What Would You Do With A Guy Like This (ferang)?

[Yaaklenmai]

Say, for example, you reached an oral agreement (confirmed in writing) relating to a business opportunity, whereby he provided the investment whilst you were providing the expertise.

Then.

1) You spent over a hundred hours planning the business, drawing up business plans etc.

2) He received copies of everything, including new company email address (formed by you)!

3) He authorised spending on a particular software package, 14,000 Baht, (was to be 50/50) but now will not pay.

4) He authorised expenditure upon a particular item (35,000 Baht) but then would NOT PAY!

5) Now states that he has changed his mind and does not wish to honour the agreement.

6) "Bigs" himself up as the NUMBER ONE ferang in his city (I don't think so)!

My feeling is to treat him in no way differently to the way that I would treat him "at home".

I would add that he still continues to authorise (order) spending on other areas of the same project!

Thoughts please.

[Sabum]

I would never trust a falang or Thai in a business venture the way you did. That was a really big mistake. He should have been paying for any costs every step of the way or that step should not be taken , certainly not paid by you.

[Yaaklenmai]

I would never trust a falang or Thai in a business venture the way you did. That was a really big mistake. He should have been paying for any costs every step of the way or that step should not be taken , certainly not paid by you.

So?

What would you do (with him)?

I have my own ideas but would welcome suggestions.

[ukrules]

I would name him. Please send his name to me in a PM if you don't post it here.

Edited February 12, 2009 by ukrules

[Yaaklenmai]

I would name him. Please send his name to me in a PM if you don't post it here.

I might do later.

At this point, though, I think it is better to be none specific as he may not be a member of the forum.

He, also, may not appreciate the 20,000 Baht solution, offered by a local!

I would prefer to not, even, consider it!

Edited February 12, 2009 by Yaaklenmai

[kiakaha]

Say, for example, you reached an oral agreement (confirmed in writing) relating to a business opportunity, whereby he provided the investment whilst you were providing the expertise.

Then.

1) You spent over a hundred hours planning the business, drawing up business plans etc.

2) He received copies of everything, including new company email address (formed by you)!

3) He authorised spending on a particular software package, 14,000 Baht, (was to be 50/50) but now will not pay.

4) He authorised expenditure upon a particular item (35,000 Baht) but then would NOT PAY!

5) Now states that he has changed his mind and does not wish to honour the agreement.

6) "Bigs" himself up as the NUMBER ONE ferang in his city (I don't think so)!

My feeling is to treat him in no way differently to the way that I would treat him "at home".

I would add that he still continues to authorise (order) spending on other areas of the same project!

Thoughts please.

I would outsource the matter to my contract lawyer.

[Spee]

Say, for example, you reached an oral agreement (confirmed in writing) relating to a business opportunity, whereby he provided the investment whilst you were providing the expertise.

Thoughts please.

So you are out about $1500 and 100 hours of your time. Although probably quite frustrating, there may not be much you can do except write if off to experience.

When I am dealing with a problem, I typically answer questions with more questions. In your situation, the questions that come immediately to mind are these:

1) Have any other financial commitments been made by this person for which you could be held responsible? Better to make sure the bleeding is stopped before tending to other wounds.

2) Have you checked with a lawyer to see if your oral and written agreements are legally binding in Thailand? If so, then possibly you may have a small claims dispute to recover half of your money.

3) Most importantly, does the work you have done indicate there is a potentially viable business model? If so, then you may wish to pursue this opportunity on your own or seek out a new partner.

My opinion is that it is probably not worth pursuing any action against this person other than making sure that there are no other liabilities against you out there. What's 100 hours of your time worth? Probably somewhere between $5,000 and $10,000. That's 5x to 10x more than the cash outlay you are stuck for, but much harder to prove. It's your time that is important, not some small-ish cash outlay. Is it going to be worth another 100 hours of your time chasing $1500? Casinos get wealthy from gamblers with this sort of mentality. The smart people know when it is time to just walk away.

[lioness]

Walk away, lawyers will cost you a great deal more than what you have lost. Never trust a Farang, all the big rip offs I have seen here are all Farang. Chalk the loss up to experience and learn from it.

[bruceboy]

Unluckily, it sounds like a lesson in life.

[mc2]

threaten to name and shame him on every thai webboard you know if he doesn't pay up.

sure you made a mistake, so did he , you should give him a learning opportunity too.

even get a translation in Thai and post it up on Thai language web board so the locals know too

Edited February 12, 2009 by mc2

[retiredusn]

Before posting anything I would be sure everything is on the up and up, in so far as legal. (ie) Are all the proper visa's in line; work permits, tax, ect ect. If not then it would seem a matter between you and he not the law or courts to look at......

[LivinLOS]

I would take my shares in the business (it is a real business ?? With your work permit for this work all in order I take it) and either sell them back to him to cover my costs or otherwise leverage those for profit..

Of course if your working illegally, dont have a business registered and its all under the table then you wouldnt have a leg to stand on.

[geriatrickid]

Something is not right with the story. If the project is that important why did you not establish milestones where funds would disbursed when the specified targets were achieved? Money could have been paid into an escrow account. If you weren't prepared to establish oversight procedures, then what does it say about the expected results of the project? If this fellow authorised expenditures, then surely it was documented. If so, there are legal means with which to a obtain payment. Did you deliver on what was agreed to?

I have heard similar stories from software vendors, What they often conveniently leave out of the story is that the software did not comply with the agreed upon specs and that it was filled with bugs and deficiences such as equipment incompatability.

2 sides to every story. If this guy has burnt other people, then he will have a reputation as such. A proper due diligence of a prospective business partner will oftten uncover irregularities. You did do a due diligence, right?

[simon43]

If you want to make his future life absolute hel_l, introduce him to my ex-wife and tell him that she is very rich. By the time he realises that this is not true he will be a broken man :)

Only joking of course...

Simon

[patklang]

get legal advise,if that fails knock the guy out.

[Jungian]

If you have an agreement in writing, it is bound by law in Thailand. Go to the local court (at city hall) and file against him if it means that much to you.

[aussiejosh]

Get everything in writting, no.1 rule in business imo. (at least thats how I was raised)

Good luck, I'd ignore the 20,000 baht local option, it can get you into a lot of unnecessary trouble, if its such a big deal cut your losses and take the lesson. Now, if he ruined your life, like totally ruined it and you don't mind taking the risk take the local option, but it sounds as if your not at that kind of point.

Edited February 13, 2009 by aussiejosh

[Gary A]

Consider it a lesson learned. Partnerships seldom work out, I KNOW first hand. Cut your losses early.

[Moonrakers]

Unfortunately there is likely to be little or nothing you can do about it.

What's more is that it is likely that you have lost more than time and money, because I presume that this person also now has your business plan.

[aussiejosh]

I am starting a business currently in Thailand 50% Thai owned but will have nothing to do with the business, just paying the costs and letting me do the work. Technically its a partnership for the time being, but other than money he won't have anything to do with my business.

[PoorSucker]

If you want to make his future life absolute hel_l, introduce him to my ex-wife and tell him that she is very rich. By the time he realises that this is not true he will be a broken man

Only joking of course...

Simon

:D

[dave111223]

I you had a "oral agreement (confirmed in writing)" wouldn't that make it a "written agreement" aka contract?

And if he was supposed to "provide the investment" why were you buying everything? Did he ever give you money, which would lead you to believe he was good for the purchases you were going to make?

Edited February 13, 2009 by dave111223

[MSingh]

I wouldn't get into that position in the first place however as you asked the question, i'd beat him around the Legs & Knee area with a Baseball Bat or other blunt Instrument...

Edited February 13, 2009 by MSingh

[onnut]

I have met worse people then him. maybe you should kick some sense into him then pick him up and ask him if he is ready to play the white man?

[Maizefarmer]

Say, for example, you reached an oral agreement (confirmed in writing) relating to a business opportunity, whereby he provided the investment whilst you were providing the expertise.

Then.

1) You spent over a hundred hours planning the business, drawing up business plans etc.

2) He received copies of everything, including new company email address (formed by you)!

3) He authorised spending on a particular software package, 14,000 Baht, (was to be 50/50) but now will not pay.

4) He authorised expenditure upon a particular item (35,000 Baht) but then would NOT PAY!

5) Now states that he has changed his mind and does not wish to honour the agreement.

6) "Bigs" himself up as the NUMBER ONE ferang in his city (I don't think so)!

My feeling is to treat him in no way differently to the way that I would treat him "at home".

I would add that he still continues to authorise (order) spending on other areas of the same project!

Thoughts please.

of course there is always 2 sides to a story .... and we have your side ....but assuming its all that starightforward, dont waste your time ......... Let go and move on. Trying to pursue return of funds? You'll be at it for ever unless he agrees.

[aussiejosh]

Besides what kind of person trusts someone who ""Bigs" himself up as the NUMBER ONE ferang in his city (I don't think so)!"

That just makes me think either people are full of shit and trying to boast to me because they can't prove anything, or they are trying to steal something. Either way I don't deal with boasters, or I tell them to prove to me what they say before they say it. Working quiet well for me so far, just started a business with no investment of my own just running through the legal hoops and visa issues before i can release my product, but I got my agreement in writing and 100,000 baht has already been given with no drama. Get things in writing.

[juniorboysown]

I wouldn't get into that position in the first place however as you asked the question, i'd beat him around the Legs & Knee area with a Baseball Bat or other blunt Instrument...

Or stick him in the Boleyn with a Lampard shirt on.

[aussiejosh]

I wouldn't get into that position in the first place however as you asked the question, i'd beat him around the Legs & Knee area with a Baseball Bat or other blunt Instrument...

Or stick him in the Boleyn with a Lampard shirt on.

Or a wood chipper feet first... HARSH its only money.

[JohnJackson]

I would name him. Please send his name to me in a PM if you don't post it here.

I might do later.

At this point, though, I think it is better to be none specific as he may not be a member of the forum.

He, also, may not appreciate the 20,000 Baht solution, offered by a local!

careful what you post on a forum

I would prefer to not, even, consider it!

[aussiejosh]

/agreed about what you post on a forum thing

Might be nice to let us know who he is in case we encounter him.