Governor Petitioned To Ban The Second Chiang Mai Gay Pride Parade

[samuibeachcomber]

There are certainly a lot of Gays here and it is no secret that they have large disposable incomes and are not usually trouble makers. Why not a Gay Pride parade?

seems strange to ban something like this when half of the thai population would appear to be gay.

[cmsally]

I agree with this, I don't see the need for a celebration to accentuate differences. I'm not gay but know many people who are and both Thai and foreigners seem to be very well accepted into the community. To hold an event which merely serves to exaggerate the differences would I think have an adverse affect on the local community. It would grate on their tolerance and would highlight divisions. If you want to live successfully in a local community the best way is to integrate and it's a little difficult to do when you keep pointing out that you are different.

However if the gay community wanted to organise something that the whole community could take part in, then it would be received rather differently.

It's a little bit as if I wanted to organise a parade for foreigners only, the local community immediately would be excluded.

Sorry Sally our posts crossed but I would like to respond. I believe all people are welcome at the festival. That is why it is organised as public event. In other Gay Pride events around the world everyone is welcome regardless of sexual preference. I have no reason to believe Chiang Mai would be any different.

In that case I don't see any reasons against it, as long as you can include everyone. Which brings me back to my original question, the reasons against it (according to 1 poster) seemed to be brought forward by a section of the gay community. Or did I just misunderstand the post? If so the issue would seem to be not involved with the local community at large.

[SomchaiCNX]

Flower parade (next weekend)

Songkran

Loi Krathong

Any processions up to Doi Suthep and around the city to a temple or a church

Chiang Mai bike week

Chiang Mai food festival

Chiang Mai winter fare

Miss garlic

Miss somtam

Miss lamyai

Etc Etc

Just ban them all.

[ilovecm]

Sounds like Mplus is angling for funding. Why can't these NGOs stop trying to fix things that aren't broken?

Not at all. there are some 'other gay groups' and gay people who have got upset because they were not invited. They have forgotten why we hold Gay Prides (united we stand), they - the people trying to stop it - are all about their own self publicity - a thai man and a german - they should be ostracized by the whole gay community. MPlus held the first gay pride last year, they need help - not hinderance. Going to the authorities was WRONG

So if I understand this correctly, it is some gay groups for the parade and others against. In other words there are factions within the gay community. This is rather different than ordinary people taking a stand against it. Isn't this more of a situation where within one group, one section feels it is being misrepresented by another??

Yes there are factions within the gay community, same as all communities. But this should never have been brought to the authorities - but sorted out within the gay community. Hopefully the Gay Pride will be a success. anyone knows dates, times places?

[Kaez]

All I ask is why do gays need a parade? I don't see parades for heterosexuals. Parades just plug up the traffic in already over crowded streets.

If you did have a parade for heterosexuals there would be an uproar in the gay community, you would all be labeled as homophobes, yet in reality straights should have the same right to celebrate being straight as gays.

I think the main issue with gays is they let their sexuality DEFINE them, IE, wanting to portray to the world that they are gay. Mind you, not all, but most do this. . I dont have a problem with someone that is gay, until they feel they need to announce the fact, and shove it in my face.....like the form of a parade. The same goes for some jock that defines himself as a die hard sports fan, no problem until they start getting rowdy.

But to me, its sad that someone would let something as simple as their sexuality define them, as for me, what sex I prefer is such a small portion of who I am as a person, that it would be such a waste if that was my main trait that I showed to the world. I pity most gays that are "gay and proud", so sad to have that as your major focus of their life. The gays that are gay and carry out life without the need to announce it, I admire.

[Pdaz]

Flower parade (next weekend)

Songkran

Loi Krathong

Any processions up to Doi Suthep and around the city to a temple or a church

Chiang Mai bike week

Chiang Mai food festival

Chiang Mai winter fare

Miss garlic

Miss somtam

Miss lamyai

Etc Etc

Just ban them all.

They all appear to be 'family' type events aimed at many people... Suitble for kids and not promoting a deviant sexual lifestyle.... You try explaining to a 5 year old why two men are holding hands or kissing each other...

Despite all the propganda and 'parades' homosexuality isn't widely excepted in the World and is still a punishable offence in many countries or seen as abhorant by the majority... If gays want to be acccepted they would be better mixing with others rather than organising events purely for their own glorification...

Edited February 5, 2009 by Pdaz

[bungalowbill]

Oh please surely in the 21st century people can't take offence at a gay pride event?

It is a party, a celebration of life, tolerance and community. If more people celebrated these values more regularly then perhaps there would be a lot less strife and misery in the world.

Live and let live and the world might become a better place.

if its truly a celebration of community then why this overpowering need to advertise your differences to those of other sexual persuasions.

just get on and enjoy your lives as part of the community as everybody else does and less have lets of this setting yourselves apart as some persecuted minority.

nobody is really interested in your sexual preferences or anybody elses for that matter.

thais generally accept gays , transvestites , transgenders and those of all other sexual preferences , as part of societies , communities and workplaces and have done for a long time without the need or desire to have western style gay pride parades.

perhaps gays should be tolerant of the views of a lot of thais when it comes to sexuality , and that is to live and let live but keep it low key.

What do you mean? "gays should be more tolerant of the views of a lot of Thais. This parade is organized by Thai gays, so why are we debating this? It's their city, their country, and its their business to have a parade, and as Pagaai says it will raise money for HIV awarenes and prevention which is on the rise in Chiang Mai amongst all young people, not just gays.

[Pdaz]

All I ask is why do gays need a parade? I don't see parades for heterosexuals. Parades just plug up the traffic in already over crowded streets.

If you did have a parade for heterosexuals there would be an uproar in the gay community, you would all be labeled as homophobes, yet in reality straights should have the same right to celebrate being straight as gays.

I think the main issue with gays is they let their sexuality DEFINE them, IE, wanting to portray to the world that they are gay. Mind you, not all, but most do this. . I dont have a problem with someone that is gay, until they feel they need to announce the fact, and shove it in my face.....like the form of a parade. The same goes for some jock that defines himself as a die hard sports fan, no problem until they start getting rowdy.

But to me, its sad that someone would let something as simple as their sexuality define them, as for me, what sex I prefer is such a small portion of who I am as a person, that it would be such a waste if that was my main trait that I showed to the world. I pity most gays that are "gay and proud", so sad to have that as your major focus of their life. The gays that are gay and carry out life without the need to announce it, I admire.

What an excellent post... Wish I could have put my point so elloquently...

[Lobin]

If gays want to be acccepted they would be better mixing with others rather than organising events purely for their own glorification...

exactly, gays are segregating themselves with their own actions.

and as another poster mentioned, if heteros were to organise an event purely for heteros then they would be seen as being offensive and prejudice.. so what the difference when a gay parade is held.

lets have a white and proud rally shall we?! hmmm dont think that would go down to well either. am i bigoted? no i just have an opinion, just like everyone else, but i dont go marching down the street having parades.

HIV awareness, ok, gay and proud? our survey says.. uh uuuh..

do what you wanna do, but why shout about it?

[Jingthing]

My feeling is that any gay parades that may or may not occur should be organized by Thai gays, not imported gays. I say that as one of the marchers in the very early gay freedom day parades in San Francisco in the 70's when they were much more a political event than a party/commercial event. In the US and many other countries all over the world, even today, gay young people commit suicide in much greater percentage than others. Heteros think that is because they are sad they are gay. But they are wrong, the reason is that they are rejected by their families, friends, religions, etc. for being gay and their self esteem is crushed and adolescents have limited coping ability. What is gay for Thais is not the same as for westerners. I honestly don't know if there is same kind of suicide problem with young Thai gays. However, while I like a good parade as much as everyone, I still do not feel we as westerners should impose our cultural expectations and definitions about what gay is on Thailand anymore than Christian missionaries. Just my opinion. For the hetero people making these incredibly ignorant remarks, why are you so stupid? You have had every opportunity to learn about this but you don't bother. I suggest all of you catch the wonderful recent film MILK to understand about the politics behind the gay liberation movement and gay freedom day parades in the west. If you are in the mood for a tear jerker on the topic of hateful society induced gay teen suicide, find a copy of the made for tv movie Prayers For Bobby.

I imagine most "out" western gay people wouldn't share my view that we should not push a western paradigm of gay liberation on Thais. Another case in point, we are just people, with many varying points of view.

Edited February 5, 2009 by Jingthing

[StevieH]

having been to a number of gay pride events in london and had nothing but a good time and a laugh, i have to wonder about the humanity of people who can object to something like this. try to open your minds just a little and maybe think of it as a street party which just happens to be organised by gay people at which heterosexuals are more than welcome too. lighten up and get over yourselves for goodness' sake.

[Lobin]

lighten up and get over yourselves for goodness' sake.

no its the gays that need to 'get over' themselves, its about time that they realised that they are NOT the only gay in the village, and it is quite a normal thing to be a gay in thailand, so why the h_ell do they need to shout about it? we got it, your gay, so what?!

[StevieH]

lighten up and get over yourselves for goodness' sake.

no its the gays that need to 'get over' themselves, its about time that they realised that they are NOT the only gay in the village, and it is quite a normal thing to be a gay in thailand, so why the h_ell do they need to shout about it? we got it, your gay, so what?!

it's a 'normal thing' to be gay anywhere. 'they' are inviting you to a big street party. there will be drinking and dancing and singing and fun. if you don't want to go, don't. me, i've seen few funnier sights when drunk than a six foot six tall drag queen tottering about on eight inch stiletto heels belting out barry manilow's 'copacabana'. the world needs more of this kind of fun, not less.

[Jingthing]

and as another poster mentioned, if heteros were to organise an event purely for heteros then they would be seen as being offensive and prejudice.. so what the difference when a gay parade is held.

Go ahead and have your rally, see if we care. I am sure if you organized it, it would be offensive, you can't seem to help it. It sounds like you want to do an anti-gay event. A gay event is not anti-straight, it is simply pro-gay. You don't seem able to grasp the difference. As most people are hetero, most any public festival is already a hetero dominated event. Not enough for you? Greedy, are you?

Edited February 5, 2009 by Jingthing

[Lobin]

and as another poster mentioned, if heteros were to organise an event purely for heteros then they would be seen as being offensive and prejudice.. so what the difference when a gay parade is held.

Go ahead and have your rally, see if we care. I am sure if you organized it, it would be offensive, you can't seem to help it. It sounds like you want to do an anti-gay event. A gay event is not anti-straight, it is simply pro-gay. You don't seem able to grasp the difference. As most people are hetero, most any public festival is already a hetero dominated event. Not enough for you? Greedy, are you?

my god, do you not read posts? i am not anti gay! i am anti gay parades!

its you that cant seem to grasp this concept.. i dont want to do a hetero parade, i never have done, dont you get it?!

why do people insist on pushing their beliefs on the masses??

[Jingthing]

dont you get it?!

I don't get you. I can feel the hostility coming off the screen.

Don't act so innocent anyway, who do you think you are fooling?

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Chiang-Mai-s...-T-t240645.html

Edited February 5, 2009 by Jingthing

[Paagai]

There are certainly a lot of Gays here and it is no secret that they have large disposable incomes and are not usually trouble makers. Why not a Gay Pride parade?

OK - so when and where is it? times dates venues PLEASE - lets all support it and enjoy

From the organisers website:

www.mplusthailand.com/chiangmaigaypride

One point to note, this thread is talking about the parade, thats only a small part of the whole event called Chiang Mai gay pride - see the link for full details.

I guess its no suprise to see the usual suspects have already started the usual homophobic bigotry. Guess this one will keep the mods busy!

I'm not going to be goaded into a slanging match except to say Thai culture is very accepting of gay people and gay lifestyles; if people have a problem with gay culture among Thai people (This is a Thai event, not a farang party) then maybe they'd be better off living in another country. Rather than denigrating other peoples lifestyles on web forums why not vote with your feet?

[Pdaz]

But why would straight guys want to go to a 'Gay' parade anyhow ?

It's just asking for trouble.. As I've said before, whatever you want to do in private is fine by me. But as a bloke who has in the past had far too much unwelcome attention from predatory gay blokes who don't understand 'No Thank you I'm straight' it would be the last place on Earth I'd go... Pretty certain many other hetro fellas would feel the same... Sorry but the whole idea is just nasty.

It is precisely the over-the- top camp as Quentin displays seen at "Gay parades' like this that produces negative feeling from the otherwise uninterested.... Most guys wouldn't think about homosexuality or gayness from one year to the next if it wasn't apart from the continual carping in the media and the gay lifestyle promoters incessant pleading that it is 'normal' And that's the way I like it.. Or as another poster has already said, '' So you are gay, so what ?''

edit: typo

Edited February 5, 2009 by Pdaz

[Mapguy]

Oh please surely in the 21st century people can't take offence at a gay pride event?

It is a party, a celebration of life, tolerance and community. If more people celebrated these values more regularly then perhaps there would be a lot less strife and misery in the world.

Live and let live and the world might become a better place.

I'll drink to that! Probably at your place! Of course, I'll drink to most anything!

My complaint about gay pride parades is basically two-fold. First, these parades are sometimes in large part grossly self-indulgent. Pretty childish, really. Second, it is true that Thai culture is in some respects very tolerant of sexual diversity, but the vulgar displays one often sees in such parades is really not consistent with Thai traditions of modest behavior in public.

Just as a passing note, I miss Simon's show. The place closed about two years ago, I think. It was a real family show, kinda Las Vegas 1950s style, with "spectacle" and good humor.

[StevieH]

why do people insist on pushing their beliefs on the masses??

a] homosexuality isn't a 'belief' and b] nobody's 'pushing' anything on anybody.

But why would straight guys want to go to a 'Gay' parade anyhow ?

because they're different from an average night down the boozer, they embrace diversity and they are an absolutely bloody good laugh.

Edited February 5, 2009 by StevieH

[brennanstimpy]

Nothing against gays, they make the same contributions to society as everyone else.

But why the need for a parade?

Most everyone knows their own sexuality - can't it just be left at that?

This is absolutely right. I was always under the impression that gay people want to be treated like everyone else. There has never been a heterosexual pride parade ever. No need for a gay pride parade, unless they want to be singled out and mocked.

[brennanstimpy]

All I ask is why do gays need a parade? I don't see parades for heterosexuals. Parades just plug up the traffic in already over crowded streets.

If you did have a parade for heterosexuals there would be an uproar in the gay community, you would all be labeled as homophobes, yet in reality straights should have the same right to celebrate being straight as gays.

I think the main issue with gays is they let their sexuality DEFINE them, IE, wanting to portray to the world that they are gay. Mind you, not all, but most do this. . I dont have a problem with someone that is gay, until they feel they need to announce the fact, and shove it in my face.....like the form of a parade. The same goes for some jock that defines himself as a die hard sports fan, no problem until they start getting rowdy.

But to me, its sad that someone would let something as simple as their sexuality define them, as for me, what sex I prefer is such a small portion of who I am as a person, that it would be such a waste if that was my main trait that I showed to the world. I pity most gays that are "gay and proud", so sad to have that as your major focus of their life. The gays that are gay and carry out life without the need to announce it, I admire.

What an excellent post... Wish I could have put my point so elloquently...

I agree, I wish I wouldn't have posted mine now that I read this.

[Jingthing]

No need for a gay pride parade

Two basic reasons: as a focus for equal civil rights under the law and as a special interest party. As I said before I would prefer if these were organized by Thais here if they are going to happen here.

[orang37]

I really like what Khun Milton said : "I just happen to believe that public festivals where a particular section of society can interact with the wider community are a positive thing beneficial to the whole."

And I agree with other commentators who have noted that "regular life" here in Chiang Mai is already a "heterosexual parade" (even if most of the clowns are ignorant unsmiling louts who carry beer-bellies and Singha, not balloons).

No one is "forced" to attend a Gay Pride Parade to my knowledge : so I fail to see why several posters have to use analogies like "rammed down my throat" except as an expression of their own sexual insecurities.

As a permanently maladjusted hard-wired heterosexual I'd like to say, as did Chairman Mao : "let a thousand flowers bloom."

If we are all not God's children no matter what our gender "flavour," then what are we ?

~o:37;

[DanaDeLuxe]

Good posts, Jingthing, I do agree with you and most of the pro-posters in this thread!

I've started to write a longer answer on this but gave it up as I see no point in discussing this with people that still think sexual orientation is a matter of CHOICE....

Over here in Germany I regularly do participate in Gay Pride marches to support my my gay and bi friends.

[StevieH]

incidentally, those not happy with this do realise that 'gay pride' is just a name for a party nowadays yes? and that the origins of the name are in celebrating the fact that discrimination and prejudice had been overcome back in the 1960s? it's a celebration of diversity and society's ability to evolve into something that accepts people of all sorts and types as just that, people.

[ChiangMai2]

incidentally, those not happy with this do realise that 'gay pride' is just a name for a party nowadays yes? and that the origins of the name are in celebrating the fact that discrimination and prejudice had been overcome back in the 1960s? it's a celebration of diversity and society's ability to evolve into something that accepts people of all sorts and types as just that, people.

So if the discrimination and prejudice was overcome in the 60's why are people still banging on about it now! Why does anyone need to celebrate that they are gay?

[Jingthing]

the name are in celebrating the fact that discrimination and prejudice had been overcome back in the 1960s?

Not completely. Maybe in Holland. Certainly the discrimination isn't over in the US and Thailand. Yes, there has been major progress in many countries.

Edited February 5, 2009 by Jingthing

[ChiangMai2]

Good posts, Jingthing, I do agree with you and most of the pro-posters in this thread!

I've started to write a longer answer on this but gave it up as I see no point in discussing this with people that still think sexual orientation is a matter of CHOICE....

Over here in Germany I regularly do participate in Gay Pride marches to support my my gay and bi friends.

Who said sexual orientation was a matter of choice and why do your gay and bi friends need your support to go on a march?

[miltonbentley]

So if the discrimination and prejudice was overcome in the 60's why are people still banging on about it now! Why does anyone need to celebrate that they are gay?

For the same reasons Americans still commemorate Martin Luther King Day, the French Bastille day and countless other examples around the world. Some of the posts on this thread show that discrimination and bigotry are not completely eliminated from society.