Financial Crisis

[lannarebirth]

How markets work today:

http://pragcap.com/must-read-the-real-forc...-and-volatility

[flying]

Here's an article that counters some of the accusations made by Taibbi.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_Economy/KG09Dj04.html

It seems this is the only place they disagree a little.....

So Goldman's CDS got fully paid off. What Taibbi does not say is that this has been fairly standard bailout operating philosophy - stockholders and taxpayers pay and pay, but bondholders (as long as they are not GM or Chrysler bondholders) are held inviolate.

Other than that they seem to be on the same page. In fact this article has some great analogies.... Of Goldman like this

It's almost as if a used car salesman, after promising a set of parents that the car they are purchasing for their daughter is totally safe, takes out extra insurance should the car's wheels fall off and the girl dies.

What is really odd is they say this...............

Just because so many of the people in the US government implementing the post-September financial system rescues such as the Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP) were Goldman alumni, Taibbi credits the whole initiative as just nothing more than a Goldman support operation. These include Paulson and TARP overseer Neel Kashkari under Bush, Treasury Chief of Staff Mark Patterson, Commodity Futures Trading Commission Chairman Gary Gensler, and New York Federal Reserve president Stephen Friedman. Once again, how dull our lives and futures are destined to be if we are bound through life to serve the interests of former employers.

Which is not only simplistic & comical but in hindsight looking at the fact that Lehman was pretty much the only one they did in fact let fail.....Makes Taibbi's statement much more credible.

Thanks for the link though as it was a good read.

Edited July 12, 2009 by flying

[flying]

How markets work today:

oxymoron

Funny too they say since 07

I remember back in 2000 thinking how much the internet

had changed investing.

Regular folks use to have to go or call their broker etc....

Now a click of the mouse & trades were done.

So many became day traders.

I know it sounds like sour grapes but....

toxic trading takes money from real investors and gives it to the high frequency trader who has the best computer.

You know when they said that.....It is the same thing I said long ago when I decided better to invest in yourself.

I really wish all the regular folks would just up & leave the markets. They ( folks like Goldman ) cannot make any money if there is no losers.

I wish folks who could change or redirect their pensions would...I wish folks who can close their 401k's & IRA's would.

Edited July 12, 2009 by flying

[lannarebirth]

How markets work today:

oxymoron

Funny too they say since 07

I remember back in 2000 thinking how much the internet

had changed investing.

Regular folks use to have to go or call their broker etc....

Now a click of the mouse & trades were done.

So many became day traders.

I know it sounds like sour grapes but....

toxic trading takes money from real investors and gives it to the high frequency trader who has the best computer.

You know when they said that.....It is the same thing I said long ago when I decided better to invest in yourself.

I really wish all the regular folks would just up & leave the markets. They ( folks like Goldman ) cannot make any money if there is no losers.

I wish folks who could change or redirect their pensions would...I wish folks who can close their 401k's & IRA's would.

Maybe you didn't read the whole article. Traders/Investors make a market. Their profits/losses do not stem from their computer speed or their ability to churn a market.

What's new is that the preponderance of volume is computer programs buying and selling to other computer programs not for positions or gains, but for the sole act of creating a transaction from which they can derive a commission. The examle given shows how they make money while price doesn't change at all. They've become a parasite attached to a host.

[flying]

Maybe you didn't read the whole article. Traders/Investors make a market. Their profits/losses do not stem from their computer speed or their ability to churn a market.

What's new is that the preponderance of volume is computer programs buying and selling to other computer programs not for positions or gains, but for the sole act of creating a transaction from which they can derive a commission. The examle given shows how they make money while price doesn't change at all. They've become a parasite attached to a host.

Yes I only read the main page & not the 5 page inserted doc.

But I was under the impression from recent news on the GS program that they do in fact profit from the trade, That they move millions of shares a short distance sometimes less than 1 cent but multiplied by millions they do profit.

But if in fact it is just the costs associated with the multitude of trades these days then again a good reason to stop? Who is it that profits from the commissions?

[flying]

Timber...................

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...id=aHOrbEKeCVzk

Would have thought they would be 2 big 2 fail

[flying]

Sequel of the Master Piece Money as Debt by Paul Grignon

Very short though at less than 9 minutes but Excellent !

Edited July 13, 2009 by flying

[Naam]

Sequel of the Master Piece Money as Debt by Paul Grignon Very short though at less than 9 minutes but Excellent !

i couldn't find anything in this clip for children which is excellent

[flying]

i couldn't find anything in this clip for children which is excellent

Good Clip eh?

The back ground on the author is cool too

http://paulgrignon.netfirms.com/MoneyasDeb...rsComments.html

You know without starting another post..............

I mentioned earlier it looks like CIT will fail

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...id=aHOrbEKeCVzk

A failure of CIT would be the biggest bank collapse since regulators seized Washington Mutual Inc. in September. CIT reported $75.7 billion in assets and $68.2 billion in liabilities, including $3 billion in deposits, at the end of the first quarter.

This will wreak some havoc this week for sure but........What I wonder is it seems as though the article is saying the FDIC will not back certain parts of its debt....

the century-old lender to 950,000 businesses that has been unable to persuade the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. to guarantee its debt sales, hired bankruptcy specialist Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom LLP as an adviser amid a plunge in its stock and bonds.

Not surprising since the FDIC is depositor insurance right?

So this could be a very interesting turn this week. Interesting to watch

Also I couldn't help but notice how little fanfare we get about banks closing at all these days. A week or so ago I was counting & saw 53 banks failed so far this year & we are only half way through 2009

Considering only a couple years back & it was uncommon to have one or at most we saw 3 or 4 a year. I find it amazing so little is said about it. I guess the FDIC is working & folks with their savings intact but just at another bank are not worried. Interesting

Edited July 13, 2009 by flying

[Naam]

i couldn't find anything in this clip for children which is excellent

The back ground on the author is cool too

yep, nothing cooler than cutting trees and then becoming a macro-economist cum "artist"

[midas]

Also I couldn't help but notice how little fanfare we get about banks closing at all these days. A week or so ago I was counting & saw 53 banks failed so far this year & we are only half way through 2009

Considering only a couple years back & it was uncommon to have one or at most we saw 3 or 4 a year. I find it amazing so little is said about it. I guess the FDIC is working & folks with their savings intact but just at another bank are not worried. Interesting

No no ! far more important things like Obama

meeting the TWO Russian leaders and The Pope..........

The crap they feed the sheeple to take their eye off the ball is astonishing

[flying]

No no ! far more important things like Obama

meeting the TWO Russian leaders and The Pope..........

The crap they feed the sheeple to take their eye off the ball is astonishing

Dont forget Michael Jackson

Man they covered the air waves all channels for days.

Nothing got in nothing got out. It was like a black hole.

[teletiger]

It was like a black hole.

MJ was reported to have had 2 gay lovers. You are wicked Flying.

Regards.

[midas]

No no ! far more important things like Obama

meeting the TWO Russian leaders and The Pope..........

The crap they feed the sheeple to take their eye off the ball is astonishing

Dont forget Michael Jackson

Man they covered the air waves all channels for days.

Nothing got in nothing got out. It was like a black hole.

I was thinking about you today flying !!

USA has changed beyond all recognition from when I lived and

worked in Los Angeles for a year..............

All these new Czars are weird and now John Holdren, Obama’s new “science czar,”

is really worrying.........what the hel_l is happening ....why do Americans accept all this ?

This is what John Holdren believes

Women could be forced to abort their pregnancies, whether they wanted to or not;

• The population at large could be sterilized by infertility drugs intentionally put into the nation’s drinking water or in food;

• Single mothers and teen mothers should have their babies seized from them against their will and given away to other couples to raise;

• People who “contribute to social deterioration” (i.e. undesirables) “can be required by law to exercise reproductive responsibility” — in other words, be compelled to have abortions or be sterilized.

• A transnational “Planetary Regime” should assume control of the global economy and also dictate the most intimate details of Americans’ lives — using an armed international police force.

[flying]

All these new Czars are weird and now John Holdren, Obama's new "science czar,"

is really worrying.........what the hel_l is happening ....why do Americans accept all this ?

Lots of folks have wondered the same as to whats with all the Czars & where are we Amerika?

As to why so much is being tolerated I am not sure if it is lazy toleration or just that thing I always mention. Folks having their heads so far down to the grindstone they really are too busy to notice. Then they are also constantly fed *events* on TV here. I swear this Afghanistan what ever they call it??? war...policing action etc etc etc... Is really playing off like a reality TV show/entertainment. Every night they show tons of footage....Soldiers landing looking serious...running in desert...climbing walls...shooting like crazy at something...But you never see anything or anyone. Just soldiers shooting supposed enemy. Never so much as one dead enemy never so much as one shot of the camera showing even one of the enemy shooting none. Yet all these camera's producing this *show* for the couch crowd back home. I mean lots of footage so lots of cameras...Even little blond weather girl types with helmet & vest holding microphone saying....Yes very bad here Taliban everywhere trying to stop Afghans from voting etc....I swear you should see the ammo being spent thousand of rounds being shot into???

I am not saying bad does not exist in the world....But I am not seeing it on our Afghan war reality TV show here....makes me wonder who the bad guys are. Also they sure have the politics down...Lots of camera shots of soldiers rubbing little kids heads etc... Like no worries we are here now have a lollipop..... I am sure they will round up a few bad guys soon enough eh? Other wise ratings on this new Afghan reality show will surely plummet Oh they did show a bad of AK47 rounds & 4 RPG's they found last night. That alone would be worth sending 4000 or 4 guys ......

Sorry to sound non PC but this is pretty dumb considering the times & the reasons

Edited July 14, 2009 by flying

[LaoPo]

122 pages and more than 3.000 posts...

Is there someone around who can inform me what this thread is all about and tell me truthfully if someone learned something and gained from it ?

Meaning: did your income rise since the OP started this thread ?

Just a few words please, otherwise I will fall asleep.

LaoPo

[lannarebirth]

122 pages and more than 3.000 posts...

Is there someone around who can inform me what this thread is all about and tell me truthfully if someone learned something and gained from it ?

Meaning: did your income rise since the OP started this thread ?

Just a few words please, otherwise I will fall asleep.

LaoPo

China:

[LaoPo]

China:

Yes, I'm following the index and some of the companies in it.....it's like the mountains in Le Tour de France, isn't it ?

What's your view LRB ?..where are we going ?

LaoPo

[pete_r]

Some more thoughts on the crisis here:

http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/economics-a...-crisis-coming/

[cloudhopper]

China:

Yes, I'm following the index and some of the companies in it.....it's like the mountains in Le Tour de France, isn't it ?

What's your view LRB ?..where are we going ?

LaoPo

Here's one answer-

http://zerohedge.blogspot.com/2009/07/chin...r-critical.html

[Naam]

122 pages and more than 3.000 posts...

Is there someone around who can inform me what this thread is all about and tell me truthfully if someone learned something and gained from it ?

Meaning: did your income rise since the OP started this thread ?

Just a few words please, otherwise I will fall asleep.

LaoPo

i learned (not listed according to time or priorities):

-how to click on a youtube link,

-it's only a matter of time that a bakery can be bought by a single Krüger Rand,

-inflation will make my live miserable,

-deflation will make my live miserable too,

-the future global reserve currency will be the Rubmimbi Rupee-Real,

-millions of jobless and hungry Thais will be countrywide rioting and looting the property of Farangs,

-most banks should be shut down,

-politicians should be shot at sight,

-the Dollar, Pound, Euro and a bunch of other currencies will go either up or down,

-the crisis was intentionally and engineered by means of a global conspiracy,

to be continued...

[LaoPo]

122 pages and more than 3.000 posts...

Is there someone around who can inform me what this thread is all about and tell me truthfully if someone learned something and gained from it ?

Meaning: did your income rise since the OP started this thread ?

Just a few words please, otherwise I will fall asleep.

LaoPo

i learned (not listed according to time or priorities):

-how to click on a youtube link,

-it's only a matter of time that a bakery can be bought by a single Krüger Rand,

-inflation will make my live miserable,

-deflation will make my live miserable too,

-the future global reserve currency will be the Rubmimbi Rupee-Real,

-millions of jobless and hungry Thais will be countrywide rioting and looting the property of Farangs,

-most banks should be shut down,

-politicians should be shot at sight,

-the Dollar, Pound, Euro and a bunch of other currencies will go either up or down,

-the crisis was intentionally and engineered by means of a global conspiracy,

to be continued...

-by Bernie Madoff being the CEO...

But it was good news for him today that he will be released some 20 years sooner (for good behavior) than the 150 years he got; so he will be released in 2139* instead 2159.

* To be precise: His release date is November 12, 2139, 130 years and 4 months from now.

LaoPo

Edited July 14, 2009 by LaoPo

[Chaimai]

122 pages and more than 3.000 posts...

Is there someone around who can inform me what this thread is all about and tell me truthfully if someone learned something and gained from it ?

Meaning: did your income rise since the OP started this thread ?

Just a few words please, otherwise I will fall asleep.

LaoPo

i learned (not listed according to time or priorities):

-how to click on a youtube link,

-it's only a matter of time that a bakery can be bought by a single Krüger Rand,

-inflation will make my live miserable,

-deflation will make my live miserable too,

-the future global reserve currency will be the Rubmimbi Rupee-Real,

-millions of jobless and hungry Thais will be countrywide rioting and looting the property of Farangs,

-most banks should be shut down,

-politicians should be shot at sight,

-the Dollar, Pound, Euro and a bunch of other currencies will go either up or down,

-the crisis was intentionally and engineered by means of a global conspiracy,

to be continued...

-by Bernie Madoff being the CEO...

But it was good news for him today that he will be released some 20 years sooner (for good behavior) than the 150 years he got; so he will be released in 2139* instead 2159.

* To be precise: His release date is November 12, 2139, 130 years and 4 months from now.

LaoPo

The economy should have recovered by then.

[lannarebirth]

China:

Yes, I'm following the index and some of the companies in it.....it's like the mountains in Le Tour de France, isn't it ?

What's your view LRB ?..where are we going ?

LaoPo

That IS my view, which is soon to be an Intermediate term negative view, though it may turn out to be wrong as the LT chart is showing signs it may have turned up.

Edited July 15, 2009 by lannarebirth

[teletiger]

UK unemployment rose by a record 281,000 to 2.38 million in the three months to May, the Office for National Statistics has said.

“The increase in the unemployment total of 281,000 in the three months to May was the biggest quarterly rise since records of the ILO measure began in 1971.”

“Not only is unemployment rising, figures show that the number of jobs available has also fallen.

The number of vacancies dropped to a record low of 429,000 in the three months to June, down by 35,000 from the previous quarter.”

“Manufacturing jobs kept declining, down by 201,000 to a record low of 2.6 million.”

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8151017.stm

3 records in one article.

Good news? The market's up. Maybe some figure.....the worse the news, the closer the bottom.

Regards.

[midas]

China:

Yes, I'm following the index and some of the companies in it.....it's like the mountains in Le Tour de France, isn't it ?

What's your view LRB ?..where are we going ?

LaoPo

That IS my view, which is soon to be an Intermediate term negative view, though it may turn out to be wrong as the LT chart is showing signs it may have turned up.

Surely by now with such things as the revelation about the nature of the Goldman Sachs

trading programme, the artificial environment as to how banks can determine

the way their assets are valued and how markets seem so utterely divorced from economic

fundamentals......at the end of the day markets can now be engineered to

behave any way people want them to ?

[lannarebirth]

China:

Yes, I'm following the index and some of the companies in it.....it's like the mountains in Le Tour de France, isn't it ?

What's your view LRB ?..where are we going ?

LaoPo

That IS my view, which is soon to be an Intermediate term negative view, though it may turn out to be wrong as the LT chart is showing signs it may have turned up.

Surely by now with such things as the revelation about the nature of the Goldman Sachs

trading programme, the artificial environment as to how banks can determine

the way their assets are valued and how markets seem so utterely divorced from economic

fundamentals......at the end of the day markets can now be engineered to

behave any way people want them to ?

Well, none of those things are revelations to me. My general view is that when markets are being manipulated get on the side of the manipulators.

[Chaimai]

UK unemployment rose by a record 281,000 to 2.38 million in the three months to May, the Office for National Statistics has said.

In 1992 Unemployment in UK was 3 million

[teletiger]

UK unemployment rose by a record 281,000 to 2.38 million in the three months to May, the Office for National Statistics has said.

In 1992 Unemployment in UK was 3 million

The record was in the 3 month rise.

Regards.

[AlexLah]

If you want to go along with the manipulators you need to know how it is being done.

You cannot beat those super computers and the army of mathematicians they have.

You need to know what goes in, and how they calculate.

You know that Lana?