, naturally the books go into this alot further than the hour long tv program & they actually have copies of maintance schedules & things like that in them, you won't find the books in book stores, they are big & expensive, I had a close family friend that was an flight engineer on a 747SP based in a certain arab country, who lent me his books. Having said all of that this problem has been identified time and time again over the years.

Unfortunately I have had too much to do with the airline industry thru work, family & that, i not talk thru hat!

You have a nice day & remember to buckle up & put your head between your knees when the plane goes down....afterall the purpose of that is to assist with identification when you can no longer speak.

[sibeymai]

That's rubbish. Reducing safety never comes on the agenda of any airline......

Guess you never heard of K. Udom at 1-2-Go/Orient Thai then ?

Edited December 29, 2008 by sibeymai

[neverdie]

The scarey thing is that when an airline starts to suffer financially, the first thing to suffer is normally the safety maintenance schedules.

I recall when Ansett went broke a few years ago, things started disappearing from inside the aircraft....nothing too serious, just life vests, safety slides, fire extinguishers etc ....only the stuff you need in an emergency situation .

That's rubbish. Reducing safety never comes on the agenda of any airline.

Who would ever want, for what purpose, the life jackets? What can they do with the items removed from the aircrafts?

Do you know what "safety slide" is? You would need a tractor to take it away, alllowed to meet the plane on the tarmac.

Perhaps, on the last flights of Ansett, some air transport fans wanted something with the Ansett insignia to keep. Nobody flew on those planes after them.

TTM,

I am having a pc problems providing a link, thought I would attach this below...anyone can do a search & see about it, theres heaps of info that goes like this:-

Australian aviation authorities have said they cannot predict when embattled Ansett Airlines will be able to get the first of its grounded fleet of 10 Boeing 767s back into the air. The Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA) grounded Ansett's 767 jets last Thursday because of poor maintenance – the latest in a chain of problems at Australia's second largest airline.

Source: The Independant World,17th April 2001

Theres stacks of data & information on this type of thing.

[sorensen]

That's rubbish. Reducing safety never comes on the agenda of any airline......

Guess you never heard of K. Udom at 1-2-Go/Thai Orient then ?

If safety and maintenance is such a big issue, maybe we should start a tread "Count down to the first TG crash", then we could all guess a date and see who come closest.

August 8, 2009. Anobody else?

[neverdie]

Hey TTM,

There is another site that talks about more shocking things than what Ansett did, have a look at Airline Safety Records dot com.... some great stuff in there.

My best source of this all is my memory and internal knowledge

Have a nice day & please be kinder with your rubbish claims next time

xx