Financial Crisis

[AlexLah]

It is just 3-4 % of the population that went out so I don't think their government is scared yet. I think if 50% went to protest that would be much more effective.

[midas]

Very pleak, wanted to edit my post and got this.

OK again: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/4613223...-5.html?image=7

Part 5 is here.

Alex

This is amazing................I am sure you have noticed yourself

that real life and Blackjack both show the same reasons why

the USA army is so worried about a trend I have only learnt

last week is called " The Bubba Effect "

( are you familiar with this ? ) in Arizona, Texas etc..............................

In these places, militia groups are interpreting the US Constitution when it says

" the right to defend against tyranny " as the right to include " tyranny " by

government incompetence..............i.e.they now regard Obamas Administration

as incompetent raising taxes, bailing out banks,

socialism etc........ that is why all these States bordering

Mexico are fully gearing up for total pandemonium AND on top of this,

now you have thousands of Mexicans pouring over trying to escape the violence of

drug cartels -its a complete bloody mess

Edited February 22, 2009 by midas

[midas]

Midas - did you notice that it was a peaceful protest. There were no water canons, the streets were not lined with police or military and no one was killed. This was 120,000 people exercising their democratic right to express their frustration and discontent with their government. Even the word 'angry' was used - but this was anger contained by reasonable people who wanted to make their point in a reasonable, democratic and educated manner.

" one swallow doesn't make a summer " - only Chaimai can pick out one incident among so many

and infer - : there is no problem "

I feel very sorry they never taught you to play "join the dots" when you were a kid :D

Is France Due for Riots?

By Sudhir Venkatesh

However, France will not be spared the sword. I predict that the world will watch French cities light up in youth unrest in 2009, 2010 at the latest … 2011 for sure.

I have been traveling to the suburbs outside of Paris trying to understand the parallels between French marginality and U.S. urban poverty. (The “suburbs” or banlieues in France carry the opposite connotation as the U.S.: namely, predominantly nonwhite, poor, excluded from the general life of the wider society.)

I am struck at the resonances between the voices of young people in contemporary France and the cries of those who rebelled in U.S. inner cities in the 1960’s — arguably the last time we had nationwide un-civil unrest. French youth in the suburbs are mostly North African in origin — or from other parts of Francophone Africa. They are also mad as hel_l. Decades of poverty and social exclusion have created a growing cohort of teenagers and 20-somethings who feel no investment in their nation.

Guns, guns, guns. For the first time, I’ve heard young people in France say that guns are becoming more prevalent in their communities. Fait attention! Les gendarmes.

The last paragraph was to scaremonger be careful Chaimai ....... :: its getting closer to YOU

Edited February 22, 2009 by midas

[samuibeachcomber]

Just for the record, March 13-15.

I had another clue but was not sure what to make of it before, 7 ate 9, funny stuff once you see it.

what are you talking about AL? what about march 13-15?

what a question! everybody knows that on march 14 the umpteenth seal will break and these gentlemen will pay us a visit:

of course i forgot just so long as long as my bank ac.is n't sealed up!

[AlexLah]

Yep I have heard of " The Bubba Effect "

Well I guess we will see what will be played out in the coming months. But I don't think anything rosey.

I think tommorow will be an interesting day, a pitty I don't have sattelite tv here.

[12DrinkMore]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/finance...uly-global.html

In Florida, a state devastated by tumbling house prices and repossessions, the inhabitants are arming themselves against recession, with requests for concealed weapon permits up 42 per cent in the past 45 days.

[12DrinkMore]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment...stern-debt.html

But I have to admit that China, with its massive 1,400m population, isn't doing badly. Retail sales remain strong – up 17pc in real terms. Growth has slowed, but GDP still expanded by a pretty spectacular 6.8pc during the fourth quarter of last year.

Optimism in China has been boosted by the government's Rmb4,000bn (£405bn) support package. Unlike Japan and the cash-strapped Western nations, China is funding its fiscal stimulus using reserves, not extra borrowing.

But the ever-greater use of Asian savings to fund the "advanced" economies' deficits is unsustainable. And, as such, we're reaching the point where it will not be sustained. With Western governments intent on printing money and debauching their currencies, the big emerging market creditors – not only China, but Taiwan, Russia, South Korea and others – are now privately raising doubts about their future appetite for Western debt.

This demand drop-off will happen just as the West's dependence on such credit peaks. America and the UK are starting to issue sovereign paper like confetti, to fund highly-irresponsible "recovery programs".

So where is Brown going to raise his financing from? Certainly not from me, and probably not China.

Why does brown still manage to scoot around on the world's stage? He should surely rank as the world's biggest beggar.

[samuibeachcomber]

he certainly comes across as a fraud,as the article said the usa and uk have only one rabbit left to pull out of the bag and thats to print money.we are witnessing the terminal decline of both these coutries with i guess asian countries emerging stronger(a shift in the balance of power)interesting that china is able to finance its own rescue package.

[midas]

But the ever-greater use of Asian savings to fund the "advanced" economies' deficits is unsustainable. And, as such, we're reaching the point where it will not be sustained. With Western governments intent on printing money and debauching their currencies, the big emerging market creditors – not only China, but Taiwan, Russia, South Korea and others – are now privately raising doubts about their future appetite for Western debt.

This demand drop-off will happen just as the West's dependence on such credit peaks. America and the UK are starting to issue sovereign paper like confetti, to fund highly-irresponsible "recovery programs".

12, I know China has adequate reserves but like everywhere else don't forget the problem is potential social unrest.

China needed 8 to 10 percent growth just to maintain its standards That can't be achieved from

Keynesian style stimulus package on infrastructure-or at least not gor ever.

How many workers will it take to return to the provinces before they start to lose their cool?

They will never generate anywhere near the same level of demand from domestic consumption simply because

it's against their personal values to be compulsive consumers - they are prolific savers. Without demand from the West, where

will demand for its goods and services come from?

[Chaimai]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/finance...uly-global.html

In Florida, a state devastated by tumbling house prices and repossessions, the inhabitants are arming themselves against recession, with requests for concealed weapon permits up 42 per cent in the past 45 days.

What a pity you chose to select one sensationalist paragraph from that article. 12D - you are British, how many firearms applications do you think there will have been in the UK. Absolutely no disrespect to the Americans but they can watch War of the Worlds and then go out and tool up for an armed invasion.

The overall article was quite informative - but contradicts other posts about Chinese spending.

Edited February 22, 2009 by Chaimai

[Chaimai]

The last paragraph was to scaremonger be careful Chaimai ....... :: its getting closer to YOU

I'm watching, I'm watching

[12DrinkMore]

12, I know China has adequate reserves but like everywhere else don't forget the problem is potential social unrest.

China needed 8 to 10 percent growth just to maintain its standards That can't be achieved from

Keynesian style stimulus package on infrastructure-or at least not gor ever.

How many workers will it take to return to the provinces before they start to lose their cool?

They will never generate anywhere near the same level of demand from domestic consumption simply because

it's against their personal values to be compulsive consumers - they are prolific savers. Without demand from the West, where

will demand for its goods and services come from?

I think that the Chinese could be easily stimulated to consume Chinese products. We had the "American Dream" I am sure that the Chinese government, in order to keep things going, could fire up a "Chinese Dream". They have the production facilities and the workers. They have the money. They could do exactly what the Western countries did after the second world war. Don't forget that China did not really start going until maybe 15 years ago, and over this short time they have amassed an incredible amount of assets.

Surely supplying a little personal credit to keep things rolling in China is an issue much much smaller than trying to prop up the failures in Western countries? I remain convinced that over the next few years we will see the Asian markets making huge strides in progress, whilst the West languishes in a long long depression. Why?

- China has the money

- China has the production facilities

- China has the skilled workers

- China is educating a huge number of graduates

- the Chinese go for the long term success

- and above all China has a HUGE HUGE undeveloped market of consumers just waiting to work away to buy that Chinese made flat screen TV. Even if they don't know it yet.....

And you don't believe me? Just watch and see it happen.

Edited February 22, 2009 by 12DrinkMore

[AlexLah]

I had a drink yesterday with former co worker and I asked him about the sales (foreign imported products) in China and he said they were just a litlle lower than last year, so indeed it seems China for the moment is not too bad. Thailand was also a litlle lower sales compared to last year, a little bit more than China

but nowhere near doublle digit's.

[AlexLah]

Sorry it is 13-16.

[AlexLah]

Ha ha ha!

Stinking cans of Tuna, I wonder how many will be opened.

[midas]

I think that the Chinese could be easily stimulated to consume Chinese products. We had the "American Dream" I am sure that the Chinese government, in order to keep things going, could fire up a "Chinese Dream". They have the production facilities and the workers. They have the money. They could do exactly what the Western countries did after the second world war. Don't forget that China did not really start going until maybe 15 years ago, and over this short time they have amassed an incredible amount of assets.

Surely supplying a little personal credit to keep things rolling in China is an issue much much smaller than trying to prop up the failures in Western countries? I remain convinced that over the next few years we will see the Asian markets making huge strides in progress, whilst the West languishes in a long long depression. Why?

- China has the money

- China has the production facilities

- China has the skilled workers

- China is educating a huge number of graduates

- the Chinese go for the long term success

- and above all China has a HUGE HUGE undeveloped market of consumers just waiting to work away to buy that Chinese made flat screen TV. Even if they don't know it yet.....

And you don't believe me? Just watch and see it happen.

I do not dispute your optimistic view of the Chinese economy compared to the West because the older generation already

experienced what it was like to have nothing in vast contrast to the Western countries. So

what they have already achieved compared to what they once had under Chairman Mao would represent considerable success.

And it's true the younger generation are energetic, well-educated and ambitious. But have placed an enormous faith in the Communist Party

to be able to continue to deliver a sustainable economic model that will allow them to reach their goals.

BBC World gave another account only this morning about the growing problems of unemployment in China saying there is a

mismatch between jobs being offered and the skills that workers have.

I agree with you China could and should be the next economic superpower because the determination and positive attitude of the ordinary

citizen there is a real inspiration to the rest of the world.

I'm only saying don't underestimate the importance of the ruling party needing to continue to keep the country

together in one piece. The biggest danger in the North if people lose their belief in the Communist Party

is is devolution into a number of smaller provinces which

undoubtedly would affect the psychology and the economic performance of China as we know it today.

[AlexLah]

I just read this, ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

Obama the great magic master is going to pull out billions and trillions of toilet paper from an empty hat.

Good luck!

[midas]

The last paragraph was to scaremonger be careful Chaimai ....... :: its getting closer to YOU

I'm watching, I'm watching

Chaimai

No need for you to " watch " any longer - because some people know already when it's coming..........................

And Chaimai -notice they use the words " middle-class " no mention about the impoverished " class " that you described?

Britain faces summer of rage - police

Middle-class anger at economic crisis could erupt into violence on streets

Britain's most senior police officer with responsibility for public order raised the spectre of a return of the riots of the 1980s, with people who have lost their jobs, homes or savings becoming "footsoldiers" in a wave of potentially violent mass protests. Superintendent David Hartshorn, who heads the Metropolitan police's public order branch, told the Guardian that middle-class individuals who would never have considered joining demonstrations may now seek to vent their anger through protests this year.

Hartshorn, who receives regular intelligence briefings on potential causes of civil unrest, said the mood at some demonstrations had changed recently, with activists increasingly "intent on coming on to the streets to create public disorder".

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/feb/23/p...nrest-recession

Edited February 23, 2009 by midas

[samuibeachcomber]

dont believe it,the british are incapable of this(too much effort)now the french,thats different!

[samuibeachcomber]

I just read this, ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

Obama the great magic master is going to pull out billions and trillions of toilet paper from an empty hat.

Good luck!

why is it that politicians are so good at reacting(the media have been going on for weeks about how scary this massive bailout has become)but so lacking in vision.

[midas]

dont believe it,the british are incapable of this(too much effort)now the french,thats different!

sacrebleu

I hope no one relies on that assumption alone

[lannarebirth]

dont believe it,the british are incapable of this(too much effort)now the french,thats different!

Summer of Rage? Are they taking the "footy" and the soaps off the telly?

Edited February 23, 2009 by lannarebirth

[samuibeachcomber]

dont believe it,the british are incapable of this(too much effort)now the french,thats different!

sacrebleu

I hope no one relies on that assumption alone

well the masses have their beer and footie,the middle class are just too nice to do that sort of thing.BNP might do it i suppose.as for the french(1789)and again in 1968.If you want a good revolution the french know how to do it.

[LivinLOS]

Up to 120,000 people march in national protest

Up to 120,000 people have marched in Dublin in protest at how the Government is handling the economic crisis. The march, which was organised by the Irish Congress of Trade Unions (Ictu), took nearly one and a half hours to make its way from Parnell Square to Merrion Square.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaki...1/breaking3.htm

Midas - did you notice that it was a peaceful protest. There were no water canons, the streets were not lined with police or military and no one was killed. This was 120,000 people exercising their democratic right to express their frustration and discontent with their government. Even the word 'angry' was used - but this was anger contained by reasonable people who wanted to make their point in a reasonable, democratic and educated manner.

Civil disturbances generally start off fairly, well, civil !!

[quiksilva]

Trafalgar Square 1990

[midas]

Midas - did you notice that it was a peaceful protest. There were no water canons, the streets were not lined with police or military and no one was killed. This was 120,000 people exercising their democratic right to express their frustration and discontent with their government. Even the word 'angry' was used - but this was anger contained by reasonable people who wanted to make their point in a reasonable, democratic and educated manner.

Civil disturbances generally start off fairly, well, civil !!

Yes indeed but they may not be able to stay " civil " for long during the heat of the summer months in unair-conditioned Britain

[Chaimai]

No need for you to " watch " any longer - because some people know already when it's coming..........................

And Chaimai -notice they use the words " middle-class " no mention about the impoverished " class " that you described?

Britain faces summer of rage - police

Middle-class anger at economic crisis could erupt into violence on streets

Dear, Oh Dear Midas. You reallyshould start taking the Dandy or Beano for your entertainment

Just because one police officer raises the spectre of demonstrations you think you have found your uprising. There will NOT be blood on the streets ! I am sure that we will see some protests, I am sure that some antagonists will seize the opportunity to create flash points BUT there will not be widespread civil unrest. Remember that the miner's strike referred to was localised and the Wapping protests were localised to err, Wapping.

In the picture that accompanied the Guardian article did you notice just how many white collar workers were on the street

[samuibeachcomber]

Trafalgar Square 1990

looks more like a construction site on fire with a lot of standers by.If its not please tell me what was going on am interested.

[samuibeachcomber]

dont believe it,the british are incapable of this(too much effort)now the french,thats different!

Summer of Rage? Are they taking the "footy" and the soaps off the telly?

now that would do it plus turning the beer taps off

[12DrinkMore]

looks more like a construction site on fire with a lot of standers by.If its not please tell me what was going on am interested.

200,000 demonstrators against the Poll Tax. 5,000 were injured and Thatcher was kicked out a few months later.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poll_Tax_Riots