Down To His Last $500 Million?

[soundman]

THAKSIN'S WEALTH

Down to his last $500 million?

Former PM hit by global slowdown, so $2 billion frozen in Thai banks is now more important

Former PM hit by global slowdown, so $2 billion frozen in Thai banks is now more important Ex-prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra was believed to have $5 billion of overseas assets in nominal value as stock markets were peaking, oil was trading at US$140 a barrel and Middle East real estate was going up every day. But, with the collapse of the global financial markets and the commodity prices, Thaksin's core money is now believed to be worth not more than US$500 million.

"By my calculations, the core money is not worth much more than US$500 million at today's liquidation value, and Thaksin's capacity to hold on to the debt is diminishing fast, by the day. So, in brief, his net worth has declined from a notional figure of US$5 billion to the present value of US$500 million," said the international financier, who asked not to be named.

Much worse, the UK government has frozen about US$4.2 billion in assets believed to belong to ex-prime minister Thaksin shortly after it revoked his and Khunying Pojaman Shinawatra's visas in November, according to local and international money managers.

The UK authorities normally give the "beneficiary owners" of the frozen assets six months to step forward to declare ownership. If the authorities are satisfied with the evidence, they release the assets back to the beneficiary owners.

Earlier, Arabian-business.com (see the link www.arabianbusiness.com/539714-catch-me-if-you-can) reported that the UK has frozen $4 billion of Thaksin's assets. "The UK froze his reputed $4bn of assets, forcing him to sell Manchester City to Abu Dhabi's Sheikh Mansour. To add to his troubles, his UK visa was revoked - oh, and his wife divorced him last week," the Arabianbusiness report said.

Yet so far nobody has come out to confirm or deny this report.

Of the US$4.2 billion being frozen by the UK authorities, US$1.4 billion represents Thaksin's core money, plus US$40 million in futures trading margin, US$300 million in Swiss bank core money excluding margin money and US$300 million core money in Dubai. The rest is debt.

Thaksin's real problem, however, is to prove that the source of money in the UK and Switzerland is credible, without which a big chunk of his assets will be frozen for quite a while. Having too many offshore companies with bearer shares is not helping matters in an environment where he has been convicted and jumped bail.

"At the moment, the situation is rather complicated for Thaksin because all the frozen assets are under nominee names. He has been using 20 to 25 offshore companies for financial transactions, including two major Swiss banks and three private banks in Geneva," said the international money manager, who has followed the Manchester City Football Club deal closely.

Parts of Thaksin's frozen money also represent margin loans provided by the Swiss banks, which are also trying to sort out the legal problems to get the money back, he added.

Other assets are invested in oil, rice and gold futures trading, in new condo buildings in Dubai and other portfolio investments. The total contracts of his oil, rice and gold future trading exceeded $450 million in face value. They are now at risk of being liquidated because of the adverse market conditions.

"Also, I was told by Adnan Khashoggi's people in Dubai and Abu Dhabi that the huge investment in new condo buildings in the Gulf is at risk of being wiped out since it was loaded with bank debt. Total outlay is in excess of $1.2 billion, though the loss (if materialised) will probably be about $250-$300 million," said the international financier.

Another $550-million portfolio believed to belong to Thaksin is being managed by the two major Swiss banks and three private banks in Geneva and is also doing badly. Without proper risk-insurance coverage, the value of this portfolio has declined significantly, he added.

He said: "I believe Thaksin now has only $500 million left. So the Thai assets [bt76 billion] are now very critical to him. Khunying Pojaman's return to Thailand is primarily aimed at protecting this final piece of their assets. Thaksin is also weighing the possibility of returning to Thailand himself to reclaim the Thai assets, which have become very critical to him."

A Thai businessman by the name of "Phairoj P" has been acting as a front man on Thaksin's behalf in making the dubious money transfers into the UK.

"Phairoj was a surrogate in helping Thaksin to acquire the football club. When only 10,000 pounds of (Bt508,000) was transferred into Phairoj's bank account, the UK authorities asked him where the money came from but he could not give a satisfactory answer. That led the UK authorities to mount a series of assets freezes. Phairoj, too, is facing trouble with the UK authorities," said a local banker, who asked not to be named. "But I have not heard anything much beyond that. I only know that he has lots of money overseas."

The UK authorities started to focus their attention on the high-profile Thaksin when he announced his buy-out of Manchester City in 2007. Since Thaksin was from Thailand and had taken refuge in London after being ousted from office by a military coup in September 2006, his money transferred into the UK should have come from Thai banks or Thai companies.

As it turned out, the UK authorities found out that Thaksin's money - virtually all under other nominee names - came from offshore companies located in such places as Guernsey or Isle of Man and directly from the Swiss banks. Thaksin altogether invested more than 200 million pounds, including the cost of buying the players, in the football club. That huge investment prompted the UK authorities to launch an investigation into the trail of the money transfers and eventually nail Thaksin and his wife with the revocation of their visas.

Much worse, over the past two years, Thaksin has been actively making business deals that have turned sour to the extent that he is now desperate to reclaim his frozen assets in Thailand.

"Before Thaksin had more money in the overseas than his Bt76 billion frozen in Thailand. He could just easily walk away from his Thai assets. But now most of his overseas investment has been blown away. He has lost his money badly in the futures trading. My good guess is that he has only in the Bt10-billion range left. So he is rather desperate to try to get hold of his frozen assets in Thailand. But that will not be easy now," said a local money manager who has extensive experience in international finance.

"Thaksin is bound to lose money in his investment because he only looks at the upside gains and never knows when to stop," he added.

On Wednesday, Thai Rath, a local mass daily, hinted that Thaksin might decide to fly into Thailand soon in order to salvage his sagging political base, with the defection of Newin Chidchob, the political kingmaker, and the possibility of the breaking apart of the Pheu Thai Party.

Thaksin's whereabouts has been kept secret. But he is now believed to be operating out of Delhi as his headquarters.

"Interestingly, Thaksin appears to have strong links with India via a powerful agent in Delhi. He has established a base there and, in my view, that connection will prove his strongest international connection. It is close to Thailand, it is where he has the freedom to operate politically, it is a free-wheeling money market/investment climate and I guess no extradition treaty with Thailand," the international financier said.

-- The Nation 2008-12-26

[Loaded]

Earlier, Arabian-business.com (see the link www.arabianbusiness.com/539714-catch-me-if-you-can) reported that the UK has frozen $4 billion of Thaksin's assets. "The UK froze his reputed $4bn of assets, forcing him to sell Manchester City to Abu Dhabi's Sheikh Mansour. To add to his troubles, his UK visa was revoked - oh, and his wife divorced him last week," the Arabianbusiness report said.

Yet so far nobody has come out to confirm or deny this report.

Lazy reporting. Why didn't the writer contact Arabian-business.com? Bangkok Pundit did and the Website apologised for their error as the British authorities had cancelled the visa but hadn't frozen his assets. This story is a load of rubbish.

[samgrowth]

I think the media knows more about Thaksin money than he himself does.

I hide money from my wife, all over the place and forgot about some of them. It is amazing that my wife know exactly where they all are and how much they are.

[brahmburgers]

The path to riches and back down to the ground can be speedy.

Take Michael Jackson, for example. Nearly all his keepsake memorabilia was sequestered by a music store which successfully filed a lien for it. Michael and his brothers and sister can't access a warehouse full of their once-personal stuff (platinum/gold records, earlier performance outfits, personal letters, etc.). If not for big money from a rich Arabian friend, and some very big loans, MJ would be more in the hole than he already is. Tribulations of the once very-rich.

Thaksin, like Donald Trump, can always borrow his way out of financial trouble - at least for the foreseeable future. A number of years ago, Trump was about to face the consequences of a very bad investment in an Atlantic City casino - but his father bailed him out with millions in a cash hand-out.

Edited December 26, 2008 by brahmburgers

[Artisi]

My heart bleeds for him - down to his last $500M - now that's really doing it tough.

[MyphuketLife]

Even if you take the story as true...

We are talking 500million US, he is not hurting.... 500million is nothing to cry over....

[JacknDanny]

I think the media knows more about Thaksin money than he himself does.

I hide money from my wife, all over the place and forgot about some of them. It is amazing that my wife know exactly where they all are and how much they are.

Try a safety deposit box.

The only way wifey would know is if you told her or if you wanted her to know

Kind of like when someone comes on TV forever spouting off how much money they have....normally a sign if insecurity

Edited December 26, 2008 by JacknDanny

[Plus]

Earlier, Arabian-business.com (see the link www.arabianbusiness.com/539714-catch-me-if-you-can) reported that the UK has frozen $4 billion of Thaksin's assets. "The UK froze his reputed $4bn of assets, forcing him to sell Manchester City to Abu Dhabi's Sheikh Mansour. To add to his troubles, his UK visa was revoked - oh, and his wife divorced him last week," the Arabianbusiness report said.

Yet so far nobody has come out to confirm or deny this report.

Lazy reporting. Why didn't the writer contact Arabian-business.com? Bangkok Pundit did and the Website apologised for their error as the British authorities had cancelled the visa but hadn't frozen his assets. This story is a load of rubbish.

They would rather have denied the story than go out of their way to prove the rumors.

What gives credibility to Nation's article is details. You just can't make this stuff up, though probably 90% of what they said is not exactly true or didn't happen exactly the same way.

It's like old kremlinologists - a few clues and a lot of guesswork.

[quiksilva]

Propaganda?

[Gravelrash]

Earlier, Arabian-business.com (see the link www.arabianbusiness.com/539714-catch-me-if-you-can) reported that the UK has frozen $4 billion of Thaksin's assets. "The UK froze his reputed $4bn of assets, forcing him to sell Manchester City to Abu Dhabi's Sheikh Mansour. To add to his troubles, his UK visa was revoked - oh, and his wife divorced him last week," the Arabianbusiness report said.

Yet so far nobody has come out to confirm or deny this report.

Lazy reporting. Why didn't the writer contact Arabian-business.com? Bangkok Pundit did and the Website apologised for their error as the British authorities had cancelled the visa but hadn't frozen his assets. This story is a load of rubbish.

Yes Bangkok Pundit posted the following reply from Arabian Business after he actually bothered to check the reputed source for the Nations article:

Hi,

I'm sorry that was written wrongly - the UK didn't freeze 4 billion of his assets. The UK revoked his visa, which meant that he couldn't have any financial dealings in the UK - meaning he had to sell Man City.

Best wishes,

Anil Bhoyrul

Editorial Director

[Plus]

See - he didn't even try to explain where they got the number in the first place as it has never been officialy released. The money itself exists, of course, and Nation's article gives a good pictureo f what has been frozen and why.

Thaksin has to prove that the funds are legit, and eventually he'll get to it, but his political standing here will suffer if all his nominee companies and staggering amounts of money he squirelled away from Thailand are disclosed.

It makes him look like an average tin pot African dictator wannabe rather than a Nelson Mandeal like statesman.

>>>

Cue Koo to explain to us all how hiding 170 billion baht in overseas accounts and investing in overseas business was all meant to help the poor. Poor Arabs, that is. Poor Thais didn't deserve his investements.

[Thai at Heart]

In light of the headlines that revoking his visa generated in the UK, and Milliband's love of the media, doesn't anyone think that freezing 4bn might have a line or two in the UK press?

[samgrowth]

I think the media knows more about Thaksin money than he himself does.

I hide money from my wife, all over the place and forgot about some of them. It is amazing that my wife know exactly where they all are and how much they are.

Try a safety deposit box.

The only way wifey would know is if you told her or if you wanted her to know

Kind of like when someone comes on TV forever spouting off how much money they have....normally a sign if insecurity

It is a small seaside town. My wife seems to know the bank clerk in ever bank here, frequently buy small snack to please them in the morning. She even have a sister working in one of the bank, which I avoided. They call her "mea farang" (farang's wife). In less than a week after I open an account, my wife will gets the information. The bank clerk even tell her the balance, falling short of printing her the statement. She once ask me why don't I move X Baht money from bank A to bank B becuase bank B pays more interest. But I was hiding some money in bank A away from her, open that account without her knowing. Once she informed me that Y USD has been wired-in, before the bank told me.

I once needs a few thousand Baht, but was lazy to go to ATM down town. She suggest I use the money hidden under the ///// first. How the hel_l did she know? I have hidden it there so long, I didn't even remember I have hidden it there.

[animatic]

IIRC he sold Manchester city BEFORE his visa was revoked.

But I wouldn't bet the investigation by UK authorities into

HOW he got the cash into UK to buy MCFC wasn't breathing down his neck,

and forced the sale. I think he sold the club because he KNEW his money

would appear dodgey, and he wanted out before they DID freeze his assets.

No word on where the PROFITS from that sale went...

As might be inferred by the Temasek sale, where some went to the SET,

and equally likely a nice chunk went to shill companies off shore too.

Of course this was counter to Thai laws about sending profits overseas.

HE sold the FC, but what kind of deal? Pretty prestige for the Dubai cats.

What premium on their ego gratification, so easily assuaged?

It can be reasonably assumed, some went to the club sale up front publicly,

but some, likely, got put into discrete accounts off shore or Swiss etc.

Or just in Dubai or local banks for his use.

The guy seems a $3 bill for sure, bent like a cork screw.

And it would appear his hubris, has been costing him big time.

Even if this story is half true or 1/4 true it is still a window on his machinations,

and wouldn't have seen press if there wasn't reason to believe

a reasonable proportion was on the mark.

Notice he hasn't tried to SUE them for a billion bhat....

He appears in gambling terms a "Plunger" he just dives in and keeps diving.

Throws good money after bad when stressed.

And seems to not be able to KEEP big money IF the sweetheart deals aren't available.

If he were as astute as he imagines, he would have been profiting nicely off this down turn.

Edited December 26, 2008 by animatic

[bunnaag]

Even if you take the story as true...

We are talking 500million US, he is not hurting.... 500million is nothing to cry over....

The red shirt mob does not come cheap. Edited December 26, 2008 by bunnaag

[Plus]

Actually I don't remember a lot of publicity regarding his visa revocation. It was first leaked through local airlines, then simply confirmed by the UK, and Miliband was brief on the whole thing.

How do you think the UK authorities would go about asset freeze? I think for now they simply have it under investigation and so it's a sensitive situation right now and the money is in legal limbo so they'd rather not talk about it.

Thai assets ahve been ordered to be frozen, there was legal investigation and now the case is in the courts.

UK assets have not reached that stage yet, I think they just got them as part of their normal (clandestine) money laundering watch, perhaps they'll let it go if they can prove Thaksin didn't finance any terrorist groups or activities.

Billions of hidden funds with links to Arabs - just the thing for paranoid western intellegence services.

[Ricardo]

Yes Bangkok Pundit posted the following reply from Arabian Business after he actually bothered to check the reputed source for the Nations article:

Hi,

I'm sorry that was written wrongly - the UK didn't freeze 4 billion of his assets. The UK revoked his visa, which meant that he couldn't have any financial dealings in the UK - meaning he had to sell Man City.

Best wishes,

Anil Bhoyrul

Editorial Director

I don't quite follow the logic of this response.

Surely he sold the stake in Man City well before the problem with his UK visa ?

And I'm sure that he would still be able to have financial dealings in the UK, despite personally not being able to get in, I mean doesn't he still own a house and/or a flat there ? Or is that in someone else's name ??

Smoke and mirrors, I suspect.

[animatic]

Even if you take the story as true...

We are talking 500million US, he is not hurting.... 500million is nothing to cry over....

The red shirt mob does not come cheap.

And ye olde Poo Thai Party comes even MORE expensively...

Seems he didn't have the dosh this time around...

or couldn't get enough in country to turn the screws...

[MyphuketLife]

Even if you take the story as true...

We are talking 500million US, he is not hurting.... 500million is nothing to cry over....

The red shirt mob does not come cheap.

I don't know, the yellow mob was fairly cheap and effective....

[bunnaag]

Even if you take the story as true...

We are talking 500million US, he is not hurting.... 500million is nothing to cry over....

The red shirt mob does not come cheap.

I don't know, the yellow mob was fairly cheap and effective....

a matter of education and discipline.

[Artisi]

Even if you take the story as true...

We are talking 500million US, he is not hurting.... 500million is nothing to cry over....

The red shirt mob does not come cheap.

I don't know, the yellow mob was fairly cheap and effective....

a matter of education and discipline.

and moral rights on your side.

[soundman]

What I'd be interested to know is where the alleged billions, on top of the billions frozen in Thailand, came from?

[Chang_paarp]

What I'd be interested to know is where the alleged billions, on top of the billions frozen in Thailand, came from?

Apart from the 67 very heavy suitcases Potjaman took when she made a post coup visit to London?

I think they have been salting things away for a rainy day for a long time (the weather has been a little inclamant in the Thaksin camp for a while), you don't just ring up and create an Ample Rich in a couple of days.

[Samuian]

I think they have been salting things away for a rainy day for a long time (the weather has been a little inclamant in the Thaksin camp for a while), you don't just ring up and create an Ample Rich in a couple of days.

Then his "honest mistake" probably was just that, he scooped so much off, that he had no clue how, from where and what company... and has very likely some very dodgy accountants & advisers!

This story is becoming, more interesting and very entertaining by every day!

[Seneque]

And the last 500 mil is with Madoff .... !

[Thai at Heart]

Actually I don't remember a lot of publicity regarding his visa revocation. It was first leaked through local airlines, then simply confirmed by the UK, and Miliband was brief on the whole thing.

How do you think the UK authorities would go about asset freeze? I think for now they simply have it under investigation and so it's a sensitive situation right now and the money is in legal limbo so they'd rather not talk about it.

Thai assets ahve been ordered to be frozen, there was legal investigation and now the case is in the courts.

UK assets have not reached that stage yet, I think they just got them as part of their normal (clandestine) money laundering watch, perhaps they'll let it go if they can prove Thaksin didn't finance any terrorist groups or activities.

Billions of hidden funds with links to Arabs - just the thing for paranoid western intellegence services.

There was enough, plus the fact that he was in he news for having bought Man City, meant that his name was bandied around plenty on the 6pm news and the newspapers. When the visa came to be revoked, the PAD was on the streets at the time and made most of the broadsheets and the main TV news.

Not one has mentioned that the UK govt is planning to freeze quite a considerable amount of cash inside the UK. Reporting this kind of things in the UK is a daily occurence.

[neverdie]

So if you only had $US500M left & you were somehow deaf, dumb and blind & could only pull a 3% return on this, that would mean your only making $US15 a year (gross), this converted to thai baht is only 525M per year, a mere 1.44M per day. THAT WOULD BE TERRIBLE, I can't imagine what it would be like to get by on this.

Maybe his country would like to help out a bit & offer him some accomodation & fish head soup for a few years.

[Plus]

There was enough, plus the fact that he was in he news for having bought Man City...

There were news that he was pressured to sell by UK authorities, though it wasn't clear if it was re-evaluation of his "fit and proper" test or source of the funds that were the reason.

I'm not sure teh funds are really frozen, as Thanong Khantong claims, but given that there are dozen if not hundreds of people involved, the leaks are invetable and this article is built on the leaked information. So far I think we can safely say that the money is "unavaliable".

[animatic]

I think they have been salting things away for a rainy day for a long time (the weather has been a little inclamant in the Thaksin camp for a while), you don't just ring up and create an Ample Rich in a couple of days.

Then his "honest mistake" probably was just that, he scooped so much off, that he had no clue how, from where and what company... and has very likely some very dodgy accountants & advisers!

This story is becoming, more interesting and very entertaining by every day!

Gotta agree with that one.

He appears to have been bypassing thai laws for sometime about repatriation of funds abroad,

and generating funds here and taking them abroad, well over the alloted limits.

It always amazed me she got all that stuff on an airplane and left with it.

I suspect it was in the hopes that they would have taken enough to not want to come back.

In any case his ego has been his undoing in too many ways to count.

Hubris; A word I rarely get to use, except for this fellow; it fits so well...

Too much hubris and a surfeit of sophrosyne!

hubris

excessive pride or self-confidence; arrogance.

Origin:1880–85;

Random House Unabridged Dictionary

1884, from Gk. hybris

"wanton violence, insolence, outrage," originally "presumption toward the gods," of unknown origin.

Online Etymology Dictionary, © 2001 Douglas Harper

Edited December 26, 2008 by animatic

[cclub75]

Earlier, Arabian-business.com (see the link www.arabianbusiness.com/539714-catch-me-if-you-can) reported that the UK has frozen $4 billion of Thaksin's assets. "The UK froze his reputed $4bn of assets, forcing him to sell Manchester City to Abu Dhabi's Sheikh Mansour. To add to his troubles, his UK visa was revoked - oh, and his wife divorced him last week," the Arabianbusiness report said.

Yet so far nobody has come out to confirm or deny this report.

The level of the thai press is appalling. And shameful...

BangkokPundit, a blogger, has just... asked the editor of this report (arabian newspaper). Who retracted it, saying they made mistake ! He just asked by email !

Check the copy of the email :

http://bangkokpundit.blogspot.com/2008/12/...ins-assets.html

So the whole story is based on bullshit. The UK never seized Thaksin's assets. The UK is not a banana republic-monarchy, like Thailand is.

Shame on Nation.

Edited December 26, 2008 by cclub75