Similans Tourists See Boat People Mistreated

[Samuian]

It is the military's duty to protect the country from an outside threat, however, there needs to be an assessment made as to how these people are a threat and why. I really doubt that these people are threat to the national security of the country.

Upon arrival, they need to be screened to determine if they meet the definition of a refugee. If they do not, and they are deemed to be illegal/economic migrants only, then they need to be returned to their country of origin. Agreements need to be in place for determining the return of migrants. This process needs to be overseen by the UNHCR to make certain that those facing persecution are not returned.

In the case of this group, most don't have citizenship anywhere, so where do you return them to? It takes a great deal of negotiation and pressue by the international community to resolve these problems and put in place mechanisms that assure the protection of these people.

Returning them to the sea is not an option.

I agree, sure it isn't an option, but I don't take "intend to let them die" either!

"what do we do with, them?"

:"Do something!"

is what I can come up with - in the mean time - because Military has been in the Cross hairs they rushed to find a "solution", now Burma promised to take care - WHAT HAS BEEN WON?

Burma to help Thailand on Rohingyas : Gen Songkitti

By Thai News Agency, The Nation

Burma's military leaders agreed to help Thailand solve the problem of the Rohingyas, an ethnic Muslim minority group from Burma, who risked uncertain passage on the high seas to seek work or asylum in the kingdom, Thai Supreme Commander Gen. Songkitti Jaggabatara.

Gen Songkitti, who has returned from Burma, said that he met Burma's Vice Chairman of the ruling State Peace and Development Council (SPDC) and Army Chief Deputy Senior General Muang Aye and had discussed the rohingya problem.

He said that Gen Muang Mye had accepted Thailand's request to help address the rohingya issue even though the rohingya ethnic group was not on the official list of 120 ethnic minorities in Burma.

Initially, however, he indicated that Burma would cooperate by preventing the rohingya from approaching Thai territory.

Royal Thai Navy has been under criticism after international media reported claims that the Thai armed forces had mistreated the Rohingyas.

Source:

Burma claims already that they do NOT belong to a list of 120 Minorities.... and that Burma form now on will prevent them from entering Thai Waters....

Yes the UNHCR should convince Myanmar to let them back to their lands and monitort the situation there at the source of the problem!

Edited January 27, 2009 by Samuian

[blaze]

Thailand wants UN refugee agency in regional meeting on Rohingyas (article link)

BANGKOK, 27 January 2009 (TNA) - Thai Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva advised on Tuesday that the United Nations' refugee agency should be invited to join the recently proposed regional talk involving countries most concerned with resolution of the ethnic Muslim minority Rohingya migrants from Myanmar.

The Thai foreign ministry said its proposal to host the meeting with countries affected by the flow of intending migrants received positive responses from Indonesia, Malaysia, Myanmar, India and Bangladesh.

Mr. Abhisit said he had discussed with the foreign ministry the possibility of inviting the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) to join the regional meeting in an attempt to tackle the problem at its root cause.

"The UNHCR should be invited to join the proposed meeting as the Rohingya problem is a transnational issue and Thailand is not the cause of problem," Mr. Abhisit said.

The Thai premier made his remarks following recent foreign media reports about Rohingya migrants alleged to have been mistreated by the Royal Thai Navy before being pushed back to international waters in the Andaman Sea.

Despite his defence of the Thai armed forces and related security agencies in their treatment of the migrants, Mr. Abhisit, conceded that there might be some Thai officials involved with human trafficking syndicates, and said that he had ordered an investigation of the matter.

The premier said he hoped the international community would come to a better understanding regarding Thailand's stance on the migrant issue once it has been discussed among all parties concerned.

The Rohingyas are a Myanmar Muslim ethnic minority who fled to India and Bangladesh to escape persecution by the military junta.

Given the relatively short distance between the refugee camps and Thailand's western coasts, the migrants reportedly arrive in Thailand by sea through transnational human smuggling networks which may include Thai nationals and the complicity of some officials. (TNA)

It is not Thailand's stance on the migrant issue that is at question. What is at question here are the alleged actions of some elements of the Thai armed forces- And regardless of Abhisit's attempts to rationalize those behaviors- the international community, rightly or wrongly, will find them inexcusable- and Abhisit of all people, should understand that: he must realize that the foreign community, by and large, still views the act of taking over the airport as an illegal activity- regardless of the rationalizations given by the PAD and its supporters.

G W Bush did his level best to justify the detainment of suspected terrorists in Gitmo- but the international community didn't care about his reasons- only that the nature of the detainment was abhorant.

I'm sorry, but I think that his attempts to shift the blame (if the actions did in fact take place)= will not be quite as easily swallowed by the UN as it might be by the citizens.

In one sense though, this reminds me a bit of the drug wars- something awful may have occurred- but not even the opposition is jumping on it? Why? Possibly many- if not most Thais can't understand why anyone would care if a barge full of criminals was dragged out to the middle of the sea. After all, like the monk who explained that he didn't kill the fish, he merely removed it from the water- the armed forces didn't murder these people- they merely put them in the middle of the ocean in motorless barges- and if they died= blame the ocean.

[Jingthing]

After all, like the monk who explained that he didn't kill the fish, he merely removed it from the water- the armed forces didn't murder these people- they merely put them in the middle of the ocean in motorless barges- and if they died= blame the ocean.

I think you are on to something with that example. Wow.

[Scott]

One of the reasons there are conventions on human rights and on the treatment of refugees etc., is because it is important to set a standard of treatment for other human beings that transcends immediate circumstances. Virtually no country wants refugees, but they are bound by the 'rules'. Of course, the people in Thailand don't want them.

Burma doesn't recommend them as a minority group! Burma doesn't give them citizenship. The military here talking to the military there is really quite scary for these people.

[coalminer]

The new Thai Prime Minister, Abhisit Vejjajiva, appears to be serious about human rights violations, including the alleged abuse of 400 Rohingya refugees discovered by the Thai military in December 2008. The Thai Navy is accused of beating them up, tying their hands together and sending them out to sea in a leaky boat, without enough food and water.

He has also ordered the Thai police to redouble efforts to get to the bottom of four major investigations that have yield "no results": the abduction of lawyer Somchai Neelaphaijit, the murder of four Saidi Arabian diplomats, the shooting of US citizen Donald Wilding, and shipping agent Kornthep Viriya.

"If the cases remain unsolved, it will affect the country's image regarding justice", said the Prime Minister. Today's Bangkok Post says he also welcomed the UN's High Commissioner's for Refugees request to talk to the Rohingya immigrants still in Thai custody. But the Prime Minister also stressed the need to tackle the root cause of the problem of Rohingya refugees: in Burma where they are routinely mistreated by the Burmese authorities. He made it clear that the Thai government was willing to co-operate with UNHCR to shed light on claims that the Thai navy had mistreated the refugees in December.

Colonel Mansas Kongpan of the Internal Security Operations Command appears to have changed his story concerning the mistreatment of the Burmese. He now says that all Burmese boat people who arrived in December were sent out to sea with food and water, (before he had denied knowledge of the incident). And yet, he told the House Committee on Foreign Affairs, on Wednesday, that last year 4,880 Rehingya were arrested for illegally entering the country and 90 percent of them are still awaiting repatriation.Yet the Rohingya refugees being held in Thailand say they were put in a boat with no engine and with just two sacks of boiled rice and two gallons of water. They also claim that two of their group of 400 were shot by the Thai authorities, while loading the supplies.

The Prime Minister has asked the UN to help Thailand solve the problem and said that Thailand would stick to humanitarian principles in tackling the issue. But Sanitsuda Ekachai, Asst Editor of Bangkok Post, says she believes Thailand looks more at Burma's oil, its gas, its timber and its gems!

[saneroad]

CNN (web site) has reported that another boat load of Rohingya's has arrived in Thailand. I believe it said 78. Wonder how they are going to be treated?

Very differently, we hear. Turned over to Ranong police, not the army.

More Boat People Arrested: Army Not Involved

Reuters, AP and AFP have all just posted stories on this, too...

[samgrowth]

CNN (web site) has reported that another boat load of Rohingya's has arrived in Thailand. I believe it said 78. Wonder how they are going to be treated?

Very differently, we hear. Turned over to Ranong police, not the army.

More Boat People Arrested: Army Not Involved

Reuters, AP and AFP have all just posted stories on this, too...

I hope the Royal Thai Navy are trial in court for men slaughter. How could they tow hundreds to the open seas and let them die a slow death.

[Scott]

It will be interesting to see if/when the report gets completed and what justification/excuses will be used for the actions taken.

At least at this point, it appears that the boat people will receive some semblance of care. For such 'gentle' people, it's quite amazing what they can do when they think no one is watching.

[GungaDin]

Thailand's public relations office must be tearing their hair out since they (the gov't) have brought so much <deleted> down upon themselves since the arrest of Harry the Greek, Pad's closure of the airport, boat people etc. etc. etc.

Every newspaper in the world is featuring Thailand for all to see the dark side of Thailand.

I'm glad I'm not in the tourism industry in Thailand.

Link

.

Edited January 28, 2009 by GungaDin

[Jai Dee]

Another boatload of Rohingyas arrives in

A boat with 78 Rohingyas arrived in Ranong on the southern Andaman coast yesterday amid mounting pressure on the government over ill-treatment of the ethnic minority from Burma.

The latest boat people are aged from 14 to 55 years old. Some of those found in a rickety boat with a broken engine off the coast of Ranong near Surin Island were injured, Lieutenant Kwanchai Ketphan, a navy commander said.

They were later handed to police after being given food and water, he said.

Marud Hussen, 50, spoke to reporters in broken Thai. He said he and his colleagues collected 10 million Kyat (about Bt350,000) to hire the boat to leave Arakan state in Burma on December 30.

The group wanted to seek work in Ranong before extending their journey to Malaysia, he said.

The stateless rohingya are mostly Muslims who have fled Burma or Bangladesh to seek a better life in Southeast Asia. Thailand has about 20,000 of them in port cities working in fish industry.

The plight of rohingya has been in the spotlight in recent weeks since reports surfaced about the Thai Navy allegedly towing about 1,000 of them back to sea. Hundreds are said to have died.

Survivors rescued by India's Coast Guard said they were abandoned at sea with little food and water in December.

The military has denied acting in an inhumane way but pictures emerged recently of a boat full of Rohingyas being towed out to sea.

The United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees is still waiting for an official response from the Foreign Ministry to a request last week to see some 126 rohingya believed to have arrived in Thailand nearly two weeks ago.

The Foreign Ministry has said it was unable to verify their whereabouts. One report indicated they were "escorted" back to sea by the Navy days ago.

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva said the government had agreed to meet the UN refugee agency and had also offered to host a regional meeting with all concerned countries to try to tackle the root cause of the problem.

The Foreign Ministry came up with the idea last week for a regional conference with ambassador from Bangladesh, Burma, India, Indonesia and Malaysia.

Thai Supreme Commander Gen. Songkitti Jaggabatara said Burma's military leaders agreed to help Thailand solve the problem. Thousands of Rohingyas have been arriving on the southern coast in recent years.

Gen Songkitti, who has returned from Burma, said he met the vice chairman of Burma's ruling State Peace and Development Council (SPDC) and deputy Army chief Senior General Maung Aye to talk about the problem.

He said Gen Maung Aye had accepted Thailand's request to help address the rohingya issue even though the ethnic group was not on their official list of 120 ethnic minorities in Burma.

Initially, he indicated that Burma would cooperate by preventing the rohingya from approaching Thai territory.

Source: The Nation - 28 January 2009

[Steve2UK]

<snip>

Gen Songkitti, who has returned from Burma, said he met the vice chairman of Burma's ruling State Peace and Development Council (SPDC) and deputy Army chief Senior General Maung Aye to talk about the problem.

He said Gen Maung Aye had accepted Thailand's request to help address the rohingya issue even though the ethnic group was not on their official list of 120 ethnic minorities in Burma.

Initially, he indicated that Burma would cooperate by preventing the rohingya from approaching Thai territory.

Source: The Nation - 28 January 2009

You can imagine what form that "cooperation" will take - or maybe you don't have to..........

Rohingyas claim Myanmar abuse

Al Jazeera has uncovered fresh evidence from Thailand's southwestern coast of another instance of abuse of Muslim Rohingya boat people. A recently arrived group of refugees say their boat was boarded by soldiers from Myanmar, who beat them and tried to set fire to their vessel...................

.............. The Thai authorities who rescued the latest group of Rohingya migrants, told Al Jazeera that once these men are processed by immigration, they too will be pushed back out of Thailand by land or, more likely, by sea.

Full article at:

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia-pac...2413469914.html

[submaniac]

Seems like the PM is blowing smoke. Good for PR, but as always I doubt anything will actually be done.

[GuestHouse]

Kitty MacKenzie(sp?) of the UNHCR in Bangkok was this morning speaking to the BBC World Service and stated that the UNHCR is now pressing Thailand for access to any of these refugees who are in custody.

She also stated that the PM has instructed that dealing with the Refugees shall be moved from an Army duty to a Police duty.

[samgrowth]

Kitty MacKenzie(sp?) of the UNHCR in Bangkok was this morning speaking to the BBC World Service and stated that the UNHCR is now pressing Thailand for access to any of these refugees who are in custody.

She also stated that the PM has instructed that dealing with the Refugees shall be moved from an Army duty to a Police duty.

The army are well to dump their enermies to a slow death (in the open seas).

The police is known to rob their victims of their valuable (have you been stopped by a traffic police before?).

They team up pretty well.

[Tyke]

mmmmm....., chains, torture, no presumption of innocence by the military, presumption that they must be terrorists .......... almost as bad as Guantanamo, except that at least in this case, the Head of government says he is against it.

Edited January 28, 2009 by Tyke

[Scott]

Steve2UK: Thanks for the link. It's very scary to think that basically everyone is having a crack and making these people's lives more difficult. It's particularly scary to think that the Thai officials are again contemplating putting this group back out to sea.

[submaniac]

mmmmm....., chains, torture, no presumption of innocence by the military, presumption that they must be terrorists .......... almost as bad as Guantanamo, except that at least in this case, the Head of government says he is against it.

Guantanamo is at least ordered closed....

[Tyke]

mmmmm....., chains, torture, no presumption of innocence by the military, presumption that they must be terrorists .......... almost as bad as Guantanamo, except that at least in this case, the Head of government says he is against it.

Guantanamo is at least ordered closed....

mmmmm.... to make Guantanamo equal, the Rohingha abuse has at least another 8 years to run.

[Scott]

Any possible link to terrorism would be quite dubious. Were there explosives aboard the boats? Can they read or write? Are they trained as engineers (Oh, they can't even repair a boat engine)? Terrorists are generally well-funded and tend to 'blend' in--not exactly the hallmark of this group. As far as national security threat is concerned, that is plausible. Thousands of undocumented people running around is not in the interest of the country.

But the possible concerns can only be addressed if they are treated as refugees and screened to find out where they are coming from, what is 'pushing' them out of their own area and what is 'pulling' them in this direction. Those facing persecution need to be protected, those who do not, need to be repatriated to their country of origin.

In addition to the UNHCR, there are numerous international organizations that are more than willing to assist with the problem, both internally in Thailand as well as in dealing with the home countries of these people.

Further mistreatment is not likely to solve the problem. Even the disappearance of large numbers of them won't stop others from coming if the situation at home is bad enough.

[Steve2UK]

Press release posted on MFA (Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs) website this morning:

The Issue of Illegal Migrants in the Andaman Sea

January 28, 2009, 8:57 am

The issue of illegal migrants in the Andaman Sea, of which the Rohingyas are the biggest group, is one which Thailand, and other countries in the region, has been facing for a number of years. More recently, the flows have numbered several thousands each year, with the number of arrests rising four-fold since 2007. Estimates point out that up to 20,000 such illegal migrants presently remain in Thailand, and the difficulties we have faced in dealing with this "floating population" reflect some of the complexity of the issue. The situation of the Rohingyas reflects that of economic migrants searching for a better life in countries in the region.

As with many countries in the region and elsewhere, we have refused entry to illegal migrants entering the Kingdom. Legal channels exist for employment in Thailand, but accepting those arriving in an irregular manner would simply encourage new arrivals. Thailand has long been pragmatic in dealing with these groups, but large inflows in recent years have tested our absorption capacity. In fact, there is no shortage of unscrupulous agents, smugglers and traffickers in the region waiting to take advantage of the opportunities offered by such flows. Furthermore, given that boat arrivals are comprised of large numbers of adult males, safeguarding the property and safety of the local population requires that concerned officials take appropriate measures in accordance with Thai law.

Irregular movements affect countries in many regions of the world. In the Americas, in Europe, in East Africa, and in the Asia-Pacific, countries are faced with illegal migration by sea. In order to exercise control and surveillance over its maritime zones in accordance with international law, Thailand strictly adheres to applicable international legal norms, especially the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) articles 21, 25 and 33, which uphold the right of coastal states in preventing the infringement of their immigration laws and regulations within their territorial waters and contiguous zone.

In addition, the Protocol Against the Smuggling of Migrants by Land, Air and Sea, supplementing the UN Convention against Transnational Organized Crime of 2000, which Thailand has signed, provides that if there are reasonable grounds to suspect that a vessel which is without nationality is engaged in the smuggling of migrants by sea, State Parties shall take appropriate measures in accordance with relevant domestic and international law.

Concerning the case in point, there is no reasonable ground to believe that these illegal migrants fled from their country of origin for well-founded fear of being persecuted. Their profile and their seasonal travel further support the picture that they are illegal migrants, and not those requiring international protection under the Convention relating to the Status of Refugees of 1951.

The Thai authorities have been implementing measures to deal with this complex issue of illegal migration, further complicated by the long length of the Andaman coastline through which illegal migrants are seeking entry, and the limited resources available. In the first place, all new arrivals that are detected along the coastline would be stopped, questioned and have their needs assessed. If no evidence is found of their involvement in smuggling activities, they would be supported in terms of basic humanitarian needs before undergoing repatriation or escorted out of Thai territory in accordance with Thai laws. In cases where there are grounds for believing their involvement in smuggling activities, they would undergo a thorough investigation before being repatriated or escorted out in accordance with Thai laws. And where the encounter happens at sea, such persons will be assisted in terms of basic needs to enable them to go on their course in safety. In these processes, a humane treatment and upholding basic human rights is a guiding principle for all involved. Given the already enormous burden of 3 million illegal migrants present in Thailand, we cannot afford to be a country of destination or a country of transit for irregular movements, with their impacts in social and economic as well as in security terms.

As for the serious allegations raised in the various reports and interviews, including that various forms of mistreatment were inflicted on the illegal migrants and that intentional damage was done to their boats or their engines, this must be categorically denied as having no place in policy and procedures. Nevertheless, should concrete evidence be presented, the Thai Government would seriously look into such cases and further verification carried out. Indeed, despite the various difficulties involved, we have upheld our humanitarian tradition and ensured that new arrivals are adequately provided with food, water and medicines, with necessary repairs to their boats.

We further note that this issue has to be addressed at source, at the social and economic conditions in the areas of origin. And as the problem has a regional dimension, with onward movements and the involvement national and transnational criminal networks, it requires cooperation. It does not involve one particular country, but is a collective problem that the concerned countries, whether countries of origin or first destination, countries of transit and countries of destination, should address collectively and in a coordinated manner. Thailand has already committed itself to such efforts, and will continue to welcome cooperation on this issue, including the contribution of relevant international organizations. Indeed, if the problem is solved at its source through the mobilization of resources of the international community by the relevant international organizations, then there would not be the problem of economic migrants having had to make a perilous journey to reach Southeast Asian shores.

In this regard, dialogues between Thailand and the UNHCR and the IOM on the issue of the illegal migrants in the Andaman Sea have been ongoing for quite some time. We have made it clear that for Thailand, this issue is one of economic migrants, while expressing a readiness to work with all concerned. In this regard, Thailand stands ready to cooperate with relevant international organizations such as the UNHCR, IOM and others which may assist the countries concerned to address this issue, in accordance with their respective mandates. Furthermore, the Minister of Foreign Affairs looks forward to discussing this issue, and Thailand's long-standing humanitarian cooperation with the UNHCR, with High Commissioner for Refugees Guterres when they meet in Geneva on 2 February 2009. And as the UNHCR may be restricted in its mandate on this matter, Thailand will also consult with the IOM on its specific mandate of assisting migrants.

In addition to our consultations with the related international organizations, Thailand has also proposed to the countries affected by this problem of illegal migration in the Andaman Sea to set up a contact group among these countries to coordinate short and long term measures to resolve this issue.

Thailand's track record reveals itself being faced with a succession of massive flows of people from neighbouring countries. Given remaining disparities in economic development, the search for a better life will continue to drive further movements into Thailand. We are trying to address the many social, economic and security issues involved in the current challenging economic climate. But our 40 year old humanitarian role deserves greater recognition in approaching this difficult issue.

http://www.mfa.go.th/web/35.php?id=21665

[my highlight above]

Many valid points raised in this - and it should always be remembered that few governments worldwide can lay claim to a spotless record in how they deal with refugee/migrant issues that confront them.

The section that I have highlighted does go to an important issue in itself. What constitutes "concrete evidence"? Even putting all the reports together, my own take is that they don't yet add up to conclusive proof of what has been alleged - but surely they add up to such a body of evidence that it should at least trigger a proper (i.e. demonstrably thorough and impartial) Thai investigation that will stand up to scrutiny when the results are made known - if they are - and without waiting for "concrete evidence" to be presented by others e.g. foreign media, Phuket Wan and UNHCR etc? Plain common sense suggests that this would be in Thailand's interest if they are proved correct in their assertion that "we have upheld our humanitarian tradition and ensured that new arrivals are adequately provided with food, water and medicines, with necessary repairs to their boats".

"Necessary repairs to their boats" doesn't seem to square with several separate (i.e. corroborating) reports that engines have been removed before the boats were towed out to sea; neither does "upheld our humanitarian tradition" square well with the tourists' eye witness accounts of beatings on the beach.

The first sentence of the highlighted section may well be true as stated - i.e. the alleged actions "having no place in policy and procedures". But this also depends on your definition of what makes an action/practice "policy and procedure" - i.e. how far up the chain of command (and thus "official") does it go?

As mentioned before, deputy heads seem likely to roll before this is over. I suspect that a certain colonel is already contemplating the odds of his being "moved to an inactive post" - and Navy officers of equivalent rank likewise........ as in "Will they choose me?".

Edited January 28, 2009 by Steve2UK

[Jai Dee]

Foreign Ministry: Thailand clings to human rights, UN law in Rohingyas’ case

Thailand strictly adheres to applicable international legal norms, especially the United Nations (UN) Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) as the nation normally assists boats’ persons in the sea, including the Rohingyas, in terms of basic needs to enable them to go on their course in safety. Thailand upholds basic human rights to ensure that new arrivals are adequately provided with food, water and medicines, with necessary repairs to their boats, according to Ministry of Foreign Affairs .

The Ministry of Foreign Affairs clarified the issue of illegal migrants in the Andaman Sea, of which the Rohingyas are the biggest group, is one which Thailand and other countries in the region have been facing for a number of years.

More recently, the flows have numbered several thousands each year, with the number of arrests rising four-fold since 2007. Estimates point out that up to 20,000 such illegal migrants presently remain in Thailand.

“The difficulties we have faced in dealing with this “floating population” reflect some of the complexity of the issue. The situation of the Rohingyas reflects that of economic migrants searching for a better life in countries in the region” spokesman of the Ministry of Finance said today (January 28).

“As with many countries in the region and elsewhere, we have refused entry to illegal migrants entering the nation. Legal channels exist for employment in Thailand, but accepting those arriving in an irregular manner would simply encourage new arrivals,” he said.

“Thailand has long been pragmatic in dealing with these groups, but large inflows in recent years have tested our absorption capacity. In fact, there is no shortage of unscrupulous agents, smugglers and traffickers in the region waiting to take advantage of the opportunities offered by such flows”, he added.

Furthermore, given that boat arrivals are comprised of large numbers of adult males, safeguarding the property and safety of the local population requires that concerned officials take appropriate measures in accordance with Thai law.

Irregular movements affect countries in many regions of the world. In the Americas, in Europe, in East Africa, and in the Asia-Pacific, countries are faced with illegal migration by sea.

In order to exercise control and surveillance over its maritime zones in accordance with international law, Thailand strictly adheres to applicable international legal norms, especially the United Nations (UN) Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) articles 21, 25 and 33, which uphold the right of coastal states in preventing the infringement of their immigration laws and regulations within their territorial waters and contiguous zone.

In addition, the Protocol Against the Smuggling of Migrants by Land, Air and Sea, supplementing the UN Convention against Transnational Organized Crime of 2000, which Thailand has signed, provides that if there are reasonable grounds to suspect that a vessel which is without nationality is engaged in the smuggling of migrants by sea, State Parties shall take appropriate measures in accordance with relevant domestic and international law.

Concerning the case in point, there is no reasonable ground to believe that these illegal migrants fled from their country of origin for well-founded fear of being persecuted. Their profile and their seasonal travel further support the picture that they are illegal migrants, and not those requiring international protection under the Convention relating to the Status of Refugees of 1951.

The Thai authorities have been implementing measures to deal with this complex issue of illegal migration, further complicated by the long length of the Andaman coastline through which illegal migrants are seeking entry, and the limited resources available.

In the first place, all new arrivals that are detected along the coastline would be stopped, questioned and have their needs assessed. If no evidence is found of their involvement in smuggling activities, they would be supported in terms of basic humanitarian needs before undergoing repatriation or escorted out of Thai territory in accordance with Thai laws.

In cases where there are grounds for believing their involvement in smuggling activities, they would undergo a thorough investigation before being repatriated or escorted out in accordance with Thai laws.

And where the encounter happens at sea, such persons will be assisted in terms of basic needs to enable them to go on their course in safety. In these processes, a humane treatment and upholding basic human rights is a guiding principle for all involved.

“Given the already enormous burden of three million illegal migrants present in Thailand, we cannot afford to be a country of destination or a country of transit for irregular movements, with their impacts in social and economic as well as in security terms” said the spokesman.

As for the serious allegations raised in the various reports and interviews, including that various forms of mistreatment were inflicted on the illegal migrants and that intentional damage was done to their boats or their engines, this must be categorically denied as having no place in policy and procedures.

Nevertheless, should concrete evidence be presented, the Thai Government would seriously look into such cases and further verification carried out.

“Indeed, despite the various difficulties involved, we have upheld our humanitarian tradition and ensured that new arrivals are adequately provided with food, water and medicines, with necessary repairs to their boats”, he said.

“We further note that this issue has to be addressed at source, at the social and economic conditions in the areas of origin. And as the problem has a regional dimension, with onward movements and the involvement national and transnational criminal networks, it requires cooperation,” he added.

It does not involve one particular country, but is a collective problem that the concerned countries, whether countries of origin or first destination, countries of transit and countries of destination, should address collectively and in a coordinated manner.

Thailand has already committed itself to such efforts, and will continue to welcome cooperation on this issue, including the contribution of relevant international organizations.

Indeed, if the problem is solved at its source through the mobilization of resources of the international community by the relevant international organizations, then there would not be the problem of economic migrants having had to make a perilous journey to reach Southeast Asian shores.

In this regard, dialogues between Thailand and the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR), the UN refugee agency, and the International Organization for Migration (IOM) on the issue of the illegal migrants in the Andaman Sea have been ongoing for quite some time.

“We have made it clear that for Thailand, this issue is one of economic migrants, while expressing a readiness to work with all concerned,” he said.

In this regard, Thailand stands ready to cooperate with relevant international organizations such as the UNHCR, IOM and others which may assist the countries concerned to address this issue, in accordance with their respective mandates.

Furthermore, the Minister of Foreign Affairs looks forward to discussing this issue, and Thailand’s long-standing humanitarian cooperation with the UNHCR, with High Commissioner for Refugees Guterres when they meet in Geneva on February 2. And as the UNHCR may be restricted in its mandate on this matter, Thailand will also consult with the IOM on its specific mandate of assisting migrants.

“In addition to our consultations with the related international organizations, Thailand has also proposed to the countries affected by this problem of illegal migration in the Andaman Sea to set up a contact group among these countries to coordinate short and long term measures to resolve this issue” he added.

Thailand’s track record reveals itself being faced with a succession of massive flows of people from neighbouring countries. Given remaining disparities in economic development, the search for a better life will continue to drive further movements into Thailand.

“We are trying to address the many social, economic and security issues involved in the current challenging economic climate. But our 40 years old humanitarian role deserves greater recognition in approaching this difficult issue” he said.

Source: National News Bureau of Thailand - 28 January 2009

[samgrowth]

Instead of pushing this people out to sea and hope they they land in India, Indonesia, or Malaysia is pure stupidity. Just passing Thailand propblem to another country, whom I believe will act the same, pushing the problem back to Thailand. Back to square one.

Just immagine a poor Thai farmers managed to land in LAX without a proper visa & money. Instead of flying the poor Thai farmers back to BKK, the US put him in a small boat WITHOUT sail and motor, provided 5kg of sticky rice and 5 litres of evian, and tow it out to the Pacific; hoping that the tide might send this poor Thai farmer to Mexico or Canada, if not all the way Thailand.

Why can't the Royal Thai Navy put them on the first available TG or FD to Yangon. End of story. It may cost the Thai Govt a plane ticket, but this can be billed to the Myanmar Embassy in Bangkok. Or, on a cheap, truck them just a few kilometers to Ranong land border with Myanmar, and let them walk across. Or ferry them across to the Myanmar casino island just a few minutes boat ride from Ranong pier.

Edited January 28, 2009 by samgrowth

[Scott]

Thanks Jai Dee. Unfortunately for Thailand, actions speaker louder than words.

[Indo-Siam]

The Thai government basically has four problems with the ongoing situation:

1. How to best discourage additional follow-on refugees.

2. How to best address criticisms from NGO's and governments outside Thailand.

3. How to treat the existing refugees.

4. How to best protect the interests of the people/taxpayers of Thailand - from whom taxation is levied, and from whose interests government resources will be diverted to feed and care for refugees.

It seems that many vocal organizations are stressing #3 and #2 - and giving "lip-service" attention to #1 and #4.

I would sort of expect Thailand to have as its priorities:

#1

#4

#3

#2

What works best for addressing any one item, does not necessarily provide minimally acceptable outcomes within the other items.

Thailand has a long history of absorbing refugees - Vietnamese, Hmong, Cambodian, etc. When refugees shared common social structures to the vast majority of peaceful Thai citizens, things have not tended to get too ugly. And - other countries have generally stepped in to take away many of the refugees.

Unfortunately, the Rohingyas share a common social/religious heritage with the one population within Thailand that is arguably dominated by decidedly non-peaceful leaders - the Muslim separatists of PULO. If I understand correctly, the Rohingyas are not traveling to Thailand directly from their own Rakhine state in Burma (which shares no borders with Thailand) - but are instead coming from refugee camps in Bangladesh.

It makes me wonder - the Rohingyas are Muslim, Bangladesh is Muslim, Malaysia is Muslim - why are the Thais expected to become the receptive home of more indigent Muslims - given that Thailand already has a significant problem with its Muslim population. It seems to me that there is something wrong with this picture. This is not a profile of a political refugee population - it is the profile of economic refugees.

[JimsKnight]

Yep it seems pretty rich that the whole refugee 'mentality' EXPECTS a handout from a country and suddenly when the other country raises its hand there is such a buzz from the bleeding liberals.

Thailand does what it wants and doesn't need to kow tow to the UN or any of the other meddlers who want to control everyone.

Ok putting them on a boat without enough food and water is a bit crazy and cruel.

BUT how much is enough? For all we know they might of been given enough but failed to ration it when at sea or got lost before making landfall. There is more to this than just one side of the story.

The Thais are not wanting to look like a soft touch, if they make it look like a 2nd Britain to the asian refugees then they'll be faced with a deluge of them, not the odd one and two we hear about once in a blue moon.

[Jingthing]

Ok putting them on a boat without enough food and water is a bit crazy and cruel.

A bit.

Did it ever occur to you that the UN may sometimes be a force for good in the world? Its amazing how people (even so called religious people) fail to see "others" as human beings, the same as them. Bleeding heart, better than a black heart.

Edited January 28, 2009 by Jingthing

[samgrowth]

It makes me wonder - the Rohingyas are Muslim, Bangladesh is Muslim, Malaysia is Muslim - why are the Thais expected to become the receptive home of more indigent Muslims - given that Thailand already has a significant problem with its Muslim population. It seems to me that there is something wrong with this picture. This is not a profile of a political refugee population - it is the profile of economic refugees.

There is noting wrong with having Muslim in Thailand, may it be in the South or anywhere in Thailand. Thailand have religous freedom.

I also find this article interesting. Why do they have to drag HM into this too?

http://my-1.themalaysianinsider.com/index....ach--the-nation

Rohingya refugee issue needs a holistic approach - The Nation

JAN 27 – Thailand’s call for a conference in Bangkok of a focus group on the Rohingya issue is a good initiative.

All the stakeholders could meet and work out practicable and durable solutions on a trans-national issue that increasingly needs a comprehensive and multilateral approach.

In responding to the outcry of the international community on the Rohingya saga in the past weeks, Foreign Minister Kasit Piromya acted quickly by consulting all concerned countries, including Burma, Bangladesh, Malaysia, Indonesia and India to find solutions.

Last week the Foreign Ministry met and discussed with the ambassadors from these five countries and stressed that this is a regional issue that would need joint common efforts.

The plight of the Rohingya refugees has suddenly become a hot topic after nearly 650 of them were rescued in the territorial waters of India and Indonesia.

The Royal Thai Navy was alleged by international human rights organisations of pushing back these refugees out to the Andaman Sea where they had come from. Several hundreds of people, it has been contended, might have died at sea.

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva demanded a thorough investigation and pledged to punish whoever was behind such inhumane actions.

The Rohingya refugees and asylum seekers are a minority in Burma’s northern Arakan state. During 1991-92, around 270,000 refugees fled to Bangladesh to escape persecution by the Burmese military junta.

Over the years, the UN High Commissioner for Refugees has successfully repatriated at least 230,000 Rohingyas back to Burma. The rest are staying in the two main camps – Nayapara and Kutupalong in Cox’s Bazar – without any real prospects of going home.

Due to the short distance between these camps and Thailand’s western coastal areas, they began to come by boats in the mid-1990s, before it became headline news.

Gradually the numbers became bigger and the influx more frequent, especially during this time of the year when the sea is usually calmer.

They would arrive in Ranong and other coastal provinces through vast transnational human smuggling rings, either on transit to Malaysia or Indonesia, or in search for a better life in Thailand.

Being Muslims, most of them would like to find jobs or be settled in the same religious environment. But quite often, at the first transit point, they usually ended up being exploited in Thailand.

During the Surayud Chulanont government, Thai authorities were instructed not to push them back out into the sea as it could endanger their lives. Instead, the visitors would be detained and given food and transported to the Thai-Burma border either in Kanchanaburi or Tha Songyang. They were sent across the border safely.

However, the soft Thai response has encouraged human smuggling rings to increase their operations as no risks were involved for them. If they failed, these asylum seekers would eventually end up in the refugee camps along the Burma-Bangladesh border.

Out of desperation, some of these refugees attempted to come to Thailand again.

According to the US Committee for Refugees and Immigrants (USCRI), more than 14 million people around the world fled their homes either due to war or persecution in 2007.

Thailand is one of top destinations with over 400,000 refugees and asylum seekers. USCRI pointed out that, Thailand along with Malaysia, China, Bangladesh and India are among the worst violators within Asia of the international principles as outlined by the UN Convention on Refugees 1951.

At the moment, according to unofficial statistics, Thailand is home to more than five million refugees, asylum seekers and illegal migrant workers and visa over-stayers in one form or another from over a dozen countries, including all bordering countries except Malaysia, and countries as far as Iran, Afghanistan, Uzbekistan, Russia, North Korea, China, India, Nepal, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh and Pakistan as well as a few thousands of illegal immigrants from Western countries.

Despite several improved measures to increase coordination among intra-agencies in the past, on the whole the Thai treatment of these unfortunate people still comes under fire due to the lack of consistency, compassion and cooperation with international organisations, including UNHCR and numerous humanitarian organisations.

One hindrance is Thailand’s continuous refusal to sign the 1951 Refugee Convention. Fear and a lack of understanding of the convention have prevented the country from joining 147 other nations that have done so.

Strange as it may seem, when it comes to accession or ratification of international treaties and protocols, the concerned Thai officials are overly cautious in interpreting Thailand’s commitments. They tend to overdo it.

Thailand took a long time to sign on to the UN against Torture Treaty in 2007. The efforts to ratify the International Criminal Court of Justice, which Thailand proudly signed in 2000, have fallen flat in the past eight years as some conservative lawyers thought that doing so would subject the Thai royal family to the ICC court of justice.

Like a lot else in this country, whenever events and issues are related to the monarchy, the responsible authorities tend to play safe and exaggerate the impacts – real or imagined – without scrutinising the ever-changing domestic and international environments.

A more level-headed rationalisation is urgently needed.

Upon closer scrutiny, it is a real blessing in disguise that the Rohingya problem blew up in the face of the Abhisit-led government. First of all, given his professed high moral ground, Abhisit will definitely act on issues related to human rights and freedom of expression sooner than later.

Secondly, the Rohingya refugees also exposed the Thai government’s limit, or for that matter what the countries at the receiving end can do on a human tragedy of this scale that they have not created.

Thirdly, their plight will enable the public and global communities to understand the problem’s root cause and solve it at the source.

Finally, it’s hoped this travesty would prompt all stakeholders to cooperate and provide more assistance, especially the UNHCR and other humanitarian organisations. – The Nation

[Samuian]

Foreign Ministry: Thailand clings to human rights, UN law in Rohingyas’ case

on. Legal channels exist for employment in Thailand, but accepting those arriving in an irregular manner would simply encourage new arrivals,” he said.

“Thailand has long been pragmatic in dealing with these groups, but large inflows in recent years have tested our absorption capacity. In fact, there is no shortage of unscrupulous agents, smugglers and traffickers in the region waiting to take advantage of the opportunities offered by such flows”, he added.

Furthermore, given that boat arrivals are comprised of large numbers of adult males, safeguarding the property and safety of the local population requires that concerned officials take appropriate measures in accordance with Thai law.

Irregular movements affect countries in many regions of the world. In the Americas, in Europe, in East Africa, and in the Asia-Pacific, countries are faced with illegal migration by sea.

In order to exercise control and surveillance over its maritime zones in accordance with international law, Thailand strictly adheres to applicable international legal norms, especially the United Nations (UN) Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) articles 21, 25 and 33, which uphold the right of coastal states in preventing the infringement of their immigration laws and regulations within their territorial waters and contiguous zone.

In addition, the Protocol Against the Smuggling of Migrants by Land, Air and Sea, supplementing the UN Convention against Transnational Organized Crime of 2000, which Thailand has signed, provides that if there are reasonable grounds to suspect that a vessel which is without nationality is engaged in the smuggling of migrants by sea, State Parties shall take appropriate measures in accordance with relevant domestic and international law.

Concerning the case in point, there is no reasonable ground to believe that these illegal migrants fled from their country of origin for well-founded fear of being persecuted. Their profile and their seasonal travel further support the picture that they are illegal migrants, and not those requiring international protection under the Convention relating to the Status of Refugees of 1951.

The Thai authorities have been implementing measures to deal with this complex issue of illegal migration, further complicated by the long length of the Andaman coastline through which illegal migrants are seeking entry, and the limited resources available.

In the first place, all new arrivals that are detected along the coastline would be stopped, questioned and have their needs assessed. If no evidence is found of their involvement in smuggling activities, they would be supported in terms of basic humanitarian needs before undergoing repatriation or escorted out of Thai territory in accordance with Thai laws.

In cases where there are grounds for believing their involvement in smuggling activities, they would undergo a thorough investigation before being repatriated or escorted out in accordance with Thai laws.

And where the encounter happens at sea, such persons will be assisted in terms of basic needs to enable them to go on their course in safety. In these processes, a humane treatment and upholding basic human rights is a guiding principle for all involved.

“Given the already enormous burden of three million illegal migrants present in Thailand, we cannot afford to be a country of destination or a country of transit for irregular movements, with their impacts in social and economic as well as in security terms” said the spokesman.

As for the serious allegations raised in the various reports and interviews, including that various forms of mistreatment were inflicted on the illegal migrants and that intentional damage was done to their boats or their engines, this must be categorically denied as having no place in policy and procedures.

Nevertheless, should concrete evidence be presented, the Thai Government would seriously look into such cases and further verification carried out.

“Indeed, despite the various difficulties involved, we have upheld our humanitarian tradition and ensured that new arrivals are adequately provided with food, water and medicines, with necessary repairs to their boats”, he said.

“We further note that this issue has to be addressed at source, at the social and economic conditions in the areas of origin. And as the problem has a regional dimension, with onward movements and the involvement national and transnational criminal networks, it requires cooperation,” he added.

It does not involve one particular country, but is a collective problem that the concerned countries, whether countries of origin or first destination, countries of transit and countries of destination, should address collectively and in a coordinated manner.

Thailand has already committed itself to such efforts, and will continue to welcome cooperation on this issue, including the contribution of relevant international organizations.

Indeed, if the problem is solved at its source through the mobilization of resources of the international community by the relevant international organizations, then there would not be the problem of economic migrants having had to make a perilous journey to reach Southeast Asian shores.

In this regard, dialogues between Thailand and the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR), the UN refugee agency, and the International Organization for Migration (IOM) on the issue of the illegal migrants in the Andaman Sea have been ongoing for quite some time.

“We have made it clear that for Thailand, this issue is one of economic migrants, while expressing a readiness to work with all concerned,” he said.

In this regard, Thailand stands ready to cooperate with relevant international organizations such as the UNHCR, IOM and others which may assist the countries concerned to address this issue, in accordance with their respective mandates.

Furthermore, the Minister of Foreign Affairs looks forward to discussing this issue, and Thailand’s long-standing humanitarian cooperation with the UNHCR, with High Commissioner for Refugees Guterres when they meet in Geneva on February 2. And as the UNHCR may be restricted in its mandate on this matter, Thailand will also consult with the IOM on its specific mandate of assisting migrants.

“In addition to our consultations with the related international organizations, Thailand has also proposed to the countries affected by this problem of illegal migration in the Andaman Sea to set up a contact group among these countries to coordinate short and long term measures to resolve this issue” he added.

Thailand’s track record reveals itself being faced with a succession of massive flows of people from neighbouring countries. Given remaining disparities in economic development, the search for a better life will continue to drive further movements into Thailand.

“We are trying to address the many social, economic and security issues involved in the current challenging economic climate. But our 40 years old humanitarian role deserves greater recognition in approaching this difficult issue” he said.

Source: National News Bureau of Thailand - 28 January 2009

I wonder there is only one picture of a boat being towed and it doesn't look as if there are hundreds of people in that vessel... and the photo regarding "mistreatment" and as it seems to be a rather long standing problem, could this be part of an instigated smearcampaign as well?

[Scott]

And smear campaign is organized by who? The Tourism Authority of Myanmar perhaps!

[Steve2UK]

The Thai government basically has four problems with the ongoing situation:

1. How to best discourage additional follow-on refugees.

2. How to best address criticisms from NGO's and governments outside Thailand.

3. How to treat the existing refugees.

4. How to best protect the interests of the people/taxpayers of Thailand - from whom taxation is levied, and from whose interests government resources will be diverted to feed and care for refugees.

It seems that many vocal organizations are stressing #3 and #2 - and giving "lip-service" attention to #1 and #4.

I would sort of expect Thailand to have as its priorities:

#1

#4

#3

#2

What works best for addressing any one item, does not necessarily provide minimally acceptable outcomes within the other items.

Thailand has a long history of absorbing refugees - Vietnamese, Hmong, Cambodian, etc. When refugees shared common social structures to the vast majority of peaceful Thai citizens, things have not tended to get too ugly. And - other countries have generally stepped in to take away many of the refugees.

Unfortunately, the Rohingyas share a common social/religious heritage with the one population within Thailand that is arguably dominated by decidedly non-peaceful leaders - the Muslim separatists of PULO. If I understand correctly, the Rohingyas are not traveling to Thailand directly from their own Rakhine state in Burma (which shares no borders with Thailand) - but are instead coming from refugee camps in Bangladesh.

It makes me wonder - the Rohingyas are Muslim, Bangladesh is Muslim, Malaysia is Muslim - why are the Thais expected to become the receptive home of more indigent Muslims - given that Thailand already has a significant problem with its Muslim population. It seems to me that there is something wrong with this picture. This is not a profile of a political refugee population - it is the profile of economic refugees.

Good analysis and, from a purely pragmatic point of view, I'd agree with the #'s 1,4,3,2 ordering of priorities for the Thai government.

Regarding your last two paragraphs - all the references to a destination that I have seen point to Malaysia and not Thailand........ which, of course, makes much more sense. In other words, for the Rohingya Thailand is just a waypoint - intentional or otherwise. Given the reports/evidence of beatings old and new on the latest group apprehended, I'd say it's a moot point where you can/should draw the line between political refugee and economic refugee/migrant. The indications are that the Rohingya are not applying for asylum in Malaysia (and probably wouldn't get it if they did) but rather are trying to join the other "illegals" already there. It's notable that all the Rohingya are males - i.e. not bringing family. Again, this tends to support the notion that they are trying to get somewhere to make money which they'll get back to their families still in Myanmar/Bangladesh. It could be argued that they're all equally eligible (as males) to join the Muslim insurgency in southern Thailand - but there seems to be no history of them having any interest whatever in that.