U.s. Income Tax

[vagabond48]

I use TaxAct software and can't efile because I am claiming a recovery rebate credit with a foreign address so I will need to mail my return.

If you mail your return from Thailand, do you mail it using Thai PO? Do you either register, certify or track the envelope?

[Old Man River]

I use TaxAct software and can't efile because I am claiming a recovery rebate credit with a foreign address so I will need to mail my return.

If you mail your return from Thailand, do you mail it using Thai PO? Do you either register, certify or track the envelope?

In year's past, I have sent it by DHL (and they track the envelope) and explained to them not to worry that I am sending to a PO Box (they normally don't do this). I use my home address.

A few weeks ago, I received a letter from the IRS with payment vouchers enclosed and where to send my payments (notice how they assume I have to pay - OK, I do). They also enclosed vouchers for quarterly estimated tax payments. I did not receive tax forms as it appears others have.

[Old Man River]

I pay my Thai income taxes and have forms to prove it.

I downloaded form 1040 but is says to attatch W2 which I do not have.

Is this the wrong form? On the internet is says to use schedule C but it is for businesses.

I am really lost here.

I'm not completely certain if this is the "correct" thing to do when working for a foreign employer who doesn't issue a W2, but I submitted Form 4852 along with my 1040 as a means of reporting the income for which I did not recieve a W2. That form is entitled "Substitute for Form W2 Wage and Tax Statement..." I did it that way because that seemed to be what the TurboTax software wanted me to do.

On the form 4852, this is interesting. For years I have put an addendum to my tax return explaining that my employer did not issue a W-2 and so far all has been OK. I have had my taxes prepared in Bangkok in the past and this is how they have done it so now that I do my own, I have copied what they did. Having said this, I have just reviewed this form and it does cover working for a foreign employer who does not issue W-2's.

Thanks for the heads up on this. I should have known. The US government has forms for everything.

Edited March 12, 2009 by Old Man River

[vagabond48]

I use TaxAct software and can't efile because I am claiming a recovery rebate credit with a foreign address so I will need to mail my return.

If you mail your return from Thailand, do you mail it using Thai PO? Do you either register, certify or track the envelope?

I forgot to mention that I would only mail the return without any payment since I pay the taxes I owe electronically via EFTPS.

[Old Man River]

I use TaxAct software and can't efile because I am claiming a recovery rebate credit with a foreign address so I will need to mail my return.

If you mail your return from Thailand, do you mail it using Thai PO? Do you either register, certify or track the envelope?

I forgot to mention that I would only mail the return without any payment since I pay the taxes I owe electronically via EFTPS.

I have never used EFTPS. Have you found any problems paying this way from Thailand?

Thanks.

[vagabond48]

I have never used EFTPS. Have you found any problems paying this way from Thailand?

Thanks.

Not at all, I am pleased to say.

[Langsuan Man]

Old Man River I signed up for it last year and was perfect to not only pay last years tax bill but to pay estimated taxes during this year. BUT, remember you MUST have a US Bank Account and US address to use it.

[flying]

Well, try www.turbotax.com on the web, choosing the cheapest package. For e-filing, you need an address in the U.S.

P.S.: I owed taxes and had several options. Ask for a pay plan, pay it with a credit card or print out a voucher to mail in a check.

I agree that is a good setup & quite complete. If you need the business version it is quite good at finding things for your consideration.

Funny on your PS.......I was just looking at that this year & laughing. You have to admit considering the financial mess & the credit bubble it is funny.

Would serve the Feds right if everyone paid with a CC this year then walked on it.

The Fed bailed all the crooks so they could bail the tax payers at least once eh?......Yes I'm joking & my check went in with my forms as I owed........Of course

[JimGant]

I forgot to mention that I would only mail the return without any payment since I pay the taxes I owe electronically via EFTPS.

Did you annotate somehow the Form 1040 to show payment was via EFTPS? Or did you just assume that, when they didn't find a check included, their data base would automatically search for an EFTPS payment?

[vagabond48]

I forgot to mention that I would only mail the return without any payment since I pay the taxes I owe electronically via EFTPS.

Did you annotate somehow the Form 1040 to show payment was via EFTPS? Or did you just assume that, when they didn't find a check included, their data base would automatically search for an EFTPS payment?

No. Last year I efiled my return and separately scheduled my payment via EFTPS. This year as I mentioned previously, I will be mailing my return within 2 weeks but will schedule my payment for April 15. EFTPS gives you the option of selecting the type of payment you are making (see below) and it appears the IRS determines if the money owed has been received by the April 15th due date.

The options shown here are those available for the Tax Form you selected above.

Estimated 1040ES

Payment with Return, Notice, or Installment Agreement

Pmt on an amended return 1040X

Extension

UnderReporter CP2000

Audit Adjustment

[Old Man River]

Old Man River I signed up for it last year and was perfect to not only pay last years tax bill but to pay estimated taxes during this year. BUT, remember you MUST have a US Bank Account and US address to use it.

Thanks. I have both.

[Old Man River]

For Americans filing in Thailand, what exchange rate are you using? I haven't filed yet, but it looks like I will be using 33.363 which comes from the average rate for Thai banks in 2008 (as per the BOT website).

Is anyone else using a different THB/USD exchange rate?

[OriginalPoster]

I pay my Thai income taxes and have forms to prove it.

I downloaded form 1040 but is says to attatch W2 which I do not have.

Is this the wrong form? On the internet is says to use schedule C but it is for businesses.

I am really lost here.

I'm not completely certain if this is the "correct" thing to do when working for a foreign employer who doesn't issue a W2, but I submitted Form 4852 along with my 1040 as a means of reporting the income for which I did not recieve a W2. That form is entitled "Substitute for Form W2 Wage and Tax Statement..." I did it that way because that seemed to be what the TurboTax software wanted me to do.

On the form 4852, this is interesting. For years I have put an addendum to my tax return explaining that my employer did not issue a W-2 and so far all has been OK. I have had my taxes prepared in Bangkok in the past and this is how they have done it so now that I do my own, I have copied what they did. Having said this, I have just reviewed this form and it does cover working for a foreign employer who does not issue W-2's.

Thanks for the heads up on this. I should have known. The US government has forms for everything.

I did encounter a glitch using Form 4852 though. What happened was that when I tried to e-File the return was rejected because I did not have a valid Employer's Identification Number (EIN) to match up with the employer who provided earning for which no W2 was issued (on account of it being a foreign employer). TurboTax won't let you eFile if you leave that field blank and the IRS eFile will immediately automatically reject the return if you just make up an EIN number. TurboTax now seems to be advising me to remedy the situation leaving the field blank and by printing the return out and mail it instead of e-Filing.

[SoCal]

I left the EIN blank on 4852 with Turbo Tax.

Then again, I mailed my filing, as I claimed the foreign income exception on 2555.

If you claim foreign residence, then you cannot e-file.

[OriginalPoster]

I left the EIN blank on 4852 with Turbo Tax.

Then again, I mailed my filing, as I claimed the foreign income exception on 2555.

If you claim foreign residence, then you cannot e-file.

Claiming a foreign residence isn't what blocks e-Filing via TurboTax, it's using a foreign mailing address that does.

I'm filing Form 2555 also but using a US mailing address and F2555 isn't blocking eFiling for me. The only thing that seems to be standing in the way of eFiling is the lack of an EIN number. If I leave the EIN blank or write something such as N/A in the box then TurboTax complains and says that you must print the return and mail it in instead of e-Filing. And if you make up a dummy EIN number that will fool TurboTax, the IRS just kicks the return back to you a couple of hours after you e-File it. Printing the return, as you say, does appear to allow you to leave the EIN blank without any alarms being raised. So that's what I'm going to do - print it and be done with it. Would have rather e-Filed but it's not an outrageous inconvenience for me to drop it in the mail.

Edited March 17, 2009 by OriginalPoster

[SoCal]

Don't you think it seems a bit suspect to claim foreign residence, and list a US mail address at the same time? I have a US address (parents), but thought it not wise to list it, and claim the foreign exemption at the same time, so I always put my overseas address. Just don't want to raise any unnecessary questions, or raise any unnecessary flags. Not saying it can't be done, but was my thinking on the subject.

Sorry to not know the specific answer, but would seem the answer would be to print it and mail.

I always get an error, in that I put my wife's SSN/ITIN as NRA (non-resident alien), per IRS intruction. Like I say though, I always print and mail, which TurboTax will allow you to do without correcting.

[SoCal]

PS- Aren't you supposed to mail your forms to Austin, TX if you are a US citizen living overseas, which you are claiming in filing 2555?

Would imagine that if you e-file it would go to your local service center in the US.

Really don't know the answers, just some of the questions that came to me in trying to keep my master happy.

[OriginalPoster]

Don't you think it seems a bit suspect to claim foreign residence, and list a US mail address at the same time? I have a US address (parents), but thought it not wise to list it, and claim the foreign exemption at the same time, so I always put my overseas address. Just don't want to raise any unnecessary questions, or raise any unnecessary flags. Not saying it can't be done, but was my thinking on the subject.

I think that it's legal and doubt that it's rare that someone does it. As far as I can tell, there is no IRS requirement that your mailing address be the same as your residential address nor any requirement that you be able cite a reason that they are different. I also don't think that where you receive your mail has any bearing on whether you are eligible for the Foreign Income Exclusion, I think that all that matters is that you either meet the 330 day physical presence test or the bone fide resident test. Possible liability for State income taxes are the only thing that I might worry about a little bit, but my stateside address is in a state that doesn't have a state income tax anyway.

About whether the US address would cause a foreign return to go somewhere other than Austin (as a domestic return would), it appears that doesn't cause a problem if you use TurboTax. TurboTax seems to be smart enough that it prints "Austin" on the address label if you have a Form 2555 containing a foreign address even in the case where you are using a domestic mailing address. I presume that they also route it properly for a electronic return, not just for printed returns.

Edited March 17, 2009 by OriginalPoster

[vagabond48]

Since I can't do an efile this year (a real pain), I finally got around to getting the overseas mailing address but upon reading the IRS website, I'm now a bit confused.

I am filing a 1040 using my foreign address in Thailand but I'm not filing 2555 or 2555EZ.

According to the IRS, I am supposed to mail my return to Austin Texas, "If your Client is...a U.S. citizen living in foreign country, files Form 2555 or 2555EZ." so where do I mail my return, Austin Texas or my last US address where I still vote?

[IMA_FARANG]

I think I will have to file form 4852

So far to file my income tax duties to the U.S. government I have to file the following forms on my measly wage.

1. 1040

2. 2555ez

3. W7

4. 4852

Are there any other forms that I might need to fill?

I don't think I have to file but I will just to be safe. e.g. Homeland security won't think I'm a terrorist, etc.

You might be able to use form 1040EZ instead of 1040. The EZ form is a streamlined version of the form; generally considered to be less confusing for use in cases where your tax situation is not complex.

I tried that but the form 2555ez doesn't match the lines of the 1040ez. It matches the original 1040. I could just file the 1040ez and not the 2555ez but not sure if I have to file the 2555ez.

On this particular point, I can help you. I just filed my Form 2555 and Form 1040. I do not know if there is a line on the 1040EZ, but on the form 1040 you enter on line 21 of the form 1040 the amount of income of your can exempt from your income as foriegn earned income. You enter the amount in parenthasis as in this example, (35,790.15). Then you subtract that from your total income to give your taxable income on line 22. On line 21 you enter the words Form 2555 in the space before you enter the amount. It ends up looking like this:

blah, blah, IRS form language......From form 2555....(amount)

That's why I use a form 1040 with my form 2555 or 255EZ. I'm not sure if there is line to enter the amount to enter the amount excluded from taxes on a 1040EZ or not, but I know the form 1040.

[dotcom]

This is 100 percent FALSE. The IRS doesn't even want you to file if you are not required to file. It costs taxpayers money for them to process the millions of returns from people who are not required to file. I am not arguing about whether it may be a good idea to file anyway, but lets not propagate false statements here. What is true is that living abroad does not excuse your obligation to file IF you are required to file under the rules, but the rules do most certainly not say that all US citizens must file by any stretch of the imagination.

It's Ok with me if you don't file for a few years.

Let us know how that works out for you. LOL.

[Jingthing]

It's Ok with me if you don't file for a few years.

Let us know how that works out for you. LOL.

Sorry you don't get the point, which was verified by an expert here. If you are not required to file based on the very clear instructions on the IRS website about who must file, the IRS DOES NOT WANT YOU TO FILE!

[VegasVic]

This is 100 percent FALSE. The IRS doesn't even want you to file if you are not required to file. It costs taxpayers money for them to process the millions of returns from people who are not required to file. I am not arguing about whether it may be a good idea to file anyway, but lets not propagate false statements here. What is true is that living abroad does not excuse your obligation to file IF you are required to file under the rules, but the rules do most certainly not say that all US citizens must file by any stretch of the imagination.

It's Ok with me if you don't file for a few years.

Let us know how that works out for you. LOL.

dotcom, Jingthing is quite correct! Only those who owe taxes or have had money withheld and are to recieve a refund, need to file a return. I belive the threshold for a married couple is around $19,000/year in income excluding any Social security. This threshold may rise quite a bit now that Obama is in the white house. I have seen articles where Obama was quoted saying that a retired couple with an income below $50,000/yr would not have to pay taxes I have a feeling that this $50,000 level was just campaign rhetoric, however it wouldn't surpeise me to see the standard deduction rise substantailly.

[OriginalPoster]

This is 100 percent FALSE. The IRS doesn't even want you to file if you are not required to file. It costs taxpayers money for them to process the millions of returns from people who are not required to file. I am not arguing about whether it may be a good idea to file anyway, but lets not propagate false statements here. What is true is that living abroad does not excuse your obligation to file IF you are required to file under the rules, but the rules do most certainly not say that all US citizens must file by any stretch of the imagination.

It's Ok with me if you don't file for a few years.

Let us know how that works out for you. LOL.

dotcom, Jingthing is quite correct! Only those who owe taxes or have had money withheld and are to recieve a refund, need to file a return. I belive the threshold for a married couple is around $19,000/year in income excluding any Social security. This threshold may rise quite a bit now that Obama is in the white house. I have seen articles where Obama was quoted saying that a retired couple with an income below $50,000/yr would not have to pay taxes I have a feeling that this $50,000 level was just campaign rhetoric, however it wouldn't surpeise me to see the standard deduction rise substantailly.

It's a less exclusive club than that. Even halfway through anti-socialist Bush's administration, 37% of Americans (excluding those who are claimed as dependents on someone else's taxes) paid no income taxes (see http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/di...t.cfm?Docid=283). With all the increased unemployment, bailouts, and promises to lessen the burden on people earning less than $250K, I'm sure that figure will soon reach 50% (if it hasn't already).

BTW, referring to the above webiste, the 37% arises by adding together the numbers in the column labelled "non-filers" plus those in the column labeled "non-taxable returns". Apparently, 24% of returns result in a total tax of zero or less and 13% don't file at all (presumably because they neither owe taxes nor are due a refund).

Edited March 22, 2009 by OriginalPoster

[PeaceBlondie]

I seriously doubt that little old 1040EZ has a line for the foreign earned income exclusion. Even the slightly more complex 1040A. The reason that forms 1040EZ and 2555EZ both end in EZ is because they are simplified.

[vagabond48]

Since I can't do an efile this year (a real pain), I finally got around to getting the overseas mailing address but upon reading the IRS website, I'm now a bit confused.

I am filing a 1040 using my foreign address in Thailand but I'm not filing 2555 or 2555EZ.

According to the IRS, I am supposed to mail my return to Austin Texas, "If your Client is...a U.S. citizen living in foreign country, files Form 2555 or 2555EZ." so where do I mail my return, Austin Texas or my last US address where I still vote?

Anyone with a similar situation?

[PeaceBlondie]

The IRS website is not clear. I think we send all our foreign returns to Austin, whether or not we have a form 2555. But I am not an expert on foreign filing.

[ChiangMaiThai]

If your return is that simple, you might want to do your return using TaxAct. You can do it either online or download their software (my preference). It is free if you do the federal return only. It also includes a free eFile.

Good luck

I'm trying to get this done, but Tax Act wants my W2 form from my employer. Since I am employed in Thailand, I of course don't have this. What now? Thanks!

[OriginalPoster]

If your return is that simple, you might want to do your return using TaxAct. You can do it either online or download their software (my preference). It is free if you do the federal return only. It also includes a free eFile.

Good luck

I'm trying to get this done, but Tax Act wants my W2 form from my employer. Since I am employed in Thailand, I of course don't have this. What now? Thanks!

Does Tax Act include Form 4852? That form is a replacement for form W2 than you can use if you are unable to get a W2 from your employer. Only downside is that (with TurboTax ar least) using that form prevents you from eFiling.

[ChiangMaiThai]

If your return is that simple, you might want to do your return using TaxAct. You can do it either online or download their software (my preference). It is free if you do the federal return only. It also includes a free eFile.

Good luck

I'm trying to get this done, but Tax Act wants my W2 form from my employer. Since I am employed in Thailand, I of course don't have this. What now? Thanks!

Does Tax Act include Form 4852? That form is a replacement for form W2 than you can use if you are unable to get a W2 from your employer. Only downside is that (with TurboTax ar least) using that form prevents you from eFiling.

I'm using the free version of Tax Act. It did let me enter a foreign address, but now it gets to the W2 page and doesn't mention Form 4852 at all. It just says:

You should receive a Form W-2 from each employer by February 1, 2009. Enter each Form W-2 separately. After you complete each Form W-2, the program will ask if you have additional copies of Form W-2 to enter and allow you the opportunity to add new wage information.

So I'm not sure why other posters recommended it. Does Turbo Tax allow you to choose Form 4852 instead of W2?