Was I Being A Cheap Charlie Or Not?

[473geo]

All you guys saying i would never pay are deluded

It seems you are deluded or trying to be to make yourself feel better by insisting all men must pay like you, most men don't pay, its only the minority that do. But I'm lying, Im in my 30s now, in 10 or 20 years how will I feel? Well maybe 30 years I'd be willing to pay a salary to a woman to pretend to be my girlfriend.

Do governments not insist single fathers assume responsibility for ex girlfriends with children? I think about 30% of salary!! That would be men paying...would it not?

Do courts not award maintenance payments to support ex wives and children?? That would be paying would it not?

I am sure these men (tens of thousands of them paying!!!) would prefer to take responsibilty for a current wife or girlfriend through choice....rather than an ex with no benefits attached!! But society does not absolve them of their responsibilities;....however, there are those who are kind,generous, and responsible...of their own valition...with their own funding. No need for governments or courts.....who are we to judge their generousity?

To the op spend your money how you wish...enjoy it....giving can be fun!!!!.....you are not a Cheap Charlie....there are those here who would like to turn you into one.......

[bunnaag]

No you are not a cheap charlie you are not a very experienced charlie.It also depends how much she has to pay to the bar owner who told you the old story of an unexperienced girl with no child which arrived only a few days ago from the country side.That she is not so unexperienced shows her reaction when she saw your ATM slip.20 000 Bath a month is a big amount for a rural girl.Do you really believe that a bar owner who went up country to stock up on his dancers would let her go only after a few days work without a substantial bar fine?He probably had to pay some money to a family member.

Often the girls wind up in the bars themselves with no strings. The family often just consider them to be 'working' a restaurant or somesuch.

But then there are the young ones who find themselves 'bonded' to the bar and suchlike...

In this case the bar owner recruited the girl himself and brought her back.I think he had to make some payments to a family member though I may be wrong.In any case he must be an extremely good friend to let her go without any payment.In this kind of business an exemption of the rule. Edited February 5, 2009 by bunnaag

[a2396]

All you guys saying i would never pay are deluded

It seems you are deluded or trying to be to make yourself feel better by insisting all men must pay like you, most men don't pay, its only the minority that do. But I'm lying, Im in my 30s now, in 10 or 20 years how will I feel? Well maybe 30 years I'd be willing to pay a salary to a woman to pretend to be my girlfriend.

I have lived in LOS for over 4 years and I have not seen any Farang man who did not pay his lady, one way or another, maried or single, young or old. Farang pays.

[a2396]

to see this from her point of view, without passing judgment on the situation, where she comes from if she is "shacked up" with a man and the man only shares with her about 5% of what he has available money wise, the general consensus would be he is a very cheap charlie and likely does have other girls on the go. This is just village thinking im afraid..

Where is it stated that 25,000 bht is 5% of what he earns?

It's clearly stated in post 15 that 25k is, oops, my mistake, 5.12%.

So, he makes 500,000 bht per month? Approx $15,000 U.S. ($180,000 per year) and he's fooling around with Thai bargirls? He must have a hellava job.

[lazygourmet]

If you ever want meet up for a drink one of my favoured haunts is The Royal Bangkok Sports Club........

Do they let her in?!?

[caulfield2]

I think we need to distinguish reality from fiction here.

Yes, it's relatively easy to find girls between 24-44 that have very good (for Thailand) jobs, maybe a car, their own apartment, an independent standard of living, etc. Most of these girls will also speak pretty good English (because of their university and/or better schooling)...to where there is a legitimate level of communication possible.

The problem is always the guys who are in a hurry (visiting for 1-2 weeks) that don't have the ability invest in building a relationship...or maybe they don't trust "on-line" dating websites because of the stereotype that all those girls are working/gaming the system and have 2-3 different guys baited and sending money.

These guys might think they are falling in love and want to "sustain" the relationship by sending money when they return home. Of course, there are plenty who are targeting girls for relationships who are too pretty or too young for them. And that's where the money/support always comes in as a factor. If you want the 18-22 year old, coyote girl types, whether they work in a bar or not, and you're over 40...well, that's not normal either in any Western country, is it?

So I'm guessing that all the guys on here who never pay have women that are within 3-5 years (older or younger), right? If not, basically it's telling me that they weren't able to have a hot, younger, supermodelish girl in their own country...so they're using basic economics to expand the pool of dating possibilities. Even a doctor/dentist/lawyer/CEO in America or Europe or China/Japan/Korea at age 45 is not socially accepted to be with 18-22 girl with a perfect body, right? Celebrities even are frowned upon when they push the age limit thing too far...but, hey, they're celebrities or have millions so they can do as they please. I have lived in China, Philipppines, Thailand and Colombia, and have actually seen more "native" rich/upper-class men in those countries "dating" these younger girls. In reality, the parents are "pimping" them out to a family friend (better than a stranger to them) for the money it provides. Or in many universities, really incredible girls will find a rich guy willing to give them the equivalent of 5-10,000 baht for one night or weekend...guys they select/screen and can freely accept or reject. They use this money for plastic surgery, clothing, make-up, travel/vacations, school fees, their family, whatever.

So the question isn't really about prostitution, per se, it's about realistically looking at your age, money, appearance....and finding someone compatible. If there's a disconnect in a 3rd world country, you're going to pay....whether it's direct or indirect. I'm sure there are many men who pay for apartments/rooms, school fees, 1000 or 2000 baht here and there for the family, gifts/shopping, etc., that don't feel they are "paying" for their g/f's. It's just when someone has the temerity to actually make "lump sum" payments that everyone gets hot and bothered. Or maybe they know that all girls will talk and these men are subconsciously driving up the expectations for all Thai women. Just like if you were dating Pancake or Tongmo/Watermelon, Thai supermodels, you'd have to have a minimum of 100,000,000 baht to keep up with their lifestyles, travel, clothing requests/Siam Paragon, etc.

I highly doubt that most of these men are dating women OLDER than they are, or that anyone is dating a woman FIVE years older than he is. That I would like to see, maybe I'll be proven wrong...

When it comes down to it, what's the difference if a rich American or European has a trophy wife who doesn't work, is 10-20 years younger, has a perfect body (from a personal trainer and plastic surgery), maybe a decent education, involvement in her kids' school activities/PTA, volunteer work, travelling every month, spas/facials/manicures/pedicures/massages every couple of weeks...the women who are with the rich men. Well, simply, Westerners can come to Thailand and be those rich men they aren't in their own countries.

That's a different conversation, though. Whether/if taking "advantage" of your birth in a Western country by dating beautiful women in a 3rd World country is ethical/moral, right?

Edited February 5, 2009 by caulfield2

[thecatman]

Whether/if taking "advantage" of your birth in a Western country by dating beautiful women in a 3rd World country is ethical/moral, right?

Thailand......a 3rd World country???? I don't think so.

[JimsKnight]

Did it just get promoted to 1st World in the past 4 hours or something?

[Artisi]

To the OP - count your lucky stars and quit while you are ahead, buy her a bus ticket home and show her the door ASAP.

[geriatrickid]

What a thread. Is it really any different than someone making a bad investment in a bar, hotel, or some other money pit?

It also depends how much she has to pay to the bar owner who told you the old story of an unexperienced girl with no child which arrived only a few days ago from the country side.That she is not so unexperienced shows her reaction when she saw your ATM slip.20 000 Bath a month is a big amount for a rural girl.

Bang on. Oh yea sure the OP know's the bar owner. Big deal. I know a few of them too. Theday I stop buying whiskey or am broke, even after 3 years of drinking in some of the joints, I'll be personna non grata. That's the Thai bar business. Anyone that makes a living off the avails of prostitution is called a pimp. Sometimes they have nice smiles and seem polite, but at the end of the day, they are still pimps. I never met one I could trust.

She may have dreamed of big things in the bg trade, you cut her young career short and she had settled for something that didn't match the big dreams from the farm. She may also have been very bored. Now she has a chance to work it and go for the gold.

Depends doesn't it? If she still had her dignity and self respect, she'd have been happy to settle for an income she'd never have on the farm and without the hassles of a new ugly slob every week drooling all over her. On the other hand if she was a gold digger, well then yea, I see your point and the OP is better off, isn't he?

20k a month is fantastic money to most normal thai girls.I know from my experiences in the provinces that 10-15k a month is more than enough.

See? He agrees with me. So I must be right dammit.

[caulfield2]

Whether/if taking "advantage" of your birth in a Western country by dating beautiful women in a 3rd World country is ethical/moral, right?

Thailand......a 3rd World country???? I don't think so.

As soon as we see Thai/Laotian/Cambodian/Burmese men travelling to or working in the US or Europe and marrying significant numbers of "our" women and bringing them back to live here, then I'll believe that it's not...of course, Thailand has BKK/Chonburi and the Philippines have Manila and Cebu, but the rest of those countries could certainly be described as 3rd world by almost any measure.

[jayjayjayjay]

As I said in the original post I knew i would get the "why pay a girl to live with you brigade" slating me ........... but do none of you ever give your wives/gf's (thai or not) any money for there own needs???? I always gave my ex-wife (english) some money every month just to keep her sweet.... so she could go and get some new clothes/ perfumes etc!!!

We all have our own set of values, views on what is right and wrong. Off course it's normal to buy ones partner gifts from time to time, for me it's a sign of respect and appreciation amongst other things. Having a young, single ( no children to care for ) partner who doesn't work, for whatever reason would not be an ideal partner for me. Do you believe you are actually helping this young lady by making her totally reliant on you?

I'm in Issan at the minute and in the last few days have along with the wife spoken to people earning 4-5 thousand baht a month. Poor indeed, but friendly, cheerful and probably with a sense of self respect. Better to help this lady of yours progress in life through supporting her with education etc rather than her present situation.

Funny enough she was getting one of the Wall Street English courses for her birthday which would of been the middle of this month.....You know I tried to do right by this girl.............. but with her having bg friends i think have basically Fvcked everything up for us

Well, just think if it this way, she'll go and work in the bar with her friends. She can get the 5 or 6,000 baht or whatever the bar pay, get another 12-15,000 baht from customers, pay for her room and all other expenses and end up with 10,000 k after sending mum and dad 4 k,,,,,,,,,,,, if she's lucky. You however, can fork out a couple of grand to enjoy her (along with others) once a month and save yourself 18,000 baht................. sounds like a good deal!

[t.s]

Why don't you just give her your ATM card, pin number and let her use the money as she sees fit, seeing as it is a loving relationship founded on common grounds.

But seriously, if you want to spend your life with a "working girl", 10k per month should be more than enough. But keep in mind that there are no pensions / social security for her and her family and if you are the only cash cow you will be milked (probably dry) ... It is sad to see farangs get taken to the cleaners, but it's also sad to see these Isaan "woking girls" get left stranded when their farang boyfriends (who they have given their bodies to in exchange for long term financial support ) leave them high and dry.

If you want to go ahead with this one. Agree terms and stick to them.

My personal opinion is that she is a greedy cow and you should get shot of her. The bar will take her back with no problem.

10,000 per mo? Is that a BKK price & is that for a 24/7 live-in girl? I am curious, because I think I am paying to much for what I am getting.

what are you getting?

8,000 plus some extras

No live in & sex twice per wk. She is very beautiful & we have quite good communication otherwise.

and how much does this cost?

8,000 plus some extras

my lord this discussion is truly sad.

one can only imagine

[t.s]

OP, you must be a joker, with more than 1700 posts here = you should know better.

Easy : change Sim card, get a new number = she can not contact you by sms or calling.

Even better: change place of living = she can not visit you.

Then follow the many advice you already got here = MOVE ON.

a little reminder : this country have more than 30.000.000 females .......

Still think you are a joker!

spoken like a true coward.

had to check the adress bar on my browser, i thought i was logged into nanaplaza.com for a moment there

Edited February 5, 2009 by t.s

[thecatman]

As soon as we see Thai/Laotian/Cambodian/Burmese men travelling to or working in the US or Europe and marrying significant numbers of "our" women and bringing them back to live here, then I'll believe that it's not...of course, Thailand has BKK/Chonburi and the Philippines have Manila and Cebu, but the rest of those countries could certainly be described as 3rd world by almost any measure.

3rd World countries and not one mention of Thailand in any of the following catagories:

Third World Countries in terms of Political Rights and Civil Liberties.

Third World Countries in terms of their Gross National Income (GNI)

Third World Countries in Terms of their Human Development

Third World Countries in Terms of Poverty

Third World Countries in Terms of Press Freedom

I rest my case.

Edited February 5, 2009 by thecatman

[canadianmonkey]

As soon as we see Thai/Laotian/Cambodian/Burmese men travelling to or working in the US or Europe and marrying significant numbers of "our" women and bringing them back to live here, then I'll believe that it's not...of course, Thailand has BKK/Chonburi and the Philippines have Manila and Cebu, but the rest of those countries could certainly be described as 3rd world by almost any measure.

3rd World countries and not one mention of Thailand in any of the following catagories:

Third World Countries in terms of Political Rights and Civil Liberties.

Third World Countries in terms of their Gross National Income (GNI)

Third World Countries in Terms of their Human Development

Third World Countries in Terms of Poverty

Third World Countries in Terms of Press Freedom

I rest my case.

Rat infested 'secured and clean' villa parks

Hole on the sidewalk on major intersections

Food vendors all over the streets

dogs walking around the streets

list goes on for 50 pages of things that only happen in 3rd world countries and that also seem to happen in thailand.

[samuibeachcomber]

Why don't you just give her your ATM card, pin number and let her use the money as she sees fit, seeing as it is a loving relationship founded on common grounds.

But seriously, if you want to spend your life with a "working girl", 10k per month should be more than enough. But keep in mind that there are no pensions / social security for her and her family and if you are the only cash cow you will be milked (probably dry) ... It is sad to see farangs get taken to the cleaners, but it's also sad to see these Isaan "woking girls" get left stranded when their farang boyfriends (who they have given their bodies to in exchange for long term financial support ) leave them high and dry.

If you want to go ahead with this one. Agree terms and stick to them.

My personal opinion is that she is a greedy cow and you should get shot of her. The bar will take her back with no problem.

10,000 per mo? Is that a BKK price & is that for a 24/7 live-in girl? I am curious, because I think I am paying to much for what I am getting.

what are you getting?

8,000 plus some extras

No live in & sex twice per wk. She is very beautiful & we have quite good communication otherwise.

and how much does this cost?

8,000 plus some extras

my lord this discussion is truly sad.

one can only imagine

sad maybe but judging by the number of replies we all love these types of threads.

[Tod Daniels]

For 20,000 baht a month you can support ALL the inhabitants in most tiny villages in Nakhon Nowhere Issan. If she was as you so aptly put it "fresh off the Issan boat", how did you even converse with her, thru pantomime and drawings? Believe me FEW if any "Issan princesses" have even semi-marginal engrish skills, but hey you could have found an exception. If I've heard it one time, I've heard 1000 times; "Yeah, but this one is different…."

Paying a girl to be your g/f, how ever you justify it, especially such a HUGE amount of money is just wrong no matter how rose colored your glasses are, or how altruistic you think your motives were.

Most office staff that I know working in Bangkok make about 10,000 a month, and they all have bachelor degrees. Given the official posted minimum wage in Bangkok is 193 baht a DAY for an 11 hour stint in a factory or hauling cement up a bamboo ladder on a construction site I think you were just pissing money away.

That being said, I agree with the other posters who said you weren't so much a cheap charlie, but certainly fall into the category of a very stupid naïve one.

Better luck next time.

[jayjayjayjay]

As soon as we see Thai/Laotian/Cambodian/Burmese men travelling to or working in the US or Europe and marrying significant numbers of "our" women and bringing them back to live here, then I'll believe that it's not...of course, Thailand has BKK/Chonburi and the Philippines have Manila and Cebu, but the rest of those countries could certainly be described as 3rd world by almost any measure.

3rd World countries and not one mention of Thailand in any of the following catagories:

Third World Countries in terms of Political Rights and Civil Liberties.

Third World Countries in terms of their Gross National Income (GNI)

Third World Countries in Terms of their Human Development

Third World Countries in Terms of Poverty

Third World Countries in Terms of Press Freedom

I rest my case.

Rat infested 'secured and clean' villa parks

Hole on the sidewalk on major intersections

Food vendors all over the streets

dogs walking around the streets

list goes on for 50 pages of things that only happen in 3rd world countries and that also seem to happen in thailand.

Spoken like a true canadian monkey.

What about rape, knife deaths, drug abuse, domestic violence, road rage, etc.......are we starting to see the picture here....... Need I mention quality of life...... I'm with thecatman

Edited February 5, 2009 by jayjayjayjay

[Sabum]

All you guys saying i would never pay are deluded

It seems you are deluded or trying to be to make yourself feel better by insisting all men must pay like you, most men don't pay, its only the minority that do. But I'm lying, Im in my 30s now, in 10 or 20 years how will I feel? Well maybe 30 years I'd be willing to pay a salary to a woman to pretend to be my girlfriend.

I have lived in LOS for over 4 years and I have not seen any Farang man who did not pay his lady, one way or another, maried or single, young or old. Farang pays.

And all your friend are old fat guys right?! Cmon you guys do realise there are other brackets of society out there right? And not all Thai women are desperate and poor? Ah forget it.... At least Im willing to admit then when I'M old and fat I may follow the same trend as the rest of you but you guys just cant get your mind around what its like to be in my shoes now... NO PAY NOTHING EVAH!!!!!

[Gary A]

Then it would appear that you have NEVER been married, "EVAH".

[Sabum]

This is true. Ive never been married.

Someone commented on all men have to pay because of child support etc... well YA, if you didnt want to do that you should have kept your sperm to yourself!!!!!! That has nothing to do with paying a woman to have sex or paying her to be your girlfriend, nothing at all.

[somluck]

20K is an average local manager's salary?

I dun think you were being a Cheap Charlie at all, more likely a Sad fuc_k (no offense this term coined by Stephen Leather)

[caulfield2]

As soon as we see Thai/Laotian/Cambodian/Burmese men travelling to or working in the US or Europe and marrying significant numbers of "our" women and bringing them back to live here, then I'll believe that it's not...of course, Thailand has BKK/Chonburi and the Philippines have Manila and Cebu, but the rest of those countries could certainly be described as 3rd world by almost any measure.

3rd World countries and not one mention of Thailand in any of the following catagories:

Third World Countries in terms of Political Rights and Civil Liberties.

Third World Countries in terms of their Gross National Income (GNI)

Third World Countries in Terms of their Human Development

Third World Countries in Terms of Poverty

Third World Countries in Terms of Press Freedom

I rest my case.

The Asian tigers - South Korea, Malaysia, and Thailand, except for their big cities, their maquiladora-type production facilities, a small middle class and a much smaller ruling elite should probably be considered Third World countries as well, since their populations are overwhelmingly rural, agrarian and poor.

One of the definitions I read on-line said Thailand couldn't be named a 3rd world country, despite its meeting many of the requirements, due to it never having been colonized. And, of course, one of the largest reasons to back up your point is the economic boost provided by tourists (sex-driven and otherwise) to the country. It's kind of like bragging Thailand is a challenging place to meet (bed/marry, etc.) a woman because it's not in Africa or it's not Bangladesh, rural India or Sri Lanka.

Press Freedom and Political Rights/Civil Liberties? Hmmmm....well, Russia and China are much less "industrialized" by those measures.

Why aren't tons of farangs flocking to Eastern Europe, Russia or China to find a girl anymore? Is it ALL the weather, seriously? Or is it a little something I likie to call simple economics? You can have 3-4 girls in Thailand/Philippines for the price of one in Prague, Kiev, Budapest or Taiwan.

Do you see any of the leading countries for sex tourism in the world that you would describe as industrialized nations by anyone? Russia's kind of a different situation that any country in the world, and much of the country outside of Moscow and St. Petersburg is currently, by my subjective opinion having travelled there and married a Russian, like a 3rd world country, despite it still being technically one of the top 5-10 most "powerful" countries in the world due to its expansive nuclear arsenal.

Still, with the global economic crisis we're experiencing, I wouldn't be surprised to see more men flowing back to Hungary, Latvia, Estonia and some of the other Eastern European nations as those economies verge on collapse.

Edited February 5, 2009 by caulfield2

[donna]

i am shocked (but i guess i shouldnt be) that someone would choose a particular race of life partner because they were more economical! what a bizarre criteria for finding someone.

the thing is that, many (not all) people who come on to this forum bitch and whine about their 'fat assed farang' wife taking them to the cleaners, but when they meet a 'poor' girl in thailand, they happily give up half their salary to her, build her family a house, and buy her a motorbike.

bit weird to me.

and to the OP, who asks if 20k is being a cheap charlie - i say no. i say you may be a little naive, but you arent cheap.

dump her i say, and get yourself a woman who isnt greedy. there are plenty around.

[caulfield2]

All you guys saying i would never pay are deluded

It seems you are deluded or trying to be to make yourself feel better by insisting all men must pay like you, most men don't pay, its only the minority that do. But I'm lying, Im in my 30s now, in 10 or 20 years how will I feel? Well maybe 30 years I'd be willing to pay a salary to a woman to pretend to be my girlfriend.

I have lived in LOS for over 4 years and I have not seen any Farang man who did not pay his lady, one way or another, maried or single, young or old. Farang pays.

And all your friend are old fat guys right?! Cmon you guys do realise there are other brackets of society out there right? And not all Thai women are desperate and poor? Ah forget it.... At least Im willing to admit then when I'M old and fat I may follow the same trend as the rest of you but you guys just cant get your mind around what its like to be in my shoes now... NO PAY NOTHING EVAH!!!!!

Ummm...why are you bragging you can meet girls for free on an Internet forum, like it's some kind of major accomplishment? As mentioned earlier in this thread, if you're under 40, are normal or above in appearance, not socially akward or mentally ill and are nice/sweet/polite/charming, then it's impossible NOT to have as many women as you'd like here.

If you could have an unlimited amount of women (very easily, with little effort) in your own country, then why are you here? Western women want equal rights and are all evil, non-traditional feminists? They can't be controlled and manipulated so easily? Because they want depth and substance in a relationship and you can't become emotionally-attached or committed?

I think you are starting to let your "success" with women here go to your head...the wrong one. It's not real, get over it. You are just a normal, average person...not a celebrity or "VIP." If you want to believe that you are God's gift to Thailand, go ahead and continue to live in denial of the reality approaching when you're still living the same lifestyle (or trying to) in your 50's or 60's. Then please come back to this forum and post about your new range of experiences with the suddenly more calculating/cold Thai females.

[donna]

well said caulfield2.

[OxfordWill]

This point has only been made twice in this thread, whereas the "she's a gold digger" has been made 100 times:

I dont think its likely in 4 days she has become a gold digger. Unless a big sister filled her head with experience for years prior.

Maybe, she is insulted by how little of your wealth you are sharing with her, given that she comes from the village and possible thinks you are in a serious relationship together. This means she would assume you have other girls more important to you than her.

Solution: clarify your relationship with her.

[caulfield2]

i am shocked (but i guess i shouldnt be) that someone would choose a particular race of life partner because they were more economical! what a bizarre criteria for finding someone.

the thing is that, many (not all) people who come on to this forum bitch and whine about their 'fat assed farang' wife taking them to the cleaners, but when they meet a 'poor' girl in thailand, they happily give up half their salary to her, build her family a house, and buy her a motorbike.

bit weird to me.

and to the OP, who asks if 20k is being a cheap charlie - i say no. i say you may be a little naive, but you arent cheap.

dump her i say, and get yourself a woman who isnt greedy. there are plenty around.

How many men that are 50+ (the large majority of the ones building houses and starting 2nd or 3rd lives or families here in Thailand) could ever dream of having a beautiful (or even very attractive) woman that's 25-30 or even 35 in their own countries?

It's simply a trade of money/security/stability for youth and beauty, nothing more. You can call it companionship, love, like, a partnership, a business deal...whatever term you assign to it, it essentially comes down to this "bargain with the devil."

Now I know there are exceptions where the relationships/marriages are age appropriate, the woman maybe even makes more than the foreign husband and they both have professional/advanced degrees or work for multinational corporations, but the average guy building in Isaan is a retiree or came into a significant amount of money at an earlier age (luck, business, illegal activities or corruption, hard work, family/inheritance) and decided this would be his version of a tropical Eden on Earth.

Not only that, but many poorer girls/women will overlook multiple divorces and children more easily than women in Western countries.

For that matter, when's the last time you saw any beautiful woman in ANY country that was with a guy who was significantly older (15+ years) where he didn't have a lot of money (most would consider him rich)??? Gee, I wonder why that is. Men see appearance first, in general terms, women see money/security/stability. Hollywood love and romance...Nicholas Sparks...it is not.

Edited February 5, 2009 by caulfield2

[saraburioz]

I don't understand why ANYONE would want a girl from a bar.

I met a millionairess Thai women in Italy many years ago. I was working as a model there so maybe looks are important.

Even the uglies - there are normal women everywhere.