Fire At Santika Night Club

[kat]

[Following The Nation's report, the BP has now reported that the building didn't meet zoning requirements and was subsequently registered as a food shop which couldn't operate after midnight.

Hence, besides who is at fault for this tragedy, there will also be many legal issues as to whether the building met building codes (it doesn't sound like it did), why it was allowed to operate after midnight when registered as a night time food shop and what the Administrative Court's injunction covered and why was this njunction in force for so long.

Baht, and lots of it. That substitutes for the Rule of Law in LOS.

[bonobo]

We were supposed to meet friends there, but the movie Australia was longer than we expected, and after getting home, showering and changing, it was already 11:00 PM, so we decided to just stay at my home (I am not big into the club scene anyway, so I wasn't too excited to go in the first place). We got the calls from our friends, though (thankfully, only one was slightly burned).  They had a table right at the stage, and they told us the fire went up extremely quickly when flames from a stage device of some sort caught the ceiling on fire.  At first, people seem to watch for a few moments, but then when some lights fell, people then started to panic.

I have to imagine that most of the people up on the balcony did not make it.  There is only one very small stairwell to get up there, and I can't imagine what was going throught their minds.

My deepest condolences to all those affected.

[Thai at Heart]

Unfortunately the single biggest problem in safety in Thailand is the lack of enforcement and the ability to buy off the enforcement.

I made a similar comment several pages back. People new to Thailand always jump to the conclusion when a tragedy occurs (and they occur far too often here) that the codes are antiquated. The codes are fine. Enforcement is a joke.

Case in point on this building is the Nation's Breaking News article that this building failed inspection and the police didn't want it to open in 2004. However, the owners got an injunction from the Administrative Court who allowed it to open pending conclusion of the case, which apparently has yet to concluded.

4 years to sort this out is an inordinately long time. How did it get built in the first place?

Deputy Police Commissioner-General Pol Gen Jongrak Juthanon said the Metropolitan Police was opposed to the operation of Santika Pub but the pub was allowed to operate by an injunction of the Administrative Court.

Jongrak said.

He said the Metropolitan Police did not allow the pub to be open in 2004 on grounds that the place did not conform to standard but the injunction allowed the pub to operate pending a ruling in the case.

The Nation

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingne...ty-police-chief

Following The Nation's report, the BP has now reported that the building didn't meet zoning requirements and was subsequently registered as a food shop which couldn't operate after midnight.

Hence, besides who is at fault for this tragedy, there will also be many legal issues as to whether the building met building codes (it doesn't sound like it did), why it was allowed to operate after midnight when registered as a night time food shop and what the Administrative Court's injunction covered and why was this njunction in force for so long.

Well if it was operating under a food shop license, a lot of people will probably have a lot of questions to answer. If zoning is an issue, then what about the other clubs around that area?

Edited January 2, 2009 by Thai at Heart

[kat]

"Worapoj said his office was also going to check the structure of the pub to determine if it conformed with safety standards."

Uhm, he is about 5 years too late with that one, and is now going to "check" on something that his office already knew and condoned.

Edit added:

Also, I wonder if the Thai Rath and the PM are going to retract their statements that FOREIGNERS were responsible for the fire now that we have video footage and reports of flagrant code violations and legal complicity showing otherwise.

Edited January 2, 2009 by kat

[Briggsy]

Deputy Police Commissioner-General Pol Gen Jongrak Juthanon said the Metropolitan Police was opposed to the operation of Santika Pub but the pub was allowed to operate by an injunction of the Administrative Court.

Jongrak said.

He said the Metropolitan Police did not allow the pub to be open in 2004 on grounds that the place did not conform to standard but the injunction allowed the pub to operate pending a ruling in the case.

Definitely passing the buck. See below.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingne...ty-police-chief

Following The Nation's report, the BP has now reported that the building didn't meet zoning requirements and was subsequently registered as a food shop which couldn't operate after midnight.

Hence, besides who is at fault for this tragedy, there will also be many legal issues as to whether the building met building codes (it doesn't sound like it did), why it was allowed to operate after midnight when registered as a night time food shop and what the Administrative Court's injunction covered and why was this njunction in force for so long.

As any owner of a pub or restaurant from Soi Asoke eastwards can tell you, the decision whether your establishment opens or not lies solely with Thong Lor police station. Pubs and clubs are sometimes ordered to close/not open on a few hours' notice. This club was on Ekamai next to Soi 11. The decision to allow it to open illegally would have been made by Thong Lor police station who would have been compensated as a result.

[skiman1]

Where is the owner Suwit Setsawat ? Is he in custody? what does he look like?

[HorseDoctor]

Imagine if you were in a club like that, before the tragedy, and you asked the Thai folks you were with, "where are the exits? Is there any plan for escape in case of a fire?"

Here's the types of replies you'd get from your Thai friends:

>>> "Oh you farang, always worry worry."

>>> "oh, come on, it's party, let's have fun. Why so serious all da time?"

>>> "no ploblem, everything ok. If you worry, then you make it happen. Law of karma, come on have drink, relax."

>>> "Why you always find fault with Thailand? You dink always problem. No problem now. everyding be ok."

......similar types of responses you get when you start to put a seatbelt on with a Thai driver at the wheel. ...or when you ask your Thai passenger to put his/her seatbelt on.

regardless, such a sad and painful way to go. condolences all around.

Somewhat OT but, about safety

I wrecked a car once when I had to swerve to avoid another car. The passenger came over on me and I couldn't steer. Now everyone wears a seatbelt in any car I'm in or I get out .

I also get really annoyed at fellow passengers on airplanes that undue their belt at every chance- one air pocket and it's serious injuries to themselves and others..

And after landing, no one's going anywhere, why undo the belt while the plane is still rolling?

While flying I always always wear full length natural fiber clothing with sturdy leather shoes that stay on and carry a leather jacket . People do walk away from plane crashes, how injured are you going to be in those flip flops with synthetic fabric melted onto your back ?

Yes , we must take responsibilty for our own safety but we also should be able to depend on governments that collect taxes to offer some protection too in the way of forcing regultions to be followed

[girlx]

Does anybody know if Thithi and RJT are OK?

yes i have talked to both of them and they were not there. the only thaivisa member i know of who was there was hawkup2000 and he is ok as well.

[warmwater7]

Santika Club at Ekamai was on fire during the New Year celebration - early reports have at least 50 injured, and up to 50 dead.

I could see the flames from my window - needless to say they were fierce.

More as I hear of it.

REUTERS IS REPORTING A " ELECTRICAL SHORT CIRCUT " TO BE THE LEAD SUSPECT IN THE FIRE.

I MIGHT BE WRONG............BUT I'M NOT.

[john b good]

"It should also be noted that the 1993 Bangkok doll factory fire was listed as the deadliest in the world (183 killed, 500 injured)"

It was not 183 killed. It was 388 people that lost their lives in the Kader fire (mostly young girls, and the fire exits were all chained locked "to stop workers from leaving early"

I was in Bangkok when it occurred. AND, to my knowledge no one has been punished for the criminal acts that were allowed and which directly resulted in the high death toll

"I know what comes up on Google, but 388 was the figure that was reported in the BP at the time"

Edited January 2, 2009 by sbk

[CarlBkk]

I'm nearly out of ideas.

This is an open plea to anyone who might have seen these persons:

The missing people include the guy second from the left, the guy in blue in the center, and the girl on the far right. Would greatly appreciate if anyone has any information whatsoever on any of these people.

Please.

Vadhana district had set up an emergency centre help relatives of the victims.

The names of the dead or injured can be checked by calling (02) 381 2285, (02) 381 8930, extensions 70156.

Also check the group on Facebook set up for the Santika Tragedy, as well as your friends facebook profiles to see if there's been any activity.

[Thai at Heart]

Santika Club at Ekamai was on fire during the New Year celebration - early reports have at least 50 injured, and up to 50 dead.

I could see the flames from my window - needless to say they were fierce.

More as I hear of it.

REUTERS IS REPORTING A " ELECTRICAL SHORT CIRCUT " TO BE THE LEAD SUSPECT IN THE FIRE.

I MIGHT BE WRONG............BUT I'M NOT.

Bodies trampled as panicked patrons fled

Apiradee Treerutkuarkul

Thanawut Santhong survived the Santika pub blaze, but lost three close friends who were with him that night.

"I feel terrible that I was able to escape the fire but was unable to help my friends," he said.

It was Mr Thanawut's first visit. After learning that the pub would close after New Year, he and his friends decided to celebrate the New Year countdown there.

He said each guest was given a firecracker to light inside during the countdown. He could smell smoke and saw flames on the ceiling soon after the countdown finished.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/1356...-leaves-61-dead

[HorseDoctor]

JUst viewing the footage of all the sparklers- wonder if the sulphur fumes collecting at the ceiling acted as accelerant or even ignition?

[kat]

[Thanks for that article, John. Let's hope the investigation is fair and transparent, hope being the operative word.

Enforcement has always been a problem in Thailand, because judgments are not decided by the Rule of Law. I also personally believe that pyrotechnics should be outlawed for use on club stage shows, and the venues that do use them have a special permit depicting a high level of expertise. But of course, with lax enforcements any standard can be avoided and exploited. It always comes down to enforcements, and the FEAR of consequences and Rule of Law. Without either, there isn't much chance of taking safety or security very seriously.

edit/added:

"After the countdown, fireworks reading "Happy New Year" ignited the soundproof ceiling on the second floor and the fire spread to other areas inside the two-storey building, he said. A source at the Metropolitan Police Bureau said the exit door was very narrow, and added there was a backdoor exit, but it was exclusively used by employees. The source said Santika was illegally opened because it was registered as a night-time food shop, which required it to close at midnight. It could not register as an entertainment venue in 2003 after City Hall enforced zoning in Bangkok, the source said."

"It should also be noted that the 1993 Bangkok doll factory fire was listed as the deadliest in the world (183 killed, 500 injured)"

It was not 183 killed. It was 388 people that lost their lives in the Kader fire (mostly young girls, and the fire exits were all chained locked "to stop workers from leaving early"

I was in Bangkok when it occurred. AND, to my knowledge no one has been punished for the criminal acts that were allowed and which directly resulted in the high death toll

Yeah, thanks for that correction. I also want to correct my statement about the PM's retraction about foreigners starting the blaze. I can't recall him saying that, but the Thai Rath newspaper should certainly be held responsible for retracting that statement and apologizing.

[Dissolution]

To the person who kindly suggested my friends might've been in the video waving sparklers, much thanks for looking out, but that wasn't them. We were all on the second floor. And also, I'm trying to find footage that might show them stillve alive after the blaze. >.< Also, the girl in our group was wearing a solid black dress. The girl at 3:30 in the video was in a patterned dress and black shorts.

To all the people guessing at how the fire started, and how people were bringing sparklers in:

1. People did not bring sparklers in. The sparklers were thrown to the ecstatic crowd from the MC on stage, shortly before the countdown.

2. Fire was not started by sparklers. Think about it: The height of the ceiling above the pit is/was 2 stories high. How did a sparkler, no matter how vigorously waved, managed to ignore the ceiling?

3. Before the fire actually came through the ceiling above the stage, we were already feeling really hot on the second floor. Thought it might've been an air-con malfunction, but was quite a bit hotter than just exhaust.

Just after the countdown, fireworks were released from the roofs of the derelict buildings lining the road outside of Santika along the road. We were laughing about how we've never seen fireworks released so close to the ground, and how the explosions set off car alarms. We believe a firework must've landed on the building at lit the roof ablaze. Indeed, some of the mortar type fireworks dipped quite low before exploding. It is quite possible that one could have torched the whole roof, and with the center being the weakest, the fire came through right there. If you look at some of the footage of the ruins, the roof was basically corrugated metal sheets, probably a plastic tarp (explaining the strong smell of burnt plastic), and lots of soundproofing. There were no overhead pipes; all were underground, which explains why most of the service bars were in the basement and on the ground floor.

Edited January 2, 2009 by Dissolution

[madi]

Sad

This kind of thing can and does happen in every nation so I am not one who looks to bash Thailand over this. It is not nice to kick people when they are down.

But of course all nations can do more with safety in places where so many people are crowded together. A good sprinkler system could have helped in this case. More exits also would have saved lives. If the political leaders would listen to the fireman, this kind of thing could be made far less likely to happen.

But again, this thing happens in every nation.

My thoughts go out to the Mom's and Dads who have lost the most important thing in their lives.

Instead of we all calling people names in anger we should all push for better laws on fire prevention and for strong enforcement for such laws. I think it is something that can be done to make this tragedy at least worth something. Listen to the Fireman and they can tell us all what is needed.

So sorry

[bravingbangkok]

To the person who kindly suggested my friends might've been in the video waving sparklers, much thanks for looking out, but that wasn't them. We were all on the second floor. And also, I'm trying to find footage that might show them stillve alive after the blaze. >.< Also, the girl in our group was wearing a solid black dress. The girl at 3:30 in the video was in a patterned dress and black shorts.

To all the people guessing at how the fire started, and how people were bringing sparklers in:

1. People did not bring sparklers in. The sparklers were thrown to the ecstatic crowd from the MC on stage, shortly before the countdown.

2. Fire was not started by sparklers. Think about it: The height of the ceiling above the pit is/was 2 stories high. How did a sparkler, no matter how vigorously waved, managed to ignore the ceiling?

3. Before the fire actually came through the ceiling above the stage, we were already feeling really hot on the second floor. Thought it might've been an air-con malfunction, but was quite a bit hotter than just exhaust.

Just after the countdown, fireworks were released from the roofs of the derelict buildings lining the road outside of Santika along the road. We were laughing about how we've never seen fireworks released so close to the ground, and how the explosions set off car alarms. We believe a firework must've landed on the building at lit the roof ablaze. Indeed, some of the mortar type fireworks dipped quite low before exploding. It is quite possible that one could have torched the whole roof, and with the center being the weakest, the fire came through right there. If you look at some of the footage of the ruins, the roof was basically corrugated metal sheets, probably a plastic tarp (explaining the strong smell of burnt plastic), and lots of soundproofing. There were no overhead pipes; all were underground, which explains why most of the service bars were in the basement and on the ground floor.

I hope you find them bro, God Bless

[Hawkup2000]

I was at Larry´s dive, but when Thithi, RakJungTorlae and dotcom left I decided to leave as well. I headed to Ekkamai because there are many partyoptions there.

Many people had problem of getting out because of the stairs. I have been to Santika many times but I don´t know any fire exits there.

Santika was built to look like a rustic place, but the fire spread so fast that I don´t think it was built with concrete.

Dissolution

I don´t remember your friends. Can you remember what they were wearing?

I am farang and had a black baseballcap.

Edited January 2, 2009 by Hawkup2000

[steffi]

I'm sure the accelerant was the sound proofing on the ceiling together with the toxic fumes from whatever was burning.

JUst viewing the footage of all the sparklers- wonder if the sulphur fumes collecting at the ceiling acted as accelerant or even ignition?

[Old Man River]

Well if it was operating under a food shop license, a lot of people will probably have a lot of questions to answer. If zoning is an issue, then what about the other clubs around that area?

That is the million dollar question.

With an upcoming Bangkok Governor election and a new PM who is already questioning how this could happen, perhaps we may actually get the answer to this question.

[steffi]

To the person who kindly suggested my friends might've been in the video waving sparklers, much thanks for looking out, but that wasn't them. We were all on the second floor. And also, I'm trying to find footage that might show them stillve alive after the blaze. >.< Also, the girl in our group was wearing a solid black dress. The girl at 3:30 in the video was in a patterned dress and black shorts.

To all the people guessing at how the fire started, and how people were bringing sparklers in:

1. People did not bring sparklers in. The sparklers were thrown to the ecstatic crowd from the MC on stage, shortly before the countdown.

2. Fire was not started by sparklers. Think about it: The height of the ceiling above the pit is/was 2 stories high. How did a sparkler, no matter how vigorously waved, managed to ignore the ceiling?

3. Before the fire actually came through the ceiling above the stage, we were already feeling really hot on the second floor. Thought it might've been an air-con malfunction, but was quite a bit hotter than just exhaust.

Just after the countdown, fireworks were released from the roofs of the derelict buildings lining the road outside of Santika along the road. We were laughing about how we've never seen fireworks released so close to the ground, and how the explosions set off car alarms. We believe a firework must've landed on the building at lit the roof ablaze. Indeed, some of the mortar type fireworks dipped quite low before exploding. It is quite possible that one could have torched the whole roof, and with the center being the weakest, the fire came through right there. If you look at some of the footage of the ruins, the roof was basically corrugated metal sheets, probably a plastic tarp (explaining the strong smell of burnt plastic), and lots of soundproofing. There were no overhead pipes; all were underground, which explains why most of the service bars were in the basement and on the ground floor.

Yes the wording here is unfortunate. I've heard the PM quoted as saying that "firecrackers shouldn't have been brought in" but I think that's a reference to the use of them inside rather than people actually bringing them in as they walked thru the door. It's clear that these were handed out and they alone were a clear violation of any fire code.

Edited January 2, 2009 by steffi

[Dissolution]

Hawkup, thanks. I posted a picture of us, taken literally minutes before the fire broke out.

There was also actually an exit on the left of the main entrance into the veranda, and a back exit that lead to another toilet and the area where the druggies and tough guys hung out around the back. People probably couldn't reach it, or died trying because they'd have to run towards where the fire seems to be spreading from, and across the main hall/pit to get there. If someone had seen the fire and tried to make it there, the roof caving in would've gotten them unless they were already standing next to the exit by the time.

In the event that my friends are gone; I hope they went quick, or instantly from the roof. I can't help but cry like a girl when I close my eyes and remember the people on fire trying to get out, but were trapped and died agonizingly slow and painful deaths.

[Thai at Heart]

Well if it was operating under a food shop license, a lot of people will probably have a lot of questions to answer. If zoning is an issue, then what about the other clubs around that area?

That is the million dollar question.

With an upcoming Bangkok Governor election and a new PM who is already questioning how this could happen, perhaps we may actually get the answer to this question.

I think this may well happen.

I hope it does because only by proper action to solve these types of accidents and make people accountable (if their is wrongdoing) is there any hope of reducing the chances it won't happen again. Through their actions now, the PM and incoming mayor have a chance to change Thailand for the better.

[meom]

Well if it was operating under a food shop license, a lot of people will probably have a lot of questions to answer. If zoning is an issue, then what about the other clubs around that area?

That is the million dollar question.

With an upcoming Bangkok Governor election and a new PM who is already questioning how this could happen, perhaps we may actually get the answer to this question.

Provided they actually prepare/serve food the food shop license is one of the "legal" ways to sidestep the zoning laws, closing times and some other issues.

It'll take years to sort out legally that's for sure.

Edited January 2, 2009 by meom

[thaisomchai]

By the way, "SANTIKA" means absolutely nothing in Spanish. Look it up.

"Beautiful of Nature" in Spanish would be "belleza de la naturaleza" or perhaps "belleza de la tierra"

"santika" is not even close.

"san" or "santa" in Spanish means "holy" but thats it. ( My 15 years living in Mexico gives me the background to say this)

[Jimjim]

Hawkup, thanks. I posted a picture of us, taken literally minutes before the fire broke out.

There was also actually an exit on the left of the main entrance into the veranda, and a back exit that lead to another toilet and the area where the druggies and tough guys hung out around the back. People probably couldn't reach it, or died trying because they'd have to run towards where the fire seems to be spreading from, and across the main hall/pit to get there. If someone had seen the fire and tried to make it there, the roof caving in would've gotten them unless they were already standing next to the exit by the time.

In the event that my friends are gone; I hope they went quick, or instantly from the roof. I can't help but cry like a girl when I close my eyes and remember the people on fire trying to get out, but were trapped and died agonizingly slow and painful deaths.

Truly traumatic. You're going to need someone to talk to about this, maybe for a long time. Don't suffer in silence. Didn't you say your brother was missing?

[Old Man River]

Well if it was operating under a food shop license, a lot of people will probably have a lot of questions to answer. If zoning is an issue, then what about the other clubs around that area?

That is the million dollar question.

With an upcoming Bangkok Governor election and a new PM who is already questioning how this could happen, perhaps we may actually get the answer to this question.

I think this may well happen.

I hope it does because only by proper action to solve these types of accidents and make people accountable (if their is wrongdoing) is there any hope of reducing the chances it won't happen again. Through their actions now, the PM and incoming mayor have a chance to change Thailand for the better.

For those of us who live in Bangkok that are parents of kids who are or will be attending local clubs over the next few years, this is an extremely important issue that none of us will let go. The thought of what those parents are going through is gut wrenching.

For me, I hope those guilty get theirs, but the most important issue is that this doesn't happen again. OK, of course it will in Thailand as enforcement here is a joke, but perhaps at least not again in my lifetime.

[Mobi]

In no way am I disputing that and completely agree with you.

I just do not like Mr Heads style of reporting. No need to make a comment with reference to back handers within the army and police forces. You just cannot say those types of things without backing them up immediately with evidense. Do you not agree ?

I'm not much of a fan of Jonathan Head either, particularly on his analysis of the recent political turmoil in Thailand

However, I listened to an interview he gave to BBC radio 5 yesterday, as as far as I am concerned he was spot on. He was asked to speculate on the cause of the fire, and of course he responded that it was too early to say for sure, and just related the current theories - fireworks etc. There then followed a brief discussion on the club scene in Bangkok, and he went on to explain the total lack in enforcement of the fire and safety codes, and that the city authorities were in the pockets of club owners, and words to the effect that most long time residents were fully aware of the risks taken when patronising these potential death traps. He also expressed an opinion that nothing will change any time soon, and the tragedy will soon be forgotten.

Even since the above quoted post was made, it now seems as though the club did indeed operate illegally - which I am sure comes as no surprise to anyone.

I think Head was absolutely right to raise these issues in the interview - anything that brings this disgusting state of affairs into the world spotlight has to be a good thing. Maybe if all the international reporters hammer the lack of safety enforcement in Thailand due to corruption, then who knows? - maybe the Thais will be shamed into taking action. Anything is worth a try.

And it's no use raising these issues later - no one outside of Thailand will be interested in reading or hearing about them. Radio 5 or BBC World won't be interviewing in Thailand about this fire in 2 or 3 weeks time - the world will have moved on to the next tragedy and the fire in Bangkok will be history.

I understand the sensitivity of loved ones who have lost people, but surely even they would like some good to come out of this tragedy, such as a tightening of regulations, and Mr Head in his own way is doing his bit to publicise this scandalous state of affairs while the world is watching and listening.

[Thai at Heart]

Just looking at youtube, it appears that stage based pyrotechnics have frequently been used at the club.

[taxexile]

is jonathan head the journalist accused by a police colonel of lesse majeste ?