Financial Crisis

[12DrinkMore]

Here is a week old paper by UBS on the consequences of a Euro break-up.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/64020390/xrm45126

[churchill]

It looks like France and Germany vs Markets ---

"Euro Death Wish" and Global Finger-Pointing: U.S. Senior Official Blames Eurozone for "75% of the Dark Things Happening in the World"

http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/

markets winning ..

Greece won't give up the Euro so it is down to Germany to start printing DM

[churchill]

Germany and Greece flirt with mutual assured destruction

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/8755881/Germany-and-Greece-flirt-with-mutual-assured-destruction.html

[flying]

What ever became of those green shoots?

A key warning signal of global financial stress has shot above the extreme levels seen at the height of the Lehman crisis in 2008.

Central bank flight to Federal Reserve safety tops Lehman crisis

Edited September 12, 2011 by flying

[Naam]

Germany and Greece flirt with mutual assured destruction

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/8755881/Germany-and-Greece-flirt-with-mutual-assured-destruction.html

Telegraph publishes lukewarm farts, Irish freedom fighters invade and destroy United Kingdom.

[flying]

Hey lookee there !

30 THB to 1 USD

[BlackJack]

emotions aside with the 9/11 issue.

You need to look at the facts that the USA has become a lazy hamstrung PC correct melting pot of misfits.

This epiphany came to me whilst watching the Hollywood news coverage of the 10 year anniversary of the tragic events of 9/11.

In 10 years the only thing they'd managed to build was a couple of fountains at the ground zero site. 10 years of wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and what has been achieved. The drug trade is still going. The suicide bombs are more than ever. More than 40% of the ground troops are on meds to keep them going.

10 years in Asia or CHina they could've built an entire city.

I think this is proof that the USA is not what it once was and that it has become a country of Walmartians that are being led around by their nose rings.

Manufacturing, full employment, democracy, a sense of fair play - all lost now for the USA and soon we will see the loss of their status of the World currency - simply because they dont deserve it any more.

GFC 2 is guaranteed now. QE3 has happened but lets tell the sheeple that its something else.

Given the above South EAst asia will overtake the USA within a decade.

Look around - its happening now.

Now back to my sea view and coffee

[JimGant]

Now back to my sea view and coffee

And which Greek island might that be, Zorba?

[flying]

the USA a country of Walmartians

I love that Walmartians

I shortened it thinking it would make a good T-shirt

[Jingthing]

More evidence that AUSTERITY NOW, the tea party religion based on dogma rather than reason, is a very, very bad way go.

In a new paper for the International Monetary Fund, Laurence Ball, Daniel Leigh and Prakash Lounani look at 173 episodes of fiscal austerity over the past 30 years—with the average deficit cut amounting to 1 percent of GDP. Their verdict? Austerity “lowers incomes in the short term, with wage-earners taking more of a hit than others; it also raises unemployment, particularly long-term unemployment.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/imf-austerity-boosts-unemployment-lowers-paychecks/2011/09/12/gIQAl5ebPK_blog.html

A related link about republican style, depression causing, voodoo economics --

They reject as thoroughly discredited all of Keynesian economics, including the efficacy of fiscal stimulus, preferring the budget-balancing economic policies that turned the 1929 stock market crash into the Great Depression.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/the-magical-world-of-voodoo-economists/2011/09/07/gIQARBiEIK_story.html

Edited September 13, 2011 by Jingthing

[flying]

More evidence that AUSTERITY NOW, the tea party religion based on dogma rather than reason,is a very, very bad way go.

Oh that's rich

The dogmatic pot calling kettle black.

Yes Austerity bad.....keep digging the hole your in deeper.... That is The Solution!

Screw living within your means....spend baby spend...Let the futures kids suffer instead...

We have ours...Let them eat cake!..."Qu'ils mangent de la brioche"

BTW: my guess is you have no kids eh?

[gregb]

More evidence that AUSTERITY NOW, the tea party religion based on dogma rather than reason,is a very, very bad way go.

Oh that's rich

The dogmatic pot calling kettle black.

Yes Austerity bad.....keep digging the hole your in deeper.... That is The Solution!

Screw living within your means....spend baby spend...Let the futures kids suffer instead...

We have ours...Let them eat cake!..."Qu'ils mangent de la brioche"

BTW: my guess is you have no kids eh?

Personally I find the argument between the libertarians and the socialists amusing. The simple fact is that there is nothing anyone can do to prevent the coming implosion. The only difference between austerity and printing money is who winds up broke and who ends up solvent. With austerity, the middle class who saved comes out on top. With printing, the banks are saved from insolvency. But either way the economy is destroyed because the current economy needs economic growth for survival. And that isn't going to happen under any scenario.

So print or don't print, cut taxes or don't, cut entitlements or don't. It's all totally irrelevant. It will change the method of collapse, but not the reality of collapse itself. I'm sure the government still has some rabbits in their hat and that the existing system will stay up longer than I can imagine possible, but it will come down because it is mathematically impossible for it to survive at this point. Resource and energy depletion guarantees it. If this wasn't the case we'd still be speaking ancient Egyption, or at least Latin.

My vote is for whatever method crashes the existing system the fastest. That way, consumption is cut quickly and we save the most for our children.

[JimGant]

Yes Austerity bad.....keep digging the hole your in deeper.... That is The Solution!

So, you part with the tea party jerks and endorse fiddlin' with the tax code to increase taxes? Of course you do, otherwise you're a hypocrite when you shout "austerity now!"

My vote is for whatever method crashes the existing system the fastest.

That, of course, would be the "austerity now" approach. Which means there is absolutely no chance of 'kick starting' this economy back to a position where we can do something meaningful about the deficits.

[flying]

Yes Austerity bad.....keep digging the hole your in deeper.... That is The Solution!

So, you part with the tea party jerks and endorse fiddlin' with the tax code to increase taxes? Of course you do, otherwise you're a hypocrite when you shout "austerity now!"

Still stuck in the party line rhetoric eh Jim?

When you can think outside that box maybe we can talk.

Edited September 14, 2011 by flying

[JimGant]

Still stuck in the party line rhetoric eh Jim?

When you can think outside that box maybe we can talk.

I've forgotten your exact position, and don't have the gumption to revisit your inputs here. Could you please summarize which box you're outside of? Definitely the Keynesian one. What about the Austrian one?

Seriously, what do you stand for? If not in one camp, which pieces from which camps define you?

[gregb]

Yes Austerity bad.....keep digging the hole your in deeper.... That is The Solution!

So, you part with the tea party jerks and endorse fiddlin' with the tax code to increase taxes? Of course you do, otherwise you're a hypocrite when you shout "austerity now!"

My vote is for whatever method crashes the existing system the fastest.

That, of course, would be the "austerity now" approach. Which means there is absolutely no chance of 'kick starting' this economy back to a position where we can do something meaningful about the deficits.

Thanks. Austerity it is then. Sounds like a reasonable plan. Who should I vote for to get the most austerity? I want someone really austere. I want someone so austere that my face puckers up just looking at them.

[JimGant]

Who should I vote for to get the most austerity?

Why, Rick Perry, of course. You'll even get a healthy dose of Christian Fundamentalism thrown in for free.

Yeah, when it comes to having a grip on reality, Rick's your guy.

[flying]

I've forgotten your exact position, and don't have the gumption to revisit your inputs here.

And yet you make posts like this?

So, you part with the tea party jerks and endorse fiddlin' with the tax code to increase taxes? Of course you do, otherwise you're a hypocrite when you shout "austerity now!"

Your laziness or lack of gumption as you like to put it matches your political rhetoric.

Study on your own Or continue to make mindless comments your choice.

[JimGant]

flying, just one quick question....

Are you for or against raising taxes?

(just trying to see if politics or economics is your driving force)

[flying]

flying, just one quick question....

Are you for or against raising taxes?

(just trying to see if politics or economics is your driving force)

I am not only not for raising taxes I am also for doing away with income taxes

For the record

This is the financial crisis thread.

[JimGant]

I am not only not for raising taxes I am also for doing away with income taxes

Ok, so it's politics, not economics -- since keeping taxes the same, or lowering taxes, or doing away with taxes -- is pure stimulus, not austerity. And it's austerity you've been advocating.

For the record

This is the financial crisis thread.

Uh, in case you haven't noticed, the "financial crisis" involves the very-real possibility of a double-dip recession -- which may be avoided, or exacerbated -- by exactly how and when we address the deficit problem. The deficit is just a contributor to the financial crisis. But just how big a contributor, and whether or not it can be addressed later, in favor of more stimulus now, is the question no one seems to have a definitive answer for.

Still stuck in the party line rhetoric eh Jim?

Your position of austerity and cutting income taxes seems to have distinctive party ring to it...

Anything about Simpson/Bowles that you like?

[flying]

The deficit is just a contributor to the financial crisis. But just how big a contributor, and whether or not it can be addressed later, in favor of more stimulus now, is the question no one seems to have a definitive answer for.

The deficit & the reactions to it are more than just a contributor.

Whether or not it can be addressed *later* yet again is short sightedness.

As for stimulus....it is a misnomer

you do not create jobs with stimulus....Obviously....

Look at how much *stimulus* has been thrown at it & created *real* jobs... zero.

Stimulus & Bailouts is just a nice way of saying legal plunder

Even the new jobs plan is more of the same. How can you create jobs with stimulus? More borrowing through more

printing/digitizing/debt creation?

All you have done is made a loan with that which you never had. It is not real job creation.

It is more of the same...debt creation.

The things you say make it sound like your against sound money, sound job creation etc & against raising taxes.

Yet when you suggest stimulus you are in fact suggesting raising taxes. Because loans need to be repaid.

The government is just too big period. They are like a girls gone wild video & out of control.

Just last week another 500 billion quietly removed...

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2011/09/08/senate-approves-500-billion-increase-in-borrowing-authority/?mod=google_news_blog

Why?

Because the debt ceiling is once again breached. SO how long did the 1st drop last?

How long do you think this drop will last?

I am looking forward to the tripwire due to go off in November if I remember right.

There is no way the super committee will find over a trillion in cuts. So the tripwire will do it for them. So called...Defense spending included.

Not that even cutting 1.2 trillion over the next 10 years matters. Because just look at last year & this year alone.

Now extend that 10 years forward. Does 1.2 Trillion so much as nick the surface?

Like it or not we are in a controlled crash....for now.

That is not to suggest a soft landing is in any way guaranteed

Edited September 14, 2011 by flying

[Jingthing]

BTW: my guess is you have no kids eh?

If I did I wouldn't want to entrust them to the tea party!

[flying]

BTW: my guess is you have no kids eh?

If I did I wouldn't want to entrust them to the tea party!

Redundant because those that came before have long since thrown the babies out with the

bathwater.

I do not claim the tea party that the media calls the tea party is the true concept but

at the same time I find your blame aimed at 74 freshmen out of 435 members laughable.

The few that came just recently are to be blamed for what already existed?

Yes continue the hunt for your scapegoat

Edited September 14, 2011 by flying

[flying]

Classic example & current.

Obama-backed energy firm goes bankrupt, even with stimulus

500+ million dollars given..... future taxpayers money of course since they have none of their own to give....

As always the usual skulduggery ...emails etc. uncovered.. rushing the stimulus approval process to 9 days instead of the usual 28 days ...so Joe Biden could give the feel good speech....even though they were told the business model showed this company would fail by Sept 2011

BTW.......what is today date?

In the end 1100 jobs lost & the 500+ million in taxpayers dollars

FBI has gone in & seized records.

Now who will investigate this? Eric Holders Justice Department???

Edited September 15, 2011 by flying

[JimGant]

I am not only not for raising taxes I am also for doing away with income taxes

Kinda hard to have a decent discussion involving the deficit with that kind of wacko position.

[flying]

I am not only not for raising taxes I am also for doing away with income taxes

Kinda hard to have a decent discussion involving the deficit with that kind of wacko position.

mmmm no problem....

because it makes no sense to you does not make it nonsense...... except to you.

But yes carry on. It is easier to cheer-lead existing positions that brought us this current mess than to think beyond party rhetoric.

Edited September 15, 2011 by flying

[Naam]

why not elaborate on the fact that the financial crisis was caused by the Afghan Emperor Sad-Dàmn Hussein who invaded Greece with his ill buddy Kim Jungle where they installed intercontinental ballistic missiles with warheads containing BigMacs, Whoppers and McDöners?

[serenitynow]

I am not only not for raising taxes I am also for doing away with income taxes

Ok, so it's politics, not economics -- since keeping taxes the same, or lowering taxes, or doing away with taxes -- is pure stimulus, not austerity. And it's austerity you've been advocating.

For the record

This is the financial crisis thread.

Uh, in case you haven't noticed, the "financial crisis" involves the very-real possibility of a double-dip recession -- which may be avoided, or exacerbated -- by exactly how and when we address the deficit problem. The deficit is just a contributor to the financial crisis. But just how big a contributor, and whether or not it can be addressed later, in favor of more stimulus now, is the question no one seems to have a definitive answer for.

Still stuck in the party line rhetoric eh Jim?

Your position of austerity and cutting income taxes seems to have distinctive party ring to it...

Anything about Simpson/Bowles that you like?

I have to laugh at you policy wonks. One doesn't need to be a sophisticated political scientist to see what the problem / solution is. The problem is DEBT! The solution is either paying down or cancelling that debt. It's that simple.

[Naam]

I have to laugh at you policy wonks. One doesn't need to be a sophisticated political scientist to see what the problem / solution is. The problem is DEBT! The solution is either paying down or cancelling that debt. It's that simple.

let's cancel the debt now!