Rabies, Dammit

[rrose070]

By a dog who lives 2 sois away. I know this dog is mean from prior walks and bike rides through the neighborhood, but it up and bit me for no reason about an hour ago. Since I already know it's a mean, nasty, unfriendly butthole, do you guys think I can safely just chalk it up to his filthy temperament? What are the chances of rabies? He doesn't foam at the mouth or anything and always attacks my dog on walks and chases me when I'm on my bike. Anyone have any idea of the costs of rabies preventative treatment? I'm in Chiang Mai. I keep tossing it around in my mind, but my husband had to have the rabies series a few years ago after being bitten by a bat, and I know it's a very painful process, with repeated visits and VERY costly in the US. Anyone? I'm trying not to freak out. I know I have about 20 hours left to make my decision...

[Pakeha]

Bad luck.

It sounds unlikely you would have rabies... BUT...

One question for you: Is it worth the risk?

[steelepulse]

My 5 year old daughter got bit at the beach a couple of months ago and we got her on the series of 4 or 5 shots.  Can't remember the cost, but I'd say you should get the shots to be on the safe side.

[Nienke]

Does the dog has an owner, and did it receive its rabies vaccinations? (Does he wear a collar, hopefully with tag?) If the dog did receive rabies vax, than you don't need to get these jab's yourself (as what a docter at ER told me recently). How about tetanus? Are you up to date with that?

If the dog has an owner s/he is responsible for the medical costs.

Are their punctures wounds or only scratches?

Sorry to hear/read about this.

[sbk]

Its not that painful, its injections in the arm. and if you go to the govt hospital instead of some expensive international hospital, its not even that outrageously expensive.

I was bitten by own dog trying to break up a fight many years ago. Even tho I knew she had always had her rabies vaccinations, I still had the preventative course of shots because, as the nurse said, vaccines aren't always %100.

If the dog has an owner, you should try to get them to pay for the injections, btw.

[rrose070]

Yep, it broke the skin pretty good. I'm taking my Thai friend by in 10 minutes to translate for me, but it seems pretty unlikely that this un-lovable dog has its shots. I'm still weighing my safety...

[rrose070]

Of course, it'll probably bite us when we pull up to enquire!

[sbk]

Yep, it broke the skin pretty good. I'm taking my Thai friend by in 10 minutes to translate for me, but it seems pretty unlikely that this un-lovable dog has its shots. I'm still weighing my safety...

Given this information regarding humans infected with rabies, I don't see why you need to weigh anything at all

Death almost invariably results two to ten days after the first symptoms; the few humans who are known to have survived the disease[citation needed] were all left with severe brain damage, with the exception of Jeanna Giese (see below). It is neurotropic in nature.

A little girl on Koh Phangan was bit in the face by a dog a few years ago, her parents did not know about it (they saw the marks but were unaware it was from a dog) and she died from rabies, she was 2 years old. I suggest that you re-think your position here.

[GungaDin]

Of course, it'll probably bite us when we pull up to enquire!

Go straight to a gov't hospital.

Don't hesitate, after that, find the b'stard dog and spray him with a good pepper spray.

Let him know what pain & discomfort is like.

[bina]

get the shots as rabies is prevalant in thailand even though the dog sounds like a healthy acting dog; rabid dogs dont often foam at the mouth until the very end, but they also dont really act like a normal nasty dog either...

in the health forum are several threads about rabies vaccines and procedures; i think thailand has a good rabies vaccine program, not too expensive due to prevalance...

gunga din-- that wont make the dog understand, and may incite him or his owner to do more damage. best is to talk to owner with bills in hand/or have thai friend talk with them. from the dog's point of view, he is doing his job protecting his territory by his house, and since u walk past or ride past when he chases u, he is convinced that he is the one making u leave the territory,it just re enforces his behavior. to the OP, try throwing him a hotdog or something else tasty when riding past, it may change his attitude.

once again: procedure for person bitten by any animal: washing the wound out with soap and water, vigorously, for at least 15 minutes, and/or allow wound to bleed . washing with a dilute solution of polidine disinfectant mixed in water the colour of weak tea, can also be used to soak the wound. should not be used on large open wounds however.

small puncture wounds are more dangerous than larger 'rips' as small puncture wounds close keeping anaerobic bacteria inside, causing very bad infections, which is usually the main concern when dealing with bites. small holes can hide large amounts of tissue damage in the wound . this is for humans and for other animals that have been bitten. for both dogs and humans a short course of antibiotics is often needed exactly for this reason.

this is standard procedure for vet/zoo keeping personnel.

bina

israel

[Tumbleweeding]

I think the best bet is to get the shots.

[jdinasia]

Its not that painful, its injections in the arm. and if you go to the govt hospital instead of some expensive international hospital, its not even that outrageously expensive.

I was bitten by own dog trying to break up a fight many years ago. Even tho I knew she had always had her rabies vaccinations, I still had the preventative course of shots because, as the nurse said, vaccines aren't always %100.

If the dog has an owner, you should try to get them to pay for the injections, btw.

I thought that there was no charge for the vaccine at Gov't hospitals (just the incredibly cheap charge for the dr/nurse/needle)

[patklang]

Apparentley you can chop the dogs head off,take to the hospital and they can see if the dog has rabies,from the brain.

[sbk]

Its not that painful, its injections in the arm. and if you go to the govt hospital instead of some expensive international hospital, its not even that outrageously expensive.

I was bitten by own dog trying to break up a fight many years ago. Even tho I knew she had always had her rabies vaccinations, I still had the preventative course of shots because, as the nurse said, vaccines aren't always %100.

If the dog has an owner, you should try to get them to pay for the injections, btw.

I thought that there was no charge for the vaccine at Gov't hospitals (just the incredibly cheap charge for the dr/nurse/needle)

They charge here, jd. Thais pay as well. but naturally, foreigners just pay more

[jdinasia]

Its not that painful, its injections in the arm. and if you go to the govt hospital instead of some expensive international hospital, its not even that outrageously expensive.

I was bitten by own dog trying to break up a fight many years ago. Even tho I knew she had always had her rabies vaccinations, I still had the preventative course of shots because, as the nurse said, vaccines aren't always %100.

If the dog has an owner, you should try to get them to pay for the injections, btw.

I thought that there was no charge for the vaccine at Gov't hospitals (just the incredibly cheap charge for the dr/nurse/needle)

They charge here, jd. Thais pay as well. but naturally, foreigners just pay more

hmmm I think my idea that the vaccine itself was free came from the show I saw on television about the only survivor of rabies (and the 2nd person to get the treatment was in BKK and from upcountry and didn't get the shots ... he died as the Tx didn't work for him)

[Sheryl]

Apparentley you can chop the dogs head off,take to the hospital and they can see if the dog has rabies,from the brain.

You can but (1) if the dog has an owner (unclear in this case) they are quite likely to not consent and (2) results will not come in enough time to protect you should it turn out a vaccined course is warranted.

From a health standpoint it is crystal clear:

unless it can be verified that this dog has been vaccinated, you need to get the rabies post-exposure vaccine series.

Once you have done so, btw, you can get a long lasting, relatively painless vaccine that will prevent the need for this in future.

[TBWG]

Hi

Get down the hospital and get the jabs ASAP. Cost me baht 2,080 which I was told the dog owner is duty bound to pay (did in my case)

Bearing in mind I was advised that 25% of dogs in Thailand carry the virus (not verified or checked) it is almost a cert that the dog that bit you has at some time come in contact with a carrier!

There is no ifs or buts with rabies if you do not have the jabs (almost painless!) and have been infected there is only one outcome.

Sorry to sound dramatic but get to the hospital asap better to be safe than sorry.

TBWG

edit I was bitten on the foot about 5 weeks ago and have just finished the treatment which as already mentioned is almost painless.

Edited February 22, 2009 by TBWG

[Rimmer]

Get the shots, they will be good for next time as well

I got bit, had the shots and boosters, they are not expensive or painful or in any way disturbing at all, so why not? Everything to gain and nothing to loose.

[mdechgan]

Apparentley you can chop the dogs head off,take to the hospital and they can see if the dog has rabies,from the brain.

Yeah I heard about this. Apparently the dog at the office bit someone passing by and the person wanted to have the dog's head chopped off for rabies testing. This was the company's pet and we were like what?!!! In the end she just wanted money for compensation for physical and mental harm.

[PeaceBlondie]

In my case, the dog's caretaker paid under 1,900 baht for the entire series and the Red Cross treatment. Jabs in the arm, no big pain

[F1fanatic]

Bearing in mind I was advised that 25% of dogs in Thailand carry the virus (not verified or checked) it is almost a cert that the dog that bit you has at some time come in contact with a carrier!

Where on earth did you get that info from???

Clearly WAY over the top (how many mad, rabid dogs have you seen?), but it would be interesting to know the true statistics.

I've been told that there is no rabies on Phuket. Anyone know if this is true?

[chiangmaibruce]

Yes it is very prevalent (at least on the mainland). There are obviously many many rabies threads in TV, but in one of these (last 6 months I think) someone actually posted a URL link to results of an academic study that gave the results of blood sampling of stray dogs taken in for testing. The %age that had evidence of rabies shocked me (can't remember the %age but it was higher than 25%). So if someone is patient enough to search the threads, the info is out there

[phaethon]

See: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Dog-Bite-Rab...19#entry2348919

[jdinasia]

I remember Phuket being rabies free for the last 6+ years

[F1fanatic]

See: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Dog-Bite-Rab...19#entry2348919

According to that study;

"The prevalence of rabies virus infection among 3,314 stray dogs [in BKK] investigated in 2004 was 0.03%"

Sounds a lot closer to the truth!

[chiangmaibruce]

I remember Phuket being rabies free for the last 6+ years

Yep, here's a TV thread on that issue:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Andaman-News...l&hl=rabies

I looked for the rabies thread I mentioned above but couldn't find it (it's definitely there though). I noticed the post about 0.03% prevalence mentioned by another poster when I was searching, but that's not the study I previously came across.

[bina]

when doing a blood titre for rabies, the level of anti rabies is what is being checked meaning that the dogs were vaccinated. if they were carriers, they would be dead fairly quickly as carnivores dont stay carriers for long. grazers like antelopes can be carriers for up to 6 months. and then there would be no need for zoo quarantines when a rabid animal is found in the perimeter of the zoo like we had in jerusalem zoo several years ago. a dead rabid fox was found, and animal bites on some antelope type grazers. the zoo was in quarantine for 6 months, visitors could visit but no animals could be exchanged, brought in, or moved out. and all animals and workers were vaccinated. if a blood test was available for presence of rabies, then that would have solved a costly problem.

if doing a blood test to find positive for rabies was possible, then there would be no need to have a dead refrigerated specimen to check brain ;it would just be a blood check at the local pound to find out. i have yet to hear of blood tests to check for carriers and i've delivered plenty animals wild and domestic to our national vet clinic and rabies facility (they do free checks for rabies on any dead animal that u cant claim the reason for death, even a goat) for rabies checks. fortunately non of the animals i delivered were rabid, they ahd other icky things.

i suspect the info got mangled in the translations...

most vets here (israel) are vaccinated and then do a yearly titre, so that they dont need to do a vaccine every year. the same can be done for dogs, just that in rabies prevalent countries with a poor compliance by citizens record (like thailand, and israel btw) vaccines are just given automatically every year. not sure what thai vets do.

and most dogs with rabies, u wouldnt know it. they dont look 'mad'. they just look miserable and ill, since a few other doggy diseases resemble the same types of neurological symptoms. 'foaming at the mouth ' is when they are practically dead as they have no control over swallowing at that point.

even as a vet tech i didnt do the vaccine, its not a work required vaccine as of yet, unbelievable as it seems so several vets i know just got the vaccine serum from europe and did it themselves. although travelers to rabies prevalent countries can request from the national health office for travellers a rabies vaccine. this is where i live. not sure how it works elsewhere, although it was suggested that people travelling in 'wilder' areas of thailand get vaccinated (from some israeli tour book translated i think from the english).

bina

israel

this subject comes up often, maybe someone should find out the real info, also costs of shots after bites, etc and the subject can be pinned in either health or in pets, here.... stuff like, prevalance from some official trusted source, manner of treatment in thailand, prevalance in areas for the past five years, cost of preventative and treatment injections, clinics (as i've heard that the clinics in thailand are very good at giving rabies shots to people that have been bitten, and that most clinics even up country are well equitped for this unlike other things. could be heresay so would like to know real info. perhaps sheryl, or gunnyd since they are in teh health profession, could find out....or bambina although she is busy in holland now.i forgot, maizefarmer's wife is a thai vet, maybe ill ask him to find out info for us. better then speculation on things like this.

bina