Harley Davidson Expertise Please

[Sao Jiang Mai]

My father was recently involved in an accident on Nimmanhaemin Road. He was coming out of Sukasem Soi onto Nim road and because there are always cars parked on the corner, he had to slowly creep up onto the main road to see. A very speedy Harley came down and got panicked, swerved and hit another car. My father was not hit and he wasn't that far out into the road, we think that the Harley was going WAY too fast and judging from the skids, had he continued straight he wouldn;t have hit my father at all, but he panicked. Anyway, now he claims that it is going to cost 225,000 baht to fix. Sadly we were in between insurances. The police said that we could be found co-culpable as my father had had two beers at lunch and was 50.2 on the breatheliser (legal up to 50.0).

Anyway, the Harley somehow managed to get their bike from the police station before documentation and it turns out that it is illegal - no licence etc. So I was wondering whether such a bike would be original. it looked very old and didn't look like it was that posh. But I don't know. Would such bikes have only original parts? I just don't want to end up paying a put-together bike to upgrade to real Harley parts (he claims just the shield on teh front is 120,000). Just our luck with the one million Honda Dreams in CM!

Anywy, any advice would be greatly appreciated. I will be fair and resonable, but don't want to be taken for...ahem...a ride. Thanks.

[CLASBYCLAN]

I'm afraid to say that the bill you have receieved is why I would have driven off!

[dingdongrb]

225,000 baht to fix and your father is only partially responsible? Then I would think his cost would be half of that.

Another reason not to drink and drive even if it's only a "two beers" (Taxis and tuktuks are very cheap!)..... Sounds pretty fishy that the breathalyzer measured 50.2... Perhaps you might question when it was last calibrated. Hmmmmmm

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

My father was recently involved in an accident on Nimmanhaemin Road. He was coming out of Sukasem Soi onto Nim road and because there are always cars parked on the corner, he had to slowly creep up onto the main road to see. A very speedy Harley came down and got panicked, swerved and hit another car. My father was not hit and he wasn't that far out into the road, we think that the Harley was going WAY too fast and judging from the skids, had he continued straight he wouldn;t have hit my father at all, but he panicked. Anyway, now he claims that it is going to cost 225,000 baht to fix. Sadly we were in between insurances. The police said that we could be found co-culpable as my father had had two beers at lunch and was 50.2 on the breatheliser (legal up to 50.0).

Anyway, the Harley somehow managed to get their bike from the police station before documentation and it turns out that it is illegal - no licence etc. So I was wondering whether such a bike would be original. it looked very old and didn't look like it was that posh. But I don't know. Would such bikes have only original parts? I just don't want to end up paying a put-together bike to upgrade to real Harley parts (he claims just the shield on teh front is 120,000). Just our luck with the one million Honda Dreams in CM!

Anywy, any advice would be greatly appreciated. I will be fair and resonable, but don't want to be taken for...ahem...a ride. Thanks.

hire a good lawyer. This guy's bike was not licensed? he was speeding? Your father and the bike did not make contact? I say a good lawyer can get you out of this. Also it does sound like the harley guy is trying to soak you because he is not offering to pay for a majority of the damaged because he was the one who screwed up.

I would agree with the other poster that you should have just left the scene instead of hanging around and being someones ATM. Was the Harley rider Thai or Falang?

[Sao Jiang Mai]

Sorry, I wasn't fair or clear, he did say to split the cost...which was still too high. As of ten minutes ago he has lowered his request to 80,000. Still feel that it is a bit steep. My lawyer suggests we fight it but says that chances are 50-50 for paying the whole lot. To be honest, thy seem to be quite reasonable-ish. I am not willing to risk it, so would rather negotiate, but would rather negotiate with some knowledge and expertise behind me...thanks for all feedback, anymore would be great.

[neverdie]

Yes, well 50.2 is a big drink>>>>must have been huge beers.

By the way 0.4 (or thereabouts) is clinically dead. I think you mean some other reading.

[Sao Jiang Mai]

Really? Then I don't understand as the police said that it was very little, just a unit or two over the limit. I must recheck. Thanks.

[Langsuan Man]

Unfortunately Harley parts are very expensive here in Thailand. Most have to be imported from Australia. There must be a shop that fixes Harleys in Chang Mai and I would seek their expertise on how much the repairs will cost. The labor and paint are cheap, it is the parts that will cost you. Whatever you do, listen to your lawyer, that is what you are paying for.

[chiangmaibruce]

* They probably meant 0.0502 blood alcohol. They have you over the barrel with the drinking aspect otherwise you might be more inclined to fight it. Any witnesses?

* Not unreasonable to ask the bike owner for an itemised list of what must be replaced - probably in the form of a quote ... then verify this with the shop. They may be mates with the bike owner, so perhaps then verify prices with Harley Davidson HQ in BKK.

* I am sure your lawyer will do this, but no matter what you end up paying, be sure to get the bike owner to sign a release form so they don't come back for another bite of the pie when his 'whiplash' injury kicks in, etc.

[H2oDunc]

If the bike was not registered then I'd be tempted to tell the guy to go take a running jump. He should not have been on the road. Your dad did not collide with him and it sounds like as you say he just panicked and binned the bike.

[neverdie]

* They probably meant 0.0502 blood alcohol. They have you over the barrel with the drinking aspect otherwise you might be more inclined to fight it. Any witnesses?

* Not unreasonable to ask the bike owner for an itemised list of what must be replaced - probably in the form of a quote ... then verify this with the shop. They may be mates with the bike owner, so perhaps then verify prices with Harley Davidson HQ in BKK.

* I am sure your lawyer will do this, but no matter what you end up paying, be sure to get the bike owner to sign a release form so they don't come back for another bite of the pie when his 'whiplash' injury kicks in, etc.

I was a Breath Analysis Operator for many years, yet to see a device that runs to the 4th decimal point.

If it was a hand held device used at the scene of the accident, they are notorisly incorrect & rely on being accurately calibrated at least monthly. Sounds like a crock of <deleted> to me. I believe the OP, Just not what he is being told.

In the west the hand held device is only used as an indicator to give the police power of arrest, from there they undergo a breath analysis, which is much more accurate, although it also relies on correct daily calibrations. I have absolutely no idea what they are doing here in Thailand. It scares me to think about it.

[brycat]

Anyway, now he claims that it is going to cost 225,000 baht to fix. Sadly we were in between insurances.

I just don't want to end up paying a put-together bike to upgrade to real Harley parts (he claims just the shield on teh front is 120,000).

I've got to say I think this guy is full of s**t. Check out the authorized HD dealership in BKK:

http://www.powerstationmotorsport.com/product.html

Look under Parts & Accessories/ Genuine Motor Accessories/ Windshields, then look at a few of the options.

None of the windshields listed are over $400 USD (less than baht 14000). I can't imagine that the price of shipping to CM would increase the price by baht 106,000! There's always the chance his parts are custom and they might be higher, but no way is a windshield going to cost baht 120,000 (around $3,400 USD) even with import tax and shipping. Anyway, 120,000 of 225,000 baht is 53% of the damages. What does the other 47% consist of? Must not have been that much damage done!

This is my recommendation: Find out the year and model of the bike. Get a list of the parts (make sure to find out whether they're custom or not). Contact the shop in BKK directly and do your own price comparison. Only offer to pay half of whatever you think is fair.

If all else fails and he holds firm to the baht 225,000 price hunt down a lawyer in CM. It might even be better to start there.

I think this guy is trying to tack on an extra zero to the repair price. Don't give into it!

[Sao Jiang Mai]

Well that is interesting about the breahtliser. I will look into that. My father had 2 singhas (large) at lunch. Took a two hour nap, came to my office and the incident happened around 4.30...Its a small town, so I don't want to screw over any one if we are partially culpable, they are OK with time payment which is more reasonable, I just was wondering whether it is the norm to assemble Harleys with totally original parts or is it that sometimes some parts are original, others not...My problem is the bike was removed from incident and police station with out any checking. Dodgy. We have agreed to pay halvers for the poor car that was crashed. Thanks for all this by the way, my father is very shaken - rather old - and I would rather avoid court.

[Bill97]

Some other facts could be relevant to consider but not necessarily answer for all to read.

Did the police give your father a ticket for DUI drunk driving or any other violation? If not then why is it a part of the issue?

Did the police test the Harley driver alcohol or drugs? Did they give him a ticket for any violation like for a illegal bike or anything else? Did they measure the skid mark and estimate the Harley drivers probable speed ? Did he have a license to drive a motorcycle?

Are there any witness statements that confirm your suggestion of the Harley's excessive speed and/or ability to avoid the accident by simply going straight?

A lot of damage to the Harley, was the rider injured?

Anyway, you or someone knowledgeable should at least talk to the repair shop about the cost estimate details and get a copy of that, then get another estimate from an other shop or two. Get an opinion about whether or not the damaged parts were even original parts. Also, you can confirm some of the parts prices independently.

Edited January 26, 2009 by Bill97

[Fore Man]

Nimmanhaemin is a bad area known for reckless driving, since it is always so busy and motorcycle riders tend to act impervious to all other forms of movement. We have narrowly missed collisions with riders many times and each time it was clearly their speed and weaving that was the cause. As much as I like Harley's, here in the LOS their owners tend to act as if they are driving a 5-ton dump truck instead of a 2-wheeler....arrogantly and expecting anything else to give way. I agree that a good lawyer is needed. Without corroborating witness statements that point to any involvement by your father the case seems shaky and you are being squeezed unfairly. What about other pedestrians that may have been in the immediate area...were there any and were they questioned by the BiB? You can't simply disappear as you mention that you have an office in CM and apparently are a long term resident. Next time, tell your dad to do an about face and head off briskly in another direction. This is an incredible story and adds another dimension of how a hapless farang can be gouged in Thailand when the fault was clearly due to excessive speed and reckless driving by a local.

[Sao Jiang Mai]

This is great! Lots of food for thought. To answer questions above:

Yes, he was officially breathelised, the other guy was too, and was cleared.

There were witnesses. Someone said that the Harley was speeding, but everyone said my father was about a metre and a half out of the soi...but as I said, you have to be on that soi to see past the cars parked on the corner. There was only one real witness, other people just saw it after or heard the sound. He started skidding about eight metres before the soi and hit the car about anotehr 8 metres after the soi...16 metre skid, seems a lot. Thankfully there were no cars on the road (he was speeding to catch the lights) and the poor car was simply parked at the ATM accross the road while the girl was getting cash.

Rider had small scrape on knee, no injury to speak of.

The problem about getting estimates is that this is well over a week after the incident (after rider took his bike out of compound by claiming that he didn't trust the police to take care of his expensive machine, while my father's car which was not touched was impounded for a week, and the rider went to BKK until now) I have no idea what he has been tinkering with on the bike. He did bring in an expert before he left, which by all accounts is a very honorable guy, some farang called Ricchi, who estimated teh 225,000 baht but Ricchi doesn't know the bike or the owner and what if the parts were not real or new in teh first place? And no insult to Ricchie, who seems lovely, I don't know him from adam.

My father nearly got into more trouble as he is 74 and does not have a mobile and our house is down soi 3 so he wanted to walk to the house to use the phone to call me and they nearly had him arresetd for running away! Thank fully they realised that was rediculous.

[malcy]

Yes, well 50.2 is a big drink>>>>must have been huge beers.

By the way 0.4 (or thereabouts) is clinically dead. I think you mean some other reading.

when i got banned the reading was 210 and i admit i had a very big drink , 0.4 clinically dead ? i think you mean some other reading

[malcy]

ooops unless it was 0.210 in which case i apologise ( drunk again )

[Greenside]

Someone said that the Harley was speeding, but everyone said my father was about a metre and a half out of the soi...but as I said, you have to be on that soi to see past the cars parked on the corner.

Not to muddy the waters further but it's the (usually illegal) parking on the corners that is the root cause by the sound of it. Not only would your Dad not have had to advance into the main road so far but the bike rider would have had the chance to see him earlier too. Not all the junctions have red bars painted on the kerb but if there were did the police take any note of the car obscuring the view? Given that your father is being held partly responsible for damage to a parked car across the road you'd think an illegal parker should also share (take most of) the blame. You can bet that if you were parked on the corner and an accident resulted you'd be first in line at the booking desk.

Hope it all works out OK for you.

[Nienke]

Have no advice or suggestions, other than to wish you and your father good luck with this very unfortunate incident.

[FarangCravings]

One guy was drunk the other had a illegal vehicle on the road so BOTH parties had no business being on the roads

If his bike was licensed you would be responsible for its repairs and Harleys are notoriously expensive here in LOS and I dont think that the price quoted is that much for a Harley repair as it would include all the body work repaint job etc even an old harley here in LOS will cost you over a Million Baht

Maybe if the driver was not impaired by alchohol this may of been avoided 2 large Singas at over 5% alcohol is more than enough to put someone over the limit.

P.S Ricchi is the main Harley guy here in Chiang Mai and while i have not met him I have many biker friends who have and he's a top knotch guy that knows his stuff if he says thats what it will cost to fix then thats the estimate and there not need to try to discredit him he knows his stuff

Edited January 26, 2009 by FarangCravings

[FarangCravings]

I just was wondering whether it is the norm to assemble Harleys with totally original parts or is it that sometimes some parts are original, others not...

Absolutely normal no Harley rider would put NON original parts on his bike

[FarangCravings]

Really? Then I don't understand as the police said that it was very little, just a unit or two over the limit. I must recheck. Thanks.

Hmmm not sure where you are originally from but legally drunk is legally drunk not matter how little over the limit it shows on the breatherlizer, you should be thankful that your dad is not locked up in Jail as he would definately be in any western country.

He was drunk end of story no excuse if he had not had a drink another story

[neverdie]

Yes, well 50.2 is a big drink>>>>must have been huge beers.

By the way 0.4 (or thereabouts) is clinically dead. I think you mean some other reading.

when i got banned the reading was 210 and i admit i had a very big drink , 0.4 clinically dead ? i think you mean some other reading

No when you got done your reading was 0.210 (very high & very intoxicated). 0.4 is close to clinically dead for the average person (I cant remember the exact reading but it was only slightly over 0.40. I definately don't mean some other reading. The legal limit (depending on where your talking about) isnt 0.5 its 0.05, okay? If in doubt, perhaps you might like to check my qualifications

[neverdie]

Really? Then I don't understand as the police said that it was very little, just a unit or two over the limit. I must recheck. Thanks.

Hmmm not sure where you are originally from but legally drunk is legally drunk not matter how little over the limit it shows on the breatherlizer, you should be thankful that your dad is not locked up in Jail as he would definately be in any western country.

He was drunk end of story no excuse if he had not had a drink another story

That is wrong too. The term 'Drunk' has nothing to do with being over the limit in regards to the prescribed concentration of alcohol per 100 millilitres of blood. The question here is what was his father tested with and when was it last calibrated?

[neverdie]

One guy was drunk the other had a illegal vehicle on the road so BOTH parties had no business being on the roads

If his bike was licensed you would be responsible for its repairs and Harleys are notoriously expensive here in LOS and I dont think that the price quoted is that much for a Harley repair as it would include all the body work repaint job etc even an old harley here in LOS will cost you over a Million Baht

Maybe if the driver was not impaired by alchohol this may of been avoided 2 large Singas at over 5% alcohol is more than enough to put someone over the limit.

P.S Ricchi is the main Harley guy here in Chiang Mai and while i have not met him I have many biker friends who have and he's a top knotch guy that knows his stuff if he says thats what it will cost to fix then thats the estimate and there not need to try to discredit him he knows his stuff

FC, Theres absolutely nothing like talking through your hat, my friend. It is highly possible that a person my consume 2 Singa's and still be under the legal limit for driving, the factor here would be the time that elapsed during the drinking and prior to the riding. I don't think this person is suggesting that his father consumed 2 large (750ml) bottles of Singa beer before the ride, is he?

[mcgriffith]

First of all, a little compassion for the OP.

Her father is elderly. 2 large Singha at lunch is borderline as far as drinking and driving for a younger person; it is known that with age there is a bit more impairment. But how many of us have not done the same, and got away with it?

To the question of the estimated cost for the Harley parts.

Yup, those overweight, slow, bad handling pieces of chrome-laden pig iron, built with largely 100 year old technology, are fiendishly expensive (and way overpriced in my opinion). But the estimate for repairs might not be too far off the mark.

My advice, SJM, is to contact a few of the big bike shops around town, and run the damaged bike estimate by them. Armed with that knowledge, your negotiating with the aggrieved should be enhanced.

Best wishes, and hope it all works out.

[malcy]

yes sounds about right neverdie

[neverdie]

I can't find where you all getting the '2 LARGE SINGA's' from.

The OP says 2 beers.

Anyway, as usual, the farang involved is the only one with money & is the easiest person to extract cash from.

I guess the OP wants to know about harley parts & yes I have heard they are expensive here in Thailand, I wouldnt know because I wouldnt want to own one. Fortunately no body was killed, that would really cost you considering the Police had some magic breath testing equipment that returned a impossible reading.

[neverdie]

yes sounds about right neverdie

lol malcy