Financial Crisis

[mccw]

By leap in technology I mean truly revolutionary like bountiful cheap clean power, fission reactors or magnetical turbines or some such.

[NeverSure]

The only things I don't buy in my portfolio as a bet for yield/profit are PM's. I buy them as a hedge against a crash of fiat money. That crash has already happened in my adulthood and I have no idea how much worse it could get. Case in point:

In 1965 every US dollar was backed by gold. Gold was $35 an ounce, giving some indication of what a dollar was worth then. As further example I could buy a gallon of gasoline for less than thirty cents. More than 3 gallons for $1. Today it takes $4 of those dollars to buy a gallon of gas. You could buy a really nice new home for $20,000 US or a new small Toyota or Datsun (now Nissan) or Volkswagen beetle for $2,000.

In 1969 President Johnson and congress passed the "Great Society" legislation which ushered in food stamps, housing assistance, free medical for the poor...

By 1972 the US was running out of income to pay for these new "entitlements" so President Nixon took us off the gold standard so the Federal Reserve could print dollars beyond the amount of gold the US owned and pay the bills.

By 1980 inflation was running at 16%, and the interest rate was 21% for a home mortgage. No one wanted to lend money long term when it was losing value so fast.

That same new home just 15 years later was now $45,000, the gas was $1 per gallon and a new small Toyota or Datsun was $6,000.

Now, it that wasn't a crash in the value of a dollar, I don't know what would be. The US entered a severe recession from which it "recovered" but it never recovered the value of the dollar, even though many praise Reagan for a recovery.

In fact, with gold at $35 an ounce in 1972, and $1,7000 an ounce today, it speaks to the value of what a dollar will buy today in a big way. Nothing has improved since 1980. Even with our recession and housing market crash, that $20,000 home from 1965 will be bought at the bargain price of $200,000 today in the average towns. Much more in, say, San Francisco or Silicon Valley, etc. That Toyota will cost you $18,000 and that gas $4.

This is all about the value of the dollar and absolutely nothing else.

Gold? I buy it to hedge against a crash, even if that crash is just more of the same inflation we've already had. An ounce of gold will still buy today what it would 40 years ago. What do I care if during a real crash and depression my gold goes back down to $300 or some arbitrary amount? It's still an ounce of gold which I can hold long term and not worry about.

In the worst of times, could I easily sell it, eat it or wipe my butt with it? Who cares? I'm thinking of when we come out the other side of the crash, will I have anything left? Will all of my stocks and my dollars have disintegrated? Will there be nothing? My gold will never be nothing.

Edited December 9, 2012 by NeverSure

[Naam]

what more proof do we need

only ignorants believe the lies of the Irish president. imprisoned were not the "banksters" but their creditors. and as far as the "bail-out" of the "people" is concerned a brief look at the unemployment rate shows the facts:

Irish unemployment 2007= 4.0%

Irish unemployment today=14.7% (+267.5%)

summary:

-talk is cheap.

-accepting cheap talk without verifiying its content is lazyness.

Looks like you are mixing up islands- He was talking about Iceland, not Ireland

oops!

here we go again

Iceland unemployment 2007 = 1.0%

Iceland unemployment 2012 = 5.2% (+420%)

in 2007 one US-Dollar bought ISK 59

today one US-Dollar buys.......ISK 126 (currency loss 52%)

any other island which protected "banksters", cheated creditors by nearly 100% and more than halved the value of the savings of its citizens?

so where's the big difference between Ireland and Iceland?

summary still valid: Mr Midas posting irrelevant rubbish, homework not done!

Edited December 9, 2012 by Naam

[mccw]

5% unemployment is way better than 14+ % in any ones book. 5 is a reasonably normal level in good years and compares to current German 4%. The 1% starting block was just a measure of how exceptional an economy it was before.

Iceland interest rate is over 5%:

http://www.worldinterestrates.info/countries/iceland.php

With compound interest = doubled money in 7 years

But they can buy; Half as many yanky dollars- do they give a monkeys?

That does not mean thier money is half the value!

Although:

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/iceland/inflation-cpi

It's still a much better rate for savers than the negative real returns in all of the bailed out banker run economies and shows they are attempting to build economy on capital and sustainability rather than trying to reinflate/ further inflate a gaint debt bubble.

Diagnosis= putting citizens before private banking elite. (Big thumbs up icon if I had one)

Edited December 9, 2012 by mccw

[Naam]

mccw,

your economic knowledge is supreme. i bow to your wisdom and the wisdom of people who discuss in a thread that deals with the global financial crisis an economically insignificant island who's number of inhabitants are less than those in one of London's bigger suburbs.

on a lighter side... your maths has "tiny" flaws:

With compound interest = doubled money in 7 years

5% compounded interest does not result in doubling the capital in 7 years. it takes more than double, namely 15 years and 2½ months to double the capital.

summary: it takes another 12 years till Icelanders can afford imported items spending the same amount of domestic currency they spent before 2008. that is of course only if inflation on these imported items remains at 0 percent. but then we all know, there is no inflation now and there won't be inflation in 12 years.

next joke interesting facts please!

[mccw]

Further comment on Iceland- it is quite a special case because of its geothermal energy; perhapse better insulated from effects of default than perhapse Greece or Ireland would be.

However; I think the duty of all governments should be to build the nation up to be self sufficient in energy, food and water as its chief priority. So effectively insulating the populas from the winds of globalised economic mayhem and essentially security in the face of a debt gun held at you or supply chain problems out of ones control, such as war in Middle East etc.

that and building gold and silver reserves with any trading surplus so as to have capital free from counter party risk and tradable in case of climate related disasters at home or other eventuality.

Balanced books being essential with welfare taking a secondary potitoion to the above mentioned priorities.

[mccw]

7years- oops . Or was it 14.4?

http://m.lifehacker.com/5796032/quickly-estimate-how-long-it-will-take-to-double-your-money

The debt effect is stark.

I agree Iceland is a very small country and perhapse easier to manage but at least they have balls and a functioning democracy, wich is more than can be said about half of the eurozone.

Edited December 10, 2012 by mccw

[midas]

5% unemployment is way better than 14+ % in any ones book. 5 is a reasonably normal level in good years and compares to current German 4%. The 1% starting block was just a measure of how exceptional an economy it was before.

Iceland interest rate is over 5%:

http://www.worldinte...ies/iceland.php

With compound interest = doubled money in 7 years

But they can buy; Half as many yanky dollars- do they give a monkeys?

That does not mean thier money is half the value!

Although:

http://www.tradingec...d/inflation-cpi

It's still a much better rate for savers than the negative real returns in all of the bailed out banker run economies and shows they are attempting to build economy on capital and sustainability rather than trying to reinflate/ further inflate a gaint debt bubble.

Diagnosis= putting citizens before private banking elite. (Big thumbs up icon if I had one)

Diagnosis= putting citizens before private banking elite. (Big thumbs up icon if I had one)

The Icelandic government says something, and does it. The EU, the US ( and even Japan )

governments say one thing and do another.

the Icelandic Government fears it's public. the EU and US government don't.

Edited December 10, 2012 by midas

[midas]

The reporter says “ large prison populations and harsher prison sentences result in greater profits “ – for the banksters

[Naam]

Diagnosis= putting citizens before private banking elite. (Big thumbs up icon if I had one)

you still don't get it! the banksters were protected, the creditors were (initially) screwed. only when UK and the Netherlands intervened most, but not all, of the foreign creditors got finally ~80% of their money.

moreover:

Iceland was bailed out by the International Monetary Fund (IMF) and its Nordic neighbours when its banking system collapsed in 2008.

and this bail-out money plus interest is paid back by the tax Kronar of Iceland's citizens, in a currency that buys today less than half of the required Dollars!

Iceland Gets $11 Billion Bailout, but Will be Saddled with Debt for Years to Come

http://moneymorning....celand-bailout/

for a country with 319,000 citizens that's $34,483 per capita including babies and old pensioners just for this bridge loan not included existing former public debt. total public debt is 128.6% of GDP (2011 est.)

only 6 countries have are higher indebted (with Zimbabwe leading).

now do your homework Midas and stop shooting your feet with a machine gun!

and that applies to the other experts too who think

at least they have balls

but balls cannot be used to service debt.

no more yakety-yak, only facts and correct percentage calculations... pretty please!

[cheeryble]

but balls cannot be used to service debt.

dam_n there goes the last resort plan to sell (high quality) Cheeryble sperm when the end happens.....

[cheeryble]

i'm afraid the can kicking will go on for years to come.

The funny thing is that historically hidden improvements in efficiency and other engines of "growth" will gradually kick in.

What really needs dealing with will be dealt with, and one day, suddenly, sentiment will have changed.

With the energy in out picture in the resource picture as it is I think the only thing to bring growing living standard would be a leap in technology. Just a change in sentiment under present day parameters would soon be killed by massive inflation due on one front to all the money sloshing around but more critically due to the cost of getting at the remaining resources and the demands from size of the populations now after them . 9bl people by 2050 i think it was projected.

Always like to hear another side whys or whys nots though

You obviously haven't read "Abundance"

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203646004577213203698503484.html

And here's a more detailed optimistic firecast I bought which I now give you free

http://www.thelightsinthetunnel.com/

BTW I believe you were complaining about no action on the banks:

FINANCIAL TIMES Breaking news

Monday December 10 2012

Breaking News

US and UK unveil failing banks plan

US and UK regulators will unveil the first cross-border plans to deal with failing global banks on Monday, outlining proposals to force shareholders and creditors on both sides of the Atlantic to take losses and to ensure sufficient capital exists in the banks headquarters to protect taxpayers.

Writing in the Financial Times, Martin Gruenberg, chairman of the US Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation, and Paul Tucker, deputy governor of the Bank of England, say this represents the first concrete steps to end the too big to fail problem of large international banks.

http://link.ft.com/r/TWK799/MJRUF7/EW1CWC/NJ59VK/JQNYNJ/UP/h?a1=2012&a2=12&a3=9

Edited December 10, 2012 by cheeryble

[cheeryble]

Here's one in the eye for perpetual critics of banks not being forced into responsibility. Perhaps they spent some time actually working out the detail:

December 10, 2012 12:09 am

US and UK unveil failing banks plan

By Brooke Masters and Chris Giles

Bloomberg

US and UK regulators will unveil the first cross-border plans to deal with failing global banks on Monday, outlining proposals to force shareholders and creditors on both sides of the Atlantic to take losses and to ensure sufficient capital exists in the banks headquarters to protect taxpayers.

Writing in the Financial Times, Martin Gruenberg, chairman of the US Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation, and Paul Tucker, deputy governor of the Bank of England, say this represents the first concrete steps to end the too big to fail problem of large international banks.

With Mr Tucker leading international efforts to devise emergency resolution plans, the US-UK template for their 12 large international banks will be a template for the 16 systemically important banks (G-Sifis) based in other countries.

All countries share a very strong public interest in developing the capacity to resolve global systemically important financial institutions in a credible and effective way, the two bank regulators write.

The strategy paper says shareholders should expect to be wiped out and unsecured bondholders can expect that their claims would be written down to reflect any losses that shareholders cannot cover, which did not happen when the US and UK had to prop up their international banks in the 2008 crisis.

Senior management would be removed, but critical business functions would continue and healthy operating subsidiaries, both foreign and domestic, would be allowed to keep operating, limiting the damage to the broader economy, the regulators write.

The intervention would occur at the top-tier holding company level of the international banks. By addressing the problem at the top of international banks, the strategy document says it avoids separate territorial and entity-focused insolvency proceedings as happened in the Lehman Brothers bankruptcy.

The document states that since big US and UK banks do not currently hold sufficient debt and equity at the top of their group holding structures, regulators will need to take steps to address that.

US regulators will consider forcing the largest banks to hold sufficient debt at that level, while in the UK, the British authorities would offer the largest banks the choice between restructuring so that more debt is issued out of the holding company or having rules put in place to impose losses on debt held in the top operating companies of each group.

We believe that, for many GSifis, this strategy holds the best possibility of preserving stability while removing taxpayer support. It holds shareholders, creditors and management in a failed GSifi accountable for its losses, Mr Tucker and Mr Gruenberg write.

Other countries are also working on living wills for their biggest banks, but the Financial Stability Board, which is co-ordinating the effort, recently extended the deadline into next year because many of the plans are not complete.

Regulators are feeling they want to get their arms around these global structures, said Barney Reynolds, a partner at the international law firm Shearman & Sterling.

Edited December 10, 2012 by cheeryble

[midas]

but balls cannot be used to service debt.

dam_n there goes the last resort plan to sell (high quality) Cheeryble sperm when the end happens.....

I really have no idea what you are ranting and raving about Naam.

The purpose of me posting that picture with the Icelandic President was as the statement correctly said , they correctly jailed the banksters?

Is today one of those days for you to inadvertently support the banksters again ? Does it depend on which side of the bed you get out of as to which viewpoint you take on a particular day?

In America the likes of Jon Corzine doesn't even get indicted and yet as explained in that video post about private prisons,

the banksters like Goldman Sucks who have shares in private prisons desperately want to keep them at full occupancy.

So what do they do? Last week in England they jailed a woman for one year because she downloaded a digital version of an Al Qaeda magazine onto her mobile phone. Incidentally at the same time the Washington Times reports America is surreptitiously arming this same group in Syria? Are they an enemy or not ?

I certainly don't see any justice or fairness in what has happened to this woman when compared to Jon Corzine et al..

[cheeryble]

Last week in England they jailed a woman for one year because she downloaded a digital version of an Al Qaeda magazine onto her mobile phone.

You make it sound as though she was downloading Vanity Fair.

"Kate Wilkinson, prosecuting, said: "These items contained both instructional and ideological material." The terrorist material included instructions on remote control detonation, handgun training and how to ignite forest fires."

ps: I would have accidentally ripped off the veil.

Edited December 10, 2012 by cheeryble

[mccw]

Last week in England they jailed a woman for one year because she downloaded a digital version of an Al Qaeda magazine onto her mobile phone.

You make it sound as though she was downloading Vanity Fair.

"Kate Wilkinson, prosecuting, said: "These items contained both instructional and ideological material." The terrorist material included instructions on remote control detonation, handgun training and how to ignite forest fires."

ps: I would have accidentally ripped off the veil.

Should Strip the terrorists and thier sympathisers of citizen ship n send them off to Islamic hell hole of root. Take no more "refugees" from Islamic countries on security grounds. No more refugees full stop on economic grounds really, just allow immigration by skilled workers or business people would be much more sensible.

[mccw]

It's funny my wife says maybe its the British / France Karma to have to take in all these people's because of the former empires. I wonder if the same principle applies to all the benefits lay abouts, like they are world war 1 dead for country and so they get a new life paid for by the state.

[mccw]

5% unemployment is way better than 14+ % in any ones book. 5 is a reasonably normal level in good years and compares to current German 4%. The 1% starting block was just a measure of how exceptional an economy it was before.

Iceland interest rate is over 5%:

http://www.worldinte...ies/iceland.php

With compound interest = doubled money in 7 years

But they can buy; Half as many yanky dollars- do they give a monkeys?

That does not mean thier money is half the value!

Although:

http://www.tradingec...d/inflation-cpi

It's still a much better rate for savers than the negative real returns in all of the bailed out banker run economies and shows they are attempting to build economy on capital and sustainability rather than trying to reinflate/ further inflate a gaint debt bubble.

Diagnosis= putting citizens before private banking elite. (Big thumbs up icon if I had one)

Diagnosis= putting citizens before private banking elite. (Big thumbs up icon if I had one)

The Icelandic government says something, and does it. The EU, the US ( and even Japan )

governments say one thing and do another.

the Icelandic Government fears it's public. the EU and US government don't.

Indian Press Council chief Markandey Katju has said that 90 percent of Indians are idiots who are easily taken advantage of by the country's religious factions.

"I say 90 percent of Indians are idiots. You people don't have brains in your heads It is so easy to take you for a ride," local media quoted Karju as saying during a seminar. Katju is the head of a quasi-governmental organization that acts as a watchdog of the country's print media.

Lol I think this could be true of most of the US , irish, British population etc also

[Naam]

BTW I believe you were complaining about no action on the banks:

FINANCIAL TIMES Breaking news

Monday December 10 2012

Breaking News

US and UK unveil failing banks plan

US and UK regulators will unveil the first cross-border plans to deal with failing global banks on Monday, outlining proposals to force shareholders and creditors on both sides of the Atlantic to take losses and to ensure sufficient capital exists in the banks headquarters to protect taxpayers.

Writing in the Financial Times, Martin Gruenberg, chairman of the US Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation, and Paul Tucker, deputy governor of the Bank of England, say this represents the first concrete steps to end the too big to fail problem of large international banks.

http://link.ft.com/r...2012&a2=12&a3=9

unfortunately this is not an april fool's joke. i got this from my bank last week, excerpt only:

• We believe that government support will continue to prevent

losses for senior bondholders of major banks in the coming years.

However, we think a paradigm shift towards bailing-in senior

bondholders lies ahead.

• The European Commission's draft on the so called "bail-in

directive," scheduled to become effective in 2015, assigns powers

and tools to regulatory authorities to intervene in a bank's

operations and contractual obligations in order to stabilize the

institution. These tools would give regulatory authorities the power

to impose losses on senior bondholders.

• In our risk case we estimate a 10–20% probability that senior

unsecured bank bondholders could be forced to take losses in order

to help stabilize a failing bank even before 2015.

• We estimate asset classes impacted most from an unexpected

bail-in of senior unsecured bonds in the near term are European

corporate high yield and investment grade bonds.

[Naam]

Last week in England they jailed a woman for one year because she downloaded a digital version of an Al Qaeda magazine onto her mobile phone.

You make it sound as though she was downloading Vanity Fair.

"Kate Wilkinson, prosecuting, said: "These items contained both instructional and ideological material." The terrorist material included instructions on remote control detonation, handgun training and how to ignite forest fires."

ps: I would have accidentally ripped off the veil.

Should Strip the terrorists and thier sympathisers of citizen ship n send them off to Islamic hell hole of root. Take no more "refugees" from Islamic countries on security grounds. No more refugees full stop on economic grounds really, just allow immigration by skilled workers or business people would be much more sensible.

the afore-mentioned are all important facts relevant to the "Financial Crisis". especially the explanation "how to start a forest fire."

[Naam]

The purpose of me posting that picture with the Icelandic President was as the statement correctly said , they correctly jailed the banksters?

they jailed the banksters but Iceland's citizens are paying for the debt. that's why the president's statement "the government bailed out the people" is a blatant lie!

one more time:

Iceland Gets $11 Billion Bailout, but Will be Saddled with Debt for Years to Come

http://moneymorning....celand-bailout/

for a country with 319,000 citizens that's $34,483 per capita including babies and old pensioners just for this bridge loan not included existing former public debt. total public debt is 128.6% of GDP (2011 est.)

only 6 countries are higher indebted (Zimbabwe being the champion).

what part of "Iceland will be saddled with debt for years to come" is it you don't understand? will the debt be serviced and repaid with vulcanic hot water or steam? or will Iceland's illegal whalers kill a few more humpbacks and send them to the IMF and the other creditors in lieu of Dollars?

[mccw]

BTW I believe you were complaining about no action on the banks:

FINANCIAL TIMES Breaking news

Monday December 10 2012

Breaking News

US and UK unveil failing banks plan

US and UK regulators will unveil the first cross-border plans to deal with failing global banks on Monday, outlining proposals to force shareholders and creditors on both sides of the Atlantic to take losses and to ensure sufficient capital exists in the banks headquarters to protect taxpayers.

Writing in the Financial Times, Martin Gruenberg, chairman of the US Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation, and Paul Tucker, deputy governor of the Bank of England, say this represents the first concrete steps to end the too big to fail problem of large international banks.

http://link.ft.com/r...2012&a2=12&a3=9

unfortunately this is not an april fool's joke. i got this from my bank last week, excerpt only:

• We believe that government support will continue to prevent

losses for senior bondholders of major banks in the coming years.

However, we think a paradigm shift towards bailing-in senior

bondholders lies ahead.

• The European Commission's draft on the so called "bail-in

directive," scheduled to become effective in 2015, assigns powers

and tools to regulatory authorities to intervene in a bank's

operations and contractual obligations in order to stabilize the

institution. These tools would give regulatory authorities the power

to impose losses on senior bondholders.

• In our risk case we estimate a 10–20% probability that senior

unsecured bank bondholders could be forced to take losses in order

to help stabilize a failing bank even before 2015.

• We estimate asset classes impacted most from an unexpected

bail-in of senior unsecured bonds in the near term are European

corporate high yield and investment grade bonds.

The expression "too little too late" springs to mind.

[Naam]

The expression "too little too late" springs to mind.

when/if the government will confiscate your goldbars and/or your real estate there might be those who already lost their savings "too little too late".

to me it the fact that some people are raving and ranting about thievery by cheating creditors and next thing i read is they condone thievery by cheating creditors.

that is sick behaviour!

[mccw]

The exp<b></b>ression "too little too late" springs to mind.

when/if the government will confiscate your goldbars and/or your real estate there might be those who already lost their savings "too little too late".

to me it the fact that some people are raving and ranting about thievery by cheating creditors and next thing i read is they condone thievery by cheating creditors.

that is sick behaviour!

They could build in measures to protect the little man. Or maybe you should accept the risk of being an unsecured investor. The bloody business should be going bust! Why should the tax payers bail out bond holders? Not as if the the citizens holding mortgages have been bailed out and what would confiscating property or gold bars have to do with anything? The only reason that would happen would be to bail out the government after they got in to a mess bailing out the banks and bond holders. (Being sick icon)

[Naam]

They could build in measures to protect the little man. Or maybe you should accept the risk of being an unsecured investor. The bloody business should be going bust! Why should the tax payers bail out bond holders? Not as if the the citizens holding mortgages have been bailed out and what would confiscating property or gold bars have to do with anything? The only reason that would happen would be to bail out the government after they got in to a mess bailing out the banks and bond holders. (Being sick icon)

myabe you should accept that your goldbars are not secure and can be confiscated. it happened several times in a number of countries. that real estate was confiscated without compensation in central Europe after the war to house displaced persons is another fact.

what you are proposing is clearly theft or robbery under duress and all your yakety-yak "protecting the little man" does not change that fact. but perhaps karma will teach you a lesson.

[mccw]

They could build in measures to protect the little man. Or maybe you should accept the risk of being an unsecured investor. The bloody business should be going bust! Why should the tax payers bail out bond holders? Not as if the the citizens holding mortgages have been bailed out and what would confiscating property or gold bars have to do with anything? The only reason that would happen would be to bail out the government after they got in to a mess bailing out the banks and bond holders. (Being sick icon)

myabe you should accept that your goldbars are not secure and can be confiscated. it happened several times in a number of countries. that real estate was confiscated without compensation in central Europe after the war to house displaced persons is another fact.

what you are proposing is clearly theft or robbery under duress and all your yakety-yak "protecting the little man" does not change that fact. but perhaps karma will teach you a lesson.

I refer you back to:

" The bloody business should be going bust! Why should the tax payers bail out bond holders?"

It is not theft. The bond holders directly involved should have to accept a hair cut or let the company go broke and get zero! Up to them, that is the risk signed up for when investing and the reason a % is paid.

Again Y should they be bailed out by tax payers, gold holders or property owners?!

[mccw]

Japan's economy is technically in recession after it contracted for two straight quarters, according to fresh data released by the authorities.

Japanese April-June gross domestic product (GDP) was revised to a 0.1% contraction at an annualized pace or a 0.03% decline from the previous quarter, the Cabinet Office said on Monday. Previous data suggested that the second quarter GDP grew 0.1% from the previous quarter.

The revised data means that Japan is technically in recession, having contracted for two quarters in a row. July-September quarter GDP figures show it shrank 0.9% from the previous quarter in July-September quarter. During the third quarter, Japan shrank by the equivalent to 3.5% annualized drop in GDP.

-RT app

[mccw]

Fridays news of declining unemployment numbers was a victory only in writing: despite a drop in jobless claims, the labor force participation rate remains at its lowest in decades.

The percentage of working-age Americans who are either employed or actively in search of a job was reported as 63.6 percent for November 2012, two percentage points lower than the previous month and the worst the country has seen since 1978.

With the release of the monthly jobs numbers from the Labor Department on Friday, the White House has touted the latest figure an unemployment rate of 7.7 down from Octobers 7.9 as an indicator of their success in a promise to push that statistic down. In reality, though, fewer residents with an actual interest and ability to work are employed as ever before. The labor force participation rate has now been at or below 66.0 percent since the country entered a recession in late 2007.

While the White House is celebrating the lowest unemployment numbers in the history of the Obama administration, other statistics suggest the scope of the jobs market remains as grim as ever. Indeed, the number of Americans without jobs in the eyes of the Labor Department has shrunk two percentage points, but the proportion of Americans who are actively seeking employment as at its lowest in ages.

According to the government, another 350,000 Americans left the labor force during November, and when you keep pretending that huge chunks of workers disappear each month it is easy to get the unemployment rate to go down, wrote economy blogger Michael Snyder, who acknowledges that the number of Americans not in the labor force has grown by almost 8.5 million since the Obama administration began.

[mania]

While the White House is celebrating the lowest unemployment numbers in the history of the Obama administration, other statistics suggest the scope of the jobs market remains as grim as ever. Indeed, the number of Americans without jobs in the eyes of the Labor Department has shrunk two percentage points, but the proportion of Americans who are actively seeking employment as at its lowest in ages.

This is why reports mean squat in the USA

The truth can only be known by being there & seeking employment.

Their method of counting is rigged. They poll a small amount & also

declare many as not being countable because,

They are not on unemployment benefits

They have taken a low paying temp job to tie them over

They have given up looking after years of nothing

etc. etc. etc.

[midas]

While the White House is celebrating the lowest unemployment numbers in the history of the Obama administration, other statistics suggest the scope of the jobs market remains as grim as ever. Indeed, the number of Americans without jobs in the eyes of the Labor Department has shrunk two percentage points, but the proportion of Americans who are actively seeking employment as at its lowest in ages.

This is why reports mean squat in the USA

The truth can only be known by being there & seeking employment.

Their method of counting is rigged. They poll a small amount & also

declare many as not being countable because,

They are not on unemployment benefits

They have taken a low paying temp job to tie them over

They have given up looking after years of nothing

etc. etc. etc.

the USA has the technology to put men on the moon and yet they still prefer

to base unemployment statistics on nebulous polling ?

I am sure even the IRS ( or other govt departments ) would have the ability to tap into a wealth of electronic

data to provide a far more acurate picture ?

But then maybe they dont want too much accuracy because it would too embarassing ?

Edited December 11, 2012 by midas