Fire At Santika Night Club

[meom]

For now the owner of Santika is being charged for allowing underage customers in his club since one of the dead people was 17 yrs old.

[bravingbangkok]

I hate disasters, for one the pain and anguish that you KNOW for sure is being suffered right this moment really takes it out of me for some reason. I mean people die and you never hear about it but obviously it happens. When this type of disaster happens it makes you sit up and realise just how fragile life is, I and I think now a lot of people believe there simply is no heaven which makes the thought of death all that more scary and painful for loved ones left behind.

It makes you think why the fuc_k do people go to war to die ? I mean what sort of world or race are we exactly ? Fires in clubs and buildings, plane crashes, road accidents, train derailment and people still actually fight ! what a shitty society we live in !

I for one will be spending the next few weeks with my family.

[mrtoad]

is jonathan head the journalist accused by a police colonel of lesse majeste ?

Yes, the same guy. Although that issue seems to have gone away for now.

[Dissolution]

Hawkup, thanks. I posted a picture of us, taken literally minutes before the fire broke out.

There was also actually an exit on the left of the main entrance into the veranda, and a back exit that lead to another toilet and the area where the druggies and tough guys hung out around the back. People probably couldn't reach it, or died trying because they'd have to run towards where the fire seems to be spreading from, and across the main hall/pit to get there. If someone had seen the fire and tried to make it there, the roof caving in would've gotten them unless they were already standing next to the exit by the time.

In the event that my friends are gone; I hope they went quick, or instantly from the roof. I can't help but cry like a girl when I close my eyes and remember the people on fire trying to get out, but were trapped and died agonizingly slow and painful deaths.

Truly traumatic. You're going to need someone to talk to about this, maybe for a long time. Don't suffer in silence. Didn't you say your brother was missing?

Yes. Trying not to think about it that way though.

[mrtoad]

For now the owner of Santika is being charged for allowing underage customers in his club since one of the dead people was 17 yrs old.

Well, that would be a start. I'm hoping that there are a raft of charges, becasue it is quite clear that a number of regulations have been broken. Maybe, just maybe this one might not be so easily swept under the carpet. Lets hope so, and lets hope that the government starts getting tough on important things like safety, rather than some of the BS they have tried in the last few years.

What a sad waste of lives.

Dissolution, all the best, I think we are all feeling for you.

[Mobi]

is jonathan head the journalist accused by a police colonel of lesse majeste ?

Yes, there are two charges pending, I believe.

Once in connection with a speech he gave to the Foreign Correspondent's club some time ago, and more recently in connection with an article written on the BBC website.

[k1w1]

It's even more sad that an underager has been taken.

With the new PM coming in on the promise of serious political reform I am starting to get the feeling that this case will be used as a way to push through the agenda. After all the reason that Thailand has such bad enforcement of laws is also the main underlying reason the PAD have been protesting for so long and the platform that Abhisit has been working from for a long time.

I can see heads rolling for the issues that are being raised here on this forum. Something that would not have happened if a Police Academy Graduate would have been in power...

The police will try to pass the buck but will they be able to dodge all the bullets that are being lined up in their direction right now.

[bravingbangkok]

It's even more sad that an underager has been taken.

With the new PM coming in on the promise of serious political reform I am starting to get the feeling that this case will be used as a way to push through the agenda. After all the reason that Thailand has such bad enforcement of laws is also the main underlying reason the PAD have been protesting for so long and the platform that Abhisit has been working from for a long time.

I can see heads rolling for the issues that are being raised here on this forum. Something that would not have happened if a Police Academy Graduate would have been in power...

The police will try to pass the buck but will they be able to dodge all the bullets that are being lined up in their direction right now.

I hope Thailand is in for a serious shake up and by God is this PM the right man for it. I have heard Mr Abhisit Vejjajiva talk many a time before on Thai TV, a fiercely intelligent individual but yet very calm and collected.

In reply to the comment of the police passing the buck...all I say to that is 'not this time Somchai !'

Edited January 2, 2009 by bravingbangkok

[taxexile]

China provides $500,000 for Thai fire victims 2009-01-02

BANGKOK, Jan. 2 (Xinhua) -- Chinese government will provide 500,000 U.S. dollars to the Thai government for the medical treatment of burnt victims of the nightclub fire in New Year celebrations, the Chinese Embassy in Bangkok told Xinhua on Friday.

The Chinese Embassy said the money will be used for procurement of medicine.

Chinese Foreign Minister Yang Jiechi has sent a message to his Thai counterpart Kasit Piromya expressing condolences for the victims and their families who suffered the fire incident, which occurred in early minutes into the New Year's Day at the popular Santika nighclub in downtown Bangkok amid countdown celebrations, killing at least 59 people, many of them foreigners, and some 243 others were injured.

Upon Thailand's request, the Chinese government will offer 500,000 U.S. dollars as a humanitarian aid for the Thai government to procure medicines for burn injuries.

The Thai government has expressed appreciation for the Chinese condolences message and the prompt aid, saying that it is a reflection of long Thai-Chinese friendship.

On Thursday, Thai Deputy Public Health Minister Manit Nop-amornbodi said that Chinese medical skin-grafting experts are willing to offer treatment to patients of the New Year's Day blaze. in 1990, Chinese medical skin specialists gave assistance to victims in the Thai capital when an LPG-tank truck ruptured and exploded on New Phetchaburi Road in central Bangkok.

[sriracha john]

Police to charge Santika owner

The police planned to charge a major shareholder of Santika pub named Visuk Setsawad, better known as Hia Khao, for allowing people under 20 years of age to enter the venue. A fire broke out at the nightclub located in Bangkok's Thong Lo district when partygoers were celebrating the New Year's countdown. The fire left at least 61 dead and 243 injured.

The police had interrogated 25 witnesses so far and had excluded arson in their investigations after knowing that the venue's insurance contact expired a long time ago. However, Hia Khao had yet to appear before the police. Forensic police could not identify 21 bodies yet. Relatives and friends of suspected victims can reach the forensic police at 02-381-8930 extension 7015. A Japanese tourist who was badly injured from the nightclub fire, Keiichi Wada, was still in a coma.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/13...e-santika-owner

[john b good]

JUst viewing the footage of all the sparklers- wonder if the sulphur fumes collecting at the ceiling acted as accelerant or even ignition?

Sulphur fumes are heavier than air so no to this theory.

[geriatrickid]

Just after the countdown, fireworks were released from the roofs of the derelict buildings lining the road outside of Santika along the road. We were laughing about how we've never seen fireworks released so close to the ground, and how the explosions set off car alarms. We believe a firework must've landed on the building at lit the roof ablaze. Indeed, some of the mortar type fireworks dipped quite low before exploding. It is quite possible that one could have torched the whole roof, and with the center being the weakest, the fire came through right there. If you look at some of the footage of the ruins, the roof was basically corrugated metal sheets, probably a plastic tarp (explaining the strong smell of burnt plastic), and lots of soundproofing. There were no overhead pipes; all were underground, which explains why most of the service bars were in the basement and on the ground floor.

I think that you just identified one of the contributing causes. The burning tarp and flammable foams would have melted the electrical wires causing the arcing & explosions. Having witnessed fireworks landing on awnings, buildings, people, cars etc. in Patong New Year's eve, I think this is very plausible. My friend snapped some pics it was so crazy. It will be interesting to know if you are interviewed by the fire investigators. I suggest you and anyone else involved continue to write down your thoughts as you remember things and while events are fresh in your minds. The info will provide valuable clues. You can and will make a difference as the investigation gets underway.

[k1w1]

Surely the people outside would have seen anything that landed on the roof? For many of them the display of crazy fireworks being lit would have been a good reason to go/stay outside. So far no one has explicitly mentioned it.

Several people have said they saw the flames rising from the stage area which is under the balcony? If this is the case then it would have been hard for external fireworks to catch that area alight.

There was plenty of alcohol fumes in the place and four years of buildup. Plus it was not the first time that the candles had been lit inside. I think it's more plausible that the combined age of the venue interior decor, excessive heat from all the sparklers, and alcohol fumes would have either created a spark or the perfect environment for a spark to catch and take hold. If someone dropped a lit sparkler and/or threw one then it would be easy for the flame to grow.

Even a high ceiling venue can warm up quickly with enough people in and with fireworks added to the mix it is guaranteed to get hotter than usual.

It's also possible that the aircon units overheated and caused a spark to catch hold of the sound proofiing.

With the right conditions fire can also travel straight over the air so if there were enough alcohol fumes and a sparkler caught an up draft just right that could also have lit up the place.

Then there is also the possibility that someone laced the place beforehand and was intending to light it up at the end of the night when less people were around but got beaten to the punch by the sparklers that they had not planned for.

Did the band use sparklers as part of their act in the past or was it just a "bright" idea they had for this event?

[marquess]

Police to charge Santika owner

The police planned to charge a major shareholder of Santika pub named Visuk Setsawad, better known as Hia Khao, for allowing people under 20 years of age to enter the venue. A fire broke out at the nightclub located in Bangkok's Thong Lo district when partygoers were celebrating the New Year's countdown. The fire left at least 61 dead and 243 injured.

The police had interrogated 25 witnesses so far and had excluded arson in their investigations after knowing that the venue's insurance contact expired a long time ago. However, Hia Khao had yet to appear before the police. Forensic police could not identify 21 bodies yet. Relatives and friends of suspected victims can reach the forensic police at 02-381-8930 extension 7015. A Japanese tourist who was badly injured from the nightclub fire, Keiichi Wada, was still in a coma.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/13...e-santika-owner

It would be ridiculous if that is all that they ended up charging him with, that he allowed someone under the age of 20 into a bar.

[Jimjim]

Seems everyone here is a fire expert.

[meom]

Seems everyone here is a fire expert.

I enjoyed this bit "There was plenty of alcohol fumes in the place and four years of buildup."

[britmaveric]

^fire code is basic common sense when it comes down to it, so you could say lot of us do have that going for us.

[Jimjim]

Yes but not everyone is trained in arson and fire ignition inspection. Takes a lot of training and experience for that. My fireman friend would scoff at all the theories being thrown about with wild speculation here.

[taxexile]

I enjoyed this bit "There was plenty of alcohol fumes in the place and four years of buildup."

many didnt.

there was an long interview last night on thai channel 7 with somebody who was there , it might have been a dj or an employee , i didnt catch the beginning , and one of the things he said was that bottles of spirits were falling to the ground , breaking and exploding and that people were being set alight by them. this was in or near to a vip or bar area.

[madi]

JUst viewing the footage of all the sparklers- wonder if the sulphur fumes collecting at the ceiling acted as accelerant or even ignition?

Sulphur fumes are heavier than air so no to this theory.

You are funny. How sulpher fumes rise. HAAAA AAAAAA

Maybe you know when you heat air you can put it in a balloon and it goes up. Oil is very very heavy but when the oil fires were burning in Kuwait, the air did go up a few thousand feet. So much for my basic physics for children.

Here it is for kids.

http://www.historyforkids.org/scienceforki...hotairrises.htm

[k1w1]

My fireman friend would scoff at all the theories being thrown about with wild speculation here.

Why not own it yourself instead of having to bring your so called expert friend into the picture?

Do you have any specific evidence to discredit the build up of four years of alcohol soaked residue from being a contributing factor or are you just trolling for a fight? Pretty lame on a topic like this.

[Briggsy]

Re: Kader Fire

I was in Bangkok when it occurred. AND, to my knowledge no one has been punished for the criminal acts that were allowed and which directly resulted in the high death toll

After many years of stalling, a very low-level male employee, something like a cleaner, was jailed for apparently dropping the cigarette that started the fire. Nobody from management or any owners were subjected to any criminal punishment.

I would say this is standard procedure in this country and is played out again and again.

Edited January 2, 2009 by Briggsy

[yabaaaa]

BravinBangkok notified me I had made the "Sun" newspaper in the UK online website.

As usual I noticed they have completely screwed up what was said in my post .......... I never trust any newspaper reports on anything.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article2087881.ece

Sun....... "A poster called Yabaaaa claimed fire safety certificates could be BOUGHT and SOLD easily by club and hotel bosses."

In fact this is what I said............"I can confirm that in Thailand ISO can be easily "bought", my wifes old company (who'm she worked for) did exactly this. It makes the company look better to countries outside of Thailand such as Europe for exports I should think. The reality is they dont have ISO standards at all.I doubt anything will change regarding fire safety here although it will give my wife more ammunition to stamp out the smoking occurring at the condo blocks where w e rent out units and the Farangs who mainly flout this rule due to their perceptions you can ignore all rules/laws in Thailand"

[kiakaha]

let the "squirming,face saving,i'm not accountable" chess game begin. this one's gonna be a hoot.

[Jimjim]

My fireman friend would scoff at all the theories being thrown about with wild speculation here.

Why not own it yourself instead of having to bring your so called expert friend into the picture?

Do you have any specific evidence to discredit the build up of four years of alcohol soaked residue from being a contributing factor or are you just trolling for a fight? Pretty lame on a topic like this.

I do have a friend trained in ignition inspection, so I'll let him own it. Settle down. I just think it's unnecessary for many here with zero expertise to give their theories with no evidence. I was not referring to you or to any particular post, but a build-up of posts. Pretty lame on a topic like this for people to speculate about things they really don't know about. There are many different accounts so let's just let the experts do their work on this one.

[k1w1]

JUst viewing the footage of all the sparklers- wonder if the sulphur fumes collecting at the ceiling acted as accelerant or even ignition?

Sulphur fumes are heavier than air so no to this theory.

You are funny. How sulpher fumes rise. HAAAA AAAAAA

Maybe you know when you heat air you can put it in a balloon and it goes up. Oil is very very heavy but when the oil fires were burning in Kuwait, the air did go up a few thousand feet. So much for my basic physics for children.

Here it is for kids.

http://www.historyforkids.org/scienceforki...hotairrises.htm

Slam dunk. Madi. You spotted the troll.

I was just thinking that smoke from the sparklers drifts in the air so how can the fumes be ruled out as a contributing factor?

Clearly some people have no moral credibility if they are willing to troll on this topic.

[yabaaaa]

And before anyone starts moaning I KNOW ISO HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH FIRE SAFETY

[Jimjim]

Slam dunk. Madi. You spotted the troll.

I was just thinking that smoke from the sparklers drifts in the air so how can the fumes be ruled out as a contributing factor?

Clearly some people have no moral credibility if they are willing to troll on this topic.

It really seems like you're the one who wants a fight. Nobody here is trolling, just giving their untrained opinions mostly.

[k1w1]

My fireman friend would scoff at all the theories being thrown about with wild speculation here.

Why not own it yourself instead of having to bring your so called expert friend into the picture?

Do you have any specific evidence to discredit the build up of four years of alcohol soaked residue from being a contributing factor or are you just trolling for a fight? Pretty lame on a topic like this.

I do have a friend trained in ignition inspection, so I'll let him own it. Settle down. I just think it's unnecessary for many here with zero expertise to give their theories with no evidence. I was not referring to you or to any particular post, but a build-up of posts. Pretty lame on a topic like this for people to speculate about things they really don't know about. There are many different accounts so let's just let the experts do their work on this one.

It may be acceptable for you to leave it to the authorities to tell us what happened but some of us would rather try to figure out the various angles so we can have a better idea of whether they are pulling our legs with their results when they do tell us...

[nickynomates]

Police to charge Santika owner

The police planned to charge a major shareholder of Santika pub named Visuk Setsawad, better known as Hia Khao, for allowing people under 20 years of age to enter the venue. A fire broke out at the nightclub located in Bangkok's Thong Lo district when partygoers were celebrating the New Year's countdown. The fire left at least 61 dead and 243 injured.

The police had interrogated 25 witnesses so far and had excluded arson in their investigations after knowing that the venue's insurance contact expired a long time ago. However, Hia Khao had yet to appear before the police. Forensic police could not identify 21 bodies yet. Relatives and friends of suspected victims can reach the forensic police at 02-381-8930 extension 7015. A Japanese tourist who was badly injured from the nightclub fire, Keiichi Wada, was still in a coma.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/13...e-santika-owner

It would be ridiculous if that is all that they ended up charging him with, that he allowed someone under the age of 20 into a bar.

As usual this is being set up already for some one to take a little fall instead of a big one.

From the majority of accounts i have read stupidity of the owners and or organizers is large factor in all this.

Thai newspapers I saw this morning show pictures of a cross fixed to the wall with a coffin place outside and the lead band for the evening crying tears of black.

The theme for the evening unfortunately was headlined as fire and it was billed as the clubs last night.

Thailand needs to start to realize people do and can vote with there feet and as a country it needs to be been seen to act with justice according to the crime.

I hope the only charge does not stay at letting underage drinkers in and that the government actually find they are not testicular challenged and look at the police activity in all this regards licences etc.

Once again you live in hope.