More Ecomomic Gloom

[misterman21]

The governor of the Bank of Spain on Sunday issued a bleak assessment of the economic crisis, warning that the world faced a "total" financial meltdown unseen since the Great Depression.

"The lack of confidence is total," Miguel Angel Fernandez Ordonez said in an interview with Spain's El Pais daily.

"The inter-bank (lending) market is not functioning and this is generating vicious cycles: consumers are not consuming, businessmen are not taking on workers, investors are not investing and the banks are not lending.

"There is an almost total paralysis from which no-one is escaping," he said, adding that any recovery -- pencilled in by optimists for the end of 2009 and the start of 2010 -- could be delayed if confidence is not restored.

Ordonez recognised that falling oil prices and lower taxes could kick-start a faster-than-anticipated recovery, but warned that a deepening cycle of falling consumer demand, rising unemployment and an ongoing lending squeeze could not be ruled out. "This is the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression" of 1929, he added.

[neverdie]

A financial Meltdown.....what does this mean actually, it seems to get bandied around alot these days, but what does it really mean?

[Jingthing]

It means massive global unemployment, massive global business failures, massive global wealth devaluation, massive global starvation and disease, the rise in power of totalitarian regimes of the right and left pandering to desperate populations, almost always mixed in with global warfare. Simply read your history books. Any radical efforts governments are now making to prevent this are worth the risk.

Edited December 22, 2008 by Jingthing

[MJP]

It means massive global unemployment, massive global business failures, massive global wealth devaluation, massive global starvation and disease, almost always mixed in with global warfare. Simply read your history books. Any radical efforts governments are now making to prevent this are worth the risk.

God I hate Mondays.

[misterman21]

It means massive global unemployment, massive global business failures, massive global wealth devaluation, massive global starvation and disease, the rise in power of totalitarian regimes of the right and left pandering to desperate populations, almost always mixed in with global warfare. Simply read your history books. Any radical efforts governments are now making to prevent this are worth the risk.

Couldn't have put it better myself! But be aware that the 2nd wave will dwarf the first 'subprime' debacle

Thought the global financial crisis was over? Far from it: The second wave of bankruptcies and financial institution failures is now upon us. Expect a tidal wave of commercial bankruptcies this holiday season. And now, even those companies bailed out by the Fed are needing a second bailout. The dollar is rapidly imploding and will inevitably be wiped out

Edited December 22, 2008 by misterman21

[cclub75]

Absolutly not. The market is healthy. And we are all going to buy more condos in Bangkok.

Oh... by the way... thai's exports in novembre... are crashing.

http://thaicrisis.wordpress.com/2008/12/22...n-november-186/

Overall, we should remain optimistic. The plunge was 26 % for Japan. So Thailand did better.

Everything is fine.

[misterman21]

Absolutly not. The market is healthy. And we are all going to buy more condos in Bangkok.

Oh... by the way... thai's exports in novembre... are crashing.

http://thaicrisis.wordpress.com/2008/12/22...n-november-186/

Overall, we should remain optimistic. The plunge was 26 % for Japan. So Thailand did better.

Everything is fine.

I agree, I was talking to some Aussie sales guy in the Loyin Garden at his 'Condo Sales Pitch' and he gauranteed that sales where on the rise. "Never been a better time to buy.'

[Jingthing]

To paraphrase Chairman Mao:

A global economic meltdown is not a garden party.

What are people supposed to do to prepare for such an unfortunate occurrence? Convert to gold, buy food stores, and guns? Too gloomy for me. I think most of us will be victims if this happens.

[lannarebirth]

I recall seeing that retail sales had fallen in the US last month by 1.2% The headlines said it had gone "off a cliff", while I was thinking "that's a step in the right direction". Rampant consumerism is not a good thing and is cerrtainly unsustainable.

Edited December 22, 2008 by lannarebirth

[neverdie]

It means massive global unemployment, massive global business failures, massive global wealth devaluation, massive global starvation and disease, almost always mixed in with global warfare. Simply read your history books. Any radical efforts governments are now making to prevent this are worth the risk.

God I hate Mondays.

Are you suggesting Jingthing, that I stock up on canned beans?

[Jingthing]

If you like canned beans. I am more of a fatalistic, mai bpen rai kind of person. If all turns to shit, well, it was a nice ride. I can't relate to survivalists.

Edited December 22, 2008 by Jingthing

[misterman21]

I reall seeing that retail sales had fallen in the US last month by 1.2% The headlines said it had gone "off a cliff", while I was thinking "that's a step in the right direction". Rampant consumerism is not a good thing and is cerrtainly unsustainable.

So you conclude????????? Are you suggesting that worldwide finacial turmoil is somehow a good thing????

[lannarebirth]

I reall seeing that retail sales had fallen in the US last month by 1.2% The headlines said it had gone "off a cliff", while I was thinking "that's a step in the right direction". Rampant consumerism is not a good thing and is cerrtainly unsustainable.

So you conclude????????? Are you suggesting that worldwide finacial turmoil is somehow a good thing????

My conclusion was that I hoped after whatever correction might come a more sustainable economy might emerge. I'm not particuarly hopeful on that score.

[MeetJohnDoe]

Toyota, the world's largest and most successful automaker, just reported it's first full-year loss in 71 years! It may have to reduce/suspend its dividend for the first time in 60 years.

Next year is looking mighty challenging

[cclub75]

Toyota, the world's largest and most successful automaker, just reported it's first full-year loss in 71 years! It may have to reduce/suspend its dividend for the first time in 60 years.

There is a very simple acid test to do if I may say : in the daily news flow, count the number of occurences of the words "historic", "never seen before", "first time since datas are compiled" etc.

You get the picture.

I'm not joking : since 1 or 2 months it's absolutly striking. And it says a lot about the scale of the current crisis.

[LaoPo]

The governor of the Bank of Spain on Sunday issued a bleak assessment of the economic crisis, warning that the world faced a "total" financial meltdown unseen since the Great Depression.

"The lack of confidence is total," Miguel Angel Fernandez Ordonez said in an interview with Spain's El Pais daily.

"The inter-bank (lending) market is not functioning and this is generating vicious cycles: consumers are not consuming, businessmen are not taking on workers, investors are not investing and the banks are not lending.

"There is an almost total paralysis from which no-one is escaping," he said, adding that any recovery -- pencilled in by optimists for the end of 2009 and the start of 2010 -- could be delayed if confidence is not restored.

Ordonez recognised that falling oil prices and lower taxes could kick-start a faster-than-anticipated recovery, but warned that a deepening cycle of falling consumer demand, rising unemployment and an ongoing lending squeeze could not be ruled out. "This is the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression" of 1929, he added.

Unheard of that a chairman (governor) of a(ny) Central Bank uses such words. It's the same as throwing oil into a fire.

I am the last to deny that Spain is in big trouble, with 1,6 MILLION houses on the market (on a population of 40 million) and an ever increasing unemployment of now almost 13% on a labor force of 22,2 million.

On top of that Spain accepted some 700,000 illegals a few years back and the country can't carry the weight of the immense problems anymore.

I know quite a few people in Spain, and I tell you...it's BAD....very very bad. But the causes in Spain are different than the ones in the UK and Ireland, to name a few more bad apples in the basket, together with the USA.

Spain kept on building houses, more than the UK, Germany and Italy combined last year and this year (per year !).

That's asking for big trouble.

They're in that nasty situation now and it's getting worse.

But, that the Central Bank Governor uses such words in bringing extra fear into the market, cutting the meager spending by the population even more.

LaoPo

[lannarebirth]

The governor of the Bank of Spain on Sunday issued a bleak assessment of the economic crisis, warning that the world faced a "total" financial meltdown unseen since the Great Depression.

"The lack of confidence is total," Miguel Angel Fernandez Ordonez said in an interview with Spain's El Pais daily.

"The inter-bank (lending) market is not functioning and this is generating vicious cycles: consumers are not consuming, businessmen are not taking on workers, investors are not investing and the banks are not lending.

"There is an almost total paralysis from which no-one is escaping," he said, adding that any recovery -- pencilled in by optimists for the end of 2009 and the start of 2010 -- could be delayed if confidence is not restored.

Ordonez recognised that falling oil prices and lower taxes could kick-start a faster-than-anticipated recovery, but warned that a deepening cycle of falling consumer demand, rising unemployment and an ongoing lending squeeze could not be ruled out. "This is the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression" of 1929, he added.

Unheard of that a chairman (governor) of a(ny) Central Bank uses such words. It's the same as throwing oil into a fire.

I am the last to deny that Spain is in big trouble, with 1,6 MILLION houses on the market (on a population of 40 million) and an ever increasing unemployment of now almost 13% on a labor force of 22,2 million.

On top of that Spain accepted some 700,000 illegals a few years back and the country can't carry the weight of the immense problems anymore.

I know quite a few people in Spain, and I tell you...it's BAD....very very bad. But the causes in Spain are different than the ones in the UK and Ireland, to name a few more bad apples in the basket, together with the USA.

Spain kept on building houses, more than the UK, Germany and Italy combined last year and this year (per year !).

That's asking for big trouble.

They're in that nasty situation now and it's getting worse.

But, that the Central Bank Governor uses such words in bringing extra fear into the market, cutting the meager spending by the population even more.

LaoPo

Is not Spain also a very big lender to Central and South America? How secure are those debt obligations and will other Euro Zone countries help them or is it every country for themselves?

[Naam]

I reall seeing that retail sales had fallen in the US last month by 1.2% The headlines said it had gone "off a cliff", while I was thinking "that's a step in the right direction". Rampant consumerism is not a good thing and is cerrtainly unsustainable.

So you conclude????????? Are you suggesting that worldwide finacial turmoil is somehow a good thing????

My conclusion was that I hoped after whatever correction might come a more sustainable economy might emerge. I'm not particuarly hopeful on that score.

Gentlemen,

my conclusion is that this turmoil is indeed a good thing and i have one single reason to defend my point. imagine the financial bubble did not start to burst in the middle of 2007 and the fine bankers, hedge funds, fraudsters et al had several more years to invent financial perpetuum mobiles, "derive more derivatives", bullsh*tting an even greater number of investors and shareholders and last not least taxpayers to bail them out. if that what the case we'd face a bubble and a breakdown of a multiple size than that we are facing now.

need i say more?

[cclub75]

Unheard of that a chairman (governor) of a(ny) Central Bank uses such words. It's the same as throwing oil into a fire.

On the contrary it's refreshing.

This guy has more merit than the clowns Trichet, Bernanke, Tarisa... Who speaks only the Novlang : everything will be fine, the situation is under control.

Remember LaoPo : "our banking system is sound", "our economy is resilient".

August 2008. Bush, Bernanke, Paulson. Even McCain the day of the collapse of Lehman, mid september...

Enough of the sellers of cheap pink gruel ! Nobody is fooled anymore.

We need a few Churchill for God's sake ! Men with vista. And balls. Men who are not afraid to call a damned cat... a damned cat.

Is it so complicated ?

Blood, Toil, Tears and Sweat.

This is how we will fight the crisis. Not with damned sweet words.

Edited December 22, 2008 by cclub75

[LaoPo]

Unheard of that a chairman (governor) of a(ny) Central Bank uses such words. It's the same as throwing oil into a fire.

On the contrary it's refreshing.

This guy has more merit than the clowns Trichet, Bernanke, Tarisa... Who speaks only the Novlang : everything will be fine, the situation is under control.

Remember LaoPo : "our banking system is sound", "our economy is resilient".

August 2008. Bush, Bernanke, Paulson. Even McCain the day of the collapse of Lehman, mid september...

Enough of the sellers of cheap pink gruel ! Nobody is fooled anymore.

We need a few Churchill for God's sake ! Men with vista. And balls. Men who are not afraid to call a damned cat... a damned cat.

Is it so complicated ?

Blood, Toil, Tears and Sweat.

This is how we will fight the crisis. Not with damned sweet words.

...OK, let's settle for Nouriel Roubini than.

Maybe Senor Miguel Angel Fernandez Ordonez (what a name....the Ladies will fall for him like raindrops on a Sunday afternoon ) had a phonecall with Roubini before he talked to El Pais...who knows ?

On a more serious note: Mr. Ordonez should bring confidence to the market -that's his job- and not talk more doom and gloom; we have Roubini, after all, don't we ?

LaoPo

[Khun Jean]

On a more serious note: Mr. Ordonez should bring confidence to the market -that's his job- and not talk more doom and gloom; we have Roubini, after all, don't we ?

You mean he should lie for 'the greater good'.

I for one applaud his action. At least there will be more people that take preparations.

How can you stop a bubble from bursting, i think it is impossible. Deflate the bubble a little might work, but then deflation is such a scary word for Keynesians.

Every problem has the same solution for them, throwing more money at it. This time it is the source of the problem.

Edited December 22, 2008 by Khun Jean

[LaoPo]

On a more serious note: Mr. Ordonez should bring confidence to the market -that's his job- and not talk more doom and gloom; we have Roubini, after all, don't we ?

You mean he should lie for 'the greater good'.

I for one applaud his action. At least there will be more people that take preparations.

How can you stop a bubble from bursting, i think it is impossible. Deflate the bubble a little might work, but then deflation is such a scary word for Keynesians.

Every problem has the same solution for them, throwing more money at it. This time it is the source of the problem.

No, I don't mean that he should lie. I am happy we have more subtle Central Bank Officials in the EU and we have enough doom and gloom talk every single minute on television already.

To talk to your country "warning that the world faced a "total" financial meltdown unseen since the Great Depression" is unnecessary talk and very dangerous, especially in Spain where the situation is already devastating and in a much more dramatic position than in most EU countries.

He should talk power talk, positive pep talk and not bring more doom talk.

Every single worker in Spain already KNOWS that he and the country is in deep <deleted>; he doesn't need his Central Banker to tell him there's more <deleted> to come and a possible world total financial meltdown. He doesn't want more salt into his financial wounds !

Not very sensible.

I much more prefer the gentle, direct but positive talk from our most important and influential man in the country, Mr. Alexander Rinnooy Kan, who spoke on television yesterday; but than again, The Netherlands is in much better shape than most EU countries, but still fragile.

LaoPo

[flying]

I recall seeing that retail sales had fallen in the US last month by 1.2% The headlines said it had gone "off a cliff", while I was thinking "that's a step in the right direction". Rampant consumerism is not a good thing and is cerrtainly unsustainable.

I think that number will rise as more follow JingThings advice & buy food..guns..etc.

imagine the financial bubble did not start to burst in the middle of 2007 and the fine bankers, hedge funds, fraudsters et al had several more years to invent financial perpetuum mobiles, "derive more derivatives", bullsh*tting an even greater number of investors and shareholders and last not least taxpayers to bail them out. if that what the case we'd face a bubble and a breakdown of a multiple size than that we are facing now.

need i say more?

Basically your saying we would be even more dead than dead?

Landslides ahead me thinks

On a more serious note: Mr. Ordonez should bring confidence to the market -that's his job- and not talk more doom and gloom; we have Roubini, after all, don't we ?

You mean he should lie for 'the greater good'.

I for one applaud his action. At least there will be more people that take preparations.

How can you stop a bubble from bursting, i think it is impossible. Deflate the bubble a little might work, but then deflation is such a scary word for Keynesians.

Every problem has the same solution for them, throwing more money at it. This time it is the source of the problem.

I agree & wish more would speak the cold hard truth. Should have started back when. But no it continues every morning as the *experts* say...hmmmm this could be the bottom.

Bail out was wrong & continues to prove itself wrong.

If they wanted to wipe the slate they should have started wiping the victims slates not the crooks.

[Mighty Mouse]

Recessions, depressions and world wars are the natural and quickest way to right the financial wrongs.

Governments need to stop thinking about losing votes and butt out with their useless and costly rescue packages.

[Jamesjimmy]

I reall seeing that retail sales had fallen in the US last month by 1.2% The headlines said it had gone "off a cliff", while I was thinking "that's a step in the right direction". Rampant consumerism is not a good thing and is cerrtainly unsustainable.

So you conclude????????? Are you suggesting that worldwide finacial turmoil is somehow a good thing????

My conclusion was that I hoped after whatever correction might come a more sustainable economy might emerge. I'm not particuarly hopeful on that score.

Gentlemen,

my conclusion is that this turmoil is indeed a good thing and i have one single reason to defend my point. imagine the financial bubble did not start to burst in the middle of 2007 and the fine bankers, hedge funds, fraudsters et al had several more years to invent financial perpetuum mobiles, "derive more derivatives", bullsh*tting an even greater number of investors and shareholders and last not least taxpayers to bail them out. if that what the case we'd face a bubble and a breakdown of a multiple size than that we are facing now.

need i say more?

PLEASE tell us more,more,more, and then some more,,, whats you point?, PLEASE tell us more,,, your so smart....so tell us more,,,

[Naam]

I reall seeing that retail sales had fallen in the US last month by 1.2% The headlines said it had gone "off a cliff", while I was thinking "that's a step in the right direction". Rampant consumerism is not a good thing and is cerrtainly unsustainable.

So you conclude????????? Are you suggesting that worldwide finacial turmoil is somehow a good thing????

My conclusion was that I hoped after whatever correction might come a more sustainable economy might emerge. I'm not particuarly hopeful on that score.

Gentlemen,

my conclusion is that this turmoil is indeed a good thing and i have one single reason to defend my point. imagine the financial bubble did not start to burst in the middle of 2007 and the fine bankers, hedge funds, fraudsters et al had several more years to invent financial perpetuum mobiles, "derive more derivatives", bullsh*tting an even greater number of investors and shareholders and last not least taxpayers to bail them out. if that what the case we'd face a bubble and a breakdown of a multiple size than that we are facing now.

need i say more?

PLEASE tell us more,more,more, and then some more,,, whats you point?, PLEASE tell us more,,, your so smart....so tell us more,,,

my point is that it does not make any sense to discuss the paint stroke and the paint mixture of a Rembrandt or Michelangelo with blind people (e.g. you)

[Naam]

Bail out was wrong & continues to prove itself wrong. If they wanted to wipe the slate they should have started wiping the victims slates not the crooks.

you are forgetting one important fact Flying. some months ago we were on the brink of a global financial freeze, meaning not even simple transfers or ATMs would have functioned if it had happened. in my [not so] humble view most of the banker bàstàrds were well aware of this danger and "banked" on government bail-outs because alternatives did not exist.

[Mighty Mouse]

Turn your speakers on and have a listen

This is the US housing bubble unraveling. This bubble took years to create. (thanks largely to Greenspan) It won't be fixed with the bail out package, and it won't be fixed any time soon.

Fasten your seat belts folks, you ain't seen nuthin' yet.

[MJP]

Toyota, the world's largest and most successful automaker, just reported it's first full-year loss in 71 years! It may have to reduce/suspend its dividend for the first time in 60 years.

Next year is looking mighty challenging

I think the World needs to go to bed for a year. A sort of hibernation.

[JimsKnight]

It's kind of exhilarating in a way, this stuff doesn't happen much and when it does, boy is TS gonna hit TF

But I think going into Condo buying is pretty crazy.

People need to realise that when things are desperate and a depression happens the CRIME rate goes shooting up as well! As foreigners we'll need to be especially careful if this meltdown continues.